Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah

Ayisha

Strange philosphy. The word Messenger itself means a PERSON who delivers the message. Why forget, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and I don't find "messenger ship" in dictionary. He is the Messenger of Allah all the time.

It's not a strange philosophy, yes the messenger is the messenger of Allah all the time but he's not delivering the message all the time so I don't see how you can't understand what Siki is saying. A Judge is always known as a Judge or Mr Justice but when he comes to dinner and there is a dispute he is not asked to make a legal ruling about who carves the meat. In the same way everything the messenger said is not part of the message he was to deliver so when he said 'wife cook my dinner' he was acting as a husband, which again he is all the time, but not acting as the messenger and this is not part of the message he was to deliver.

Mazhar

It's not a strange philosophy, yes the messenger is the messenger of Allah all the time but he's not delivering the message all the time so I don't see how you can't understand what Siki is saying. A Judge is always known as a Judge or Mr Justice but when he comes to dinner and there is a dispute he is not asked to make a legal ruling about who carves the meat. In the same way everything the messenger said is not part of the message he was to deliver so when he said 'wife cook my dinner' he was acting as a husband, which again he is all the time, but not acting as the messenger and this is not part of the message he was to deliver.

If for a little while one is not haunted by the hadithists, things will become conveniently understandable. Why get worried by daily engagements of the Messenger, asking for cooking and eating. His personal activities neither change his status and position during any activity nor that means message. Message is the one he delievered to people orally and in writing, the Qur'aan. His wives are directed to stand for him since he is the Messenger of Allah.

Ayisha

If for a little while one is not haunted by the hadithists, things will become conveniently understandable. Why get worried by daily engagements of the Messenger, asking for cooking and eating. His personal activities neither change his status and position during any activity nor that means message. Message is the one he delievered to people orally and in writing, the Qur'aan. His wives are directed to stand for him since he is the Messenger of Allah.

I am not haunted by hadithists but it seems there is something blocking your understanding of this very simple 'philosophy'.

I assume you agree that Mr Justice wouldn't be granting legal rulings (acting in his capacity as a Judge, performing his duty as a Judge) while dining with friends as his job which gives the title Mr. Justice is restricted to court matters. In the same way the Messengers job was to deliver the message and when he was doing that he was performing his job as messenger, but in other instances of daily life he wasnt. he was still the messenger of Allah but his duty was to deliver the message.

Raaajah

siki

Same way , I have no problem identifying Mohammad ( pbuh ) as a messenger , but what you are not understanding is, "his messenger ship is restricted to the message"
When he is delivering Quran he is a messenger, but there are other human aspects to his life when he is not performing the duty as a messenger.
If you study all the Koranic ayahs where it is being conveyed that, " Take what messenger gives you , or follow the messenger ", It is always the word "messenger" used, never , Follow Muhammad "the person"
I sincerely hope that you can grasp this difference.

Firstly That Messenger happens to be "Muhammad".
Secondly it might help in the discussion if you tell us What are the duties of the Messenger?

For example
Quran calls Muhammad as "Mercy for all the worlds" (sorry if it hurts any body)
If he is part time Messenger than while delivering the Messege he is "Mercy" and when in his real life he is "what?".

A judge to be comapred with Messenger of Allah, who is for all the worlds, and the Last one, does not make any sense.

What Mazhar was saying is that A Judge is a Judge 24 Hours, he gets same protocol from the Government and civilians, weather on duty or not.

Now read this the word of Allah
And know that the messenger of Allah is among you. If he were to obey you in much of the government, ye would surely be in trouble..

Therefore it is very clear that when not delivering the Message, and dealing with daily to daily affairs he is still guided by Allah, and .....

Raaajah

Ayisha

it is past as Torah and Gospel were before Quran, it says whom they find mentioned in, it does not say that his name was mentioned but that HE was mentioned, he was foretold about.

So you agree that Allah had a plan for a Prophet to come, Thanks Allah.
That was my question to you, how is he mentioned/foretold?, and you passed it on to me, as usual.

And the name of that prophet was Muhammad, as Allah calls him in Quran.
YOU CANNOT DENY THIS FACT.

and when you will Know the meaning of MUhammad, you will further know why, Praise is to be Muhammad Rasul Allah.

Raaajah

san

i'm mainly here for learning. i'm not the one to support the "hiding of errors", and i also see no point in trying "to humiliate".

