Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah

Mazhar

Quote
065.012
YUSUFALI Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.
that one makes sense in that its not saying 7 earths but relating to firmaments

There is no mention of Firmament or Successive Layers in Arabic text here, and the word Skies does not mean firmaments.

And for explanation purposes I have put the information quoted elsewhere in the parentheses as to how One Sky was stretched into seven layers-one above the other. And there is a preposition in the Arabic Text of the Ayat before the word "Earth" which reminds the reader/listener to locate or recall how Skies were formed. Preposition "Min" tells us Earth was stretched downwards into seven layers in the like manner of Skies.

Raaajah

Ayisha

what is ad-hominums

It was ad hominems, well this is the only thing you are good at, to point out spelling mistakes. Thank you.

Regarding your issue with translation of earth being in equal numbers

Ayisha

raj, Allah did not create 7 Earths. Where are you getting your rediculous illogical translations from?

Can you show me a single verse for your big mouthing "Allah did not create 7 earths".
And it is ridiculous.

But later on when you understood your non sense

Ayisha

Then I wonder at his understanding ofthe verse in choosing that particular translation or whether there was some ulterior motive behind it.

and at last to Mazhar

I agree with yours as you have understood there are not 7 earths but seven 'layers' of the one earth

First of all, that does not makes any difference, in the conversation going on, weather their are 7 earths or not, still their are many worlds, with life in it according to Quran.
Second if you have any prove that their are is no other Earth alike in the Universe, please inform me.
Thirdly you can just show me a Ayat, that Allah has not or cannot create 7 earths, as you claim above.

Ayisha

Does Muhammed go to Mars, Venus, Pluto and other 'worlds' to preach the message? does this say 'are there other worlds? NO it asks ABOUT those other worlds
3.108, does this verse mean that Allah wants Muhammed to go and recite His words to other planets? does this say 'are there other worlds? NO it asks ABOUT those other worlds
3.96 is the House built at mecca (Bacca) also on other planets as it says its for 'the worlds' too or do the aliens from other worlds visit earth to do hajj? does this say 'are there other worlds? NO it asks ABOUT those other worlds
6.90, 12104, Quran is a reminder for 'the worlds' so do they read it in Arabic or is it translated into Martian, Venusian etc for them? does this say 'are there other worlds? NO it asks ABOUT those other worlds

Are you serious? I think I should have not commented to this senseless repetition of yours, but since you are trying to mock Allah's Ayats, I had to.

I have clearly told you from the book of Allah, Yes there are other worlds, with Life in it. Various Ayats posted above are prove for that. And for the living creatures in these Worlds, Allah sends, his Message, and surely through Messengers, Also proven through Quran in previous posts. Allah Inspires Jinn to listen the Quran, therefore, these others creatures might come to messengers or Messengers may go to them. It is that You or I cannot perceive.
Your and mine knowledge depends on scientific discoveries regarding, moon, and few other planets, but that is not All the worlds of Allah.
Since you agree that Other Worlds exist, then from Quran you must also believe that in these other worlds, the Command of Allah flows, How is not for me and you to comprehend, but surely through messengers.

Ayisha

wow we have moved forward have we? Now you agree that there were other messengers sent 'for all the worlds' and not just Muhammed as you first claimed, well done raj

Can you show me, where did I said, not other messengers are sent for all the worlds? It is just because you don't read what others write.

Praise be to Allah, the Rab of all the worlds 12
and this Allah who is Rab of All the worlds sends different Messengers, including Muhammad (not all messengers), to all the worlds,

Now when he sends different Messengers for all the Worlds, then Why Muhammad is preferred in eyes of Allah, over others,

Allah took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."

and in the very next Ayat Allah Warns

Those who reject this are the evil ones.

and to further of your dismay Allah tells us in 5710

None from amongst you, the living people, is equal with the one who spent before the conquest and confronted war; than all the people who spent afterwards in time and space and confronted war.
And/though for each and every believer is an appropriate/proportionate promise of Allah.
And Allah is informed/aware of all what acts you are doing.

