Differences in translation of verse 39:18
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so , above is your reason for translating it as grand quran, should i show you exactly same usage in another ayah?
6-112 We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications
Dear siki,
Why not you please first learn a little Arabic, then try to read and understand. There is no such word in text which means "to inspire in each other", and again neither you understand that here AlQaul cannot be read in isolation since it is part of possessive phrase for which reason it is in genitive case, and again you are putting plural word in translation for a singular Arabic word.
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Dear siki,
Why not you please first learn a little Arabic, then try to read and understand.
where did you learn the arabic from? send me the address and i will oblige
Dear siki,
Why not you please first learn a little Arabic, then try to read and understand. There is no such word in text which means "to inspire in each other",
when i copy and paste a translation , it is just for reference, it does not mean that i agree with everything that the translator has written/translated, so please, you should concentrate only on the issue/word which is under discussion.
could you tell me how do you paste the arbaic ?
what makes al quaol in 6-112 plural? and but does not in 22-24? ( i wish i could paste arabic in both ayahs side by side to show you )
Whats the proof that your underline assertion is correct ,
"For men of even ordinary prudence it would be clear that "", definite noun, singular, masculine refers to Grand Qur'aan"
As usual you have resorted to Arabic grammar intimidation method completely ignoring my logic regarding sense of the sentence that it conveys if we replace the word with grand quran. Kindly discuss it in a manner which i/everybody can understand/grasp.
I shall repeat my objection down below.
39-18 The ones who listen to what is being said,(word) or ,(grand quran) then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
If we replace the "word, or what is being said "with grand quran, the sense becomes,
That you should examine/listen to grand quran then follow the best out of it , It means that quran contains , the best , as well as better, and also no good material , so one should pick out the best from it and only follow that. Does that make sense? I thought all of the quran contains only the best .
What i think this ayah is conveying, "One should listen to what is being said, i mean every body's opinion, but then use your intelligence to evaluate the better/best material and follow it".
It is like , one should listen to every body's opinion but then use your mind and pick out the best advise to derive a course of action.
siki
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where did you learn the arabic from? send me the address and i will oblige
when i copy and paste a translation , it is just for reference, it does not mean that i agree with everything that the translator has written/translated, so please, you should concentrate only on the issue/word which is under discussion.
could you tell me how do you paste the arbaic ?
what makes al quaol in 6-112 plural? and but does not in 22-24? ( i wish i could paste arabic in both ayahs side by side to show you )
Whats the proof that your underline assertion is correct ,
"For men of even ordinary prudence it would be clear that "", definite noun, singular, masculine refers to Grand Qur'aan"
As usual you have resorted to Arabic grammar intimidation method completely ignoring my logic regarding sense of the sentence that it conveys if we replace the word with grand quran. Kindly discuss it in a manner which i/everybody can understand/grasp.
I shall repeat my objection down below.
39-18 The ones who listen to what is being said,(word) or ,(grand quran) then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
If we replace the "word, or what is being said "with grand quran, the sense becomes,
That you should examine/listen to grand quran then follow the best out of it , It means that quran contains , the best , as well as better, and also no good material , so one should pick out the best from it and only follow that. Does that make sense? I thought all of the quran contains only the best .
What i think this ayah is conveying, "One should listen to what is being said, i mean every body's opinion, but then use your intelligence to evaluate the better/best material and follow it".
It is like , one should listen to every body's opinion but then use your mind and pick out the best advise to derive a course of action.
siki
yay now I get your meaning bravo
I think that it would mean that there are some who listen to the Word (of Allah) and take a different 'road' from it, like beating the wife instead of walking out, leaving her while you calm down, taking the wrong meaning of some words. Although I do agree that Quran should not be inserted where it doesnt SAY Quran, when Allah says Quran He says Quran, when Allah says Word He says Word. Inserting ones own interpretation on a word like that is misleading people to ones own way of thinking, IMO.
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Mazhar
salam brother.
Further on this issue, other objections of mine on translating the word as grand quran , or you locking the meaning of "", definite noun, singular, masculine as Grand Qur'aan are,
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The arabic word , even if it refers to Allah's word in context of a sentence, should not be translated as "Grand Quran" Because / word of Allah did not come down in the shape of Quran only, the previous scriptures also have it.
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Whenever i am propagating something from Quran but am using my own words, either in Arabic or in some other language, technically i am spreading Allah's Not Grand quran, Grand quran consists of a collection of commandments, with specific/ precise Arabic, sent to mankind , via Prophet Mohammad.
