The Night of Decree is the 27th day of the 9th moon: Incontrovertible proof

ayman

Peace Pierre,

As you can see in the verse, God does not detail the names of all months, because he knows we know.
I said in my previous post that it is an undisputable fact Quran was revealed during Ramadan. It is the only name of month mentioned by name in Quran. Why ? Because we know.
2183 teaches us that the fast of Ramadan has been in place long before Muhammad.

Your fuzzy statement "because we know" is the real basis of your entire house of cards. May I ask you HOW do you know?

You don't seem to know that your so called Ramadan is dependent upon Shaaban...Muharam and so on. Without those Hijri calendar months and their specific order and sequence and which month and year the calendar started from then there is no Ramadan for you. Are you saying that the god inspired Umar to make the Hijri calendar??

Also, you don't seem to know the simple indisputable fact that there was no such thing as the Hijri calendar before Muhammad.

How do you know anything if you don't even seem to know those simple indisputable facts.

Peace,

Ayman

asubmitter

The author of the book titled 3, available on Kindle and iBooks, also available to read on www.12-3.co.uk, a research into the concept of mind.body and soul, 3 wise monkeys and the 3 Semetic religions.
Producer of the 3 albums, Reflections,Retro and Wizard Music, available to listen on www.soundcloud.com/a-submitter. Electronic, spineless music, ambient and experimental, and quite childish.
The writer of 2 collection of poems, 'Growing in Logic' and 'Water is more precious than gold to people', available on Kindle and soon to be on iBooks. Also available on the official artist page, www.asubmitter.co.uk

To know things by their opposites, submitters are the opposite of warriors, whereas most agree there are ways in which to negotiate and to be peaceful there are others who choose war and selfishness, submitters to the will of God, trust in the Lord God, and know He is Most Gracious and Most Merciful, they practise patience, uphold the truth, and are not attached to the material world, instead they are keen to do right and to please God, they are blessed thankful rather than wicked regretful, if you study young children they seem to fight over everything, but submitters can let go, they realise everything is nothing. They submit to Lord of the universe, who sustains and protects. Muslim is a word which transcends other religions, in that submitters is a condition whereby you are convinced only God possesses power, and have faith in God and the prophecy of the Last Day, and believe in God and the miracles in the present moment, and devote to God and the truth of past. For more information I would recommend the book 3 available online and through Kindle and iBooks.

Peace
Kashif Hussain
A Submitter

6619

salaam Ayman,

Peace Pierre,

Your fuzzy statement "because we know" is the real basis of your entire house of cards. May I ask you HOW do you know?

You don't seem to know that your so called Ramadan is dependent upon Shaaban...Muharam and so on. Without those Hijri calendar months and their specific order and sequence and which month and year the calendar started from then there is no Ramadan for you. Are you saying that the god inspired Umar to make the Hijri calendar??

Also, you don't seem to know the simple indisputable fact that there was no such thing as the Hijri calendar before Muhammad.

How do you know anything if you don't even seem to know those simple indisputable facts.

Peace,

Ayman

God controls everything and you deny it.
God himself acknowldeges the month of Ramadan in Quran. Is Ramadan man made?
Are 12 months man made, when God himself proclaims it in Quran?

Believers before Muhammad fasted in the 9th month, wich God acknowledges as Ramadan.
Even the Bible acknowleges fasting the 9th month (Jeremiah 369).

Now you are provided with a divine system that proves the night of Decree in Quran as the 27th "Night" of the 9th "Moon", still you reject it, out of ego, even it is so logical and makes so much sense. A 10 year old would understand, and you too understand. But it would make you look bad in front of your crowd. and you would have to make a complete U turn on your approach of Islam.

You made your decision So be it.

Peace.

Pierre

WayFinder

Dear 6619,

I have asked this question above and I am asking it again... what makes you think the quran was revealed on that night? Nowhere in the verse does it say or imply it as such. I am not rejecting the idea but i just want to find the origin of this concept... whether it can be showed from quranic verses or not..

WayFinder

Brothers

I found the answer to my own question.. Indeed the Quran tell us that IT has been revealed on a blessed night in 443

'Indeed, We sent it down during a blessed night. Indeed, We were to warn '

There is no argument on this anymore, it is very clear from 442-4 that God is speaking about the Quran.

Therefore, now it fits for me that the IT in the laylatul qadr is eventually pointing to the Quran as well...