Therefore with grace of Allah, I have proved with Quranic evidence the following

Messengers are not ordinary human beings
They should be respected and honored
They are not mere post men/part time messengers
The message of Allah, cannot be send through a Donkey
Allah prefers some Messengers over others
Muhammad peace is upon him is the most preferred Messenger in eyes of Allah, in all the messengers he has mentioned in Quran.
However we(believers) should not make any distinction among the Messengers.

And during a part of the night wake up for its recitation - a supererogatory service for thee. It may be that thy Lord will raise thee to an exalted station.

The promise of Allah cannot be false.

We exalted you to an honorable position.

And We have raised your remembrance
944

Praise be to Allah

Mazhar

The message of Allah, cannot be send through a Donkey

Evidence?

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/012.%20Yusuf%20alahissalam/temp%20312.101.gif
And We did not send before you, the Messenger , except men, to whom We communicated
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/012.%20Yusuf%20alahissalam/12.109.gif
from the residents of the cities.

Surat-12

Ayisha

Ayisha
It was ad hominems, well this is the only thing you are good at, to point out spelling mistakes. Thank you.

Regarding your issue with translation of earth being in equal numbers

Ayisha
Can you show me a single verse for your big mouthing "Allah did not create 7 earths".
And it is ridiculous.
No, I cant find one saying we can use computers or mobile phones either, can you?

But later on when you understood your non sense
no when I understood yours.

and at last to Mazhar
First of all, that does not makes any difference, in the conversation going on, weather their are 7 earths or not, still their are many worlds, with life in it according to Quran.
sorry did I miss the verse saying there IS life on other planets? You claimed before there wasnt.

Second if you have any prove that their are is no other Earth alike in the Universe, please inform me.
Thirdly you can just show me a Ayat, that Allah has not or cannot create 7 earths, as you claim above.
someone needs to explain things to you but i am out of explanations on this 'deep' subject of aliens and 7 earths.

Ayisha
Are you serious? I think I should have not commented to this senseless repetition of yours, but since you are trying to mock Allah's Ayats, I had to.
i am not mocking and I would still like answers but I wont hold my breath

I have clearly told you from the book of Allah, Yes there are other worlds, with Life in it. Various Ayats posted above are prove for that.

Where do they say there is life on them? I have not disputed that there are other worlds, I keep telling you that

And for the living creatures in these Worlds, Allah sends, his Message, and surely through Messengers, Also proven through Quran in previous posts. Allah Inspires Jinn to listen the Quran, therefore, these others creatures might come to messengers or Messengers may go to them. It is that You or I cannot perceive.
In other words you are inventing things and babbling and you really have no idea at all.

Your and mine knowledge depends on scientific discoveries regarding, moon, and few other planets, but that is not All the worlds of Allah.
i know its not

Since you agree that Other Worlds exist, then from Quran you must also believe that in these other worlds, the Command of Allah flows, How is not for me and you to comprehend, but surely through messengers.
no not through messengers but through the command of Allah. If there is no apparent life form on these planets that speaks arabic then not much point in Muhammed visiting, if thats what you claim he did/does, which is why I asked about language in my question you cant answer

Ayisha
Can you show me, where did I said, not other messengers are sent for all the worlds? It is just because you don't read what others write.
you have claimed that for pages and pages not the Muhammed is THE GREATEST AND BEST because he AlONE was sent to all 'the worlds', now are you changing your mind?

Now when he sends different Messengers for all the Worlds, then Why Muhammad is preferred in eyes of Allah, over others,

Allah took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."

and in the very next Ayat Allah Warns

Those who reject this are the evil ones.
which word means Allah preferred Muhammed over all his messengers?

and to further of your dismay Allah tells us in 5710
i am not dismayed at any of Allahs words, just by some peoples translations and understanding of them

None from amongst you, the living people, is equal with the one who spent before the conquest and confronted war; than all the people who spent afterwards in time and space and confronted war.
And/though for each and every believer is an appropriate/proportionate promise of Allah.
And Allah is informed/aware of all what acts you are doing.

