what sect
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welcome to the forum, rraza.
I was fortunate in that I was not intimately involved in a sect. My family was nominally Shia but did not really practice. My extended family in Iran practiced a bit more but my immediate family here in the U.S. just believed in God and tried to do good. As you typically can't completely divorce yourself from your culture, my immediate family still mentioned Shi'i concepts here and there in passing so I was familiar with it, but they did not practice. In fact, my parents did not force any belief on me at all. I thank them to this day for that. They always told me to read and study for my own, to find my own path.
So that's what I did. Read the quran for myself at a pretty early age. Not having the requisite background, many of the secondary concepts flew over my head, but the basics became ingrained in me. It became quite obvious to me that Shi'i Islam was not the way. Making friends in high school who were Sunni exposed me quite a bit to that 'side' of Islam. By early college, I suppose I 'became' Sunni; it was the next step in my growth. I thought if not Shi'i, must go Sunni. But I never stopped studying and questioning. It wasn't long before my studying/questioning made me realize that Sunni Islam was clearly at odds with the quran as well. I realized the whole idea of Shi'i/Sunni was a false dichotomy, that there weren't only two choices. My intuition always told me to measure these various concepts against the quran, to have the quran be my gauge against which other beliefs stood or fell. That intuition let me to shed the Shi'i perspective, and later shed the Sunni perspective.
Realized what I subconsciously knew all along why even bother measuring these beliefs against the quran, why not cut out the middle man, and just use the quran for its own sake? Haven't turned back since.
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welcome to the forum, rraza.
I was fortunate in that I was not intimately involved in a sect. My family was nominally Shia but did not really practice. My extended family in Iran practiced a bit more but my immediate family here in the U.S. just believed in God and tried to do good. As you typically can't completely divorce yourself from your culture, my immediate family still mentioned Shi'i concepts here and there in passing so I was familiar with it, but they did not practice. In fact, my parents did not force any belief on me at all. I thank them to this day for that. They always told me to read and study for my own, to find my own path.
So that's what I did. Read the quran for myself at a pretty early age. Not having the requisite background, many of the secondary concepts flew over my head, but the basics became ingrained in me. It became quite obvious to me that Shi'i Islam was not the way. Making friends in high school who were Sunni exposed me quite a bit to that 'side' of Islam. By early college, I suppose I 'became' Sunni; it was the next step in my growth. I thought if not Shi'i, must go Sunni. But I never stopped studying and questioning. It wasn't long before my studying/questioning made me realize that Sunni Islam was clearly at odds with the quran as well. I realized the whole idea of Shi'i/Sunni was a false dichotomy, that there weren't only two choices. My intuition always told me to measure these various concepts against the quran, to have the quran be my gauge against which other beliefs stood or fell. That intuition let me to shed the Shi'i perspective, and later shed the Sunni perspective.
Realized what I subconsciously knew all along why even bother measuring these beliefs against the quran, why not cut out the middle man, and just use the quran for its own sake? Haven't turned back since.
Same thing with me, very fortunate of having parents who did not push anything on me.
Funny little story, I'm taking a course in university called "clash of cultures" its taught by Professor Barrie Wilson
You can visit his website here, www.barriewilson.com
And my mom today when questioning me about taking this course said "You know, as long as you are honest and self-regulatory you are fine, religion is an outdated concept"
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thanx eveyrbody for the warm welcome...well i have been coming on this site for about a year and a half now...luckily i am at university outside my home country so living alone has really allowed me to spread my wings and get to know myself a lot more without external influences... the other day i even tol dmy mother wi ud never marry into a shia family, so she shudnt expect me to...she said as long as ur happy and the guys froma muslim background she dusnt care...wish i cud say the same for my dad...but thats another story..
personally i find myself in a bit of a conflict....im westernised i guess..but pray regularly, read the quran and pray everyday for guidance.. i just dont seem to fall into a category... not a traditional "muslim"...yet very staunch abt things God tells us to do like pray, fast ,be gud to ppl.actualy try to go out of my way to do that..eveb though i believe alcohol isnt FORBIDDEN in islam..i still wud never try it and definitely never have it in my home..i have guy friends and i hang out with them,b ut never let anyone cross limits..
