I and We
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This is my understanding currently for why I is used in the above verses instead of We. Does anyone else have any thoughts, commentary etc. about my understanding for the usage of I in these instances instead of We?
Not really. Linguistic interpretation is the hardest way I found to interpret the Koran. Thats why I simply focus on context rather than linguistic analysis. Anyways I am not a technocrat.
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057.001
YUSUFALI Whatever is in the heavens and on earth,- let it declare the Praises and Glory of Allah for He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
057.002
YUSUFALI To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth It is He Who gives Life and Death; and He has Power over all things.
057.003
YUSUFALI He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent and He has full knowledge of all things.
057.004
YUSUFALI He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.
057.005
YUSUFALI To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all affairs are referred back to Allah. 057.006
YUSUFALI He merges Night into Day, and He merges Day into Night; and He has full knowledge of the secrets of (all) hearts.Going by those verses and just about all through Quran Allah refers to Himself in the third person which would lead many to think that Muhammed authored Quran and not Allah Himself.
'We' is also Allah referring to Himself and is like the Royal 'we'. English people would prbably see this more, its like 'We are not ammused' that Queen Victoria was famous for saying.
Royal people use We because they believe that The God is on their side, that they are The God's representative. Research "ruling by divine right."
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http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14531.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14531.msg165822#msg165822As the second link shows, the person being quoted is saying that it refers to We because it refers to God and the Holy Spirit Jibreel.
A better explanation than your explanation, that God is referring to Himself only with We.
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"I" is the Creator,
i think "We" is the God in the created system, so God is part or whole of the creations.
So whenever HE talks about the events in this world thats controlled by Him.. he uses "We" and whenever He talks about Creation he talks about "I".
Your Lord said to the angels, "I am creating a human being from aged mud, like the potter's clay.
"Once I perfect him, and blow into him from My spirit, you shall fall prostrate before him."
Inform My servants that I am the Forgiver, Most Merciful.i may be wrong. God knows the best.
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peace
What would be your answer to the below verse where I?ve highlighted?
We responded to him and granted him John; we fixed his wife for him. That is because they used to hasten to work righteousness, and implored us in situations of joy, as well as fear. To us, they were reverent.
peace
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peace
What would be your answer to the below verse where I?ve highlighted?
We responded to him and granted him John; we fixed his wife for him. That is because they used to hasten to work righteousness, and implored us in situations of joy, as well as fear. To us, they were reverent.
peace
Peace,
See 4251.
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So whenever HE talks about the events in this world thats controlled by Him.. he uses "We" and whenever He talks about Creation he talks about "I Amin
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/056.%20Al%20Waqeta/56.57a.gif
We have created you people. Then why don't you accept/admit it?
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/056.%20Al%20Waqeta/56.58a.gif
Do you people then see/reflect on that which you people pour?
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/056.%20Al%20Waqeta/56.59a.gif
Do you people create him/that particular single sperm? or We are the Creator?Chapter56
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Salaam OPF,
You said, Quote-"At each moment in time, "We" gets bigger. "We" always submits to ALLAH and it can do nothing else; this is the divine balance. "We" is relative to the observer; your "We" is not my "We" and it will not be until the day when "We" becomes "I"."
My question is how can the thought become the thinker?
You say a day will arrive when 'we' becomes 'I', this would mean the thought the 'we' transforms into the 'I' the thinker, please explain the logic of your statement.
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Salaam OPF,
You said, Quote-"At each moment in time, "We" gets bigger. "We" always submits to ALLAH and it can do nothing else; this is the divine balance. "We" is relative to the observer; your "We" is not my "We" and it will not be until the day when "We" becomes "I"."
My question is how can the thought become the thinker?
You say a day will arrive when 'we' becomes 'I', this would mean the thought the 'we' transforms into the 'I' the thinker, please explain the logic of your statement.
I think it's inevitable that one day everything will be connected to a level such that humans will lose ego identity wholesale and invididual frustrations cease to be as we recognise that the entire universe is one, smooth and seamless.
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Peace Jack
Thanks for the verse??..Are you implying that for imploring God we need some medium or intercessor?...Could pleas elaborate on it ....what you mean by reminding that verse? Thanks
Peace
Peace Asana,
"Need" a medium? No.
When we 'communicate' with The God, it goes through a frequency, which to me is Jibreel/The spirit hence 'We'. I drew this from 297 & 26193-94 and as previously mentioned 4251. Even the prophet was incapable of communicating with God 'face to face'.
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Peace Asana,
"Need" a medium? No.
