Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah

Mazhar

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Names, or more accurately Asma, are means by which you distinguish something (or a concept) from another, or at least that's how i understand it.

What do you mean by "title"? By the way, it's not such number as "99" that matters (as it is claimed in a "hadith", i have yet to verify it).

The best names of Allah are, imho, very important to understand, because these are to be remembered in our daily tasbih, we can understand Allah better through our understanding of these names. I'm not sure "title" would fit here...

I hope this will give asssurance that you are right.

ti?tle
noun (plural ti?tles)

name a name that identifies a book, movie, play, painting, musical composition, or other literary or artistic work
descriptive heading a descriptive heading for something such as a book chapter, a magazine article, or a speech
publishing Same as title page
published or recorded work a work published or recorded by a company
this spring's new titles
designation added to name a word added to and usually preceding somebody's name to indicate his or her rank, social status, or profession, or as a courtesy, e.g. "Mr.", "Ms.", "Dr.", or "Lord."
name describing position a name that describes somebody's job or position in a company or organization
a job title
championship the status of champion in a sport or competition
a title fight
law right to possess property a legal right to possess and dispose of property
law evidence of property rights the evidence of legal right to property
law document a document giving the legal right to property
law right or proof of right a legitimate right, or something providing proof or justification for a claim
law claim based on right a claim based on a legitimate right
law division a division of a law, statute, or law book
law law heading a heading for a lawsuit or legal action, or one that names a document or statute
christianity requirement of ordination a source of income or office in the church required of a candidate by the Church of England before ordination
christianity Roman Catholic church in Rome a Roman Catholic church in or near Rome that has a bishop or cardinal as its nominal head

ti?tles, plural noun
movies tv credits or subtitles on screen the written presentation on the screen of credits, narration, or subtitles in a movie or television program

transitive verb (past and past participle ti?tled, present participle ti?tling, 3rd person present singular ti?tles)

name somebody or something to give a name or title to somebody or something
call somebody by title to call somebody by a particular title

-ti?tled, , adjective
Microsoft? Encarta? 2006. ? 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Ayisha

It is a non Arab name, therefore you will find in Qur'aan that it is always written in the same way, no declension.

but was it 'Isa' in Aramaic? You said names are not translated into another language but they actually are, just in the same way GOD is translated to Allah or Elli or Deus or Aknatu, its still the same ONE.

Ayisha

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Names, or more accurately Asma, are means by which you distinguish something (or a concept) from another, or at least that's how i understand it.
Yes that is a name but what i'm getting at is raj is convinced Muhammed was the name given to Muhammed by God in Quran, where I am saying he had that name before Quran and his prophethood. When raj asked what was the name I said 'rasool' and it was corrected that this is a 'title' or 'job description' which I agree with, so then I asked is The Merciful etc the 'name' of Allah or a title. Is Allah even a name? None of this is of course relevant to any of this discussion, its that raj has gone off on a tangent to 'prove me wrong' in whatever I say so im just following him ;D

What do you mean by "title"? By the way, it's not such number as "99" that matters (as it is claimed in a "hadith", i have yet to verify it).
Title like 'Judge' is a title of a Judge, its what he does. or Mr. is a title or Dr. is a title. The Judge is a 'title' of Allah.

The best names of Allah are, imho, very important to understand, because these are to be remembered in our daily tasbih, we can understand Allah better through our understanding of these names. I'm not sure "title" would fit here...
I agree they are very important to understand and title may not fit for all but 'name' doesnt fit either for me.

All irrelevant though, He has given these 'titles/names' in Quran for Himself, i'm not disputing any of them although some in their quest to 'prove me wrong whatever' seem to think I do ;D

all good fun peace

Raaajah

Ayisha

But his name was Muhammed BEFORE his prophethood and BEFORE he got the message of Quran, or do you deny that too?

I think it is nearly impossible to have a productive discussion with you.

Please read this Verse not just with open eyes but open heart and mind,

follow the messenger, the gentile prophet , whom they find written in their Torah and Gospel.......

Is the verse about Past, present or future,? (at the time of revelation). It was already been decided in the greater plan of Allah, that a Person will come in Future, who will be Prophet of Allah, and to your and many's bad luck his name was "Muhammad" as called by Allah in Quran.

And your un answered questions?

What does Muhammad means?
Why Allah calls him by the name of Muhammad in Quran?
How is that person predicted or written in Gospels as mentioned in Quran? (If you belkieve in this (ayt).
Where did you find 99 names of Allah in Quran?

are you saying it can? I do wish you would be careful with your question marks as it makes it difficult to understand if you are making a statement or asking a question

Yes Teacher

Raaajah

Ayisha to San

None of this is of course relevant to any of this discussion, its that raj has gone off on a tangent to 'prove me wrong' in whatever I say so im just following him

all good fun

Good way to hide errors and humilation.
Ah! what a Chracter you are lady.....(shall i place a question mark at the end?)

