I and We
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The bolded part makes sense to me. I did not really take the time read what you said, I apologize.
So going with the first paragraph of your first reply, would it be correct to deduct that what you are saying is We is not exclusively Allah, but Allah and the rest of the universe? Since we are all one kind of thing? I'm sorry I hope you are not getting impatient with me but I'm trying to understand this, sorry
And according to your understanding, is that why God uses I in the verses provided which detail His conversation with Moses? In other words He is using I because in this instance He is saying I am The God of the Universe, there is no other God? Or no God but me? And thus He uses I for clarification in this situation of His singularity instead of We?
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And according to your understanding, is that why God uses I in the verses provided which detail His conversation with Moses? In other words He is using I because in this instance He is saying I am The God of the Universe, there is no other God? Or no God but me? And thus He uses I for clarification in this situation of His singularity instead of We?
This is my understanding currently for why I is used in the above verses instead of We. Does anyone else have any thoughts, commentary etc. about my understanding for the usage of I in these instances instead of We?
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Pay close attention to my wording. In fact, if you read a post from me at any time, pay VERY close attention to my wording. I don't use imprecise words when I can. Unfortunately precise words can only be understood by precise minds. Most of my posts could be cut short from pages to 3 sentences (e.g. , , in this post) if a certain group of people were inclined by ALLAH to think instead of farting through their mouths.
The correct understanding is this
We = The seen
ALLAH = The seen AND the unseen
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_coneAt each moment in time, "We" gets bigger. "We" always submits to ALLAH and it can do nothing else; this is the divine balance. "We" is relative to the observer; your "We" is not my "We" and it will not be until the day when "We" becomes "I".
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This is my understanding currently for why I is used in the above verses instead of We. Does anyone else have any thoughts, commentary etc. about my understanding for the usage of I in these instances instead of We?
Not really. Linguistic interpretation is the hardest way I found to interpret the Koran. Thats why I simply focus on context rather than linguistic analysis. Anyways I am not a technocrat.
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057.001
YUSUFALI Whatever is in the heavens and on earth,- let it declare the Praises and Glory of Allah for He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
057.002
YUSUFALI To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth It is He Who gives Life and Death; and He has Power over all things.
057.003
YUSUFALI He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent and He has full knowledge of all things.
057.004
YUSUFALI He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.
057.005
YUSUFALI To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all affairs are referred back to Allah. 057.006
YUSUFALI He merges Night into Day, and He merges Day into Night; and He has full knowledge of the secrets of (all) hearts.Going by those verses and just about all through Quran Allah refers to Himself in the third person which would lead many to think that Muhammed authored Quran and not Allah Himself.
'We' is also Allah referring to Himself and is like the Royal 'we'. English people would prbably see this more, its like 'We are not ammused' that Queen Victoria was famous for saying.
Royal people use We because they believe that The God is on their side, that they are The God's representative. Research "ruling by divine right."
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http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14531.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14531.msg165822#msg165822As the second link shows, the person being quoted is saying that it refers to We because it refers to God and the Holy Spirit Jibreel.
A better explanation than your explanation, that God is referring to Himself only with We.
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"I" is the Creator,
i think "We" is the God in the created system, so God is part or whole of the creations.
So whenever HE talks about the events in this world thats controlled by Him.. he uses "We" and whenever He talks about Creation he talks about "I".
Your Lord said to the angels, "I am creating a human being from aged mud, like the potter's clay.
"Once I perfect him, and blow into him from My spirit, you shall fall prostrate before him."
Inform My servants that I am the Forgiver, Most Merciful.i may be wrong. God knows the best.
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peace
What would be your answer to the below verse where I?ve highlighted?
We responded to him and granted him John; we fixed his wife for him. That is because they used to hasten to work righteousness, and implored us in situations of joy, as well as fear. To us, they were reverent.
peace
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peace
What would be your answer to the below verse where I?ve highlighted?
We responded to him and granted him John; we fixed his wife for him. That is because they used to hasten to work righteousness, and implored us in situations of joy, as well as fear. To us, they were reverent.
peace
Peace,
See 4251.
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So whenever HE talks about the events in this world thats controlled by Him.. he uses "We" and whenever He talks about Creation he talks about "I Amin
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/056.%20Al%20Waqeta/56.57a.gif
We have created you people. Then why don't you accept/admit it?
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/056.%20Al%20Waqeta/56.58a.gif
Do you people then see/reflect on that which you people pour?
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/056.%20Al%20Waqeta/56.59a.gif
Do you people create him/that particular single sperm? or We are the Creator?Chapter56
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Salaam OPF,
You said, Quote-"At each moment in time, "We" gets bigger. "We" always submits to ALLAH and it can do nothing else; this is the divine balance. "We" is relative to the observer; your "We" is not my "We" and it will not be until the day when "We" becomes "I"."