What CHARACTER is there in a man who wish to humiliate other?

However deep my wish is to expose the ill traits of such man in public, i must remind myself to ask my Protector to protect me against such deterioration.

Peace.

Ayisha

None of this is of course relevant to any of this discussion, its that raj has gone off on a tangent to 'prove me wrong' in whatever I say so im just following him
Quote
all good fun

Your post becomes irrelevant after the post of Ayisha, where she admits that she is doing it on purpose, and on the other hand by reading her posts its evident that she was asking the answer from Mazhar and not me.

Ayisha

Ayisha
So you agree that Allah had a plan for a Prophet to come, Thanks Allah.
That was my question to you, how is he mentioned/foretold?, and you passed it on to me, as usual.
Where have I ever said there was no plan for another messenger after Jesus? Nowhere raj, again thats in your mind and again you are arguing over something I have not said.

And the name of that prophet was Muhammad, as Allah calls him in Quran.
YOU CANNOT DENY THIS FACT.
And you cannot deny that his name was Muhammed from BIRTH, before prophethood and that is why Allah calls him by his name! He would hardly call hi RAAJAH would he if his name was Muhammed! Use your brain.

and when you will Know the meaning of MUhammad, you will further know why, Praise is to be Muhammad Rasul Allah.

Praise be to ALLAH Lord of the Worlds.

Raj stop idolizing Muhammed, it is not what Allah or Muhammed asks of you.

Ayisha

san
Ayisha

Your post becomes irrelevant after the post of Ayisha, where she admits that she is doing it on purpose, and on the other hand by reading her posts its evident that she was asking the answer from Mazhar and not me.

Doing what on purpose raj? answering your questions? because thats all I have done and still not one answered by you, as always )

san

san
Ayisha

Your post becomes irrelevant after the post of Ayisha, where she admits that she is doing it on purpose, and on the other hand by reading her posts its evident that she was asking the answer from Mazhar and not me.

If you don't think it's relevant to you, then why even bother to reply?

Raaajah

Where have I ever said there was no plan for another messenger after Jesus? Nowhere raj, again thats in your mind and again you are arguing over something I have not said
.

You just assume too much, I did not argued, I just thanked Allah that you believe in a Messenger to come is mentioned in Torah and Gospels. You were not able to tell how? is another story.

And you cannot deny that his name was Muhammed from BIRTH, before prophethood and that is why Allah calls him by his name! He would hardly call hi RAAJAH would he if his name was Muhammed! Use your brain.

His calling him Muhammad and not Raaajah confirms that this is the name Allah has Chosen for his beloved Messenger.

You are not using your brain dear.

It was decided that a Prophet has to come.
Therefore he was a prophet since his birth, (it is only that he was informed about his messengership at 40 Years of age)
Allah choses the names of his messengers

The angels said, "O Mary, GOD gives you good news a Word from Him whose name is `The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He will be prominent in this life and in the Hereafter, and one of those closest to Me.'

Raj stop idolizing Muhammed, it is not what Allah or Muhammed asks of you.

No one is Idolizing, I am praising him as Allah has praised him in various verses of Quran, put forward by me and Mazhar. to Which you have turned your eyes blind.

Mazhar

What Mazhar was saying is that A Judge is a Judge 24 Hours, he gets same protocol from the Government and civilians, weather on duty or not.

And for general public, even in ordinary life, let people see the protocol prescribed by Allah for His Messenger Muhammad . Believing in Allah, "worshipping", as some people keep saying, Him alone, performance of excellent righteous deeds can become meaningless and can go waste remaining as a mark of a wound, just merely by non observance of the laid down protocol of the Messenger . Listen carefully what Allah is prescribing

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/049.%20Al%20Hujrat/49.2a.gif
and you people should never for him be loud in speech/address like that manner some of you people talk loudly with others

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/049.%20Al%20Hujrat/49.2b.gif
lest your deeds become worthless

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/039.%20Az%20Zumar/Temp%2001%2039.55b.gif
while you people are not even aware to perceive it.

Ayisha

.

You just assume too much, I did not argued, I just thanked Allah that you believe in a Messenger to come is mentioned in Torah and Gospels. You were not able to tell how? is another story.
You assumed I didnt believe in the messenger that Quran tells of. Nowhere have I said or implied that I didnt.

