a good sunni is
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who exactly coined the word sunni and shia?
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who exactly coined the word sunni and shia?
Peace,
Respect.They did.
This is why I don't see sunnis and shias as muslims in the first place. (not all, just what I have seen and heard!)They changed their name from muslims to sunnis or sunni muslims.
From muslims to shia or shia muslims. No such thing in The Qur'an.They added volumes and volumes of books written by men who cannot be verified nor trusted.
They get all their knowledge from those books and not only do they restrict The Qur'an to others and even themselves, they made it a very known and scary rule that if you don't understand Arabic or if you do not read tafseer or any hadeeth books or even if you don't believe in the authenticity of these, then you cannot possibly understand The Qur'an.They repel themselves and others from The Path of God and from The Qur'an.
May God guide us all.
Peace. -
While you may mock and associate bad/odd things to sunnis, there is such a thing as a "good sunni". One doesn't need to follow the conventions outlined by others to be classified as such.
Agree to that, Sister! My best friend is a Sunni and masha Allah, he is one of the most peaceful, kindest, open-minded person that I have ever known. He follows the hadiths, and he applies logical thinking as to what he believes. So yeah... not all Sunnis are bad, it is more of their actions and beliefs than their labels. If God grants rewards to Christian/Jews/Sabi'ans etc who believe and do righteous deeds, I'm pretty sure the Sunnis will get the same rewards if they truly believe and do good works.
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Agree to that, Sister! My best friend is a Sunni and masha Allah, he is one of the most peaceful, kindest, open-minded person that I have ever known. He follows the hadiths, and he applies logical thinking as to what he believes. So yeah... not all Sunnis are bad, it is more of their actions and beliefs than their labels. If God grants rewards to Christian/Jews/Sabi'ans etc who believe and do righteous deeds, I'm pretty sure the Sunnis will get the same rewards if they truly believe and do good works.
In that case your best friend is indeed a GOOD PERSON but not a GOOD SUNNI.
GOOD PERSON are everywhere! they're being labeled by many things such as but not limited to Christians, Jews, Budhist, Hindus, Infidels, Apostates, Atheists, Agnostics, Ahmadiya, Shiites, Sunnis, Taoist etc..
But if you believed that "GOOD PERSON are everywhere" and they also could earn God's reward in PARADISE, then you're certainly not a GOOD SUNNI.
My own father and mother is a SUNNI, and yes to me they're one of the kindest persons that ever lived!
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A good Sunni is one who lives by Hadiths and dont care about reasoning/Guidance.
Yes definitely they should observe the "SAMINA WA ATONA" (We hear and we obey) attitude upon instructions and opinions from the Ulema.
As in Sunniism there are 3 sources of guidance
- Quran
- Shahih Hadith / Sunna (as recorded by those who are being approved by the Sunni clerics as 'trustworthy' and the stories need also to be authorized by the clerics as "authorized" / "Shahih"
- Ijma Ulema (Cleric's instructions)
Ijma ulema can abrogate your own conscience, Shahih Hadith and Quran while Shahih Hadith can abrogate your own conscience and the Quran, while the Quran can abrogate your own conscience.
Salam / Peace
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Yes definitely they should observe the "SAMINA WA ATONA" (We hear and we obey) attitude upon instructions and opinions from the Ulema.
As in Sunniism there are 3 sources of guidance
- Quran
- Shahih Hadith / Sunna (as recorded by those who are being approved by the Sunni clerics as 'trustworthy' and the stories need also to be authorized by the clerics as "authorized" / "Shahih"
- Ijma Ulema (Cleric's instructions)
Ijma ulema can abrogate your own conscience, Shahih Hadith and Quran while Shahih Hadith can abrogate your own conscience and the Quran, while the Quran can abrogate your own conscience.
Salam / Peace
Peace,
Respect.You mention here that in sunnism there are three sources of guidance and the first is The Qur'an.
The reason I said earlier that sunnis are not muslims is because I have seen with my own eyes how they are going against The Qur'an.
I believe that would also make some of them, those I saw, hypocrites.But, yes, I agree, some sunnies are excelletn and better in almost everything then the others.
I met sunnis who helped me and those that didn't, I have friends sunnis who treat me as a brother and those who make threats to end my life.
People are different and that is one of the beautiful things about Islam - diversity.Glory be to God.
Peace. -
In that case your best friend is indeed a GOOD PERSON but not a GOOD SUNNI.
GOOD PERSON are everywhere! they're being labeled by many things such as but not limited to Christians, Jews, Budhist, Hindus, Infidels, Apostates, Atheists, Agnostics, Ahmadiya, Shiites, Sunnis, Taoist etc..
But if you believed that "GOOD PERSON are everywhere" and they also could earn God's reward in PARADISE, then you're certainly not a GOOD SUNNI.
My own father and mother is a SUNNI, and yes to me they're one of the kindest persons that ever lived!
I like this argument. To know what's a good Sunni, we have to know what is Sunnism, and how's its system.
