Differences in translation of verse 39:18

siki

Because I consider the reader as an intelligent person who will try to apply his mind while seeing the Arabic words.

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And indeed We have since conveyed/caused it reach for them "The Word" ,
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so that they may conveniently save it in memory/remember and recall to orally narrate.

Al Qasas-28

And please find time to study the individual words of the Ayat to exactly know their perception and meanings as well the conotations attached to them. And then study what is meant by listening, saving in memory and then retrieving and stating the same and what are the processes involved. And also please take care of the pronouns employed in the text of the Aayat.

I very well understand what Arabic word "Qaoul" means, When it is Qaoul of ALLaah, It obviously is Quran , which is being conveyed in this particular Ayaha (28-51), But how come o you copy the same meaning and transfer into another ayaha (39-1 which does not have the same context?

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therefore you, the Messenger guarantee/give glad tidings to My Servants;
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those who make themselves attentively listen the Word/Grand Qur'aan thereby/resultantly they incline themselves to act/follow, in letter and spirit, the best course described in that/Grand Qur'aan

3918

First you take two words ( fabashir e ibbad) from the previous (39-17) ayat and attach them here with 39-18, and then half of the 39-18 is compeletly missing. This is manoeuvring (literly) Allah's qauol to convey a meaning of one's own suiting, at its best.

In 39-18 it is being said , "that who examine all the Qauols, and follow the best" they are the ones whom God has guided, they are the ones who posses intelligence" Here the meaning is not restricted to the word of God only ?

Theme of this ayah is, "That one must examine what everybody says (including allah's , which is quran) and follow the Best. Because Allaah is confident that his word (quraan) is the best, and hence would appeal to any intelligent mind seeking truth with honesty.

It is translation of just one ayat by you that i seriously scrutinized, and i find it grossly misinterpreted. Brother, translating Allah's word is serious business, and in my opinion you still have a long distance to go before taking up this task, so be careful, very careful.

siki

Mazhar

siki,

Do you understand what a Relative Pronoun in Arabic means? And do you know it is also adjectival? And do you know it must relate to definite noun and must agree in gender and plurality? Please learn some basics of Arabic, thereat, you will be able to understand what the Arabic text is conveying, and before knowing the meaning first try to learn to identify which one is the complete sentence. I gave you only that part from earlier Ayat and following Ayat which is the complete context.

siki

siki,

Do you understand what a Relative Pronoun in Arabic means? And do you know it is also adjectival? And do you know it must relate to definite noun and must agree in gender and plurality? Please learn some basics of Arabic, thereat, you will be able to understand what the Arabic text is conveying, and before knowing the meaning first try to learn to identify which one is the complete sentence. I gave you only that part from earlier Ayat and following Ayat which is the complete context.

So you mean that two words of a previous ayah are completing the sentence here with 39-18? (although in some other instances they may)
I may be in need to learn some basic arabic , but for sure you need to exercise some common sense, let me show you why,

39-17 And for those who avoid serving evil, and turn to God in repentance, for them are glad tidings. So give the good news to My servants.

what do you think that those two words complete the sentence here in 39-17 or, are reaching forward to next ayat (39-1 to complete the context ?

siki

Mazhar

Dear siki,

There arer already many pseudo intellectuals on this forum, who know nothing about Arabic, yet are writing theses about the Aayat of Qur'aan by picking up many and at times variant meanings written by authors of dictionaries at the start of a Root.

You are so naive that you yourself translate the word "" "My servants". Where is "My" in it? "My" having been omitted and compensated by vowel kasra on a noun which is in accusative case being object of the verb, becomes evident because of "" after it. And remember when "" comes defining the people mentioned in the sentence, the sentence gets complete only with the clause begining with "".

My advise is that while reading Qur'aan neither rely on your common sense nor on so called rocket science. First try to learn Arabic and I assure you it is very easy for all those who are not at heart Munafiq since they even after having learnt Arabic give translations which the most stupid of Arabic student will never do.