Mazhar

but was it 'Isa' in Aramaic? You said names are not translated into another language but they actually are, just in the same way GOD is translated to Allah or Elli or Deus or Aknatu, its still the same ONE.

Your name is Ayesha. It is Arabic word used as name of a lady. Do we translate it in English or Urdu? No, personal names are not translated. Personal names remain the same, one may only enquires as to what is the perception infolded in that name, but that perception or meanings of the word, does not change its status of being Proper Noun referring to a person. I am not entering into the debate whether a name is Hebrew or Aramic or Persian.

Ayisha

Ayisha
I think it is nearly impossible to have a productive discussion with you.
likewise

Please read this Verse not just with open eyes but open heart and mind,

follow the messenger, the gentile prophet , whom they find written in their Torah and Gospel.......

Is the verse about Past, present or future,? (at the time of revelation). It was already been decided in the greater plan of Allah, that a Person will come in Future, who will be Prophet of Allah, and to your and many's bad luck his name was "Muhammad" as called by Allah in Quran.
it is past as Torah and Gospel were before Quran, it says whom they find mentioned in, it does not say that his name was mentioned but that HE was mentioned, he was foretold about. Why is it my bad luck his name was Muhammed? raj you really are reading things into this that aren't there, as you always seem to.

And your un answered questions?

What does Muhammad means?
answered, see above

Why Allah calls him by the name of Muhammad in Quran?
Answered,see above

How is that person predicted or written in Gospels as mentioned in Quran? (If you belkieve in this (ayt).
answered, see above

Where did you find 99 names of Allah in Quran?
answered, see above

raj, just because an answer is not what you want it to say does not mean the question is not answered and needs to be repeated until you get the answer you want.

Ayisha

Your name is Ayesha. It is Arabic word used as name of a lady. Do we translate it in English or Urdu? No, personal names are not translated. Personal names remain the same, one may only enquires as to what is the perception infolded in that name, but that perception or meanings of the word, does not change its status of being Proper Noun referring to a person. I am not entering into the debate whether a name is Hebrew or Aramic or Persian.

Its actually Ayisha with an i not an e but malesh.

right so the name Muhammed (or Ahmed)was not given as a name in Torah or Gospel, but the 'perception infolded in that name' was mentioned in those books.

san

Ayisha to San

Good way to hide errors and humilation.
Ah! what a Chracter you are lady.....(shall i place a question mark at the end?)

i'm mainly here for learning. i'm not the one to support the "hiding of errors", and i also see no point in trying "to humiliate".

What CHARACTER is there in a man who wish to humiliate other?

However deep my wish is to expose the ill traits of such man in public, i must remind myself to ask my Protector to protect me against such deterioration.

Peace.

Ayisha

Good way to hide errors and humilation.
im not humiliated raj, im not the one claiming one thing then another and demanding questions be answered again and again without answering any asked of you.

Ah! what a Chracter you are lady.....(shall i place a question mark at the end?)

if its a question then yes, if its a statement then no.

I know I am and thank you ;D

Mazhar

Its actually Ayisha with an i not an e but malesh.

right so the name Muhammed (or Ahmed)was not given as a name in Torah or Gospel, but the 'perception infolded in that name' was mentioned in those books.

Did I give opinion about this? Or is it the inference you are drawing from the statement that names are not translated from say Hebrew to Arabic and from Arabic to English or Aramic? Or you interpret as above these words of Qur'aan

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.157f%20small.gif

siki

And conversely you are not even trying to understand what I am saying. You perhaps even don't want to apply a little mind as to what a Judge means what to say of anything else. Judge does not go to other places to act like judge. Petitioners come to the judge. What I am saying is that a Judge is called and accepted as Judge all the time, twenty four hours, whether or not he is administering justice or performing/acting as judge.

No body is disputing that a judge should not be known/called as Mr justice out side his court, the matter is weather can he act out like a judge 24/7 out side his office ?

Same way , I have no problem identifying Mohammad ( pbuh ) as a messenger , but what you are not understanding is, "his messenger ship is restricted to the message"

When he is delivering Quran he is a messenger, but there are other human aspects to his life when he is not performing the duty as a messenger.

If you study all the Koranic ayahs where it is being conveyed that, " Take what messenger gives you , or follow the messenger ", It is always the word "messenger" used, never , Follow Muhammad "the person"

I sincerely hope that you can grasp this difference.

siki

Leyna

Your name is Ayesha. It is Arabic word used as name of a lady. Do we translate it in English or Urdu? No, personal names are not translated.

Huh? Personal names are being translated all the time. ???

Btw., Turks don't use Ayisha, they say Aye, and it's pronounced differently.

Mazhar

Huh? Personal names are being translated all the time. ???

Btw., Turks don't use Ayisha, they say Aye, and it's pronounced differently.

English people cannot pronounce certain sounds of Arabic consonants, and similarly Arabs cannot pronounce certain sounds of consonants of Urdu. And they adjust it accordingly? Does this, in your language, means translation while we are presuming so far that translation means to put the meanings of some word of a language into another language.