Praise God

siki

Brothers

I found the answer to my own question.. Indeed the Quran tell us that IT has been revealed on a blessed night in 443

'Indeed, We sent it down during a blessed night. Indeed, We were to warn '

There is no argument on this anymore, it is very clear from 442-4 that God is speaking about the Quran.

Therefore, now it fits for me that the IT in the laylatul qadr is eventually pointing to the Quran as well...

Praise God

Good job , finding out the missing link.

siki

6619

Salaam dear wayfinder,

Dear 6619,

I have asked this question above and I am asking it again... what makes you think the quran was revealed on that night? Nowhere in the verse does it say or imply it as such. I am not rejecting the idea but i just want to find the origin of this concept... whether it can be showed from quranic verses or not..

You did not read sura 97 and you did not read the article http//www.islamrevolution.org/thenightofdecree.htm

Peace.

ayman

Peace Pierre,

God controls everything and you deny it.

God also controls that people make up lies (see 6112). Should we all start believe in manmade lies such as Hadiths? There is no difference between the 100% manmade Hadiths and the 100% manmade calendar that you are asking us to believe is from the god. Do you really expect us to believe in your silent assumption that the god inspired Umar to invent the Hijri calendar? Is Umar another one of your new messengers now?

God himself acknowldeges the month of Ramadan in Quran. Is Ramadan man made?

Yes. It is an indisputable fact that your so-called Ramadan is 100% manmade because it is 100% based on manmade decisions. The Arabic word "ramadan" that the god selected to describe the timing actually means "scorching heat".

Are 12 months man made, when God himself proclaims it in Quran?

Yes. The Gregorian calendar also has 12 months. Are you saying that January is not manmade?

Believers before Muhammad fasted in the 9th month, wich God acknowledges as Ramadan.
Even the Bible acknowleges fasting the 9th month (Jeremiah 369).

This is 100% meaningless nonsense. There is no "9th month" without month 1 and it is 100% dependent on it. This is indisputable. What is your month 1? Did the god inspire your month 1?

You also keep ignoring the indisputable fact that there was no Hijri calendar prior to Umar. Surely, this is the sign of a weak mind.

Now you are provided with a divine system that proves the night of Decree in Quran as the 27th "Night" of the 9th "Moon", still you reject it, out of ego, even it is so logical and makes so much sense. A 10 year old would understand, and you too understand. But it would make you look bad in front of your crowd. and you would have to make a complete U turn on your approach of Islam.
You made your decision So be it.

Again, when cornered instead of answering to the indisputable facts that your Hijri calendar is 100% arbitrary and manmade and didn't even exist until the time of Umar you hide behind appeals to emotions and fuzzy feely rhetoric without any substance. Deep inside you are just as dogmatic as the biggest bearded Sunni.

Peace,

Ayman

Raaajah

Salaam,
Ayman

This is 100% meaningless nonsense. There is no "9th month" without month 1 and it is 100% dependent on it. This is indisputable. What is your month 1? Did the god inspire your month 1?

Please if you can answer following questions, it will be easier to understand.

Why there was need for Calendars?
What is the calendar inspired by God?
does it exist?
and which country/nation follows it?

Thanks

Mazhar

Brothers

I found the answer to my own question.. Indeed the Quran tell us that IT has been revealed on a blessed night in 443

'Indeed, We sent it down during a blessed night. Indeed, We were to warn '

There is no argument on this anymore, it is very clear from 442-4 that God is speaking about the Quran.

Therefore, now it fits for me that the IT in the laylatul qadr is eventually pointing to the Quran as well...

Praise God

Brother,

You correctly said this. And if you read the next Ayaat you will find the explanation of what is stated about Lailatul Qadr.

And even if you consider the verbal noun of the verb in 9701 it will indicate one time event, as apprintice has said in his post. And pronoun "hu" in the same verb has been used for Qur'aan at 12 places in the Grand Qur'aan.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/044.%20Ad%20Dukhan/44.03.gif
It is a fact that We had descended this Book/Grand Qur'aan during the Night which has been declared/made as of permanence and perpetuation thus blessed one.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/044.%20Ad%20Dukhan/44.04.gif
During that Night each and every matter, which was hitherto a secreted and infolded matter/decision, is made distinctly exposed in isolated manner from each other ,

Surat 44

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/097.%20Al%20Qadr/97.04.gif
during that night, by the Will/permission of Allah, Angels and Gib'raa'eil cause themselves to come down intermittently , with command/ decision/decree on each and every matter/affair;

Surat 97

unknownuser

Peace,

Why there was need for Calendars?

