Quran vs quranists
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who says that, of course the book will contain Wisdom but is it the same wisdom that Allah talks about ? you're talking about one book, look at what God said " The book and the wisdom " are they the same thing ? if Yes how, if No how?
we can take wisdom from the book of Allah but about "the wisdom" ?
You've got the book and you've got the wisdom...use it 2378. You extract wisdom from situations/books/tv etc using something! You don't sit around just reciting do you?Are you Christian ? the word "Jeez" is derived from the phrase "Jesus Christ!" .
Shun the unbeliever Charlie, shun...Your post is your answer "Wisdom is, for example, a course of action that is tested by experience etc as being right in certain circumstances (in hindsight for example) that one can use in similar situations as a tried and tested method of success for any particular endeavour...so if I say Sun Tzu's Art of War has some wisdom in it"
Yes! My post is the answer, indeed it is. Are you answered enough yet?About the book of Sun Tzu art of war that contains wisdom as you claimed, can you tell us how did you take wisdom from it ?
lol, I just sit around reciting it...what do you think? Man, I must give the other posters credit for their patience. Kudos y'all.P.S Wisdom from God is the subject
P.S. Yes? And?
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You've got the book and you've got the wisdom...use it 2378. You extract wisdom from situations/books/tv etc using something! You don't sit around just reciting do you?
Shun the unbeliever Charlie, shun...
Yes! My post is the answer, indeed it is. Are you answered enough yet?
lol, I just sit around reciting it...what do you think? Man, I must give the other posters credit for their patience. Kudos y'all.P.S. Yes? And?
I get the impression from your reply that you are suggesting READING the Quran and using ones BRAIN and THINKING about it instead of marely RECITING it Now WHY would one READ it and use ones own BRAIN to THINK and REFLECT on its verses when we have schollars who have done that for us, so we dont have to THINK shudder
;D ;D peace
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wisdom is the same, I have posted what wisdom is, it doesnt change meaning where it is in a verse or whether it comes before, alongside or after any other word, it still means wisdom.
For the third time bring your proof . I did bring mine . That this wisdom that came after the book of Allah is not the same as the word wisdom alone in some verses.
And if you said that wisdom is wisdom ? where it is? as I see you have just Quran ? and God said The book and the wisdom ?
Please just don't talk without a proof from Quran . Eeveryone understood the thread and agreed about equality, the problem is in you not your understanding . Just bring a proof if you're truthful .
No, the ayateen in this verse and any other where it says ayateen means verses. If it says ayat it means verse.
No, verses just one of the Ayateena . Look at the verse, God mentioned Quran just after sayings verses , so why he will mention two things are the same ? "recite to you(the believers) our verses, teaching you the book ..." . did you see ?
No, there are many ayat (ayateen) in Quran. The word in this verse is ayateena (our verses).
look everything in the universe including you is an Aya . I'm Arab not you . Aya after all means proof, evidence....etc.
Any ayat recited to Muhammed is in Quran, if you think this is wrong please show where the other recited verses are.
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Thus do We explain the Ay?t (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) in detail, so that they may turn (unto the truth).
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And recite (O Muhammad م to them the story of him to whom We gave Our Ay?t (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), but he threw them away; so Shait?n (Satan) followed him up, and he became of those who went astray.
So look again God said recite the story . is the story is verse or Quran ?
In this verse the ayat is signs. There are many signs of God all around you.The prophet was to recite the verses of Quran, he cannot 'recite' the signs as they are all around us as God said they are.
what ? The prophet can also recite the signs justifying from Quran
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Does not man see that We have created him from Nutfah (mixed male and female sexual discharge - semen drops). Yet behold he (stands forth) as an open opponent.
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And he puts forth for Us a parable, and forgets his own creation. He says "Who will give life to these bones after they are rotten and have become dust?"
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Say (O Muhammad م "He will give life to them Who created them for the first time! And He is the All-Knower of every creation!"
what God said to the prophet ? he said to him to tell people about his signs .
If you're going to waste my time without proofs, please please let me speak with people with knowledge .
The Quran clearly says they are all around us and the teaching was teaching Quran. Now if you are trying to tell me that another sign or verse from Allah is in hadith please show the hadith which shows these other 'signs' of Allah. Where in hadith does it tell about the heavens and stars and biology and all the other 'signs' that are around us that Quran tells us about?
