I need help on a debate.

Sirius

so they do go to the toilet with us then? I thought none went to the toilet with us and stayed outside, hence reciting something when we go so the devil wont get us while we are unprotected by the angels of whatever. Now you islam qa have confirmed there will be angels writing my 'deeds' of the bathroom? &

It's only a bathroom in your mind (unless you have a door sign of course). I would say just keep the door open but the forcefield between the threshold said to be indefinitely impermeable.

unknownuser

so they do go to the toilet with us then? I thought none went to the toilet with us and stayed outside, hence reciting something when we go so the devil wont get us while we are unprotected by the angels of whatever. Now you islam qa have confirmed there will be angels writing my 'deeds' of the bathroom? &

they also watch you with your husband and when you refuse your husband they curse you till dawn!

Raaajah

It is quite amusing seeing people discussing Hadith, the people who cannot understand straight forward arabic of Quran and have 100's of interpretations are discussing Hadith, through root words,

Allah Ho Akbar.

Leyna

I am confused now ... there seem to be different breeds of angels. Some enter the house when I have dogs and pictures, some don't. hypno

So we have

~ al Khattaabi, the "recording angels" who are constantly around me with their little notepads. They don't mind if I have pictures on the wall or a dog. Why? Because they are so busy writing down my good and bad deeds that they won't notice anyway? Or maybe they like being around pictures and dogs?

~ the "angels of mercy" who "go around with mercy, blessings and prayers for forgiveness". They won't enter my house when I have pictures or dogs. Why? Are they afraid of dogs? Don't they like pictures? And if they are indeed angels of mercy, why are they being so finicky in regards to silly things such as pictures and dogs?

This is all very fascinating and confusing!

I wonder how all those great scholars found out about this. Did they actually interview the angels or what? How do they know about the different kinds of angels and their preferences?

http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=5153 http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=5147 http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=5184 http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=5132 http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=5158

AlFajr

Basically I need some clear unbiased arguments (moderate) against a sunni hujjur.

His statements as such.

1/ The sahih hadith are infallible

2/ Hadith such as 'angels wont visit houses with dogs and pictures' are true

3/ The Quran tells us to follow the sunnah explicitly and uses the actual word sunnah

4/ The method of preservation of the Quran is the same as hadith

5/ hadith represents wahy (second revelation alongside Quran)

Well the burden of proof is on him. Since he is claiming something to be true, he needs to bring evidence to support that.

2875 And We will extract from every nation a witness, then We will say "Bring forth your proof." They will then realize that all truth belongs with God, and what they had invented will abandon them.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof

unknownuser

Basically I need some clear unbiased arguments (moderate) against a sunni hujjur.

His statements as such.

1/ The sahih hadith are infallible

2/ Hadith such as 'angels wont visit houses with dogs and pictures' are true

Peace -- in any debate only need to show a clear contradiction.

Most were carrying coins with pictures 100+ years before hadith...

http//users.rcn.com/j-roberts/1x.jpg

Arab-Sassanians
'Umar b. 'Ubaydallah b. Mi'mar
Governor of Fars (686-89 AD)
Ardashir-Khurra mint, 69 AH
Dirham, silver, 30 mm

Hadith - Muslim, narrated Maymunah
One morning Allah's Messenger was silent with grief. Maymunah said Allah's Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah's Messenger saidGabriel had promised me that he would meet me last night, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises; and Allah's Messenger spent the day in this sad (mood). Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He gave an order and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it on the place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him You promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. So the very next morning he commanded the dogs to be killed. He announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog used for the protection of extensive fields (or big gardens).

Likewise, the sleepers in the cave along with their dog being cared for...

1818
And We turned them
wanuqallibuhum

to
dhta

the right
l-yamni

and to
wadhta

the left,
l-shimli

while their dog
wakalbuhum

stretched
bsiun

his two forelegs
dhirayhi

at the entrance.
bil-wadi

Edip_Yuksel

Basically I need some clear unbiased arguments (moderate) against a sunni hujjur.

His statements as such.