We need calendars to keep track of time, appointments, computers programs and websites running, etc.
Although time is an illusion of our consciousness -- try using that excuse next time you're late for work. lol

What is the calendar inspired by God?
does it exist?

8418
and the moon when it evened/full

891-4
and the dawn
and night ten
and the even and the odd
and the night hence departs

Perhaps 10th night/s refers to that of full moon with 30 and 29 even/odd cycles.

Need to precisely calculate cycles see if there is a repeatable pattern; example

http//i52.tinypic.com/op0i9g.jpg

http//i51.tinypic.com/9abqiq.jpg

http//i54.tinypic.com/28mmn3d.jpg

ayman

Peace Raaajah,

Please if you can answer following questions, it will be easier to understand.
Why there was need for Calendars?

Calendars are manmade tools for keeping track of natural cycles that are important for our lives. For example, useful calendars enable farmers to plan when to plant crops and when to harvest them.

What is the calendar inspired by God?
does it exist?
and which country/nation follows it?

There is no calendar inspired by the god. What the god has made are natural cosmic phenomena. For example, he instructs us about the "salat" (learning connection) at daybreak and after sunset. He doesn't tell us at 5AM and 730PM. While daybreak and sunset are god-given universal markers, 5AM and 730PM are manmade and not universal. They are not always true as daytime and night will be shorter and longer and require modern timekeeping instruments. They also depend on when hour 0 takes place and how many divisions are in a day. The choice of midnight as 0 and the 24 hours divisions is 100% arbitrary and manmade.

The same thing can be said about the Hijri and Gregorian calendars. The choice of month 1 (which all the other months depend on) and the order of the months is 100% arbitrary and manmade. Just as the god has told us about timing within the day using clear signs of sunset and daybreak and not 5AM and 730PM, which depend on arbitrary manmade decisions, he has also told us about the timing of events within the year using clear signs and not Hijri or Gregorian or any other manmade arbitrary calendar. The god has inspired us to use natural cosmic phenomena for timing and for correctly obeying him. This is discussed in details here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0

Also, if you know Arabic you can read the following article

http//www.scribd.com/doc/30298535/%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%8A-%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%84%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%AF%D8%B1

Peace,

Ayman

Raaajah

Aymen

Calendars are manmade tools for keeping track of natural cycles that are important for our lives. For example, useful calendars enable farmers to plan when to plant crops and when to harvest them.

Noon de plume

We need calendars to keep track of time, appointments, computers programs and websites running, etc.

Therefore what i get from these statements is that Calendar is a man made tool to help us.

Aymen

There is no difference between the 100% manmade Hadiths and the 100% manmade calendar that you are asking us to believe is from the god. Do you really expect us to believe in your silent assumption that the god inspired Umar to invent the Hijri calendar? Is Umar another one of your new messengers now?

But after reading the above I am still confused that
Weather inspired by God or not, why should we not take Hijri calendar to mark the month of "Scorching heat"? in absence of God made calendar
Aymen

There is no calendar inspired by the god.

I will study the answers to my questions one by one, and try to understand as this concept is some thing totally contrary to existing or in practice.

May be I can find the answer to my other questions in the thread mentioned.
Aymen

...he has also told us about the timing of events within the year using clear signs and not Hijri or Gregorian or any other manmade arbitrary calendar..

But I have found no aayt in Quran which says that we should not use man made tools which might help us, however may be in this thread I can find out, mentioned by you.

Noon D Plume, so you think that Allah has provided the hints to calendar in Quran, contrary to what Aymen believes that There is no calendar inspired by the god.

ayman

Peace Noon,

8418
and the moon when it evened/full
891-4
and the dawn
and night ten
and the even and the odd
and the night hence departs
Perhaps 10th night/s refers to that of full moon with 30 and 29 even/odd cycles.
Need to precisely calculate cycles see if there is a repeatable pattern; example

I actually experienced 8416-18 this year and it was the most amazing thing.

So I do swear by the redness of dusk.

After sunset when the sky is glowing red

And the night and what it enshrouds.

and the night enshrouds the sky from the opposite direction

And the moon when it becomes symmetric.

from this direction the full symmetric moon appears.

http//i47.tinypic.com/2nqe0yh.jpg

And the moon we have measured in descending stages, until it becomes like an old curved sheath.
We have sent it down in the night of measure.
And do you know what the night of measure is?
The night of measure is better than one thousand full-moons.
The controllers and the spirit come down in it by their lord?s leave in every matter.
It is peaceful until the rising of the dawn.

