Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah
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There is no denying that Allah can do what ever He desires and decides. But you should not attribute and include doing apparently irrational things in the context of being capable of doing anything. Sending of the Message has already come to an end. And it is told that before this Last Message also in all times and space Message was sent to Men and not to animals, trees and all others you quoted. So it stands exlcuded from everything He wants.
peace Above highlights are from me
The comment I made that has you 2 convinced I 'compared' the prophet to a donkey was that I believe in the Message from Allah and if it had come through a donkey I would still believe it. Later I tried to improve your lack of understanding by adding if it had fell off a tree or been written on the side of a mountain I would still believe it (the message). Anyone with a little understanding of what i am saying will see that I believe this message is the Word of God and however it is brought to mankind I will still believe it is the Word of God. you speak of 'apparent irrational' things yet you know that a child is conceived by the joining of a man and a woman yet accept the ' apparently irrational' conception of Mary and also of John conceived by a woman who was barren and a man of great age, I take it you do understand what barren means. Also it is 'apparently irrational' that a stick can change into a snake, but accept that is what happened with Moses. So where God is concerned and what he CAN do, there is nothing that is irrational to Him.if you agree that Allah can do anything He desires and decides, why are you not correcting your friend on his claim that He cannot? yes the sending of the messages has come to an end but I was not saying, and never have said, it hasnt, nor have I compared any prophet to a donkey, if you cannot see that then there is something very wrong with your comprehension of English and i hope I have been able to clarify this with my repeated discussion on this subject each time I am accused of 'comparing' the messenger to a donkey, and if you refuse to see that then there is something very wrong with your mind and nothing I or anyone says will change that.
Animal will, on the Last day, talk to those people who are animal like willing to accept the word from anyone.
Apparently 'irrational behaviour' wouldnt you say?peace I pray Allah guide me to the straight path and protect me from falling into idolatry
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you speak of 'apparent irrational' things yet you know that a child is conceived by the joining of a man and a woman yet accept the ' apparently irrational' conception of Mary and also of John conceived by a woman who was barren and a man of great age, I take it you do understand what barren means. Also it is 'apparently irrational' that a stick can change into a snake, but accept that is what happened with Moses. So where God is concerned and what he CAN do, there is nothing that is irrational to Him.
Now I think you also need to take a class in English language apart from Arabic, nothwithstanding being born English, since speaking English as a born English and writing a Book in English are two different things with a difference of heaven and Earth.
Saying that I would believe something to be a Message even if it was brought to you by a Donkey or it fell from a tree or was found written on a mountain is called irrational behaviour and in plain straight wards as stupidity. Rational behaviour was of Syeda Maryam and Syedna Zakareiyya alahissalam when they asked how would it happen in such and such circumstances since according to their knowledge of cause and effect it was unprecedented till by that point in time.
Irrational behaviour is of those who say why Message was not sent through Angels and is of those who said why Message has not been sent through some other person(s) and of those who, instead of accepting the elevated position of the Messenger, keep regurgitating that it would have been accepted even if it was sent through donkey, had fallen from a tree or was found written on mountain.
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Now I think you also need to take a class in English language apart from Arabic, nothwithstanding being born English, since speaking English as a born English and writing a Book in English are two different things with a difference of heaven and Earth.
I wasn't writing a book, nor am I trying to tell people i have translated God's book more correctly than others have in the past and given MY expanation of it while changing a few meanings here and there, as you have. And believe me, your English is far from perfect enough to attempt to do that anyway, although you may think it is.Saying that I would believe something to be a Message even if it was brought to you by a Donkey or it fell from a tree or was found written on a mountain is called irrational behaviour and in plain straight wards as stupidity. Rational behaviour was of Syeda Maryam and Syedna Zakareiyya alahissalam when they asked how would it happen in such and such circumstances since according to their knowledge of cause and effect it was unprecedented till by that point in time.
Now go back and read what I said again and maybe if you read a few times you might see I was referring to this message and not to any message as you have misunderstood from skimming my post. The rational behaviour of the above you have mentioned and their knowledge of this being unprecedented at this point in time shows they didnt know much about prophet Moses and what God CAN do, although it was accepted that God can provide mary with sustenance, fortunately we DO know these things at this point in time.
Irrational behaviour is of those who say why Message was not sent through Angels and is of those who said why Message has not been sent through some other person(s) and of those who, instead of accepting the elevated position of the Messenger, keep regurgitating that it would have been accepted even if it was sent through donkey, had fallen from a tree or was found written on mountain.
Again you do not seem to accept the absolute beauty and complete detail of the message itself, even though you claim to read it in the original Arabic. It is the message itself that is proof for me of where it came from and who it came from and that is why I said I would still believe this message if it had fallen off a tree etc. Irrational behaviour is of those that are more inclined to praise and elevate the deliverer of this great message than the message itself and one wonders whether when you were a child you were brainwashed into thinking the box was much more interesting that the item it contained.
