Some questions to which Quran only followers can't answr, basically they can't !
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In fact this is a good question. Silly quranists, Allah tells us
1779 And during a part of the night, pray Tahajjud beyond what is incumbent on you; maybe your Lord will raise you to a position of great glory.
Damn, what do I do? Maybe I should "correctly" follow my Shekih (SWT) like a good little Sunni/Shia/(insert sect here) boy and skip around and look to Bukhari for the answer instead of seeking it from the almighty. However I will use my silly quranist logic and look at... the next verse of the almighty's revalation
017.080 And say My Lord! make me to enter a goodly entering, and cause me to go forth a goodly going forth, and grant me from near Thee power to assist (me).
017.081 And say The truth has come and the falsehood has vanished; surely falsehood is a vanishing (thing).
So it is clear what I need to say and mean, because without meaning there is no power in the conditioning; how will one rise in spirit when one dedicates no spiritual energy to this? Hmm, how do I do wudu? Again, look in another verse.
It is noted that when hadeethists ask these questions, they distort the meaning twofold. For one, they say that these "wa qul" statements are on the part of the messenger when in reality they can be deduced contextually from the verses themselves. And then in order to make up for this contextual distortion, they have to create all manner of diversions and sayings (hadeeth) to create a new frail context for such verses.
And it is thus clear even from this thread that
Truth has come, and falsehood has vanished, the very nature of falsehood is vanishing.
All praise is to God, the lord of the universe.
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The questions like jawad_mugniya's arise due to understanding of Islam as a religion, not Deen.
In my understanding sets of rituals for salat meeting can be modified according to personal and societal needs.
ThanksPlease do not insinuate ridiculous things. Salat by its nature in the quran is something that cannot be modified by people's consensus, otherwise that implicitly holds Allah responsible for saying "follow the consensus of the people" in an unrighteous manner. Salat is something that is supposed to connect one to the source of creation 100% each and every time, otherwise Allah would not emphasise its cruciality throughout the quran. Something dictated by the people is not going to guarantee a 100% success rate. Rather, we look for what "salat" could be in light of the quran and then find out which interpretation of it logically gives the 100% success rate that Allah the all-powerful would ordain in the first place.
You are correct in the first line however. I love when hypocrites say that phrase, it's like assigning the exact same connotations of "religion" to those of the word "Deen" and so they continue on in their blindness.
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Salam to all,
Here are some questions from me (a person who is trying to follow Quran alone but it's very difficult due to various interpretations of the basic ritualistic practices - not only rituals but also some general questions about the way of life of a muslim based upon Quran only)You say it's difficult and then you tell us the 'quran aloner's do bla bla bla.
Maybe you find it difficult because even before approaching Quran, you say 'Islam must have ritualistic practices'
Who told you this? Where is your evidence for this? There is none. The ritual prayer can never be proven from the Quran.
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Salam to all,
Till now, nobody answers to my first multiple-question
My first multiple-question is After the death of Prophet Muhammad until the reign of Umar b. Abd al-Aziz during which the first ahadiths book was compiled by Ibn Shihab al-Zuhri according to Ibn Hajar, what type of Islam, the muslim were following ? There were no one (single) book of ahadiths, only Quran. So, how did muslim pray ? What amount of zakat did they give ? How did they do Hajj ? How did they do Fast ?
Still waiting for a proper answer... hmm
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The ritual prayer can never be proven from the Quran.
My dear brother, see what another Quran Alone Follower wrote just above.
See the reply number #4
Salam,
question on the number of salat is very easy, all the salat are named in Al Quran. Make your own conclusion!
For sadaqa, answer is in plain in the Quran. Make your research.Peace
If you are following only Quran then what a surprise ! Two Quranists saying two different things. And that is exactly my point and the main reason of this topic.
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Jawad, the question is not what PEOPLE think. The question is what YOU think. If you're concerned and you say there IS a ritual and we must know how to do them, then you must produce evidence. Don't worry what people think, what scholars say, what quran alone groups do etc. What do YOU do. Thats the topic at hand.
As for Umar Abd Aziz and Shabab Zuhri, how do I know these people existed? The first written account of seerah came 150 years after the Prophet (seerah of Ibn Ishaq) and even then, it was transmitted by his student Ibn Hisham.
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My dear brother, see what another Quran Alone Follower wrote just above.
See the reply number #4
If you are following only Quran then what a surprise ! Two Quranists saying two different things. And that is exactly my point and the main reason of this topic.
Salam,
You see only what you want to see.
When you will search for the truth you will get to the same conclusions as the majority (of thruth seekers). The exact and same truth.