i know im rambling but just curious whether anyone else is in a similiar position..i dont identifymyself with most muslims i meet..they are too ignorant of the quran and too hotheaded about inconsequential things like not letting women go to the mosque..or wishing to kill ppl who defame prophet muhammad etc.
im starting to think whether ill ever meet someone who knows the priorities in islam, and is kind and gentle and has a personality like the TRUE sunnah of the prophet pbuh. muslims are either too into hadith and all that stuff (the ones who claim to be religious) or just not into anything..dont pray, drink gamble have casual sex....think im having trouble relating to ppl here...i come from pakistan..now in australia..and ironically in both places i have had the same problem. pakistan was actually even worse coz ppl push their beliefs onothers. -
welcome to the forum, rraza.
I was fortunate in that I was not intimately involved in a sect. My family was nominally Shia but did not really practice. My extended family in Iran practiced a bit more but my immediate family here in the U.S. just believed in God and tried to do good. As you typically can't completely divorce yourself from your culture, my immediate family still mentioned Shi'i concepts here and there in passing so I was familiar with it, but they did not practice. In fact, my parents did not force any belief on me at all. I thank them to this day for that. They always told me to read and study for my own, to find my own path.
So that's what I did. Read the quran for myself at a pretty early age. Not having the requisite background, many of the secondary concepts flew over my head, but the basics became ingrained in me. It became quite obvious to me that Shi'i Islam was not the way. Making friends in high school who were Sunni exposed me quite a bit to that 'side' of Islam. By early college, I suppose I 'became' Sunni; it was the next step in my growth. I thought if not Shi'i, must go Sunni. But I never stopped studying and questioning. It wasn't long before my studying/questioning made me realize that Sunni Islam was clearly at odds with the quran as well. I realized the whole idea of Shi'i/Sunni was a false dichotomy, that there weren't only two choices. My intuition always told me to measure these various concepts against the quran, to have the quran be my gauge against which other beliefs stood or fell. That intuition let me to shed the Shi'i perspective, and later shed the Sunni perspective.
Realized what I subconsciously knew all along why even bother measuring these beliefs against the quran, why not cut out the middle man, and just use the quran for its own sake? Haven't turned back since.
ur lucky! i struggled hard..and the worst thing i guess is when u cant really look upto ur parents to guide u spiritually and realise their not as perfect and knowing as you thought they were hmm
but i know how to look at things from both sides i guess and thats a strength for me.. even now im always searching for the truth...and hopefully that will always be the case..
its refreshing talking to someone from a shia background who believes in God alone have u been to iran much? -
I never belonged to any sect. When I started researching Islam many years ago, the issue of hadith seemed dodgy to me pretty much from the start. And the more I learned about it, the less credible it appeared to me. About five or six years ago I came across this site and did a lot of reading; it really helped me to see that there were people out there with similar thoughts, who used a logic-based and textual approach rather than relying on scholars, their interpretations, and narrations that contradicted the Qur'an.
peace
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ur lucky! i struggled hard..and the worst thing i guess is when u cant really look upto ur parents to guide u spiritually and realise their not as perfect and knowing as you thought they were hmm
but i know how to look at things from both sides i guess and thats a strength for me.. even now im always searching for the truth...and hopefully that will always be the case..
its refreshing talking to someone from a shia background who believes in God alone have u been to iran much?Yeah, even now I don't consider myself to have "found" the truth. I firmly believe truth is a process, not an achievement. I look back on what my beliefs were at the age of 18, 21, 25, etc. and they were never static. There's a clear evolution. Now, at 28, I'm still constantly learning and growing. Even as recently as a few months ago, my views on certain things changed dramatically.
I think there are a few ex-Shias on our site, rraza, so you should feel at home. peace
I've been to Iran twice (at the age of 10 and 24); I was born in the States. Both times I went there were bittersweet experiences. Glad to see my family and see a lot of the history, but sad at the state of affairs there.
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welcome
I am a God-alone Christian. Thinking back, I think I always have been. Even as a child I had the belief that Jesus was more a prophet than anything else, I have always questioned the concept of "Son on God", "God incarnate" etc.
I was a God alone Christian too Rev. John, thanks to my mum really. I wasnt raised to believe Jesus was God, and the son if God only in the sense we are all children of God, so when I read Quran it made sense to me.