Mazhar

Same way , I have no problem identifying Mohammad ( pbuh ) as a messenger , but what you are not understanding is, "his messenger ship is restricted to the message"

When he is delivering Quran he is a messenger, but there are other human aspects to his life when he is not performing the duty as a messenger.

If you study all the Koranic ayahs where it is being conveyed that, " Take what messenger gives you , or follow the messenger ", It is always the word "messenger" used, never , Follow Muhammad "the person"

I sincerely hope that you can grasp this difference.

Strange philosphy. The word Messenger itself means a PERSON who delivers the message. Why forget, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and I don't find "messenger ship" in dictionary. He is the Messenger of Allah all the time.

Ayisha

Strange philosphy. The word Messenger itself means a PERSON who delivers the message. Why forget, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and I don't find "messenger ship" in dictionary. He is the Messenger of Allah all the time.

It's not a strange philosophy, yes the messenger is the messenger of Allah all the time but he's not delivering the message all the time so I don't see how you can't understand what Siki is saying. A Judge is always known as a Judge or Mr Justice but when he comes to dinner and there is a dispute he is not asked to make a legal ruling about who carves the meat. In the same way everything the messenger said is not part of the message he was to deliver so when he said 'wife cook my dinner' he was acting as a husband, which again he is all the time, but not acting as the messenger and this is not part of the message he was to deliver.

Mazhar

It's not a strange philosophy, yes the messenger is the messenger of Allah all the time but he's not delivering the message all the time so I don't see how you can't understand what Siki is saying. A Judge is always known as a Judge or Mr Justice but when he comes to dinner and there is a dispute he is not asked to make a legal ruling about who carves the meat. In the same way everything the messenger said is not part of the message he was to deliver so when he said 'wife cook my dinner' he was acting as a husband, which again he is all the time, but not acting as the messenger and this is not part of the message he was to deliver.

If for a little while one is not haunted by the hadithists, things will become conveniently understandable. Why get worried by daily engagements of the Messenger, asking for cooking and eating. His personal activities neither change his status and position during any activity nor that means message. Message is the one he delievered to people orally and in writing, the Qur'aan. His wives are directed to stand for him since he is the Messenger of Allah.

Ayisha

If for a little while one is not haunted by the hadithists, things will become conveniently understandable. Why get worried by daily engagements of the Messenger, asking for cooking and eating. His personal activities neither change his status and position during any activity nor that means message. Message is the one he delievered to people orally and in writing, the Qur'aan. His wives are directed to stand for him since he is the Messenger of Allah.

I am not haunted by hadithists but it seems there is something blocking your understanding of this very simple 'philosophy'.

I assume you agree that Mr Justice wouldn't be granting legal rulings (acting in his capacity as a Judge, performing his duty as a Judge) while dining with friends as his job which gives the title Mr. Justice is restricted to court matters. In the same way the Messengers job was to deliver the message and when he was doing that he was performing his job as messenger, but in other instances of daily life he wasnt. he was still the messenger of Allah but his duty was to deliver the message.

Raaajah

siki

Same way , I have no problem identifying Mohammad ( pbuh ) as a messenger , but what you are not understanding is, "his messenger ship is restricted to the message"
When he is delivering Quran he is a messenger, but there are other human aspects to his life when he is not performing the duty as a messenger.
If you study all the Koranic ayahs where it is being conveyed that, " Take what messenger gives you , or follow the messenger ", It is always the word "messenger" used, never , Follow Muhammad "the person"
I sincerely hope that you can grasp this difference.

Firstly That Messenger happens to be "Muhammad".
Secondly it might help in the discussion if you tell us What are the duties of the Messenger?

For example
Quran calls Muhammad as "Mercy for all the worlds" (sorry if it hurts any body)
If he is part time Messenger than while delivering the Messege he is "Mercy" and when in his real life he is "what?".

A judge to be comapred with Messenger of Allah, who is for all the worlds, and the Last one, does not make any sense.

What Mazhar was saying is that A Judge is a Judge 24 Hours, he gets same protocol from the Government and civilians, weather on duty or not.

Now read this the word of Allah
And know that the messenger of Allah is among you. If he were to obey you in much of the government, ye would surely be in trouble..

Therefore it is very clear that when not delivering the Message, and dealing with daily to daily affairs he is still guided by Allah, and .....

Raaajah

Ayisha

it is past as Torah and Gospel were before Quran, it says whom they find mentioned in, it does not say that his name was mentioned but that HE was mentioned, he was foretold about.

So you agree that Allah had a plan for a Prophet to come, Thanks Allah.
That was my question to you, how is he mentioned/foretold?, and you passed it on to me, as usual.

And the name of that prophet was Muhammad, as Allah calls him in Quran.
YOU CANNOT DENY THIS FACT.

and when you will Know the meaning of MUhammad, you will further know why, Praise is to be Muhammad Rasul Allah.