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So when Allah refers us to Grand Quran, HE uses the word, or , I would even go on to say NOT Even , because can be found in previous scriptures as well.
So Brother, I humbly suggest that you re evaluate your translation of the word in places where you have translated it as "Grand Quran", Because is word (even if it is allah's) , is Kitab, and is Grand Quran. And when Allah chooses to use one of these terms at specific places, it is by design.
peace
siki
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Mazhar
salam brother.
Further on this issue, other objections of mine on translating the word as grand quran , or you locking the meaning of "", definite noun, singular, masculine as Grand Qur'aan are,
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The arabic word , even if it refers to Allah's word in context of a sentence, should not be translated as "Grand Quran" Because / word of Allah did not come down in the shape of Quran only, the previous scriptures also have it.
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Whenever i am propagating something from Quran but am using my own words, either in Arabic or in some other language, technically i am spreading Allah's Not Grand quran, Grand quran consists of a collection of commandments, with specific/ precise Arabic, sent to mankind , via Prophet Mohammad.
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So when Allah refers us to Grand Quran, HE uses the word, or , I would even go on to say NOT Even , because can be found in previous scriptures as well.
So Brother, I humbly suggest that you re evaluate your translation of the word in places where you have translated it as "Grand Quran", Because is word (even if it is allah's) , is Kitab, and is Grand Quran. And when Allah chooses to use one of these terms at specific places, it is by design.
peace
siki
Well said siki bravo
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Mazhar
salam brother.
Further on this issue, other objections of mine on translating the word as grand quran , or you locking the meaning of "", definite noun, singular, masculine as Grand Qur'aan are,
-
The arabic word , even if it refers to Allah's word in context of a sentence, should not be translated as "Grand Quran" Because / word of Allah did not come down in the shape of Quran only, the previous scriptures also have it.
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Whenever i am propagating something from Quran but am using my own words, either in Arabic or in some other language, technically i am spreading Allah's Not Grand quran, Grand quran consists of a collection of commandments, with specific/ precise Arabic, sent to mankind , via Prophet Mohammad.
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So when Allah refers us to Grand Quran, HE uses the word, or , I would even go on to say NOT Even , because can be found in previous scriptures as well.
So Brother, I humbly suggest that you re evaluate your translation of the word in places where you have translated it as "Grand Quran", Because is word (even if it is allah's) , is Kitab, and is Grand Quran. And when Allah chooses to use one of these terms at specific places, it is by design.
peace
siki
First clarify that have you totally switched over from your earlier stance when you said about number of Ayaat that there "Qaul" means Grand Qur'aan?
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First clarify that have you totally switched over from your earlier stance when you said about number of Ayaat that there "Qaul" means Grand Qur'aan?
wasting time, he has already said "The major issue , " why did you translate the word "Qauoul" in 39-18 as Grand quran " you gave me an example of 28-51, which i proved was irrelevant to the context of this ayah".
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wasting time, he has already said "The major issue , " why did you translate the word "Qauoul" in 39-18 as Grand quran " you gave me an example of 28-51, which i proved was irrelevant to the context of this ayah".
Not wasting time, once at five six places he says about "" it is Qur'aan but here he takes as many many "Qauls" and with absolute stupid insistence even does not see the pronoun attached to the last word about this "", and then the following Ayat which says about having been guided, and guidance is given only through Qur'aan.
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Not wasting time, once at five six places he says about "" it is Qur'aan but here he takes as many many "Qauls" and with absolute stupid insistence even does not see the pronoun attached to the last word about this "", and then the following Ayat which says about having been guided, and guidance is given only through Qur'aan.
in some places it could be Quran depending on context is what he's saying. he is asking you to explain and all you do is wait till after iftar and call him, and everyone else, stupid.
No guidence is NOT given only through Quran, it is given from GOD, so according to your statement now all previous messengers and people had no guidence as they had no Quran!
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in some places it could be Quran depending on context is what he's saying. he is asking you to explain and all you do is wait till after iftar and call him, and everyone else, stupid.
No guidence is NOT given only through Quran, it is given from GOD, so according to your statement now all previous messengers and people had no guidence as they had no Quran!
 The principle for guiding people has all along, in time and space, the same, the Book sent by Allah through the Messengers. Before Qur'aan Toraat and Injeel were source of guidance. Now the GUIDE is the Qur'aan. When I say this does it mean that the earlier people had no guidance?
You seem not interested in rebutting what I have already said as to why that refers to Qur'aan since neither he nor anyone else can deny what is stated in the verse, except escaping the argument by superfluous repetitions.