When we 'communicate' with The God, it goes through a frequency, which to me is Jibreel/The spirit hence 'We'. I drew this from 297 & 26193-94 and as previously mentioned 4251. Even the prophet was incapable of communicating with God 'face to face'.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.186.gif
And when My servants ask you concerning Me, for reason I am indeed nearby;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.186a.gif
I listen/respond/attend to the prayer/call of the suppliant when he calls on Me
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.186b.gif
Therefore let them willingly respond to My call , and believe in Me so that they could/may walk in the right way .Chapter 2
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Peace Jack
<When we 'communicate' with The God, it goes through a frequency, which to me is Jibreel/The spirit hence 'We'. I drew this from 297 & 26193-94 and as previously mentioned 4251. Even the prophet was incapable of communicating with God 'face to face'.>
But what?s it got to do with our imploring God Alone? The verse 2190 specifically says ?us? and we?re not allowed to implore God along others with Him.
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When you understand who ALLAH is, you see, feel and hear ALLAH everywhere, the truth of ALLAH is inescapable. ALLAH pervades every blade of grass on every field, every speck of sand on every single beach, every particle of existence, every ray of light - ALLAH is EVERYTHING (one) but not "every thing" (many).
When you read the quran, "we" refers to the (illusorily) divided whole as a unity - "every thing" as "EVERYTHING".
Reality is seamless. Our perception of it is that this is a book, that is a tissue - NO! Rather, everything IS, and that is all.
The We/I in the quran is not a "royal we" actually, nor is it any contradiction but rather, it is carefully used in exactly the right places to make it clear that your ALLAH is ONE, just as reality is ONE.
Communication TO the I is instantaneous, there are no messengers required, this is why every prayer is indeed heard, in the collective mind of God. Communication FROM the I is different and this is why messengers have been sent down - how CAN the entire universe communicate with a bunch of small entities on a planet named Earth?
God is not an abstract conception of some invisible guy in the sky - God is THE force that channels THE energy of reality. There is no dividing this force into subcomponents, this force is I. The energy however is easily divided into subcomponents but these exist in name only (still, names are powerful!), this energy is Us.
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Salaam OPF,
You said, Quote-"At each moment in time, "We" gets bigger. "We" always submits to ALLAH and it can do nothing else; this is the divine balance. "We" is relative to the observer; your "We" is not my "We" and it will not be until the day when "We" becomes "I"."
My question is how can the thought become the thinker?
You say a day will arrive when 'we' becomes 'I', this would mean the thought the 'we' transforms into the 'I' the thinker, please explain the logic of your statement.
The conceptual problem lies in the assumption most people operate under a formal distinction between observer and observed.
Like OPF, I have slowly come to think in more panentheistic terms (or monistic terms, if you like). My thoughts on this have changed semi-drastically over the past year or so.
When one thinks in terms of existence = Consciousness merely experiencing Itself, it all starts to make sense.
And yes I realize that sounds like new age talk.
I'd recommend The Self-Aware Universe by Amit Goswami.
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Peace OPF
I believe some Sufis think/believe as you do?.What you say basically is that the whole universe is the body of God?..Am I right? If that?s what you saying when I think deep down I can?t accept it because the ?I? is the Creator of the universe and can not be creator of His own Body.
Are you familiar with Bahaullah?s concept the prophet of Bahai faith? -
Peace Jack
<When we 'communicate' with The God, it goes through a frequency, which to me is Jibreel/The spirit hence 'We'. I drew this from 297 & 26193-94 and as previously mentioned 4251. Even the prophet was incapable of communicating with God 'face to face'.>
But what?s it got to do with our imploring God Alone? The verse 2190 specifically says ?us? and we?re not allowed to implore God along others with Him.
It has everything to do with our imploring 'God alone'. Call it as angels/jibreel bearers of the message sent If you will.
No one is claiming It's okay to implore others etc. We're not imploring others alongside him. It's just how our e-mails goes through--in this instance 'sent back'--the system.
HE responded, but it became WE because others were involved e.g. 1177 where messengers were sent to Lot.When you understand who ALLAH is, you see, feel and hear ALLAH everywhere, the truth of ALLAH is inescapable. ALLAH pervades every blade of grass on every field, every speck of sand on every single beach, every particle of existence, every ray of light - ALLAH is EVERYTHING (one) but not "every thing" (many).
When you read the quran, "we" refers to the (illusorily) divided whole as a unity - "every thing" as "EVERYTHING".
Reality is seamless. Our perception of it is that this is a book, that is a tissue - NO! Rather, everything IS, and that is all.
The We/I in the quran is not a "royal we" actually, nor is it any contradiction but rather, it is carefully used in exactly the right places to make it clear that your ALLAH is ONE, just as reality is ONE.