Peace
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Salam to all,
Here are some questions from me (a person who is trying to follow Quran alone but it's very difficult due to various interpretations of the basic ritualistic practices - not only rituals but also some general questions about the way of life of a muslim based upon Quran only)
The different tendencies I discovered throughout my trip inside the Quran alone followers group
-There are those who support 2 types of Salat in the Quran (the physical act)
-There are those who support 3 types of Salat in the Quran (the physical act)
-There are those who support 4 types of Salat in the Quran (the physical act)
-There are those who support 5 types of Salat in the Quran (the physical act)
-There are those who even don't know how many rakaats (units) there are in a Salat (the physical act)
-There are those who pretend that one can do as many rakaat (units) as wanted there is no limit (only time limit)
-There are those who pretend that Hajj is only an event of gathering
-There are those who pretend that Hajj is a pagan form of ritual
-There are those who pretend that Sol-laa (Salat), Siyam, Hajj, Zakat are not what they shoud be because of some linguistics distorsions (For example, read Aidid Safar's Thesis)
-There are those who believe in a huge conspiracy from Persians or from Pagan Arabs to distord original Islam (Shabbir Ahmad, Aidid Safar and their likes)The above list is not exhaustive, we can add other odd sorts of Quran alone followers.
I sincerelly think that "Follow Quran Alone" is another sect like those we can encounter in Islam that came into existence because of the lack of rational reasoning in muslim cercles all around the world, because of the incompatibality between traditionnal Islam and secular world, shortly it's only a response to a precise situation of the chaotic muslim world who has some difficulty to emerge in this new century due to its dependency of religious scholars and their restricted thoughts based on book's about prohetic traditions. In other words, the existence of this sect can be understandable by the absence of any major critical study of the "Authentic Books of Traditions" (ie. 18th-19th centuries muslim scholars like Rashid Rida, Muhamad Abduh). This problem occures more in a restrictive Sunni milieu than a Shiite one because actually the Shiite scholarly environment give more oppotunities to critic their own doctrines on the basis of "continuous ijtihad" in the field of islamic law, islamic history etc.
My first multiple-question is After the death of Prophet Muhammad until the reign of Umar Abd al-Aziz during which the first ahadiths book was compiled by Ibn Shihab al-Zuhri according to Ibn Hajar, what type of Islam, the muslim were following ? There were no one book of ahadiths, only Quran. So, how did muslim pray ? What amount of zakat did they give ? How did they do Hajj ? How did they do Fast ?
I will ask other questions later.
Peace be upon you,
with all due Respect.May God guides us all into Paradise.
I'm grateful to Allah SWT for guiding me on The Straight Path.To answer your questions
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You shouldn't be concerned about how many times a person prays or not, rather search in The Quran how many times did Allah SWT mention that we must pray and then we can engage in a serious and healthy debate.
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Regarding how many units are there in a prayer, well, one can read this
7320 Your Lord knows that you rise a little less than two thirds of the night, and half of it, and one third of it; and a group of those who are with you. And God measures the night and the day. He knows that you will not be able to keep-up, so He pardons you. So read what is made easy of the Qur'an. He knows that there will be sick among you, and others that go forth in the land seeking from the bounty of God, and others who are fighting in the cause of God, so read what you can of it. And hold the contact prayer and contribute towards purification and lend God a loan of righteousness. And whatever you put forth yourselves, you will find it with God, for it is better and a greater reward. And seek the forgiveness of God, for God is Forgiving, Merciful.
I hope it is visible from the verse i copied from The Quran, what i'm trying to tell you.
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Nowhere in The Quran did i read that one will be punished or rewarded according to how long or short one prayed. The prayer must be sincere, out of your heart and not to show off.
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I don't like answering with a question to a question but i must in this case, regarding hajj. Where in The Quran does God speak of Hajj? Look for it yourself, once you discover it, think about it and get back to me, God willing. Let me know what you discovered.
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How to pray, how much to give, when to give, to whom to give, how long to fast, when to start the fast, when to end it, how to stand in the prayer, how to end the prayer, what to say in the prayer, what voice to use in the prayer, how many wives to marry, how to perform ablution, all this and much more can be found in The Quran, that is if one believes in the authenticity of 6114.
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You will not find in The Quran how to make pasta, which shue to put on first, from which side of the car to enter first, with which leg (UK, Europe, USA, Asia, Japan, Australia...), how many meals to have a day, how many children to have, what names to give them, where and how far to relocate and similar but that is because of this
1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and heart, all these you are responsible for.
See the verse? 1736? remember it. Make use of the blessings and gifts God gave you.
I would also like you to read these, if you really want to
7185,
316,
3923,
456,
5234,
6844,
7750.The verse that i would LOVE for you to read and PONDER over it, is this
6836 What is wrong with you, how do you judge?
6837 Or do you have a book which you study?
6838 In it, you can find what you wish?Please, don't tell me that you have some other book that you study, like "authentic narrations of mr., Bukhary and/Muslim". Muslim, ....hmm, nice name, very convenient.
6112 And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet mankind and Jinn devils to inspire each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.
6113 That is so the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter will listen to it, and they will accept it, and they will take of it what they will.
6114 Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed? Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with the truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
6115 And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.I would say the last verse here speaks volumes without me enhancing anything, wouldn't you say?