My question is how can the thought become the thinker?
You say a day will arrive when 'we' becomes 'I', this would mean the thought the 'we' transforms into the 'I' the thinker, please explain the logic of your statement.
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Salaam OPF,
You said, Quote-"At each moment in time, "We" gets bigger. "We" always submits to ALLAH and it can do nothing else; this is the divine balance. "We" is relative to the observer; your "We" is not my "We" and it will not be until the day when "We" becomes "I"."
My question is how can the thought become the thinker?
You say a day will arrive when 'we' becomes 'I', this would mean the thought the 'we' transforms into the 'I' the thinker, please explain the logic of your statement.
I think it's inevitable that one day everything will be connected to a level such that humans will lose ego identity wholesale and invididual frustrations cease to be as we recognise that the entire universe is one, smooth and seamless.
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Peace Jack
Thanks for the verse??..Are you implying that for imploring God we need some medium or intercessor?...Could pleas elaborate on it ....what you mean by reminding that verse? Thanks
Peace
Peace Asana,
"Need" a medium? No.
When we 'communicate' with The God, it goes through a frequency, which to me is Jibreel/The spirit hence 'We'. I drew this from 297 & 26193-94 and as previously mentioned 4251. Even the prophet was incapable of communicating with God 'face to face'.
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Peace Asana,
"Need" a medium? No.
When we 'communicate' with The God, it goes through a frequency, which to me is Jibreel/The spirit hence 'We'. I drew this from 297 & 26193-94 and as previously mentioned 4251. Even the prophet was incapable of communicating with God 'face to face'.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.186.gif
And when My servants ask you concerning Me, for reason I am indeed nearby;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.186a.gif
I listen/respond/attend to the prayer/call of the suppliant when he calls on Me
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.186b.gif
Therefore let them willingly respond to My call , and believe in Me so that they could/may walk in the right way .Chapter 2
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Peace Jack
<When we 'communicate' with The God, it goes through a frequency, which to me is Jibreel/The spirit hence 'We'. I drew this from 297 & 26193-94 and as previously mentioned 4251. Even the prophet was incapable of communicating with God 'face to face'.>
But what?s it got to do with our imploring God Alone? The verse 2190 specifically says ?us? and we?re not allowed to implore God along others with Him.
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When you understand who ALLAH is, you see, feel and hear ALLAH everywhere, the truth of ALLAH is inescapable. ALLAH pervades every blade of grass on every field, every speck of sand on every single beach, every particle of existence, every ray of light - ALLAH is EVERYTHING (one) but not "every thing" (many).
When you read the quran, "we" refers to the (illusorily) divided whole as a unity - "every thing" as "EVERYTHING".
Reality is seamless. Our perception of it is that this is a book, that is a tissue - NO! Rather, everything IS, and that is all.
The We/I in the quran is not a "royal we" actually, nor is it any contradiction but rather, it is carefully used in exactly the right places to make it clear that your ALLAH is ONE, just as reality is ONE.
Communication TO the I is instantaneous, there are no messengers required, this is why every prayer is indeed heard, in the collective mind of God. Communication FROM the I is different and this is why messengers have been sent down - how CAN the entire universe communicate with a bunch of small entities on a planet named Earth?
God is not an abstract conception of some invisible guy in the sky - God is THE force that channels THE energy of reality. There is no dividing this force into subcomponents, this force is I. The energy however is easily divided into subcomponents but these exist in name only (still, names are powerful!), this energy is Us.
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Salaam OPF,
You said, Quote-"At each moment in time, "We" gets bigger. "We" always submits to ALLAH and it can do nothing else; this is the divine balance. "We" is relative to the observer; your "We" is not my "We" and it will not be until the day when "We" becomes "I"."
My question is how can the thought become the thinker?
You say a day will arrive when 'we' becomes 'I', this would mean the thought the 'we' transforms into the 'I' the thinker, please explain the logic of your statement.
The conceptual problem lies in the assumption most people operate under a formal distinction between observer and observed.
Like OPF, I have slowly come to think in more panentheistic terms (or monistic terms, if you like). My thoughts on this have changed semi-drastically over the past year or so.
When one thinks in terms of existence = Consciousness merely experiencing Itself, it all starts to make sense.
And yes I realize that sounds like new age talk.
I'd recommend The Self-Aware Universe by Amit Goswami.
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Peace OPF
I believe some Sufis think/believe as you do?.What you say basically is that the whole universe is the body of God?..Am I right? If that?s what you saying when I think deep down I can?t accept it because the ?I? is the Creator of the universe and can not be creator of His own Body.
Are you familiar with Bahaullah?s concept the prophet of Bahai faith?