Communication TO the I is instantaneous, there are no messengers required, this is why every prayer is indeed heard, in the collective mind of God. Communication FROM the I is different and this is why messengers have been sent down - how CAN the entire universe communicate with a bunch of small entities on a planet named Earth?
God is not an abstract conception of some invisible guy in the sky - God is THE force that channels THE energy of reality. There is no dividing this force into subcomponents, this force is I. The energy however is easily divided into subcomponents but these exist in name only (still, names are powerful!), this energy is Us.
Well said.
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Peace OPF
I believe some Sufis think/believe as you do.What you say basically is that the whole universe is the body of God..Am I right? If thats what you saying when I think deep down I cant accept it because the I is the Creator of the universe and can not be creator of His own Body.
Are you familiar with Bahaullahs concept the prophet of Bahai faith?I realise that this is the true form of reality, the choice to think/believe any other way is illusory. Sure you may believe or disbelieve in THE reality but "at the end of the day" when one "sleeps", one is a puppet of the divine I and nothing more - how true is this, alive or "dead"!
Each human being is crafted & shaped instantaneously in the womb as exactly the right egg meets the right sperm to keep the balance and harmony of nature to within divinely ordained limits; our personalities are mere imprints of our brains.
Those that accept that they are puppets can then see the puppet strings and speak to the puppetmaster (so to speak) but those who never look up/in never see the puppet strings.
I would say that the whole universe is the body of God, the rules of physical reality are the mind of God. Together, they make up the soul of God, THE Self.
Also new age talk is a distraction, that's something I've never understood. There are zillions of sites plastered with pure dribble (evident by the fact that much information is claimed without source) that speak in this vein but they never do guide to the truth.
Which is strange because language itself directs one to understand the truths of reality in the most innate way possible - one driven by instinct/feeling or to put it better, the collective understandings of a hundred million more/less divinely ordained orgasms preceding you, once guided by the hand of God alone but now in the human brain there is an "I" and THE I to contend with.
For instance, when one says "you" - there is only ever one "you" that it is directed at yet there are many "I"s to recieve it (even when there are no humans around to hear, some ONE does hear!). Yet YOU experience words directed at your Self.
Regarding Bahaullah, no I'm not very familiar with that concept, can you explain?
And as for your paradox - "If thats what you saying when I think deep down I cant accept it because the I is the Creator of the universe and can not be creator of His own Body."
The creation of the universe is easy and takes 3 steps
1.) Start from pure nothingness
2.) Think/see, hear/feel, all things around "YOU" in the present moment then sing your own melody perfectly in tune with the divine rhythm (whether you are a particle or a human being)
3.) Make sure there aren't any unawares around at the time (easily done hehe) to declare that since they once didn't exist, you couldn't possibly exist despite the fact that you are the LORD OF POSSIBILITY.When one speaks, one speaks for themselves. When one speaks truth, one speaks for one while one speaks for all.
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@OPF
Quote<I would say that the whole universe is the body of God, the rules of physical reality are the mind of God. Together, they make up the soul of God, THE Self.>
Based on what you believe/say when God says that He punishes the disbelievers actually He punishes part of His own body?.In that case what happened to the God of Mighty , Wise, Just and Merciful?It looks like He doesn?t care about His own body while He?s asking us to look after ourselves??..What you?re saying is that God is asking/communicating with His own body(us) and then if one part goes wrong He would punish/eliminate that part(sending to hell)?..Now the question is that the God you believe in what?re His Qualities?........Because the god I know/believe in is Most Wise and can fix things before it goes wrong if He wills therefore your belief doesn?t match with Him.
Do you believe in Quran?
Quote< The creation of the universe is easy and takes 3 steps
1.) Start from pure nothingness
2.) Think/see, hear/feel, all things around "YOU" in the present moment then sing your own melody perfectly in tune with the divine rhythm (whether you are a particle or a human being)
3.) Make sure there aren't any unawares around at the time (easily done hehe) to declare that since they once didn't exist, you couldn't possibly exist despite the fact that you are the LORD OF POSSIBILITY.>>You?re talking about the creation/creating after when it?s established Who God is?.You should take me one step back and tell me what was that nothingness that God came out of it and started creating His own body?.??Because the god you?re talking about has a body and should have started creating His own body from some point/nothingness ??..I?m asking this question because once you establish who God is/how came out to existence then we can talk about His body as you believe/perceive.
Regarding Bahaullah I think it?s better to leave it out because discussing his perception make this discussion complicated .I just thought you might know about his view.
peace