My abstaining from answering you didn't last too long as I have prayed to My God Alone in that time and I feel that although it is like banging my head against a wall i have to try and continue to expose what you are doing and correct your misunderstandings/twistings of my posts.
Irrational behaviour is also praying or asking a dead man to ask God for forgiveness for you when it is clear in chapter 1 it is God alone we turn to for help and praying to 'saints' or the dead for help will get you nothing but the fire for idolatry peace
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When the Messenger of Allah was physically present and reciting the Message of Allah majority of people kept saying that it has been authored by him and is not from Allah. It is not that they did not understand the Message, the only malice and ill feeling was to accept the greatness and elevated stature of the Person who was chosen to deliver the message. In the like manner, after the physical departure of the Messenger of Allah, people who harbour prejudice and ill feeling against the Personality of the Messenger of Allah, adopt deceptive tactic of advocating that the Message is sufficient and reduce the Messenger of Allah to the level of a container/box, and yet feel they are guided ones.
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When the Messenger of Allah was physically present and reciting the Message of Allah majority of people kept saying that it has been authored by him and is not from Allah. It is not that they did not understand the Message, the only malice and ill feeling was to accept the greatness and elevated stature of the Person who was chosen to deliver the message. In the like manner, after the physical departure of the Messenger of Allah, people who harbour prejudice and ill feeling against the Personality of the Messenger of Allah, adopt deceptive tactic of advocating that the Message is sufficient and reduce the Messenger of Allah to the level of a container/box, and yet feel they are guided ones.
yes i know that and you have decided that i am the same as these people, fine, you will have to answer to Allah on the day He questions WHY you have decided i am one of these people and He will point out to you everything I HAVE said which you conveniently ignored.
I will remind you that there were also those who to his face accepted him and said we hear and obey but secretly rejected the message behind his back, and Allah knows who they are.
For the last and final time, I do NOT harbour ANY prejudice or ill feeling against the personality of the Messenger of Allah, ANY of them, and ALLAH is my witness to that, what you think is yours to bear.
As for the message being sufficient, I think you may read it in Arabic as you claim, you may even recite it backwards, but if you cannot see that it IS sufficient and that Allah is sufficient, then the message it contains has passed you by completely.
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I will remind you that there were also those who to his face accepted him and said we hear and obey but secretly rejected the message behind his back, and Allah knows who they are.
They on visit to him, person to person, said with complete emphasis that we bear witness that "It is certain that you are the Messenger of Allah". But they never bear witness to this fact in public and when others say this they start making hue and cry that people are assoiciating him with Allah. They are therefore liars.
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They on visit to him, person to person, said with complete emphasis that we bear witness that "It is certain that you are the Messenger of Allah". But they never bear witness to this fact in public and when others say this they start making hue and cry that people are assoiciating him with Allah. They are therefore liars.
would you kindly provide the verse for this please.
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would you kindly provide the verse for this please.
Munifiqeen are being discussed. And what is said about their attitude, it is evident from the entire forum, that they start hue and cry when others bear witness that He is the Messenger of Allah, they allege that people are associating him with Allah and worshipping the Messenger.
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Munifiqeen are being discussed. And what is said about their attitude, it is evident from the entire forum, that they start hue and cry when others bear witness that He is the Messenger of Allah, they allege that people are associating him with Allah and worshipping the Messenger.
They on visit to him, person to person, said with complete emphasis that we bear witness that "It is certain that you are the Messenger of Allah". But they never bear witness to this fact in public and when others say this they start making hue and cry that people are assoiciating him with Allah. They are therefore liars.
So there is no verse to back up what you just said and you have invented it or made 'correction' to some verse. Ok thank you peace
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So there is no verse to back up what you just said and you have invented it or made 'correction' to some verse. Ok thank you peace
Say loudly thrice confirming and bearing witness simultaneously to these two statements to prove me wrong in my observation about Munifiqeen.
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Say loudly thrice confirming and bearing witness simultaneously to these two statements to prove me wrong in my observation about Munifiqeen.
Would that make a verse appear in Quran to back up what you claimed it said?
I have said these statements in this forum, you go search for them then see how you can twist them and no, they didnt make a verse appear in Quran saying what you just claimed it said.
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Would that make a verse appear in Quran to back up what you claimed it said?
I have said these statements in this forum, you go search for them then see how you can twist them and no, they didnt make a verse appear in Quran saying what you just claimed it said.
I said this
Say loudly thrice confirming and bearing witness simultaneously to these two statements to prove me wrong in my observation about Munifiqeen.
The above are two statements, not one.