God bless you all and may God guide us all to Paradise.
Be grateful to Allah SWT for all the good things and all the countless Blessings He has given us.
Glory be to our Lord, The Lord of the worlds.
Peace be upon you.
6117 Your Lord is fully aware of who strays from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones. -
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All I see is a quick rushing towards Quranic verses
That's damn well true, you sure as hell didn't see the quranic verses themselves.
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As I predicted, no one really answered to my question. All I see is a quick rushing towards Quranic verses while my first question was very simple. I am not vilifying you but only as a notice.
My second multiple-question is What kind of muslim am I, if I even don't know how the one who conveyed the message of Allah did his prayer, his hajj, his fast or gave zakat while I am already acquainted by the fact that the only source of emulation is the same person (ie. Muhammad) ? If somebody denies this obvious reality then please explain me in full details why those around Muhammad, when he was alive, followed his every steps, in other words they imitated him so that they couldn't go astray and with the aim of being in complete unity with his message which was the revealed verses, whereas today when we see the Movement of Quran Alone, the sole thing that we perceive is discrepencies (worse than what we can find in Sunnism and Shiism particularly when it comes to rituals) amongst it followers (ie. see my above non exhaustive list) ?
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Jawad, this is your answer?
I repeat my question to you how do you know this report is true? Remember the first historical account was written over 150 years after the Prophet.
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As I predicted, no one really answered to my question. All I see is a quick rushing towards Quranic verses while my first question was very simple. I am not vilifying you but only as a notice.
I answered your question but it appears you lack the good manners to even acknowledge my answer, let alone respond.
My second multiple-question is What kind of muslim am I, if I even don't know how the one who conveyed the message of Allah did his prayer, his hajj, his fast or gave zakat while I am already acquainted by the fact that the only source of emulation is the same person (ie. Muhammad) ? If somebody denies this obvious reality then please explain me in full details why those around Muhammad, when he was alive, followed his every steps, in other words they imitated him so that they couldn't go astray and with the aim of being in complete unity with his message which was the revealed verses, whereas today when we see the Movement of Quran Alone, the sole thing that we perceive is discrepencies (worse than what we can find in Sunnism and Shiism particularly when it comes to rituals) amongst it followers (ie. see my above non exhaustive list) ?
Why not try this question How do you know HOW he did his prayer is vital? Does the Quran tell you 'unless you do your prayer a certain way, it wont be accepted' ?
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Jawad, this is your answer?
I repeat my question to you how do you know this report is true? Remember the first historical account was written over 150 years after the Prophet.
There is no need to give you an answer because my question is also effective if I had asked it in this manner
My first multiple-question is After the death of Prophet Muhammad until the reign of the abbassids, during which first ahadiths books were compiled by al-Bukhari,Muslim, Abi Dawud (and others), what type of Islam, the muslim were following ? There were no one book of ahadiths, only Quran. So, how did muslim pray ? What amount of zakat did they give ? How did they do Hajj ? How did they do Fast ?
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Does the Quran tell you 'unless you do your prayer a certain way, it wont be accepted' ?
From this question I assume that you are from those people who think that Muhammad is not and was not a source of emulation for muslim people. So, I also assume that there is no benefit for Allah of having a mediator to convey His message. He could have used telepathy. I think you have no answers to my question and you are turning around, so I humbly suggest you to not try to divert the main topic by asking irrelevant questions.
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There is no need to give you an answer because my question is also effective if I had asked it in this manner
So basically, your question is 'what were the Muslims doing till the Abbasids?'. My counter question is how would you know either way? There's a gap of over a thousand years between us and the Abbasids. I got another counter question to which you'll probably answer with '.....'
If hadith were important to Islam, why were they not collected from the beginning. If what the Prophet did was so vital for Islam, why is it Malik says u drop the hands during the qiyam of salah and all other madhabib say you 'tie' your hands?
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From this question I assume that you are from those people who think that Muhammad is not and was not a source of emulation for muslim people. So, I also assume that there is no benefit for Allah of having a mediator to convey His message. He could have used telepathy. I think you have no answers to my question and you are turning around, so I humbly suggest you to not try to divert the main topic by asking irrelevant questions.
How is it an irrelevant questiion? Do you believe in the Quran or not? If you do, then the contents of the Quran MATTER. And lets face it, the Quran has absolutely no notion of 'how' one prays. It doesn't care about it so why are you caring about it. You may as well be asking me if the Quran says eating baked beans are ok or not.
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And lets face it, the Quran has absolutely no notion of 'how' one prays. It doesn't care about it so why are you caring about it.
From this answer I assume that you are from those people who think that Muhammad is not and was not a source of emulation for muslim people. So, I also assume that there is no benefit for Allah of having a mediator to convey His message.
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Well sir, you assumed wrong. I believe Muhammad Rasulullah was a source of emulation. However, HOW we find out about Muhammad is where we dispute. For you, it's not just the Quran whereas for me it is.