what is Quran
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As far as the superiority and purity of the text itself on the whole goes towards establishing it being a divine revelation , of course it does , but then again wasnt it possible for any body through out the 1400 years to insert certain verses if not atleast words here and there and then all it takes is few words to completely change the meaning of a line or sentence(note iam not talking of producing a thing like or equal to Quran)
If someone would have inserted certain verses, or atleast words here and there, and then all it takes is few words to completely change the meaning of a line or sentence.... If this far fetched proposition did happen, then we have with us that thing today alongwith insertions. If someone could have done that then out of 6.4 billion people there should atleast be another one who could do the same thing. That is why Qur'aan says bring one similar from anywhere in the whole of world, and does not put restriction, not to bring it from Mecca or Madina or from Arab or from Bukhari etc. And when you say a hypothetical thing that someone may have inserted, that means authoring by human being to that extent. This challenge is the built in proof that the text we have today in our hands has nothing more than the original text of 1400 years back.
Dead on!
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Mazhar
This challenge is the built in proof that the text we have today in our hands has nothing more than the original text of 1400 years back
And if you are in doubt as to which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a sura like it, and call on your helper, besides Allah, if you are truthful. (Qur'an 223)
But if ye cannot - and of a surety ye cannot - then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith. -- Qur'an 2.24No writer would like to just copy another writer to reproduce the same literary work. Anybody can throw a similar challenge to produce another Gitanjali of Rabindranath Tagore, Hamlet of Shakespeare, Agnibina of Kazi Nazrul islam etc. to give a supernatural coating on those literary works, no matter how foolish that would sound.
I don't think so that by this challenge of Quran it is meant what your are trying to tell us.
There are lots and lots of work done on this, many ayats simialr and even whole Surahs have been written, and they were not pointed out by an average reader of Quran (which are the Majority) even arabs, the only way to check this is by memorization process, which is followed from heart to heart from centuries or recently by some codes.
You did not understand the actual challange of Quran. -
I don't think so that by this challenge of Quran it is meant what your are trying to tell us.
There are lots and lots of work done on this, many ayats simialr and even whole Surahs have been written, and they were not pointed out by an average reader of Quran (which are the Majority) even arabs,I could not understand this. Do you mean that many verses and even Surahs resembling Qur'aan were drafted by people. My poverty of knowledge, I am not aware of those if people have successfully produced such marvellous work. Would you like to share few such drafts/compilations.
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Mazhar
I could not understand this. Do you mean that many verses and even Surahs resembling Qur'aan were drafted by people. My poverty of knowledge, I am not aware of those if people have successfully produced such marvellous work. Would you like to share few such drafts/compilations
Have you ever read the book by Baha'u'llah named al-Kitab al-Aqdas?
If you want further drafts go to site surahlikeit.com
Now to decide how suceessfull they have been in their attempt is very very hard for a born muslim; Mazhar Sahib.
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I don't know about the Arabic but it sounds like a compilation of ahadeeth intermingled with the quran. In fact it is more an extension of sunni-ism than anything else and given that the Quran dissociates itself with ahadeeth and conjecture of man, this book cannot be said to have quranic standard unless the Sunni way was the right way in the first place.
I see that the author of the book has gotten lost by the parables of the quran, they are there to ensure consistency in the great reading. Regardless, the message sounds very nice although it does not appear divine in my eyes (keeping in mind I have given it a 5 minute read which isn't really sufficient to make a conclusion on it).
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peace Ali,
Hope some one can shed light and try to clarify to me that in what way the preservence of Quran is different from the Hadith.
From
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599274.msg226873#msg226873A commonly stated argument by those who wish to raise traditional heresay/ahadith to divine-status level is that its compilation was the same as The Quran.
Is that really true? Lets look at the simple and obvious facts...