I also asked you if you know how, you ignored that. Read Deut 1818 onwards, as I believe that is talking about Muhammed. In the new testament I believe where Jesus says he will send 'another comforter' to be also talking about Muhammed, which is where you started on about Greek Bibles and Parklytos.

His calling him Muhammad and not Raaajah confirms that this is the name Allah has Chosen for his beloved Messenger.
No it confirms his name was Muhammed from birth, he didnt know he was a prophet or messenger until he was 40, do you think he had another name before that? You are purposefully skipping round this.

You are not using your brain dear.

It was decided that a Prophet has to come.
Therefore he was a prophet since his birth, (it is only that he was informed about his messengership at 40 Years of age)
Allah choses the names of his messengers

The angels said, "O Mary, GOD gives you good news a Word from Him whose name is `The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He will be prominent in this life and in the Hereafter, and one of those closest to Me.'
Allah told Mary the name of her child, Allah did not tell Muhammeds parents the name of theirs nor did He tell other prophets parents the name of thiers, if you think otherwise then prove it.

No one is Idolizing, I am praising him as Allah has praised him in various verses of Quran, put forward by me and Mazhar. to Which you have turned your eyes blind.

I have not turned a blind eye to anything Allah has said in Quran, nor that He sent blessings on Muhammed and on us too. Allah also created an entire universe, are you going to try doing that too because Allah did it? Allah does not tell us to raise one prophet higher than others, Muhammed wanted nor asked for any reward for delivering the message, you are idolizing him whether you think you are or not and you are separating him from the other messengers in doing this just as christians do with Jesus.

Ayisha

siki
Firstly That Messenger happens to be "Muhammad".
Secondly it might help in the discussion if you tell us What are the duties of the Messenger?
His only duty is to convey the message

For example
Quran calls Muhammad as "Mercy for all the worlds" (sorry if it hurts any body)
verse please, Quran is a mercy.

If he is part time Messenger than while delivering the Messege he is "Mercy" and when in his real life he is "what?".

A judge to be comapred with Messenger of Allah, who is for all the worlds, and the Last one, does not make any sense.
Allah is Lord of all the worlds, not Muhammed, Muhammed and Allah are different

What Mazhar was saying is that A Judge is a Judge 24 Hours, he gets same protocol from the Government and civilians, weather on duty or not.
but he cannot make legal rulings during dinner, he makes legal rulings in his JOB in court.

Now read this the word of Allah
And know that the messenger of Allah is among you. If he were to obey you in much of the government, ye would surely be in trouble..

Therefore it is very clear that when not delivering the Message, and dealing with daily to daily affairs he is still guided by Allah, and .....

and show respect for who he is. No one is saying anything else but his JOB was to deliver a message and outsid of that he was still a man living a life with family and with business interactions just like anyone else, not everything he said and did is part of his JOB and so not part of the message he delivered. No one is disputing he was the messenger of Allah.

Ayisha

And for general public, even in ordinary life, let people see the protocol prescribed by Allah for His Messenger Muhammad . Believing in Allah, "worshipping", as some people keep saying, Him alone, performance of excellent righteous deeds can become meaningless and can go waste remaining as a mark of a wound, just merely by non observance of the laid down protocol of the Messenger . Listen carefully what Allah is prescribing
The laid down protocol of Allah that the messenger followed you mean?

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/049.%20Al%20Hujrat/49.2a.gif
and you people should never for him be loud in speech/address like that manner some of you people talk loudly with others

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/049.%20Al%20Hujrat/49.2b.gif
lest your deeds become worthless

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/039.%20Az%20Zumar/Temp%2001%2039.55b.gif
while you people are not even aware to perceive it.

Like not shouting and cursing someone who asked a question?

Mazhar

Like not shouting and cursing someone who asked a question?

Seeing by one eye closed will only show this and not that what was written earlier to which was this the response.

Mazhar

And for general public, even in ordinary life, let people see the protocol prescribed by Allah for His Messenger Muhammad . Believing in Allah, "worshipping", as some people keep saying, Him alone, performance of excellent righteous deeds can become meaningless and can go waste remaining as a mark of a wound, just merely by non observance of the laid down protocol of the Messenger . Listen carefully what Allah is prescribing

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/049.%20Al%20Hujrat/49.2a.gif
and you people should never for him be loud in speech/address like that manner some of you people talk loudly with others

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/049.%20Al%20Hujrat/49.2b.gif
lest your deeds become worthless

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/039.%20Az%20Zumar/Temp%2001%2039.55b.gif
while you people are not even aware to perceive it.