MUNZIR_ALI

Dear siki,

There arer already many pseudo intellectuals on this forum, who know nothing about Arabic, yet are writing theses about the Aayat of Qur'aan by picking up many and at times variant meanings written by authors of dictionaries at the start of a Root.

You are so naive that you yourself translate the word "" "My servants". Where is "My" in it? "My" having been omitted and compensated by vowel kasra on a noun which is in accusative case being object of the verb, becomes evident because of "" after it. And remember when "" comes defining the people mentioned in the sentence, the sentence gets complete only with the clause begining with "".

My advise is that while reading Qur'aan neither rely on your common sense nor on so called rocket science. First try to learn Arabic and I assure you it is very easy for all those who are not at heart Munafiq since they even after having learnt Arabic give translations which the most stupid of Arabic student will never do.

My dad (who knows Arabic) says you're right. bravo peace

Mazhar

My dad (who knows Arabic) says you're right. bravo peace

You are lucky; take adantage of the life span of your father, and learn Arabic from him. You will then be amazed while reading any Ayat of Qur'aan, not only by the volume of information compacted in few words but also its marvellous structuring and smooth flow not only in written text but also the sounds.

MUNZIR_ALI

You are lucky; take adantage of the life span of your father, and learn Arabic from him. You will then be amazed while reading any Ayat of Qur'aan, not only by the volume of information compacted in few words but also its marvellous structuring and smooth flow not only in written text but also the sounds.

yes, I will one day. handshake

siki

Dear siki,

There arer already many pseudo intellectuals on this forum, who know nothing about Arabic, yet are writing theses about the Aayat of Qur'aan by picking up many and at times variant meanings written by authors of dictionaries at the start of a Root.

You are so naive that you yourself translate the word "" "My servants". Where is "My" in it? "My" having been omitted and compensated by vowel kasra on a noun which is in accusative case being object of the verb, becomes evident because of "" after it. And remember when "" comes defining the people mentioned in the sentence, the sentence gets complete only with the clause begining with "".

My advise is that while reading Qur'aan neither rely on your common sense nor on so called rocket science. First try to learn Arabic and I assure you it is very easy for all those who are not at heart Munafiq since they even after having learnt Arabic give translations which the most stupid of Arabic student will never do.

Mazhar ,

salam brother

let me tell you something before i start discussing the issue,

I find you to be intellectually dishonest, because over a period of time i have observed that when, you are not able to answer for a mistake , you conveniently ignore the subject and start posting regarding a non issue or a small issue which you can prove,hence successfully diverting the attention of forum members from a blunder of yours. I have seen you doing this over and over . A genuine servant of God never does such a thing , he puts his ego aside , accepts his mistake , corrects it and moves on.
Just because that you know a little more Arabic than an average forum member, so, very often you use it as an intimidation tool, to scare away others from your mistakes. It requires much more than knowing a little Arabic for understanding quran, after all we have 100's of million Arabic speaking muslims who definitely know better Arabic than you.

lets get back to the topic,

There are two issues here, The major issue , " why did you translate the word "Qauoul" in 39-18 as Grand quran " you gave me an example of 28-51, which i proved was irrelevant to the context of this ayah.

Above was the major observation which you conveniently ignored and started harping over the other," Is mubashir ebbaad meant for 39-17 or 39-18" (sense wise)

i will postpone the secondary issue to another post later when we reach some conclusion on the primary issue, so that it becomes difficult for you to use your ignore/divert tactic.

siki

Mazhar

Mazhar ,

salam brother

let me tell you something before i start discussing the issue,

I find you to be intellectually dishonest, because over a period of time i have observed that when, you are not able to answer for a mistake , you conveniently ignore the subject and start posting regarding a non issue or a small issue which you can prove,hence successfully diverting the attention of forum members from a blunder of yours. I have seen you doing this over and over . A genuine servant of God never does such a thing , he puts his ego aside , accepts his mistake , corrects it and moves on.
Just because that you know a little more Arabic than an average forum member, so, very often you use it as an intimidation tool, to scare away others from your mistakes. It requires much more than knowing a little Arabic for understanding quran, after all we have 100's of million Arabic speaking muslims who definitely know better Arabic than you.

lets get back to the topic,

There are two issues here, The major issue , " why did you translate the word "Qauoul" in 39-18 as Grand quran " you gave me an example of 28-51, which i proved was irrelevant to the context of this ayah.