So this is not to do with spending in the cause of Allah or fighting in the cause of Allah then? Please explain why this verse makes Muahmmed 'prefered' over all other messengers.

Therefore with grace of Allah, I have proved with Quranic evidence the following

Messengers are not ordinary human beings
They should be respected and honored
They are not mere post men
The message of Allah, cannot be send through a Donkey
Allah prefers some Messengers over others
Muhammad peace is upon him is the most preferred Messenger in eyes of Allah, in all the messengers he has mentioned in Quran.
However we(believers) should not make any distinction among the Messengers.

well raj if you think you really have proved all that then well done! However, how can you say in one sentence that WE should praise Muhammed as he is most prefered over all messengers but then finally agree WE should not make any distinction among them, you are contradicting yourself yet again.

And during a part of the night wake up for its recitation - a supererogatory service for thee. It may be that thy Lord will raise thee to an exalted station.

Is that directed ONLY for Muhammed or is it for all of us?

The promise of Allah cannot be false.
i have never said it could be

We exalted you to an honorable position.

And We have raised your remembrance
944

Praise be to Allah

hallelujah!

Ayisha

Evidence?

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/012.%20Yusuf%20alahissalam/temp%20312.101.gif
And We did not send before you, the Messenger , except men, to whom We communicated
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/012.%20Yusuf%20alahissalam/12.109.gif
from the residents of the cities.

Surat-12

That is evidence for did not, it is no evidence for cannot. Personally I believe that Allah can do anything he wants.

Raaajah

I will not touch which is mere repetition and babbling on your part. However anything new

And during a part of the night wake up for its recitation - a supererogatory service for thee. It may be that thy Lord will raise thee to an exalted station.
Is that directed ONLY for Muhammed or is it for all of us?

You have Quran with you, read it for yourself. For me it is very clear.

in other words you are inventing things and babbling and you really have no idea at all
.

Ayisha
Can you show me a single verse for your big mouthing "Allah did not create 7 earths".
And it is ridiculous.
No, I cant find one saying we can use computers or mobile phones either, can you?

You have provide answer to your own nonsense. This is book of Signs and signs are clear for believers.

sorry did I miss the verse saying there IS life on other planets? You claimed before there wasnt.

Just read before you post, is my advise. And if you have a claim back it up with evidence.

Where do they say there is life on them? I have not disputed that there are other worlds, I keep telling you that

Just scroll back and read it again.

you have claimed that for pages and pages not the Muhammed is THE GREATEST AND BEST because he AlONE was sent to all 'the worlds', now are you changing your mind?

Just read before you post, is my advise. And if you have a claim back it up with evidence. And still I say Muhammad is the greatest in eyes of Allah.

Now when he sends different Messengers for all the Worlds, then Why Muhammad is preferred in eyes of Allah, over others,

Allah took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."
and in the very next Ayat Allah Warns
Those who reject this are the evil ones.
which word means Allah preferred Muhammed over all his messengers?

They all should believe in him and support him
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat3_files/3_81.gif

in the very next verse Allah says "Then those who do not believe after this, they are the Faasiqoon"

Imagine it is not an ordinary assembly, it is All the Chosen one's gathered by Allah, for one purpose, to witness the Coming of His Exalted Messenger, to believe in him and to support him. Allah Ho Akbar. No such a gathering is witnessed in anywhere else.

Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things.

None from amongst you, the living people, is equal with the one who spent before the conquest and confronted war; than all the people who spent afterwards in time and space and confronted war.
And/though for each and every believer is an appropriate/proportionate promise of Allah.
And Allah is informed/aware of all what acts you are doing.