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I said this
The above are two statements, not one.
yes i know, i can read them too. But you avoided my question again about you claiming God said something in Quran which He did not. Trying to force me to "Say loudly thrice confirming and bearing witness simultaneously to these two statements to prove me wrong in my observation about Munifiqeen." is not getting away from the fact you claim God said something He clearly did NOT or you would be able to bring the evidence and also, how do you know I didnt 'say loudly thrice' these statements?
The shahada is in 3.18 if you care to look and 2.285 says we make no distinction among messengers, so what you are wanting me to 'say loudly thrice' would be shirk and I am not an idolator. nor do I claim God said something He didnt nor do i 'adjust' His Words or try to attempt to 'correct' Him. peace
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The shahada is in 3.18 if you care to look and 2.285 says we make no distinction among messengers, so what you are wanting me to 'say loudly thrice' would be shirk and I am not an idolator. nor do I claim God said something He didnt nor do i 'adjust' His Words or try to attempt to 'correct' Him
How come saying that Muhammad(peace is upon him) is Rasul of Allah, has to do something with Shirk?,idolatry?, and making distinction among messengers. Come on Ayisha you are just confirming the fears of Mazhar.
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How come saying that Muhammad(peace is upon him) is Rasul of Allah, has to do something with Shirk?,idolatry?, and making distinction among messengers. Come on Ayisha you are just confirming the fears of Mazhar.
Well if you can't see it raj, then there is no hope for you. It is making a distinction because it mentions one messenger only and I believe in ALL messengers and prophets of God from Adam to Muhammed and I will not distinguish one from another claiming one is 'better than' the rest and making him into some sort of superman who is in my declaration of faith next to God. 3.18, and 2.285 I have given the verses, look them up even Mazhars 2.285 says WE make no distinction among any of His messengers but here he is making a clear distinction.
I have said it numerous times on here anyway and I am not responsible for Mazhars fears, Mazhar shoud fear Allah more for claiming He said things He didnt and Mazhar being unable to back it up, yet again. How many is that now I wonder? Mazhar has declared me munafiq anyway, so he can live with that and his fears, Allah knows.
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Salaamun dear brothers and sisters in Islam,
Please allow to say something and please excuse my poor English.
Laa Ilaaha illaAllah is an Aayat of AlQuraan/The Book of Allah
Mohammedu AlRasool Allah is also an Aayat of AlQuraan/The Book of Allah
We have to believe and accept both the aayaats, but IMHO we have not right to join or separate any of the aayaats of our choice. Allah would have send these two aayaats together if it has to.
Secondly, when we believe that Mohammed is a Messenger of Allah, does it need parroting? If so, then our Shahadah or Kalima should be
Laa Ilaaha IllaAllahu Mohammedu AlRasool Allah, Eisa AlRasool Allah, Moosa AlRasool Allah, etc... Cause we not only believe in Mohamed being a Messenger of Allah but we also believe that others as well. So, why not parrot there names too whenever we say Laa Ilaaha IllaAllah ???
I believe that every person who believe in Allah alone and His Book alone does respect Prophet Mohammed. Infact, they have to as a Messenger of Allah.
But... also I would like to add 2165 in regards to the subject of this thread.
2165
2165 And from among the people are some who take other than Allah as equals to Him, they love them as they love Allah; but those who believe love Allah more strongly; and when those who were wicked see the retribution, they will see that all power belongs to Allah, and that Allah is severe in retribution.
I hope you understand what I said.
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.
Mohammed M. Khan
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Salaam
MM khan,
Secondly, when we believe that Mohammed is a Messenger of Allah, does it need parroting? If so, then our Shahadah or Kalima should be
Laa Ilaaha IllaAllahu Mohammedu AlRasool Allah, Eisa AlRasool Allah, Moosa AlRasool Allah, etc... Cause we not only believe in Mohamed being a Messenger of Allah but we also believe that others as well. So, why not parrot there names too whenever we say Laa Ilaaha IllaAllahYou are certainly wrong there brother, please read the following Ayat then
Allah took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."
and in the very next Ayat Allah Warns Those who reject this are the evil ones.
So dear Khan, it is quite obvious that when the seal of Prophets has arrived, the promise of Allah has been fulfilled, now all those previous prophets have to believe in him and support him, as they promised to Allah. When they all witness to him then there is no need for us to say Esa Roohullah etc.2165 And from among the people are some who take other than Allah as equals to Him, they love them as they love Allah; but those who believe love Allah more strongly; and when those who were wicked see the retribution, they will see that all power belongs to Allah, and that Allah is severe in retribution.
To post this verse in support of your argument holds no impact at least for those who are discussing this subject, because they DO NOT, repeat do not, take any one as equal or even near equal to Allah, as it is the biggest SHIRK.
For Ayisha all I could say is, Allah Ho Akbar who has created creations of all kinds.