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The principle for guiding people has all along, in time and space, the same, the Book sent by Allah through the Messengers. Before Qur'aan Toraat and Injeel were source of guidance. Now the GUIDE is the Qur'aan. When I say this does it mean that the earlier people had no guidance?
You seem not interested in rebutting what I have already said as to why that refers to Qur'aan since neither he nor anyone else can deny what is stated in the verse, except escaping the argument by superfluous repetitions.
Quran says those that follow their scripture are not wrong too, so Quran is not defined as their only source of guidence NOW is it.
the point is that you have put Quran where God said WORD and as siki pointed out God says Quran or Word or Book specifically and if He wanted to use Quran he would have. It is not your place to define which He meant when He said Word and you should use what He gave you and not lead people reading it, which you are doing.
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Quran says those that follow their scripture are not wrong too, so Quran is not defined as their only source of guidence NOW is it.
About this false perception of yours, somewhere I had requested you to look at the Arabic text and see whether it is regarding the past times or present times. You seem to have not liked to see the Arabic text of Qur'aan on the subject.
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The principle for guiding people has all along, in time and space, the same, the Book sent by Allah through the Messengers. Before Qur'aan Toraat and Injeel were source of guidance. Now the GUIDE is the Qur'aan. When I say this does it mean that the earlier people had no guidance?
You seem not interested in rebutting what I have already said as to why that refers to Qur'aan since neither he nor anyone else can deny what is stated in the verse, except escaping the argument by superfluous repetitions.
Mazhar
salam brother
It seems as if you are of the opinion, "That Allah mistakenly used the word instead of in all these ayahs, and hence you need to correct this for HIM. It was OK if you mistakenly thought so, but when i have clearly explained you the implication of its usage, your insistence is beyond my comprehension.
I was looking forward to discussing the pended secondary issue, but you seem unable to grasp and move on. kindly re read my reasons for such an objection with open mind, and re evaluate your stance.
peace
siki
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Mazhar
salam brother
It seems as if you are of the opinion, "That Allah mistakenly used the word instead of in all these ayahs, and hence you need to correct this for HIM. It was OK if you mistakenly thought so, but when i have clearly explained you the implication of its usage, your insistence is beyond my comprehension.
I was looking forward to discussing the pended secondary issue, but you seem unable to grasp and move on. kindly re read my reasons for such an objection with open mind, and re evaluate your stance.
peace
siki
Dear Siki, I make another attempt from another angle and with different word, to bring home to you that how Qur'aan is referred without the use of word Qur'aan.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/010.%20Yunus%20alahissalam/Temp%2001%2010.108.gif
You, the Messenger pronounce, "Indeed the Statement of Established Fact/Grand Qur'aan has since come to you people from your Sustainer Lord.
Here is the subject/doer of the verb before it. Who has come to people? the Grand Qur'aan.
And it is the solitary source of guidance to success in hereafter
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/010.%20Yunus%20alahissalam/Temp%2001%2010.108a.gif
Therefore/in response whoever is guided then undoubtedly he guides/leads on the way only for his own self.
Yunis 10108
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Dear Siki, I make another attempt from another angle and with different word, to bring home to you that how Qur'aan is referred without the use of word Qur'aan.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/010.%20Yunus%20alahissalam/Temp%2001%2010.108.gif
You, the Messenger pronounce, "Indeed the Statement of Established Fact/Grand Qur'aan has since come to you people from your Sustainer Lord.
Here is the subject/doer of the verb before it. Who has come to people? the Grand Qur'aan.
And it is the solitary source of guidance to success in hereafter
nope No, Brother,
You cant do this, when Allah uses ,"" or or or for his speech they cant be translated as "Grand Quran" due to reasons that i have listed in my previous posts. Only the word can be translated as Grand Quran.
Down below you will find every translation of 10-108 that i could find , translating the word as truth, NOT a single one has translated it as Quran,
I am sorry that i had to finally summon such a lousy argument in my support , because i strongly believe that purifying divine message is an on going process and majority agreeing on something doesn't mean anything, and somebody can always improve upon it. You could have been the one, but in my opinion your suggested improvement defies reason.
- Muhammad Asad SAY "O mankind! The truth from your Sustainer has now come unto you.
2.M. M. Pickthall Say O mankind! Now hath the Truth from your Lord come unto you.
3.Shakir Say O people! indeed there has come to you the truth from your Lord,
4.Yusuf Ali Say "O ye men! Now Truth hath reached you from your Lord! - Say to them Muhammad "O you people, now has the truth come to you from Allah,
- Say "O people, the truth has come to you from your Lord,
7.Abdel Haleem Say, ?People, the Truth has come to you from your Lord.