Above was the major observation which you conveniently ignored and started harping over the other," Is mubashir ebbaad meant for 39-17 or 39-18" (sense wise)

i will postpone the secondary issue to another post later when we reach some conclusion on the primary issue, so that it becomes difficult for you to use your ignore/divert tactic.

siki

When a stupid does understand something but is not prepared to accept his earlier stupidity he becomes an idiot, i.e. starts behaving like a retarded child and lies with wide open mouth.

A little while ago you were talking like this

I may be in need to learn some basic arabic , but for sure you need to exercise some common sense, let me show you why,
39-17 And for those who avoid serving evil, and turn to God in repentance, for them are glad tidings. So give the good news to My servants.

what do you think that those two words complete the sentence here in 39-17 or, are reaching forward to next ayat (39-1 to complete the context ?

I was not diverting the attention but was trying to make you realize how stupid are you that without even knowing what a pronoun is, you are insisting to apply common sense about the sentence. Instead of accepting studpidity you have opted to become an evident idiot by your above remarks.

I can make understand rational people but not the one who is self made idiot.

Mazhar

For men of even ordinary prudence it would be clear that "", definite noun, singular, masculine refers to Grand Qur'aan

Because I consider the reader as an intelligent person who will try to apply his mind while seeing the Arabic words.

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And indeed We have since conveyed/caused it reach for them "The Word" ,
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so that they may conveniently save it in memory/remember and recall to orally narrate.

Al Qasas-28

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And these people were guided towards the pure benefiting enduring life through The Word/Grand Qur'aan
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and they were guided upon the path leading to the ever Praised.

Surat Al Hajj-2224

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Is it for reason that they have not critically cross-examined the contents of "The Grand Statement"
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Or has that come to them like of which had not come to their earliest forefathers

"" i.e. Grand Qur'aan has come to them.

2368

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that undoubtedly that/Grand Qur'aan is certainly the Oral and written word/narration by the Exalted Messenger

And then it is told what this "" is

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This is the gradual revelation from the Sustainer Lord of the Worlds/All that exists.

Surat 69

siki

Dear brother

salam

I ask you this ,
"The major issue , " why did you translate the word "Qauoul" in 39-18 as Grand quran " you gave me an example of 28-51, which i proved was irrelevant to the context of this ayah".

and you reply with this ,
Quote Mazhar
"When a stupid does understand something but is not prepared to accept his earlier stupidity he becomes an idiot, i.e. starts behaving like a retarded child and lies with wide open mouth".

wonderful bravo

I further find in the next post, that you have quoted more irrelevant examples, like in 22-24, 23-68, etc, Am i debating these ayahs? they do mean Allah's words in these ayahs , which is quran, and hence you can translate them as quran,

Issue is weather in 39-18, Qauol should be translated as Grand Quran?
kindly cool down , debate and prove it to me that how have you translated Qauol in 39-18 as Grand quran?

After we sort this out , i assure you that we will move on to the secondary issue.

peace

siki

Mazhar

Look the sequence

I very well understand what Arabic word "Qaoul" means, When it is Qaoul of ALLaah, It obviously is Quran , which is being conveyed in this particular Ayaha (28-51), But how come you copy the same meaning and transfer into another ayaha (39-1 which does not have the same context? siki

You accepted that there the word "" refers to Grand Qur'aan. But the problem you raised was putting together two last words of Ayat 3917 alongwith next sentence of Ayat 3918. And you had further observed

First you take two words ( fabashir e ibbad) from the previous (39-17) ayat and attach them here with 39-18, and then half of the 39-18 is compeletly missing. This is manoeuvring (literly) Allah's qauol to convey a meaning of one's own suiting, at its best.
Siki