So this is not to do with spending in the cause of Allah or fighting in the cause of Allah then? Please explain why this verse makes Muahmmed 'prefered' over all other messengers

It is the book of signs and as you have admitted for yourself that

I cant find one saying we can use computers or mobile phones either, can you?

but these clear signs are for those who believe, If none of the living people can be Equal to the Companions of Muhammad Peace is upon him, What to say about Muhammad (PIUH) himself, leave the arrogance and admit that Muhammad peace is upon him has a very high rank in the eyes of Allah, the highest amongst messengers mentioned in Quran.

Ayisha

That is evidence for did not, it is no evidence for cannot. Personally I believe that Allah can do anything he wants

But he cannot send a Donkey as a Messenger, as you claim, because Allah does nothing against his set system. Repent Ayisha it is nothing personal.

Mazhar

That is evidence for did not, it is no evidence for cannot. Personally I believe that Allah can do anything he wants.

There is no denying that Allah can do what ever He desires and decides. But you should not attribute and include doing apparently irrational things in the context of being capable of doing anything. Sending of the Message has already come to an end. And it is told that before this Last Message also in all times and space Message was sent to Men and not to animals, trees and all others you quoted. So it stands exlcuded from everything He wants.

Animal will, on the Last day, talk to those people who are animal like willing to accept the word from anyone.

Ayisha

There is no denying that Allah can do what ever He desires and decides. But you should not attribute and include doing apparently irrational things in the context of being capable of doing anything. Sending of the Message has already come to an end. And it is told that before this Last Message also in all times and space Message was sent to Men and not to animals, trees and all others you quoted. So it stands exlcuded from everything He wants.
peace Above highlights are from me
The comment I made that has you 2 convinced I 'compared' the prophet to a donkey was that I believe in the Message from Allah and if it had come through a donkey I would still believe it. Later I tried to improve your lack of understanding by adding if it had fell off a tree or been written on the side of a mountain I would still believe it (the message). Anyone with a little understanding of what i am saying will see that I believe this message is the Word of God and however it is brought to mankind I will still believe it is the Word of God. you speak of 'apparent irrational' things yet you know that a child is conceived by the joining of a man and a woman yet accept the ' apparently irrational' conception of Mary and also of John conceived by a woman who was barren and a man of great age, I take it you do understand what barren means. Also it is 'apparently irrational' that a stick can change into a snake, but accept that is what happened with Moses. So where God is concerned and what he CAN do, there is nothing that is irrational to Him.

if you agree that Allah can do anything He desires and decides, why are you not correcting your friend on his claim that He cannot? yes the sending of the messages has come to an end but I was not saying, and never have said, it hasnt, nor have I compared any prophet to a donkey, if you cannot see that then there is something very wrong with your comprehension of English and i hope I have been able to clarify this with my repeated discussion on this subject each time I am accused of 'comparing' the messenger to a donkey, and if you refuse to see that then there is something very wrong with your mind and nothing I or anyone says will change that.

Animal will, on the Last day, talk to those people who are animal like willing to accept the word from anyone.
Apparently 'irrational behaviour' wouldnt you say?

peace I pray Allah guide me to the straight path and protect me from falling into idolatry

Mazhar

you speak of 'apparent irrational' things yet you know that a child is conceived by the joining of a man and a woman yet accept the ' apparently irrational' conception of Mary and also of John conceived by a woman who was barren and a man of great age, I take it you do understand what barren means. Also it is 'apparently irrational' that a stick can change into a snake, but accept that is what happened with Moses. So where God is concerned and what he CAN do, there is nothing that is irrational to Him.

Now I think you also need to take a class in English language apart from Arabic, nothwithstanding being born English, since speaking English as a born English and writing a Book in English are two different things with a difference of heaven and Earth.