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Some people have taken it from Rashad Khailfa and carried it over, the Verse 2285
and 2.285 says we make no distinction among messengers, so what you are wanting me to 'say loudly thrice' would be shirk and I am not an idolator. nor do I claim God said something He didnt nor do i 'adjust' His Words or try to attempt to 'correct' Him
We have to understand that the mention of Muhammad (PIUH) in the Shahadah is not with the purpose of declaring his supremacy over the other prophets of Allah nor with the purpose of creating a distinction between the various prophets of Allah, but with the sole purpose of declaring that the adherents of Islam - in contrast to all the religions of the world - believe in the one true God and the prophet-hood of Muhammad (PIUH). It is because of the belief in the prophethood of Muhammad (PIUH) that Muslims are prohibited from creating any distinction between the prophets of Allah or of ascribing absolute supremacy to any one of the prophets of God over the others. (Moiz Amjad)
However if Allah has preferred one over others that is his will.
It is also interesting to note that had the Qur'an or Islam prohibited bearing witness regarding the prophethood of Muhammad (PIUH) and had it restricted its followers to testify only about the oneness of God, then the testimony of the hypocrites mentioned in Al-Munafiqoon 63 1 would have been mentioned as an act of outright rejection of Islamic directives, rather than hypocrisy. (Moiz Amjad)
318A is not a statement of the comprehensive testimony of Islam but is, in fact, a testimony of Tawheed - i.e., the oneness of God - which is a part of the comprehensive testimony of Islam.
And where ever it is said of 'associating anything with Allah' in the Ayats of Quran it implies holding someone equal to Allah. It does not, in any way, hinder the combined declaration of the oneness of God and the prophet-hood of Muhammad in the Shahadah, as No one is holding Muhammad PIUH as equal to Allah as it is the Biggest Shirk.
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Say loudly thrice confirming and bearing witness simultaneously to these two statements to prove me wrong in my observation about Munifiqeen.
Now please carefully see the psyche and attitude and conduct of the Munifiqeen
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.08a.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.08b.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.08c.gifAnd amongst the particular (in those days, Jew) people, there are those who, falsely and deceptively proclaim, "We have accepted the belief in Allah and the Last Day". And the fact is that they are certainly not the believers.
Word by Word Analysis 208
They are not saying/proclaiming this to the walls and mountained. They are saying this to True Believers. This does not contain their pronouncement about believing in Muhammad the Messenger of Allah.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.1p.gif
When the Muna'fi'qoon had come to you, the Messenger Muhammad they orally said,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.1q.gif
"We bear witness that indeed you are certainly the Messenger of Allah"Surat Al Munafiqoon
This is typical behaviour of Munifiqeen. Before believers they do not testify their belief in Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam being the Messenger of Allah alongwith their so called proclamation of belief in Allah and the last day. And when they called in privacy upon the Messenger Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam there they with all force of emphasis said about the Messenger without stating belief in Allah and the Last Day. Allah straightaway declared them as Liars.
The throats of Munifqeen get choked for pronouncing these two undeniable facts simultaneously before people.
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Now please carefully see the psyche and attitude and conduct of the Munifiqeen
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.08a.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.08b.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.08c.gifAnd amongst the particular (in those days, Jew) people, there are those who, falsely and deceptively proclaim, "We have accepted the belief in Allah and the Last Day". And the fact is that they are certainly not the believers.
Word by Word Analysis 208
They are not saying/proclaiming this to the walls and mountained. They are saying this to True Believers. This does not contain their pronouncement about believing in Muhammad the Messenger of Allah.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.1p.gif
When the Muna'fi'qoon had come to you, the Messenger Muhammad they orally said,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.1q.gif
"We bear witness that indeed you are certainly the Messenger of Allah"Surat Al Munafiqoon
This is typical behaviour of Munifiqeen. Before believers they do not testify their belief in Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam being the Messenger of Allah alongwith their so called proclamation of belief in Allah and the last day. And when they called in privacy upon the Messenger Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam there they with all force of emphasis said about the Messenger without stating belief in Allah and the Last Day. Allah straightaway declared them as Liars.
The throats of Munifqeen get choked for pronouncing these two undeniable facts simultaneously before people.
Now please carefully see the psyche and attitude and conduct of the Munifiqeen
When the Muna'fi'qoon had come to you, the Messenger Muhammad, they orally said
"We bear witness that indeed you are certainly the Messenger of Allah"
..alongwith their so called proclamation of belief in Allah and the last day.
And when they called in privacy upon the Messenger Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam there they with all force of emphasis said about the Messenger without stating belief in Allah and the Last Day. Allah straightaway declared them as Liars.
The throats of Munifqeen get choked for pronouncing these two undeniable facts simultaneously before people.
you have just declared yourself Munafiq Mazhar, well done