I don't want to answer this question for two reasons
1- you're avoiding the subject and you will hide the real thread as you always do .
2- All the hadith that I can give you is in Arabic, and as I know you said that it is rude to give me arabic .
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since when HIKMAH is translated or meant to be Sunnah/Legal Ways/Rules/Regulations/Law/Jurisprudence/Hadith
In 381, God tells us that all prophets were given the BOOK (alkitab) and WISDOM(alhikmah) so if hikmah means hadith/laws/regulations, all other prophets must have given out hadiths of their own too? do muslims accept this...no. Nor this means that these laws were the same as Muhammad.
According to the 1736-39
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearings, the eyesight, and the brain and you are responsible for using them. You shall not walk proudly on earth-you cannot bore through the earth, nor can you be as tall as the mountains. All bad behavior is condemned by your Lord. THIS IS SOME OF THE WISDOM inspired to you by your Lord. You shall not set up another god beside God, lest you end up in Gehena, blamed and defeated"
So hikmah is what God teaches and God teaches us in the Quran and not any other books.
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You've got the book and you've got the wisdom...use it 2378.
- It is He Who has created for you (the sense of) hearing (ears), eyes (sight), and hearts (understanding). Little thanks you give.
Is that about Quran ? if Yes how, if No how ?
You extract wisdom from situations/books/tv etc using something! You don't sit around just reciting do you?
Yes, sure. I didn't say the opposite. The question is simple in understanding is the book and wisdom are the same thing ? if yes how? if no why and how?
Let me remind you again that this kind of wisdom is from God .
Shun the unbeliever Charlie, shun...
So, the answer is yes but Charlie the unicorn is not going to paradise. Let me introduce Islam to you sister ?
Yes! My post is the answer, indeed it is. Are you answered enough yet?
Well, that's depend on you . Did you ?
lol, I just sit around reciting it...what do you think? Man, I must give the other posters credit for their patience. Kudos y'all.
You didn't answer my question (how did you take wisdom from it? )
P.S. Yes? And?
If Yes, know that your post is talking about wisdom of Charlie the unicorn .
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hikmah is not something tangible like a book. its a form of capacity that is given by God to every human and was specially given to prophets and messengers in abundance due to the critical nature of their tasks. how hard is this concept to understand. i dont get how ppl use this term to refer to books hadith written by some imam folks.
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since when HIKMAH is translated or meant to be Sunnah/Legal Ways/Rules/Regulations/Law/Jurisprudence/Hadith
In 381, God tells us that all prophets were given the BOOK (alkitab) and WISDOM(alhikmah) so if hikmah means hadith/laws/regulations, all other prophets must have given out hadiths of their own too? do muslims accept this...no. Nor this means that these laws were the same as Muhammad.Yes, this is my point. All the prophets were given the book and the wisdom(hadith/laws/regulations) and it changed from prophet to prophet, none of them has the same Wisdom .
ok let's see the verse God said "all prophets were given the book" is it the same book ?
According to the 1736-39
- And follow not (O man i.e., say not, or do not or witness not) that of which you have no knowledge.Verily! The hearing, and the sight, and the heart, of each of those one will be questioned (by All?h).
- And walk not on the earth with conceit and arrogance. Verily, you can neither rend nor penetrate the earth, nor can you attain a stature like the mountains in height.
- All the bad aspects of these (the above mentioned things) are hateful to your Lord.
first of all 36 talk about this kind of people ( one?s saying "I have seen," while in fact he has not seen, or "I have heard," while he has not heard. )
Second of all 37 talks about arrogance .
Third of all talks about that these things that have been mentioned before are hateful to our God.
- This is (part) of Al-Hikmah (wisdom, good manners and high character) which your Lord has revealed to you (O Muhammad م. And set not up with All?h any other il?h (god) lest you should be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected, (from All?h?s Mercy).
forth of all The things that have been mentioned before are part of Al-HIKMA and this HIKMA is not the same HIKMA that came after the book of Allah and God knows.
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself.
Is Hadith not verified ?
I have given you the hearings, the eyesight, and the brain and you are responsible for using them. You shall not walk proudly on earth-you cannot bore through the earth, nor can you be as tall as the mountains. All bad behavior is condemned by your Lord. THIS IS SOME OF THE WISDOM inspired to you by your Lord. You shall not set up another god beside God, lest you end up in Gehena, blamed and defeated"
See above .
So hikmah is what God teaches and God teaches us in the Quran and not any other books.