You were asked, in response, to above

siki,

Do you understand what a Relative Pronoun in Arabic means? And do you know it is also adjectival? And do you know it must relate to definite noun and must agree in gender and plurality? Please learn some basics of Arabic, thereat, you will be able to understand what the Arabic text is conveying, and before knowing the meaning first try to learn to identify which one is the complete sentence. I gave you only that part from earlier Ayat and following Ayat which is the complete context.-Mazhar

You instead of applying little common sense about what was told to you, said this

So you mean that two words of a previous ayah are completing the sentence here with 39-18? (although in some other instances they may)
I may be in need to learn some basic arabic , but for sure you need to exercise some common sense, let me show you why,

39-17 And for those who avoid serving evil, and turn to God in repentance, for them are glad tidings. So give the good news to My servants.

what do you think that those two words complete the sentence here in 39-17 or, are reaching forward to next ayat (39-1 to complete the context ?

siki

I again told you this explaining little nicities, though basics of Arabic, for applying mind before lengthening the debate

Dear siki,

There arer already many pseudo intellectuals on this forum, who know nothing about Arabic, yet are writing theses about the Aayat of Qur'aan by picking up many and at times variant meanings written by authors of dictionaries at the start of a Root.

You are so naive that you yourself translate the word "" "My servants". Where is "My" in it? "My" having been omitted and compensated by vowel kasra on a noun which is in accusative case being object of the verb, becomes evident because of "" after it. And remember when "" comes defining the people mentioned in the sentence, the sentence gets complete only with the clause begining with "".

My advise is that while reading Qur'aan neither rely on your common sense nor on so called rocket science. First try to learn Arabic and I assure you it is very easy for all those who are not at heart Munafiq since they even after having learnt Arabic give translations which the most stupid of Arabic student will never do. Mazhar

And another member of the forum after verifying it from his father who knows Arabic very well, I say this because many translators you keep relying upon had no clue about this, indicated to you that above is correct. But you preferred to say this

Mazhar ,

salam brother

let me tell you something before i start discussing the issue,

I find you to be intellectually dishonest, because over a period of time i have observed that when, you are not able to answer for a mistake , you conveniently ignore the subject and start posting regarding a non issue or a small issue which you can prove,hence successfully diverting the attention of forum members from a blunder of yours. I have seen you doing this over and over . A genuine servant of God never does such a thing , he puts his ego aside , accepts his mistake , corrects it and moves on.
Just because that you know a little more Arabic than an average forum member, so, very often you use it as an intimidation tool, to scare away others from your mistakes. It requires much more than knowing a little Arabic for understanding quran, after all we have 100's of million Arabic speaking muslims who definitely know better Arabic than you.

lets get back to the topic,

Where is the diversion upto this point?

And now you accept that in all the quoted Ayat the word "" refers to Qur'aan. But again you failed to see that I had indicated it that the word is singular, masculine that may be, by chance, you get out of your stupidity of thinking that there is mention of more than two meaning plural Sayings/statements referred in 3918.

Now again look at the words of Ayat

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therefore you, the Messenger guarantee/give glad tidings to My Servants;
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those who make themselves attentively listen the Word/Grand Qur'aan thereby/resultantly they incline themselves to act/follow, in letter and spirit, the best course described in that/Grand Qur'aan

3918

See here it is, like other places where you accept it to be referring to Qur'aan, "", definite, singular, masculine and accusative being object of the verb . And then the pronoun attached to the last word, which is a possessive phrase, is singular; masculin; third person; definite in genitive state; referring to "", definite, singular, masculine.

And now reconsider what you asserted

In 39-18 it is being said , "that who examine all the Qauols, and follow the best" they are the ones whom God has guided, they are the ones who posses intelligence" Here the meaning is not restricted to the word of God only ? Siki

Only those are men of prudence and wisdom who follow the """, which Allah has made to reach them unlike those who keep listening from here and there.

And even if you knew whom Allah considers guided one you might not have said "that who examine all the Qauols, and follow the best"

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They are the people whom Allah has guided
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and they are the people, they are the men of wisdom who look into matters objectively without overlapping it with emotions/prejudices/biases/whims/caprices and conjectural myths.