Saying that I would believe something to be a Message even if it was brought to you by a Donkey or it fell from a tree or was found written on a mountain is called irrational behaviour and in plain straight wards as stupidity. Rational behaviour was of Syeda Maryam and Syedna Zakareiyya alahissalam when they asked how would it happen in such and such circumstances since according to their knowledge of cause and effect it was unprecedented till by that point in time.

Irrational behaviour is of those who say why Message was not sent through Angels and is of those who said why Message has not been sent through some other person(s) and of those who, instead of accepting the elevated position of the Messenger, keep regurgitating that it would have been accepted even if it was sent through donkey, had fallen from a tree or was found written on mountain.

Ayisha

Now I think you also need to take a class in English language apart from Arabic, nothwithstanding being born English, since speaking English as a born English and writing a Book in English are two different things with a difference of heaven and Earth.
I wasn't writing a book, nor am I trying to tell people i have translated God's book more correctly than others have in the past and given MY expanation of it while changing a few meanings here and there, as you have. And believe me, your English is far from perfect enough to attempt to do that anyway, although you may think it is.

Saying that I would believe something to be a Message even if it was brought to you by a Donkey or it fell from a tree or was found written on a mountain is called irrational behaviour and in plain straight wards as stupidity. Rational behaviour was of Syeda Maryam and Syedna Zakareiyya alahissalam when they asked how would it happen in such and such circumstances since according to their knowledge of cause and effect it was unprecedented till by that point in time.

Now go back and read what I said again and maybe if you read a few times you might see I was referring to this message and not to any message as you have misunderstood from skimming my post. The rational behaviour of the above you have mentioned and their knowledge of this being unprecedented at this point in time shows they didnt know much about prophet Moses and what God CAN do, although it was accepted that God can provide mary with sustenance, fortunately we DO know these things at this point in time.

Irrational behaviour is of those who say why Message was not sent through Angels and is of those who said why Message has not been sent through some other person(s) and of those who, instead of accepting the elevated position of the Messenger, keep regurgitating that it would have been accepted even if it was sent through donkey, had fallen from a tree or was found written on mountain.

Again you do not seem to accept the absolute beauty and complete detail of the message itself, even though you claim to read it in the original Arabic. It is the message itself that is proof for me of where it came from and who it came from and that is why I said I would still believe this message if it had fallen off a tree etc. Irrational behaviour is of those that are more inclined to praise and elevate the deliverer of this great message than the message itself and one wonders whether when you were a child you were brainwashed into thinking the box was much more interesting that the item it contained.

My abstaining from answering you didn't last too long as I have prayed to My God Alone in that time and I feel that although it is like banging my head against a wall i have to try and continue to expose what you are doing and correct your misunderstandings/twistings of my posts.

Irrational behaviour is also praying or asking a dead man to ask God for forgiveness for you when it is clear in chapter 1 it is God alone we turn to for help and praying to 'saints' or the dead for help will get you nothing but the fire for idolatry peace

Mazhar

When the Messenger of Allah was physically present and reciting the Message of Allah majority of people kept saying that it has been authored by him and is not from Allah. It is not that they did not understand the Message, the only malice and ill feeling was to accept the greatness and elevated stature of the Person who was chosen to deliver the message. In the like manner, after the physical departure of the Messenger of Allah, people who harbour prejudice and ill feeling against the Personality of the Messenger of Allah, adopt deceptive tactic of advocating that the Message is sufficient and reduce the Messenger of Allah to the level of a container/box, and yet feel they are guided ones.

Ayisha

When the Messenger of Allah was physically present and reciting the Message of Allah majority of people kept saying that it has been authored by him and is not from Allah. It is not that they did not understand the Message, the only malice and ill feeling was to accept the greatness and elevated stature of the Person who was chosen to deliver the message. In the like manner, after the physical departure of the Messenger of Allah, people who harbour prejudice and ill feeling against the Personality of the Messenger of Allah, adopt deceptive tactic of advocating that the Message is sufficient and reduce the Messenger of Allah to the level of a container/box, and yet feel they are guided ones.

yes i know that and you have decided that i am the same as these people, fine, you will have to answer to Allah on the day He questions WHY you have decided i am one of these people and He will point out to you everything I HAVE said which you conveniently ignored.