OK, Wisdom is what God teaches us how? are the wisdom of a normal man is the same wisdom that God gives to his prophet ? and why here in this verse 39 Wisdom comes alone ?
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hikmah is not something tangible like a book.
So, if it is not something tangible as you claimed why it comes after the book of Allah and before the Gospel and the Torah ? let me remind you that these things are tangible .
I know that there is another kind of wisdom that it is not tangible but it is not the one described in Quran after "the book" and God also told us about this kind of wisdom .
its a form of capacity that is given by God to every human and was specially given to prophets and messengers in abundance due to the critical nature of their tasks.
Do you think that prophets are phylosophers ?
how hard is this concept to understand. i dont get how ppl use this term to refer to books hadith written by some imam folks.
Yes, it is hard for you . As I see you're just talking in air .
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Leyna , please if you have anything about the subject enlighten us ?
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Is that about Quran ? if Yes how, if No how ?
I can tell through this exchange that you are myopic to the extent that you cannot see beyond a sentence to the next and how they relate.Yes, sure. I didn't say the opposite. The question is simple in understanding is the book and wisdom are the same thing ? if yes how? if no why and how?
Let me remind you again that this kind of wisdom is from God .
Let's say the book is only as good as the reader.So, the answer is yes but Charlie the unicorn is not going to paradise. Let me introduce Islam to you sister ?
I suppose you see the end of days too? The wise thing to do, is to introduce something that you would be well acquainted with.Well, that's depend on you . Did you ?
I find such games tedious.You didn't answer my question (how did you take wisdom from it? )
Here we go again, re-read my post please. Now, how do you extract wisdom? Do you take everything as is? Do you question, understand, analyse and reason?If Yes, know that your post is talking about wisdom of Charlie the unicorn .
No. How did you manage to last so long on forums with this style of illogical debate is my question. -
Leyna , please if you have anything about the subject enlighten us ?
Sorry, that reply was so surreal, it just cracked me up! peace
Actually, I think you raised a very interesting subject. But this thread -- like most others -- is already going down the drain with insults, game playing etc., and I am just not in the mood for any sort of exchange along the lines of "I am right and you are wrong".
nope
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I can tell through this exchange that you are myopic to the extent that you cannot see beyond a sentence to the next and how they relate.
Let's say the book is only as good as the reader.
I suppose you see the end of days too? The wise thing to do, is to introduce something that you would be well acquainted with.
I find such games tedious.
Here we go again, re-read my post please. Now, how do you extract wisdom? Do you take everything as is? Do you question, understand, analyse and reason?
No. How did you manage to last so long on forums with this style of illogical debate is my question.You didn't answer my questions, so what is the purpose of speaking with you ? as it seems that you want to hide the real subject of the thread which is "The book and The wisdom" .
If you're going to speak about that you're welcome, if you are not please leave behind you a beautiful trace and God guides to his path .
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Actually, I think you raised a very interesting subject. But this thread -- like most others -- is already going down the drain with insults, game playing etc., and I am just not in the mood for any sort of exchange along the lines of "I am right and you are wrong".
No, I'll not leave the thread going down as you think. If people are going to speak about the subject, fine . If not, I'll stop them with respect . I think you can realise this from my posts .
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So, if it is not something tangible as you claimed why it comes after the book of Allah and before the Gospel and the Torah ? let me remind you that these things are tangible .
I know that there is another kind of wisdom that it is not tangible but it is not the one described in Quran after "the book" and God also told us about this kind of wisdom .Are you seriously saying that because Allah said hikma in a verse after he said the word Quran and hikma before he said torah and gospel in a verse that you think this is something different and tangible? Nothing came after the book. I cannot believe you are bending over backwards debating one word and trying to claim it means something totally different to what it does, in order to lead people away from Quran and onto something else!
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Are you seriously saying that because Allah said hikma in a verse after he said the word Quran and hikma before he said torah and gospel in a verse that you think this is something different and tangible?
Yes, because I've cited in my research every word in Quran where God mentioned "HIKMA" and I found it too different from the wisdom that all we know . And it is because my language sorry I can differ between the meaning of HIKMA and this verse and the meaning of the other in another verse .
There are two kind of wisdom in Quran The one that mind can extract and the one that God gave and it changes from prophet to prophet .
or why would God said "all the prophets were given the book ? is it the same book ?