Have you noticed anywhere in Qur'aan that He guides people through "rocket science of siki"?

Listen how He and His Messenger guides people

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Indeed from Allah has come to you people "An-Noor-Visible Light-Giver and guarantor of continuity of life" i.e. the Book that makes everything distinct/vivid/apparent/manifest/visible/perceivable to vision and mind.
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Allah guides, through/with the Messenger and the Book sent with him, on the passage of eternal peace anyone who followed for seeking the approval and appreciation of Him.

AlMaida

siki

Look the sequence

You accepted that there the word "" refers to Grand Qur'aan. But the problem you raised was putting together two last words of Ayat 3917 alongwith next sentence of Ayat 3918. And you had further observed

i only accepted the usage in 28-51 , not in 39-18 , which i repeatedly asked you to explain,

For men of even ordinary prudence it would be clear that "", definite noun, singular, masculine refers to Grand Qur'aan

so , above is your reason for translating it as grand quran, should i show you exactly same usage in another ayah?

6-112 We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications

I don't know how to copy and paste the Arabic writing, i wish i could do that, but if anyone sees the Arabic , exactly same word has been used as in 22-24, which you translated as grand quran.

so try translating "qaule" in 6-112, as "grand quran" and make sense of the ayah.

lets discuss its usage in the subject ayah.

39-18 The ones who listen to what is being said,(word) or ,(grand quran) then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.

If we replace the "word, or what is being said "with grand quran, the sense becomes,

That you should examine/listen to grand quran then follow the best out of it , It means that quran contains , the best , as well as better, and also no good material , so one should pick out the best from it and only follow that. Does that make sense? I thought all of the quran contains only the best .

What i think this ayah is conveying, "One should listen to what is being said, i mean every body's opinion, but then use your intelligence to evaluate the better/best material and follow it".

It is like , one should listen to every body's opinion but then use your mind and pick out the best advise to derive a course of action.

siki

Mazhar

so , above is your reason for translating it as grand quran, should i show you exactly same usage in another ayah?

6-112 We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications

Dear siki,

Why not you please first learn a little Arabic, then try to read and understand. There is no such word in text which means "to inspire in each other", and again neither you understand that here AlQaul cannot be read in isolation since it is part of possessive phrase for which reason it is in genitive case, and again you are putting plural word in translation for a singular Arabic word.

siki

Dear siki,

Why not you please first learn a little Arabic, then try to read and understand.

where did you learn the arabic from? send me the address and i will oblige

Dear siki,

Why not you please first learn a little Arabic, then try to read and understand. There is no such word in text which means "to inspire in each other",

when i copy and paste a translation , it is just for reference, it does not mean that i agree with everything that the translator has written/translated, so please, you should concentrate only on the issue/word which is under discussion.

could you tell me how do you paste the arbaic ?

what makes al quaol in 6-112 plural? and but does not in 22-24? ( i wish i could paste arabic in both ayahs side by side to show you )

Whats the proof that your underline assertion is correct ,

"For men of even ordinary prudence it would be clear that "", definite noun, singular, masculine refers to Grand Qur'aan"

As usual you have resorted to Arabic grammar intimidation method completely ignoring my logic regarding sense of the sentence that it conveys if we replace the word with grand quran. Kindly discuss it in a manner which i/everybody can understand/grasp.

I shall repeat my objection down below.

39-18 The ones who listen to what is being said,(word) or ,(grand quran) then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.

If we replace the "word, or what is being said "with grand quran, the sense becomes,

That you should examine/listen to grand quran then follow the best out of it , It means that quran contains , the best , as well as better, and also no good material , so one should pick out the best from it and only follow that. Does that make sense? I thought all of the quran contains only the best .

What i think this ayah is conveying, "One should listen to what is being said, i mean every body's opinion, but then use your intelligence to evaluate the better/best material and follow it".