The Quran = God's Word
Ahadith = man's wordThe Quran = 100% fact/truth/perfect
Ahadith = mix of truth and falsehood (hence weak and strong hadith)The Quran = recorded under the DIRECT supervision of prophet Muhammad
Ahadith = not recorded under the DIRECT supervision of prophet MuhammadThe Quran = written AND memorised word for word as soon as it was transmitted
Ahadith = no-one ever claimed to record and memorise ahadith word for word as soon as it was transmittedThe Quran = protected explicitly by God Himself as stated in The Quran
Ahadith = no such explicit protection statedThe Quran = no Muslim doubts its credibility
Ahadith = each sect has its own versions, weak & strong ones etcThe Quran = in-built verification mechanism, e.g. challenges others to find inconsistancy, bring a chapter like it etc.
Ahadith = no such in-built mechanism, full of inconsistancies etc. -
I'd like to add to Wakas's list if I may
Quran very aware of itself, meaning it talks about itself and tells the reader how to read it.
hadith not aware of itself, meaning not defined in its boundaries, doesnt know its collector or collections. -
OPF
Regardless, the message sounds very nice although it does not appear divine in my eyes
Yes brother that is my point! people who study Quran for the first time, who have not what so ever information about it, think the same way as you did, some are even harsher.
Mazhar I am sorry, there was a spelling mistake
the link is suralikeit.com and not surahlikeit.com
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Wakas
How did you arrive at this conclusion that Quran=God's word, and The Quran=100%exactly what i want to know! seems that its been already decided and agreed upon by all , that Quran is God's word! and the proof is the reading itself,wah?
what if i pick up a random chapter(surah) and add one line of classical arab poetry , some where in between , would some one be able to identify just by reading it that which words are added i.e not from God , provided he or she hasnt memorized all ? -
exactly what i want to know! seems that its been already decided and agreed upon by all , that Quran is God's word! and the proof is the reading itself,wah?
what if i pick up a random chapter(surah) and add one line of classical arab poetry , some where in between , would some one be able to identify just by reading it that which words are added i.e not from God , provided he or she hasnt memorized all ?It is not merely a specific component about the book, rather it is where it stands in reality. Now it's not difficult to write a book with no contradictions but somehow I sincerely doubt anyone on Earth could write a book about humanity's place in the universe and conveniently answer all the major questions in brief, elegant one liners and also put in mechanisms to prevent the original message from getting distorted. Any such book would end up being identical in message to the quran IMO.
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Wakas
How did you arrive at this conclusion that Quran=God's word, and The Quran=100%all you have to do is to find one contradiction in the quran and... BOOM... you are free! Quran is no longer binding on you!
to help you find contradictions of quran http//www.answering-islam.org/ ...to find more just google!
And once you find the contradictions but still you want to believe just try Lane Lexicon.... and more lexicons.... until you are satisfied... peace
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exactly what i want to know! seems that its been already decided and agreed upon by all , that Quran is God's word! and the proof is the reading itself,wah?
what if i pick up a random chapter(surah) and add one line of classical arab poetry , some where in between , would some one be able to identify just by reading it that which words are added i.e not from God , provided he or she hasnt memorized all ?There are people on Earth who believe that if anything is removed or added in the quran the internal code (code-19) of the book will be broken. So far they have found two verses of quran that were added later 9128-129. To find out about these people just google. thanks
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It is not merely a specific component about the book, rather it is where it stands in reality. Now it's not difficult to write a book with no contradictions but somehow I sincerely doubt anyone on Earth could write a book about humanity's place in the universe and conveniently answer all the major questions in brief, elegant one liners and also put in mechanisms to prevent the original message from getting distorted. Any such book would end up being identical in message to the quran IMO.
doesn't the book claim that "like of it" cannot be produced?
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There are people on Earth who believe that if anything is removed or added in the quran the internal code (code-19) of the book will be broken. So far they have found two verses of quran that were added later 9128-129. To find out about these people just google. thanks
now the discussion is taking some what interesting turn, rather than few empty claims .. i never knew dat .. only thing is been fed to me that rashad khalifa was a kaffir..
ali