Nothing came after the book. I cannot believe you are bending over backwards debating one word and trying to claim it means something totally different to what it does, in order to lead people away from Quran and onto something else!
I can not believe that you can noot understand the proofs from Quran itself and you're claiming that you're a follower of Quran . I'm not leading anyone away from Quran, as you see I'm using Quran , do you ?
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You didn't answer my questions, so what is the purpose of speaking with you ? as it seems that you want to hide the real subject of the thread which is "The book and The wisdom" .
If you're going to speak about that you're welcome, if you are not please leave behind you a beautiful trace and God guides to his path .
Not this time gadget, I'm not letting you get away with your games. You've already acknowledged that I've answered in your previous post, then you turn around and play the offended victim crying I didn't? What the heck? Adding to God's words won't change what's already therein. That's all you're doing, and this is why we have a protected book so that people through the ages can separate the bs from the truth.
Hikmah mentioned in the quran (not your average lay person hikmah, no sir) is hadith (the real god given hikmah aka sayings of the prophet) that was made up/collected centuries after the revelation, that contradicts, adds, substracts and dances all over the original. Yeah.
So basically even though the quran says listen to the best hadith (itself), there is wisdom in it...that falls on deaf ears. When the quran says, here is a book and wisdom...ooOh, that must mean bukhari et al. Gosh, no wonder wisdom is so hard to come by.
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Yes, because I've cited in my research every word in Quran where God mentioned "HIKMA" and I found it too different from the wisdom that all we know . And it is because my language sorry I can differ between the meaning of HIKMA and this verse and the meaning of the other in another verse .
so you are claiming that when God says hikma AFTER He says Quran it means a different hikma to when He says it before He says Torah and Gospel? Please explain how you arrive at that conclusion because wisdom is wisdom.There are two kind of wisdom in Quran The one that mind can extract and the one that God gave and it changes from prophet to prophet .
God gave all prophets wisdom, they were wise. Wisdom means many things, if one is wise he understand many things, but wisdom is wisdom.or why would God said "all the prophets were given the book ? is it the same book ?
yes thats why he said he gave them all The Book ???I can not believe that you can noot understand the proofs from Quran itself and you're claiming that you're a follower of Quran . I'm not leading anyone away from Quran, as you see I'm using Quran , do you ?
I cannot believe you are trying to twist Quran and say it says something else by putting one word in front of another. You have been given proofs from Quran that the hadith to follow is Allahs hadith yet you ignore that. You have been given proofs from Quran that it is wrong to follow conjecture but here you are trying to convince us that is what we are to follow. I have had solid proof you have no knowledge of Quran Islam or hadith yet I still keep trying to make your blind eyes open along with others here.
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Not this time gadget, I'm not letting you get away with your games.
I don't need to play games when I use Quran(it is not for playing), as I see you can't answer the questions of my posts neither the answer of the thread.
You've already acknowledged that I've answered in your previous post, then you turn around and play the offended victim crying I didn't?
You didn't answer, I'm not lying. You're trying to avoid my answers, well let's rewrite them again
look at what God said " The book and the wisdom " are they the same thing ? if Yes how, if No how?
can you tell us how did you take wisdom from it (the book of God) and the book of Sun Tzu art of war?
Are you a christian ?
none of these questions have been answered neither the questions in the thread .....
What the heck? Adding to God's words won't change what's already therein. That's all you're doing, and this is why we have a protected book so that people through the ages can separate the bs from the truth.
I'm not asking the impossible agree with me why, and how / disgaree with me why, and how with proofs.
Hikmah mentioned in the quran (not your average lay person hikmah, no sir) is hadith (the real god given hikmah aka sayings of the prophet) that was made up/collected centuries after the revelation, that contradicts, adds, substracts and dances all over the original. Yeah.
HIKMA is mentioned in Quran and it is not the same as the HIKMA that came after the book of Allah, if you disagree with this please give me one single proof from Quran explaining every HIKMA and that all of them means wisdom , just wisdom. I can use Arabic and I'll make you lost .
So basically even though the quran says listen to the best hadith (itself), there is wisdom in it...that falls on deaf ears. When the quran says, here is a book and wisdom...ooOh, that must mean bukhari et al. Gosh, no wonder wisdom is so hard to come by.
Yes, I didn't deny that God's book contains wisdom, the answer is is it the same wisdom in all the verses ? especilay the one that mentioned in it the prophet .