It is like , one should listen to every body's opinion but then use your mind and pick out the best advise to derive a course of action.

siki

Ayisha

( i wish i could paste arabic in both ayahs side by side to show you )

siki, Arabic herehttp//www.openburhan.com/

Ayisha

where did you learn the arabic from? send me the address and i will oblige

when i copy and paste a translation , it is just for reference, it does not mean that i agree with everything that the translator has written/translated, so please, you should concentrate only on the issue/word which is under discussion.

could you tell me how do you paste the arbaic ?

what makes al quaol in 6-112 plural? and but does not in 22-24? ( i wish i could paste arabic in both ayahs side by side to show you )

Whats the proof that your underline assertion is correct ,

"For men of even ordinary prudence it would be clear that "", definite noun, singular, masculine refers to Grand Qur'aan"

As usual you have resorted to Arabic grammar intimidation method completely ignoring my logic regarding sense of the sentence that it conveys if we replace the word with grand quran. Kindly discuss it in a manner which i/everybody can understand/grasp.

I shall repeat my objection down below.

39-18 The ones who listen to what is being said,(word) or ,(grand quran) then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.

If we replace the "word, or what is being said "with grand quran, the sense becomes,

That you should examine/listen to grand quran then follow the best out of it , It means that quran contains , the best , as well as better, and also no good material , so one should pick out the best from it and only follow that. Does that make sense? I thought all of the quran contains only the best .

What i think this ayah is conveying, "One should listen to what is being said, i mean every body's opinion, but then use your intelligence to evaluate the better/best material and follow it".

It is like , one should listen to every body's opinion but then use your mind and pick out the best advise to derive a course of action.

siki

yay now I get your meaning bravo

I think that it would mean that there are some who listen to the Word (of Allah) and take a different 'road' from it, like beating the wife instead of walking out, leaving her while you calm down, taking the wrong meaning of some words. Although I do agree that Quran should not be inserted where it doesnt SAY Quran, when Allah says Quran He says Quran, when Allah says Word He says Word. Inserting ones own interpretation on a word like that is misleading people to ones own way of thinking, IMO.

siki

Mazhar

salam brother.

Further on this issue, other objections of mine on translating the word as grand quran , or you locking the meaning of "", definite noun, singular, masculine as Grand Qur'aan are,

The arabic word , even if it refers to Allah's word in context of a sentence, should not be translated as "Grand Quran" Because / word of Allah did not come down in the shape of Quran only, the previous scriptures also have it.
Whenever i am propagating something from Quran but am using my own words, either in Arabic or in some other language, technically i am spreading Allah's Not Grand quran, Grand quran consists of a collection of commandments, with specific/ precise Arabic, sent to mankind , via Prophet Mohammad.
So when Allah refers us to Grand Quran, HE uses the word, or , I would even go on to say NOT Even , because can be found in previous scriptures as well.

So Brother, I humbly suggest that you re evaluate your translation of the word in places where you have translated it as "Grand Quran", Because is word (even if it is allah's) , is Kitab, and is Grand Quran. And when Allah chooses to use one of these terms at specific places, it is by design.

peace

siki

siki

siki, Arabic herehttp//www.openburhan.com/

Thanks.

Ayisha

Mazhar

salam brother.

Further on this issue, other objections of mine on translating the word as grand quran , or you locking the meaning of "", definite noun, singular, masculine as Grand Qur'aan are,

The arabic word , even if it refers to Allah's word in context of a sentence, should not be translated as "Grand Quran" Because / word of Allah did not come down in the shape of Quran only, the previous scriptures also have it.
Whenever i am propagating something from Quran but am using my own words, either in Arabic or in some other language, technically i am spreading Allah's Not Grand quran, Grand quran consists of a collection of commandments, with specific/ precise Arabic, sent to mankind , via Prophet Mohammad.
So when Allah refers us to Grand Quran, HE uses the word, or , I would even go on to say NOT Even , because can be found in previous scriptures as well.

So Brother, I humbly suggest that you re evaluate your translation of the word in places where you have translated it as "Grand Quran", Because is word (even if it is allah's) , is Kitab, and is Grand Quran. And when Allah chooses to use one of these terms at specific places, it is by design.

peace

siki

Well said siki bravo