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I was an atheist my whole life until about 7 months ago. I started researching code 19 and it let me to believe that the Quran was written by God eventually. I had Rashad's first version of his translation, so I didn't buy into the whole him being a messenger bit at first.. But eventually I started to believe he was a messenger. I guess even before believing he was a messenger, I could have been considered "sectarian" because I believed in HIS tafsir and hadith which can be severely distorted and / or false. Really that's not different than believing in the Sunni hadith / tafsir.
Alhamdulillah I found the errors in my ways and realized that Rashad was a charlatan and code 19 was a hoax. I still thought the Quran is legitimate scripture though. And I thought about becoming Sunni even for a few days (but never studied any hadith or anything), but again God guided me to the right path...
Now all I believe in is the Quran. I like to hear different viewpoints in the tafsir, but I don't trust anyone to be the truth in all cases.. I learned my mistake by trusting Rashad.
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Yeah, even now I don't consider myself to have "found" the truth. I firmly believe truth is a process, not an achievement. I look back on what my beliefs were at the age of 18, 21, 25, etc. and they were never static. There's a clear evolution. Now, at 28, I'm still constantly learning and growing. Even as recently as a few months ago, my views on certain things changed dramatically.
I think there are a few ex-Shias on our site, rraza, so you should feel at home. peace
I've been to Iran twice (at the age of 10 and 24); I was born in the States. Both times I went there were bittersweet experiences. Glad to see my family and see a lot of the history, but sad at the state of affairs there.
same here.whenevr i think about pakistan, i just feel sad coz ppl in charge are ruining evrything.recently there was a complete facebuk/wikipedia/youtube ban throughout the country in a protest against offensive facebook pages against prophet muhammad...im one of the very few ppl who believe thats absolutely the wrong way to retaliate.but evrybody back home was for the ban brickwall
im 19 and have been struggling to understand the "right" path since probably i was 16..so im lucky to be one of those ppl who are spiritually "awake" i guess.
and ur right learning never stops, and never shud. sometimes when i look around i think im weird coz i do all this thinking abt religion and God, whereas most of the ppl around me are busy drinking or doing drugs,or just simply too much into their pleasures..but it feels good to come on this forum and know there are more ppl in the same boat.im lucky i stumbled onto this site sun
iv been to tehran though and i likes iran..much better than pakistan..women are more free and safe there i think..my mum and dad still want to go there for visiting the shrines though..they have been for pilgrimage to Kaaba twice but they still feel that pilgrimage to the shrines is missing from their lives nope -
I firmly believe truth is a process, not an achievement.
Tell me about it, ever tried getting the truth out of someone lying? Even after a long drawn out and very painful process, you're never really sure and by that time you don't feel like celebrating either or feel you've achieved much. I am bitter and have scarsWelcome to the OP.
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Tell me about it, ever tried getting the truth out of someone lying? Even after a long drawn out and very painful process, you're never really sure and by that time you don't feel like celebrating either or feel you've achieved much. I am bitter and have scars P
Welcome to the OP.
Not going to touch that SC, but I'll let you regale us with some of your bitter experiences tomorrow during the quranconnection chat. You coming online? I haven't been on in a few weeks.
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I was a God alone Christian too Rev. John, thanks to my mum really. I wasnt raised to believe Jesus was God, and the son if God only in the sense we are all children of God, so when I read Quran it made sense to me.
In my church we use both the Bible and the Quran. If you leave out all the peripherals, ie trinity, hadiths, etc the two religions are very close.
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Not going to touch that SC, but I'll let you regale us with some of your bitter experiences tomorrow during the quranconnection chat. You coming online? I haven't been on in a few weeks.
Neither have I, might drop by if the room doesn't insist on kicking me constantly, last time it was every few seconds so kinda impossible.
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In my church we use both the Bible and the Quran. If you leave out all the peripherals, ie trinity, hadiths, etc the two religions are very close.
Assalaamu Alaikum Dear Brother Reverend John,
I did breeze through your website. I do have to admit that you are indeed the living example of those in the verses 262 and 569 in the Qur?aan.
262, Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
569, Indeed, those who have believed and those who were Jews or Sabeans or Christians - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
I also do consider you as a TRUE MUSLIM. You are my brother in faith. May GOD bless you, and guides us all in His light and continuously increases us our knowledge and guidance. GOD WILLING.
With Salaam,
Khalil -
Assalaamu Alaikum Dear Brother Reverend John,
I did breeze through your website. I do have to admit that you are indeed the living example of those in the verses 262 and 569 in the Qur?aan.
262, Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
569, Indeed, those who have believed and those who were Jews or Sabeans or Christians - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
I also do consider you as a TRUE MUSLIM. You are my brother in faith. May GOD bless you, and guides us all in His light and continuously increases us our knowledge and guidance. GOD WILLING.
With Salaam,
KhalilThank you. You honour me by calling me a true Muslim. I believe that the true Christians are the God-alone Christians and the True Muslims are God-alone Muslims, both brothers in faith with each other
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we cannot forget the Jews in those passages, there are polite, honest, righteous, respectful, decent, hardworking, God fearing and charitable Jews who are our brothers and sisters in faith as well.
I have seen people saying things like "they (Nazis) should have killed all of them"
This was coming from a muslim. Please do not quote this and ask me well how do you know he is a muslim etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. or something of that ilk, he has informed me he has read the Qu'ran in its entirety, and although he refuses to divulge his position on hadith I have seen him speaking negatively about hadith, at first he used to say things like all hadith is bullshit, then he brought it down to at least 75 percent of hadith is bullshit, and then one day when I was talking about Surah 80 and asking how the Prophet pbuh could be perfect (according to hadith) in light of this Surah he simply replied with hadith = fabrication.
I understand his frustration/anger and where he is coming from, but I think this is too much.
This kind of speech gets people no where, and when you say these kinds of things the discourse is poisoned. No matter how honest and just the things you speak of may be, when you mix them with these kind of things a sizable percentage of people's hearts become hardened to what you are saying, and they will not listen to you because they only see your insults/cruel remarks and nothing else.
Some of us have the wisdom of practicing tolerance and patience to disregard insults and bitter/vitriolic accusations and can respond kindly and only with a spirit of truth and justice, but a sizable percentage of people will not do this. (from my experience anyway)
If anything I have noticed with my debates with strongly pro Israel Jews that some of them simply do not wish to speak with me any further when they realize I am not interested in getting into a heated/viral/back and forth argument filled with foul and cruel insults/statements, and they will in fact pursue discourse with opponents who will give them the insults that feed/buttress their sense of self righteousness...
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we cannot forget the Jews in those passages, there are polite, honest, righteous, respectful, decent, hardworking, God fearing and charitable Jews who are our brothers and sisters in faith as well.
I have seen people saying things like "they (Nazis) should have killed all of them"
This was coming from a muslim. Please do not quote this and ask me well how do you know he is a muslim etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. or something of that ilk, he has informed me he has read the Qu'ran in its entirety, and although he refuses to divulge his position on hadith I have seen him speaking negatively about hadith, at first he used to say things like all hadith is bullshit, then he brought it down to at least 75 percent of hadith is bullshit, and then one day when I was talking about Surah 80 and asking how the Prophet pbuh could be perfect (according to hadith) in light of this Surah he simply replied with hadith = fabrication.
I understand his frustration/anger and where he is coming from, but I think this is too much.
This kind of speech gets people no where, and when you say these kinds of things the discourse is poisoned. No matter how honest and just the things you speak of may be, when you mix them with these kind of things a sizable percentage of people's hearts become hardened to what you are saying, and they will not listen to you because they only see your insults/cruel remarks and nothing else.
Some of us have the wisdom of practicing tolerance and patience to disregard insults and bitter/vitriolic accusations and can respond kindly and only with a spirit of truth and justice, but a sizable percentage of people will not do this. (from my experience anyway)
If anything I have noticed with my debates with strongly pro Israel Jews that some of them simply do not wish to speak with me any further when they realize I am not interested in getting into a heated/viral/back and forth argument filled with foul and cruel insults/statements, and they will in fact pursue discourse with opponents who will give them the insults that feed/buttress their sense of self righteousness...
AK! Sober up and see the 1st directive in verse 443. laugh
Peace,
Khalil