And Ayisha, what you have to say about the quote?

Ayisha

Seeing by one eye closed will only show this and not that what was written earlier to which was this the response.

4134

Ayisha

And Ayisha, what you have to say about the quote?

That you shouldn't shout at, or talk above, the messenger.

Raaajah

You assumed I didnt believe in the messenger that Quran tells of. Nowhere have I said or implied that I didnt.

You donot respect him as he should be, is the point. You compare Prophets with animals, there are some who call him a mere post man, there are others who think that he was a part time messenger, that is not funny at all, I feel my duty to inform that we should give due respect to him. to whom Allah has praised in his Book.

I also asked you if you know how, you ignored that. Read Deut 1818 onwards, as I believe that is talking about Muhammed. In the new testament I believe where Jesus says he will send 'another comforter' to be also talking about Muhammed, which is where you started on about Greek Bibles and Parklytos.

Because there you could find the word that is equivalent to Muhammad.

No it confirms his name was Muhammed from birth, he didnt know he was a prophet or messenger until he was 40, do you think he had another name before that? You are purposefully skipping round this.

I think you are a Quran aloner, where did you get the story that his name was Muhammad, Shall we discuss that? Lets remain to Quran what Allah calls him is the name chosen by Allah.

The angels said, "O Mary, GOD gives you good news a Word from Him whose name is `The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He will be prominent in this life and in the Hereafter, and one of those closest to Me.'
Allah told Mary the name of her child, Allah did not tell Muhammeds parents the name of theirs nor did He tell other prophets parents the name of thiers, if you think otherwise then prove it.

The angels said, "O Mary, GOD gives you good news a Word from Him whose name is `The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He will be prominent in this life and in the Hereafter, and one of those closest to Me
O Zakariya! We give thee good news of a son His name shall be Yahya on none by that name have We conferred distinction before."

Its only that they will not believe.

Ayisha

You donot respect him as he should be, is the point. You compare Prophets with animals, there are some who call him a mere post man, there are others who think that he was a part time messenger, that is not funny at all, I feel my duty to inform that we should give due respect to him. to whom Allah has praised in his Book.
dont resepct his as he should be meaning I dont raise his status higher than other messengers or as high as Allah? I respect Muhammed, what you do is idolize him. I have not compared him to animals, I was pointing out that the MESSAGE is the important part and not the messenger that brings it. He was a messenger sent to deliver a message, just like a postman, and whether you like that or not that was his only duty, to deliver the message which is THE important part. I feel it my duty to inform you that what you are doing is making an idol of a messenger of God.

Because there you could find the word that is equivalent to Muhammad.

It has been discussed that the 'description' given in the books is of 'the praised one', or 'the one worthy of praise. In Quran it was said that Jesus called him Ahmed, not Muhammed but Ahmed, praised one or highly praised, this name Ahmed is not in Hebrew but an equivalent will be. You should also know that there are many other names also meaning 'praised one' including the names Judah, Eneus, Hillel and Ahmed, or 'God's grace' John, 'God's servant' Abdul, Abdullah among others, so any one of those names would have suited the description given of the coming messenger.

I think you are a Quran aloner, where did you get the story that his name was Muhammad, Shall we discuss that? Lets remain to Quran what Allah calls him is the name chosen by Allah.
the 'story' that his name was Muhammed?? are you serious? What lengths are you now going to try to go to Raj? Ok, what was his name for 40 years of his life if it wasn't Muhammed? Please I would really like to know. You claime God 'named him' Muhammed and show verse where God named Jesus and john, which in no way proves anything. Where is the verse showing that God sent a message to Muhammeds parents with this name? Why would that be left out if it happened?

The angels said, "O Mary, GOD gives you good news a Word from Him whose name is `The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He will be prominent in this life and in the Hereafter, and one of those closest to Me
O Zakariya! We give thee good news of a son His name shall be Yahya on none by that name have We conferred distinction before."
And the verse where God tells Muhammeds parents is..........?? not there.

Its only that they will not believe.

I believe you are trying to add things to Quran that are not there, I believe you are trying to manipulate verses to prove a moot point and I believe that you are so lost in your idolizing Muhammed you will invent anything to 'prove' what you believe.