Just like 'a good Zionist', its meaning could be killing hundred of Palestinians... >D
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I like this argument. To know what's a good Sunni, we have to know what is Sunnism, and how's its system.
Just like 'a good Zionist', its meaning could be killing hundred of Palestinians... >D
Peace,
Respect.Sunnism (through my eyes) is following and obeying the books called sahih hadeeth by Bukhary and Muslim.
Sunnis go first to those book to understand Qur'an, from what I have seen.God knows best.
Peace. -
The origin of the dispute that has divided Islam into two has quite a long history in the religion of God. The earliest mention of it is found among the Jews when they divided into Karaite Jews and Rabbanical Jews and later on with the Christians when they divided into Protestants and Catholics. No matter in what form it has manifested whether among Jews, Muslims or Christians or others the underlying dispute remains essentially the same. Whenever the truth of God was revealed to the people in the form of a revealed book for the purpose of guidance a dispute arose among the believers as to the role of the prophet of God in the religion of God. Therefore the body politic of the believers divided into two with the first one claiming that the role of prophet is essentially that of fallible man who interprets and seeks guidance from the book of God like any other believer. This group stands for the fallibility of the prophet meaning that he was a fallible man like any other. The second group on the other hand claims that the prophet and his successors are of infallible import meaning that they are infallible men in direct communication with God who are not prone to error and therefore their words and deeds are binding upon the believers like the words of the holy book. The dispute can be summarized as essentially the dispute between the fallibles and the infallibles. The fallibles claim that the word of men is subservient to the word of God while the infallibles claim that the word of infallible men is at par with the word of God. Initially the Karaites, Sunnis and the Protestants represented the fallible group who claimed that all men are fallible and therefore their interpretations remained subservient to the book of God. On the other hand the Catholics, Rabbinicals and the Shiites represented the infallibles who claimed that their infallible leaders and their words held sway over the men of God along with the word of God.
Sunnah means the ?way? and is the word that describes that group of Muslims who chose the idea of the fallibility of men over the concept of the infallibility of men while acting upon their religion. The earlier Sunnis looked upon the Quran as the only revelation of God and their interpretations of the same were subservient to the divine message of God. All of this changed with the arrival of Imam Shafi in the Sunni world. Imam Shafi was the first man to propound the idea that the interpretation of the prophet of God (Hadith) was special and of infallible import and therefore should be made at par with the Quran. The earlier Sunni schools of thought were bitterly opposed to him in this endeavor. The word Sunnah represented a process and essentially comprised of the independent reasoning and consensus of the learned men to derive the law from the book of God. The word Sunnah was not synonymous with Hadith at all and the earlier Sunnis opposed Imam Shafi in his attempt to equate the word Hadith with the process known as the Sunnah. To Imam Shafi the word Sunnah simply meant the Hadith that is the Prophet Mohammad?s words and deeds and he set about equating this term with the Hadith in the face of stiff opposition from the Muslims of that time. So the original Sunnah which referred to a process comprising of independent reasoning and consensus gave way to a new meaning in the form of a book containing the supposed words and deeds of the prophet. The original Sunnah also known as the ?Living Sunnah? was a process of independent reasoning and consensus upon the book of God which gave way to a dead ideal Sunnah that was represented by a book known as Hadith. This innovation of Imam Shafi had the effect of turning the Sunnis from a group claiming fallibility of all men to a group which was at par with the others who claimed the infallibility of men. From this time on the body of Sunnism will never be the same.
The phenomenon of Hadith is was and remains an innovation in the Sunni thought perpetrated by those who were driven more to end the schism in Islam by partly accepting one of the core beliefs of the infallible group. While the other party claimed a succession of infallibles the Sunnis limited infallibility to the prophet and his words. Sunnism is indeed in need of dire reform to end the influence of Shafi thought and restore the original infallibility of the book of God and the fallibility of men upon which this group was originally based.
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I like this argument. To know what's a good Sunni, we have to know what is Sunnism, and how's its system.
Just like 'a good Zionist', its meaning could be killing hundred of Palestinians... >D
Sunniism constitutes a 'majority' among "moslem" population.
Just like "Rabbanic Judaism" constitutes a majority among Judaism population.
And "Zionist" among Israelites, although not all Jews are "Rabbanic Judaism" and not all Israelites are Zionists.As thus they (feel) that they own the ISLAM (tm) rights.
Those infidel Ahmadiya, Jainisim, Sufis, Shiites and others are not Islam they are Ahmadiya, Jainism, Sufis and SHiites.When people refer to "Islam" nowadays it actually refers to "Sunniism".
Suniism as thus "Islam" constitute much similarity to "Rabanic Judaism" as shown on this paper
http//www.houseofdavid.ca/isl_jud.htm -
The earliest mention of it is found among the Jews when they divided into Karaite Jews and Rabbanical Jews and later on with the Christians when they divided into Protestants and Catholics.