891-3. By the dawn and ten nights and the even and the odd.

Dawn is the common point so

Night of measure + 10 nights = 11 odd nights marking the 10 even days of fasting.

Putting it all together

http//i51.tinypic.com/96hn5k.jpg

Amazing.

Peace,

Ayman

WayFinder

Bro Ayman

Thanks for sharing your studies... What about the 10 days fasting? Is it meant to be the fasting of Ramadan? That is, 10 days instead of 30?

ayman

Peace brother WayFinder,

Thanks for sharing your studies... What about the 10 days fasting? Is it meant to be the fasting of Ramadan? That is, 10 days instead of 30?

Yes. It is 10 days. The "scorching full-moon" (shahr ramadan) is simply a marker. The verb "shahed" (witnessed) in 2185 is perfect past tense. It is impossible to witness a 30 day period first and then go back in time and fast it.

We are told to fast for a few days in 2183 (few is 3 to 10). We are then told to complete the count in 2185 (completing 3 to 10 is reaching 10). See below (I am not sure if you know Arabic. Please let me know if you would like a translation)

Peace,

Ayman

6619

salaam Wayfinder and all,

Bro Ayman

Thanks for sharing your studies... What about the 10 days fasting? Is it meant to be the fasting of Ramadan? That is, 10 days instead of 30?

I am amazed how gullible people on this website are.

2185 Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed, providing guidance for the people, clear teachings, and the statute book. Those of you who witnessed this month (the new moon appeared, perfect tense, the event belongs now to the past) shall fast therein. Those who are ill or traveling may substitute the same number of other days. GOD wishes for you convenience, not hardship, that you may fulfill your obligations, and to glorify GOD for guiding you, and to express your appreciation.

Out of ego and lack of knowledge, Ayman is trying to reinvent the meaning of words.
"Ramadan" is the month of Ramadan (30 days), the plural of "days" occurs 30 times in Quran, the maximum number of days of fasting.
Unbelievable that people let their lives be destroyed by such an insincere person (Ayman) who utters such nonsense.
Do not let yourselves be impressed by the seemingly scholarly tone of Ayman Look at the facts, they are simple, not twisted.

My advice Leave this website because people who try to reinvent the wheel out of ego will destroy you. If you hang out with them, you become like them.

Follow Quran alone, not Ayman alone.

Peace.

ayman

Peace Pierre,

2185 Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed, providing guidance for the people, clear teachings, and the statute book. Those of you who witnessed this month (the new moon appeared, perfect tense, the event belongs now to the past) shall fast therein. Those who are ill or traveling may substitute the same number of other days. GOD wishes for you convenience, not hardship, that you may fulfill your obligations, and to glorify GOD for guiding you, and to express your appreciation.

How do you know that it is the new moon that we are to witness? and which new moon exactly? Also, the verb witnessed applies to "shahr". Are you now saying that "shahr" means the "new moon"?

Peace,

Ayman

unknownuser

Noon D Plume, so you think that Allah has provided the hints to calendar in Quran, contrary to what Aymen believes that There is no calendar inspired by the god.

Peace Raaajah,

I don't believe in hints rather precise instructions by carefully studying every word and it's exact use and meaning; now if people want to calculate precise times collect them into a handy calendar or whatever they call it, that's up to them.

Peace Ayman,

891-3. By the dawn and ten nights and the even and the odd.

I have a question pertaining to 892 and the exact meaning

1910 three nights
697 seven nights and eight days
892 and? ten

What is the difference when number is written after vs. before the phrase ? ten nights or can it mean tenth night?

WayFinder

Peace brother WayFinder,

Peace,

Thank you for the clarification and it is much appreciated. Since so much corruption has already occurred in the system... It would be no wonder at all if the ramadan as well had been a target in the past and therefore been distorted.. We should be striving and trying to uncover the truth in all these through our studies... May God enlighten us with knowledge.

As for the verses, I have no problem with the 2 verses which were prior to the verse above... The verse above seems to be talking about another context(hence hajj/umrah) which i have yet to understand. And the verse also seems to be a conditional statement which I have highlighted in blue.. and therefore, it does not seem to be a general rule. I would like to get your view on it.

Moreover, why at least 3 terms has been used in relation to the moon which is qamar, hilal/ahillah/shahr... what is your view on this?