8.Abdul Majid Daryabadi Say thou O mankind! the truth hath surely come unto you from your Lord
9.Ahmed Ali Say "You, you the people, the truth had come to you from your Lord,
10.Aisha Bewley Say ?Mankind! the truth has come to you from your Lord.
11.Ali ?nal Say "O humankind! Assuredly there has come to you the truth from your Lord.
12.Ali Quli Qara'i Say, ?O mankind! The truth has already come to you from your Lord.
13.Amatul Rahman Omar Say,O you people! there has come to you the truth from your Lord, 14.Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali Say, O you mankind! The Truth has already come to you from your Lord. 15.Muhammad Sarwar (Muhammad), say, "People, truth has certainly come to you from your Lord. 17.Muhammad Taqi Usmani Say, .O people, the truth has come to you from your Lord. 18.Shabbir Ahmed Say, "O Mankind! Now has come to you the Truth from your Lord. 19.Syed Vickar Ahamed Say "O you men! Now the Truth has reached you from your Lord! 20.Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) Say, "O mankind, the truth has come to you from your Lord, 21.Farook Malik SAY "O mankind! The truth from your Sustainer has now come unto you. 22.Bijan Moeinian Say ?O mankind, the truth has been revealed to you by your Lord. Faridul Haque Say, "O people! The truth * has come to you from your Lord; 23.Hasan Al-Fatih Qaribullah Say 'O people! The truth has come to you from your Lord. 24.Maulana Muhammad Ali Say O people, the Truth has indeed come to you from your Lord; 25.Muhammad Ahmed - Samira Say "O men, the truth has come to you from your Lord, 26.Sher Ali Say,O men, now has the truth come to you from your Lord.
27.Yusuf Ali (org.) Say "O ye men! Now Truth hath reached you from your Lord!
28.Rashad Khalifa Proclaim "O people, the truth has come to you herein from your Lord.
29.Arthur John Arberry Say 'O men, the truth has come to you from your Lord.
30.Edward Henry Palmer Say, 'O ye people! there has come to you the truth from your Lord,
31.George Sale Say, O men, now hath the truth come unto you from your Lord.
32.John Medows Rodwell SAY O men! now hath the truth come unto you from your Lord.
I hate to tell you, that almost same is the case for the word , .Most of the translators have translated it as word/saying , i knew it from day one but i wanted to evaluate your reason for such a modification without a bias, or to put you under undue pressure. From my side I was all ears, waiting for you to come up with reasonable logic in support of your translation.
Should i take above quote of yours as correction of the mistake that i have pointed out?
peace
siki
- Muhammad Asad SAY "O mankind! The truth from your Sustainer has now come unto you.
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You cant do this, when Allah uses ,"" or or or for his speech they cant be translated as "Grand Quran" due to reasons that i have listed in my previous posts. Only the word can be translated as Grand Quran.
Only he understands who listens. First listen carefully. It is not translation, it is referring to Qur'aan. When it is said he is idiot, it is not translation of siki, it is reference to him, it is his description. Al Haqo refers to Qur'aan.
Correction is pointed out with respect to Subject of the verb; there I had earlier taken it as object. The Subject of the Verb is "Alhaqo" and only a stupid like you supported by Ayisa won't get it that it refers to Qur'aan and nothing absolutely nothing else.
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Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 085301 PM
Should i take above quote of yours as correction of the mistake that i have pointed out?
This is the reason that you keep forcing me to call you stupid. Without having compared what I have given the translation on forum and that which is on site, you have taken it to somehwere else, without seeing that I pointed out what is the maistake; Subject of the verb was translated as object of the verb.
Had you read that you would not have done the stupidity of giving translation of so many who have made the same mistake which I have corrected with reference to my own translation. Subject of the verb means who does/performs that act while object of verb is that who receives the action. Al Haqo is in nominative case and is the subject of Ja'a which has suffixed object pronoun "kum"-you people.
And after translating the word and placing slash Grand Qur'aan is mentioned to which the word refers. And if you look at the explanation by above translators you will find they also say it refers to Al-FurQan which again refers to Qur'aan.
Just one
Yusuf Ali with reference The Truth says The Furqan, the Criterion between right and wrong, has been sent to us from Allah. If we accept guidance, it is not as if we confer favours on those who bring us guidance. They suffer unselfishly for us, in order that we may be guided for our own good. On the other hand, if we reject it, it is our own loss. We have a certain amount of free-will, and the responsibility is ours and cannot be shifted to the Prophets sent by Allah. (10.10