Corrections,
- Jews and Judaism is not the same, I think you refer to Karaite Judaism and Rabbanical Judaism
- The 'christians' were once considered as 'heretical sect within Judaism, the term "christians" or "messianic people" were actually derogetary terms to label "Those heretics who believed that those bastard Iashua were actually the Messiah". Quite similar to the "ahmadiya" considered as 'heretical sect' within today Sunniism.
- Judaism back then were also divided with myriad of other sects, some of them are Phariseec Judaism, Saducee Judaisn, Essenian Judaism (John the baptist were considered borned within Essenian sects). Among all of those sects the Phariseec were the most organized. Infact I think they're the one who lay the 'foundation of organized religion' in the first place which soon to be followed by (traditional) Christians and Islam (read Sunniism and Shiaism)
- Christians / messianic people started to gain ground over Judaism, and by then the "christians" were already divided into hundreds of small sects. That's why there are need to host 'nicean council' to form a (forced) uniformity within Christianism as Christianism were about to be declared as Roman Empire Official Religion.
- Organized Christian religion divided to two as Roman Empire were divided into Western Roman Empire (Rome) and Eastern Roman Empire / Byzantium (Constantinople) this split is still visible right now with Roman Catholic (west) and Orthodox (east) church.
- Catholic and Protestant split happens much later and it's actually a split within Western Christians / Roman Catholic.
- Sunni and Shiite splits were also politically motivated, Sunni were those who follow "Muawiyah ruling" and Shiites were those who follow "Ali Ibn Abi Thaleeb" ruling.
- Sunni and Shiites continue to splites among smaller-smaller sect, notable one are Ahmadiya which considered to be a spin off from Sunniism.
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if a 'good sunni' is one who follows the koran by 'obeying' and 'following' muhammad - help me to understand how anyone can really claim to be a 'good sunni' as we only have snippets of things that muhammad apparently said and did. how about all the things that he said and did that have not been recorded? there are so many hadiths from only one of his wives, aisha. how about khadija, and others? abu huraira followed him around for 2 years but i am sure he wasn't with him 24hrs 7 days - how about the things that muhammad said after or before or when abu huraira wasn't around?
no woman would be considered a 'good sunni' as muhammad was a man. if it is 'sunna' for a man to grow a beard, well how about a woman who also has to 'follow' muhammad? if it is not sunna of the prophet to wear gold, then it is also not sunna of the prophet to be wearing jeans.
it seems 'good sunni' is really a oxymoron if it defines those who follow the hadiths.
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let's first define a bad sunni.A bad sunni is anyone who uses logic and reasoning and studies Koran first ( and if it is difficult to understand), then Handpicks hadith.
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let's first define a bad sunni.A bad sunni is anyone who uses logic and reasoning and studies Koran first ( and if it is difficult to understand), then Handpicks hadith.
And DEAD SUNNI is those who uses logic and reject totally the hadith and dare enough to say it in public.
I revised that DEAD SUNNI is those who dare to challenge even the slightest dogma which being mandated to be mandatory (FARD / WAJIB) by the Sunni clerics, eventhough he/she still believed in the (Sunni version) of the Hadith. Just like these poor folks below..
http//www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/05/31/pakistan-massacre-minority-ahmadis -
if a 'good sunni' is one who follows the koran by 'obeying' and 'following' muhammad - help me to understand how anyone can really claim to be a 'good sunni' as we only have snippets of things that muhammad apparently said and did. how about all the things that he said and did that have not been recorded? there are so many hadiths from only one of his wives, aisha. how about khadija, and others? abu huraira followed him around for 2 years but i am sure he wasn't with him 24hrs 7 days - how about the things that muhammad said after or before or when abu huraira wasn't around?
no woman would be considered a 'good sunni' as muhammad was a man. if it is 'sunna' for a man to grow a beard, well how about a woman who also has to 'follow' muhammad? if it is not sunna of the prophet to wear gold, then it is also not sunna of the prophet to be wearing jeans.
it seems 'good sunni' is really a oxymoron if it defines those who follow the hadiths.
Peace,
Respect.Exactly.
I have also come up with a good question.We all are aware that there is a whole "book" of how to perform ablution and it's inside the summorized sahih hadeeth by Bukhary.
What it interests me, is this if all those people wrote down how messenger Muhammad washed his nose, mouth, neck, arms three times, .... how come there is no hadeeth that says that messenger Muhammad one day performed ablution only according to The Qur'an?I always hear about hadeeth which is added to The Qur'an.
I never hear nor read in those hadeeth that messenger Muhammad did something exactly according to The Qur'an.God knows best.
Peace. -
Just because you don't hear it don't mean it don't exist. what's up with the narrow views of others.. chill out people.
Peace,
Respect.You're right, I should leave the definition of a good sunni to a sunni and take care of my own business.
I did hear sunnis define us here on this forum .....Peace.
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Peace,
Respect.You're right, I should leave the definition of a good sunni to a sunni and take care of my own business.
I did hear sunnis define us here on this forum .....Peace.
Salaam,
Does that mean we should join the "let's label and define" game like them? Like Sarah said, chill.