I will remind you that there were also those who to his face accepted him and said we hear and obey but secretly rejected the message behind his back, and Allah knows who they are.

For the last and final time, I do NOT harbour ANY prejudice or ill feeling against the personality of the Messenger of Allah, ANY of them, and ALLAH is my witness to that, what you think is yours to bear.

As for the message being sufficient, I think you may read it in Arabic as you claim, you may even recite it backwards, but if you cannot see that it IS sufficient and that Allah is sufficient, then the message it contains has passed you by completely.

Mazhar

I will remind you that there were also those who to his face accepted him and said we hear and obey but secretly rejected the message behind his back, and Allah knows who they are.

They on visit to him, person to person, said with complete emphasis that we bear witness that "It is certain that you are the Messenger of Allah". But they never bear witness to this fact in public and when others say this they start making hue and cry that people are assoiciating him with Allah. They are therefore liars.

Ayisha

They on visit to him, person to person, said with complete emphasis that we bear witness that "It is certain that you are the Messenger of Allah". But they never bear witness to this fact in public and when others say this they start making hue and cry that people are assoiciating him with Allah. They are therefore liars.

would you kindly provide the verse for this please.

Mazhar

would you kindly provide the verse for this please.

Munifiqeen are being discussed. And what is said about their attitude, it is evident from the entire forum, that they start hue and cry when others bear witness that He is the Messenger of Allah, they allege that people are associating him with Allah and worshipping the Messenger.

Ayisha

Munifiqeen are being discussed. And what is said about their attitude, it is evident from the entire forum, that they start hue and cry when others bear witness that He is the Messenger of Allah, they allege that people are associating him with Allah and worshipping the Messenger.

They on visit to him, person to person, said with complete emphasis that we bear witness that "It is certain that you are the Messenger of Allah". But they never bear witness to this fact in public and when others say this they start making hue and cry that people are assoiciating him with Allah. They are therefore liars.

So there is no verse to back up what you just said and you have invented it or made 'correction' to some verse. Ok thank you peace

Mazhar

So there is no verse to back up what you just said and you have invented it or made 'correction' to some verse. Ok thank you peace

Say loudly thrice confirming and bearing witness simultaneously to these two statements to prove me wrong in my observation about Munifiqeen.

Ayisha

Say loudly thrice confirming and bearing witness simultaneously to these two statements to prove me wrong in my observation about Munifiqeen.

Would that make a verse appear in Quran to back up what you claimed it said?

I have said these statements in this forum, you go search for them then see how you can twist them and no, they didnt make a verse appear in Quran saying what you just claimed it said.

Mazhar

Would that make a verse appear in Quran to back up what you claimed it said?

I have said these statements in this forum, you go search for them then see how you can twist them and no, they didnt make a verse appear in Quran saying what you just claimed it said.

I said this

Say loudly thrice confirming and bearing witness simultaneously to these two statements to prove me wrong in my observation about Munifiqeen.

The above are two statements, not one.

Ayisha

I said this

The above are two statements, not one.

yes i know, i can read them too. But you avoided my question again about you claiming God said something in Quran which He did not. Trying to force me to "Say loudly thrice confirming and bearing witness simultaneously to these two statements to prove me wrong in my observation about Munifiqeen." is not getting away from the fact you claim God said something He clearly did NOT or you would be able to bring the evidence and also, how do you know I didnt 'say loudly thrice' these statements?

The shahada is in 3.18 if you care to look and 2.285 says we make no distinction among messengers, so what you are wanting me to 'say loudly thrice' would be shirk and I am not an idolator. nor do I claim God said something He didnt nor do i 'adjust' His Words or try to attempt to 'correct' Him. peace