Taking off the Hijab
-
Dear Leyna,
It is nice discussing with you. You are a fair and reasonable woman, and I give you credit for that handshake
And I think it was unnecessary to point out something you said which was a contradiction. None of us are perfect, and we can all make mistakes. So forget what i wrote about your contradiction. It was unnecesary of me to write that. So I will take that back )
No. And I don't believe that. But maybe we should leave the discussion about feminism for another thread since this is the "taking off hijab" discussion.
I hope you are not in denial of reality, and that you just don't know about the negative things feminism has done to women and men in our society. And about the hidden history of feminism. If you are not in denial of reality (which you are probably not), then you may wish to do a research about the negative things feminism has done to society. This is just some advice from me. I tell you this with good intention. peace
-
And I think it was unnecessary to point out something you said which was a contradiction. None of us are perfect, and we can all make mistakes. So forget what i wrote about your contradiction. It was unnecesary of me to write that. So I will take that back
)Nooo, you don't have to. You are right, what I wrote sounds like a clear contradiction, and I didn't express myself properly.
I am off to meet a friend at the park now though, so I will clarify later.
OK, speaking of going to the park ... I'm wearing a long skirt and a tank top. I will see people dressed in all sorts of styles there, some will wear Jeans and a T-Shirt, some will wear a bikini (a minority though), there will be short and long dresses and pants and pretty much everything in between.
The other week when hanging out there, I was sitting beside a group of Turkish people. One woman was wearing a headscarf, right beside her was a woman in a miniskirt and a tank top. That's the sort of thing I like ... diversity and no separation of people because of the way they dress.
Have a good evening everyone. peace
-
As I said, I dress differently in Germany than I dress in Egypt. And how I dress also depends on whether I go to work, shopping, visiting friends, a beach and so on.
I got two more questions for you
- How do you think men and women should dress when they are in the beach?
- Is modesty important on the beach? Are the quranic limits/laws important on the beach also?
-
OK, speaking of going to the park ... I'm wearing a long skirt and a tank top. I will see people dressed in all sorts of styles there, some will wear Jeans and a T-Shirt, some will wear a bikini (a minority though), there will be short and long dresses and pants and pretty much everything in between.
In my opinion, wearing a long skirt and a tank top can be a good choice of clothing in the summertime. And it is modest as well.
Have a good evening
-
I got two more questions for you
- How do you think men and women should dress when they are in the beach?
- Is modesty important on the beach? Are the quranic limits/laws important on the beach also?
Modesty is important in the beach too. Dress code may be not as stricter as if you wear something at the beach it might not get any attention but it would get some attention if you wear it on the street.
-
Peace nsws )
Thanks for your reply. I agree that dress code can be more relaxed on the beach. How do you think men and women should dress when they are in the beach?
-
how about those tribal women who don't wear any tops at all? It is perfectly modest for them not to wear any top, isn't it?
-
how about those tribal women who don't wear any tops at all? It is perfectly modest for them not to wear any top, isn't it?
Peace RasulHamsa )
Good question. Since they do not follow islam based on quran (they have another religion), they do not have to follow the same duties as muslims. But that does not mean that what they are doing is right or modest.
-
I think modesty is relative, like the modesty of beach is different than the modesty of street or perhaps work place? and I think if in any culture where not wearing a top is perfectly modest is perfectly fine with God too?
-
If something is wrong, is it not wrong everywhere? So if something is immodest, is it not immodest everywhere?
Then again we can say that if a man has a very relaxed dress code in front of his wife, then that would not be immodest.
But if he has a very relaxed dress code in front of other women than his wife, then that would be immodest.
So I agree that immodesty can be relative. But is immodesty always relative? For example the Quran tells women to
cover their breasts. Does it mean that this law should not be followed when a woman is on the beach?The reason I am asking these questions is to find the right answers. I think philosophy is very interesting.
-
Peace all
I got some questions.
Is the clothing of the persons in the pictures below modest?
http//www.newsgroper.com/files/post_images/6_3_michael_phelps.bmp
http//static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/denise-richards-bikini-photo_231x309.jpgKeep in mind that I am not saying their clothes are modest or immodest.
-
If something is wrong, is it not wrong everywhere? So if something is immodest, is it not immodest everywhere?
Then again we can say that if a man has a very relaxed dress code in front of his wife, then that would not be immodest.
But if he has a very relaxed dress code in front of other women than his wife, then that would be immodest.
So I agree that immodesty can be relative. But is immodesty always relative? For example the Quran tells women to
cover their breasts. Does it mean that this law should not be followed when a woman is on the beach?The reason I am asking these questions is to find the right answers. I think philosophy is very interesting.
Imo, modesty should be defined by the dictates of the time/locale in discussion. So, while modesty is required "everywhere," the details of what modesty entails vary. It's a qualified relativism.
-
Imo, modesty should be defined by the dictates of the time/locale in discussion. So, while modesty is required "everywhere," the details of what modesty entails vary. It's a qualified relativism.
exactly!
-
Imo, modesty should be defined by the dictates of the time/locale in discussion. So, while modesty is required "everywhere," the details of what modesty entails vary. It's a qualified relativism.
Peace CavemanDoctor,
Thank you for your answer. But my first and second questions in the post, were rhetorical questions. Hence, i answered them myself. I tried to find the meaning of the concept "qualified relativism" on the internet but I could not find it. I think modesty should not only be defined by the dictates of time/locale in discussion, as this would go against these quranic verses 235-6 and 2431.
For example in the gym in the country I live in, it is very common that men shower naked in front of other men in the wardrobe of the gym, and that women shower naked in front of other women in the wardrobe of the gym. But if someone follows islam based on quran, he/she should not shower naked in front of other men or women in the gym wardrobe. Why? Because in verses 235-6 and verse 2431, we are told to guard our private parts, which means men should not show their private parts in a gym wardrobe to other men, and women should not show their private parts in a gym wardrobe to other women. Therefore, we can see from the above example that modesty is not defined by the dictates of locale in discussion.
-
Relativism is the idea that some elements or aspects of experience or culture are relative to, i.e., dependent on, other elements or aspects.
limited or restricted; not absolute
'qualified relativism' means a relative/subjective/variable element within defined limits (i.e. qualified), in other words there is a minimum defined/specified/set criteria and the rest is relative, dependent on time/locale/wearer/situation/society/etc.
-
I got two more questions for you
- How do you think men and women should dress when they are in the beach?
- Is modesty important on the beach? Are the quranic limits/laws important on the beach also?
salam,
look at this
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598402.0 -
below are a few different translations i got off the submitters website for 2431
"And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests" Khalifa translation
"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms" Pickthall translation
"And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms" Shakir Translation
"And say to the believing women that they restrain their looks and guard their private parts, and that they display not their beauty or their embellishment except that which is apparent thereof, and that they draw their head-coverings over their bosoms" Sher Alin translation
when i stop wearing hijab, i was wondering what my requirements are from the Quran when it comes to covering my chest, at the moment i just have my hijab go lower over my top to do the job. this is even when im not wearing low-cut tops which would reveal any skin.
my question is would you consider the veil asked for in the Quran as tops that cover your chest well or would you on top of your cloths need another layer like a shall or scarf to cover any shape?
-
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htm
thanks for the link wakas,
i meant isamic dress in relation to chest area, i cant figure out if just covering with cloths is enough (eg shirt) or would you need a to draw an extra layer over?
i've had this debate and different translations make me unsure, does anyone know or have an opinion they can back using Quran?