1/ The sahih hadith are infallible

2/ Hadith such as 'angels wont visit houses with dogs and pictures' are true

3/ The Quran tells us to follow the sunnah explicitly and uses the actual word sunnah

4/ The method of preservation of the Quran is the same as hadith

5/ hadith represents wahy (second revelation alongside Quran)

Dear Nafi, since I have given long and serious answers to these and other sunni assertions in my books, especially in Manifesto for Islamic Reform, I will give you my short and funny answers

Yes, sahih hadith are infallible as well as the sahih goat that ate the "verse" abrogating the stoning-to-death literally but not legally. Also, the sahih Pope is infallible. But, personally I do not like his sense of fashion.
Hadith about angels being scared from dogs and pictures is true too, and since I heard about this sahih hadith, I am enjoying every sin in my house; the angles who used to record my sins are now scared of entering my house. Thanks to my dogs and grandma's pictures.
Yes, indeed the Quran uses the actual word sunna explicitly. Though the word Sunna is always used as Sunnat ul-Allah (God's Laws), the word sunan, the plural of sunna, with the exception of one case, is always used to depict the divine law punishing the transgressors, can one billion Muslims and their mullahs be wrong?
Of course, the Sunni quran is preserved like hadith. Therefore we have a quran narrated by Bukhari, and another quran with different number of verses from Ibn Hanbal, and many other versions. Furthermore, each version contains various categories of verses according to their authenticity, which is always a subject of disagreement among various scholars. For instance the sunni quran contains ahadi verses, mursal verses, hasan verses, mawdu verses, mutawatir verses and many more kinds of verses.
Indeed HADITH is WAHY. Read verses 6112-116. (The word WAHY is mentioned in verse 112).

Ayisha

Dear Nafi, since I have given long and serious answers to these and other sunni assertions in my books, especially in Manifesto for Islamic Reform, I will give you my short and funny answers

Yes, sahih hadith are infallible as well as the sahih goat that ate the "verse" abrogating the stoning-to-death literally but not legally. Also, the sahih Pope is infallible. But, personally I do not like his sense of fashion.
Hadith about angels being scared from dogs and pictures is true too, and since I heard about this sahih hadith, I am enjoying every sin in my house; the angles who used to record my sins are now scared of entering my house. Thanks to my dogs and grandma's pictures.
Yes, indeed the Quran uses the actual word sunna explicitly. Though the word Sunna is always used as Sunnat ul-Allah (God's Laws), the word sunan, the plural of sunna, with the exception of one case, is always used to depict the divine law punishing the transgressors, can one billion Muslims and their mullahs be wrong?
Of course, the Sunni quran is preserved like hadith. Therefore we have a quran narrated by Bukhari, and another quran with different number of verses from Ibn Hanbal, and many other versions. Furthermore, each version contains various categories of verses according to their authenticity, which is always a subject of disagreement among various scholars. For instance the sunni quran contains ahadi verses, mursal verses, hasan verses, mawdu verses, mutawatir verses and many more kinds of verses.
Indeed HADITH is WAHY. Read verses 6112-116. (The word WAHY is mentioned in verse 112).

Loved number 2 bravo

Can you highlight that word wahy in here for me please coz I cant find it?

Wakathalika jaAAalna likullinabiyyin AAaduwwan shayateena al-insi waaljinni yooheebaAAduhum ila baAAdin zukhrufa alqawlighurooran walaw shaa rabbuka ma faAAaloohu fatharhumwama yaftaroona

Wakas

peace Nun,

Excellent point with the coins. That is true, some of the coins they used and minted themselves did have pictures on them. This exposes a critical flaw in the so-called "mercy angels will not enter houses" myth. I assume their only argument would be they all kept their coins outside of the house!

unknownuser

Loved number 2 bravo

Can you highlight that word wahy in here for me please coz I cant find it?

Wakathalika jaAAalna likullinabiyyin AAaduwwan shayateena al-insi waaljinni yoohee baAAduhum ila baAAdin zukhrufa alqawlighurooran walaw shaa rabbuka ma faAAaloohu fatharhumwama yaftaroona

yoohee

Ayisha

yoohee

thanks RH handshake