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  4. Is Prophet Muhammad?s duty to deliver Quran only?: No

Is Prophet Muhammad?s duty to deliver Quran only?: No

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • W Offline
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    WayFinder
    wrote on last edited by
    #27

    I should disagree, I think it was some kind of direct intervention of controllers at this stage, who probably flashed some kind of reminder to wake him out of seductive daze.

    peace

    I agree with this as well.. Most of the time God will not reveal all the mechanism involve between His will of an event and its occurrence. For example God wanted Musa to come to the sacred place to that He could speak to him... He could have just flashed him to come there... But instead, it was a fire on the mountain who was used to attract Musa to this place... This was part of the divine mechanism which will fit the reality.

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      Raaajah
      wrote on last edited by
      #28

      Wayfinder

      From a quranic perspective, AlKitaab and AlHikmah are regarded as one and not two separate things.

      How?

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        WayFinder
        wrote on last edited by
        #29

        Wayfinder
        How?

        http//c0022506.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/2_231.png

        The word ?bihee? (with it) that appear at the end of the verse, is in the
        singular mode, in other words it describes one thing and not two. For that
        reason the words ?Al-Hekmah? and ?Al-Ketab? must denote one thing and not
        two, unless of course God is making grammatical mistakes!

        The Bihee is not translated by most translators... the translation of bihee is

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          Raaajah
          wrote on last edited by
          #30

          Salaam Way Finder

          What about this How do you see Al-Hikmah here?

          http//www.everyayah.com/data/images_png/2_251.png

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            Raaajah
            wrote on last edited by
            #31

            and this one

            http//www.everyayah.com/data/images_png/2_129.png

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              Raaajah
              wrote on last edited by
              #32

              and this one, I posted them separately so they can be discussed one by one

              http//www.everyayah.com/data/images_png/2_231.png

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                Ayisha
                wrote on last edited by
                #33

                What do you think Al Hikmah is Raj?

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                  Raaajah
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #34

                  What do you think Al Hikmah is Raj?

                  Let us see what way finder has to say? but definitely not same as Al-Kitab, the view of Way finder and certainly two separate things as point of view of GUEST.

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                    Ayisha
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #35

                    Let us see what way finder has to say? but definitely not same as Al-Kitab, the view of Way finder and certainly two separate things as point of view of GUEST.

                    Wayfinder didn't actually say it was same as Al-Kitab though, but if you understood it that way and don't have any opinion you want to share that's ok peace

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                      WayFinder
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #36

                      @Rajaaa

                      Did you check the grammar of the verse I posted? If Both Al-Kitaab and Al-Hikmah are 2 different separate things, then why they are regarded as singular with a pronoun biHEE{with IT} rather than biHIMAA{with THEM}? I think you should be answering this first then we can look at other implications... I hope you will agree to this. Both AlKitaab and AlHikmah are in the same Book.

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                        Raaajah
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #37

                        Way Finder and Ayisha

                        So You are one of those who pick up a verse then stick to it, postmortem it grammatically and linguistically, without referring to other verses of Quran.

                        If you bother to read the verse in which Allah mentions the Hikmah while speaking about Talaaq and a ruling in the religion, without doubt it is made clear that Al-Kitab is the Book and Al-Hikmah is understanding of that book the two are separate things as using of "", makes is further clear so it means that these two the Qur'aan and the Hikmah, may be equal in their status and importance but they are two separate entities.

                        "Our Lord! send among them an Apostle of their own, who shall rehearse Your signs to them and instruct them in the Holy Qur'an (al-Kitab) and wisdom (Hikmah), and sanctify them (yuzakeehim), for You are the Exalted in Might, the Wise."

                        http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=2296

                        we also understand from the following verse and other verses that these two are separate things.

                        "But We had already given the family of Abraham the Scripture and wisdom." Qur'an, 554.

                        Wisdom and Al-Kitab are two separate things.

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                          WayFinder
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #38

                          Way Finder and Ayisha

                          So You are one of those who pick up a verse then stick to it, postmortem it grammatically and linguistically, without referring to other verses of Quran.

                          If you bother to read the verse in which Allah mentions the Hikmah while speaking about Talaaq and a ruling in the religion, without doubt it is made clear that Al-Kitab is the Book and Al-Hikmah is understanding of that book the two are separate things as using of "", makes is further clear so it means that these two the Qur'aan and the Hikmah, may be equal in their status and importance but they are two separate entities.

                          "Our Lord! send among them an Apostle of their own, who shall rehearse Your signs to them and instruct them in the Holy Qur'an (al-Kitab) and wisdom (Hikmah), and sanctify them (yuzakeehim), for You are the Exalted in Might, the Wise."

                          http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=2296

                          we also understand from the following verse and other verses that these two are separate things.

                          "But We had already given the family of Abraham the Scripture and wisdom." Qur'an, 554.

                          Wisdom and Al-Kitab are two separate things.

                          What is the BUT for?

                          Disprove the grammar first.. then we can talk further.

                          None of these 2 are separate.. just an emphasis on one particular aspect of revelation which has to do with legislation/laws hence hikmah/haakim/hukm/hakeem .. All the aspect of the BOOK/revelation which has direct link with laws and legal matters... They are not separate... Unless GOD makes grammatical mistakes of course.

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                            Raaajah
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #39

                            If it is established unanimously that Al Kitab refers to Qur'an (which it is) then it proves that "wisdom" refers to something else. It is perfectly plausible that wisdom is an "attribute" of the Qur'an in specific verses (such as Kitab Al Hikma), but it cannot be so when coupled with "wa" (e.g. kitab wal hikma) which signifies differentiation.

                            Prophet Muhammad Peace is upon him only spoke exact words of the Quran? How would he explain it then? he would probably have to use other words which weren't exact words of the Quran, therefore for sure Al-Kitab and Al-Hikmah are two separate things.

                            You can only have two choice

                            1. The Prophet only read the verbatim text of the Qur'an as it was revealed without explaining it,

                            2. The Prophet read the verbatim text of the Qur'an and also explained it.

                            and hope fully if you read the Quran as a whole you will opt for (2), and if not you may have solid reason for it, other than playing that Grammar, Grammar and NOUN , Pronoun games.

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                              Ayisha
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #40

                              If it is established unanimously that Al Kitab refers to Qur'an (which it is) then it proves that "wisdom" refers to something else. It is perfectly plausible that wisdom is an "attribute" of the Qur'an in specific verses (such as Kitab Al Hikma), but it cannot be so when coupled with "wa" (e.g. kitab wal hikma) which signifies differentiation.

                              Posted by Salman http//www.sunniforum.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-11309.html

                              Prophet Muhammad Peace is upon him only spoke exact words of the Quran? How would he explain it then? he would probably have to use other words which weren't exact words of the Quran, therefore for sure Al-Kitab and Al-Hikmah are two separate things.

                              You can only have two choice

                              1. The Prophet only read the verbatim text of the Qur'an as it was revealed without explaining it,

                              2. The Prophet read the verbatim text of the Qur'an and also explained it.

                              and hope fully if you read the Quran as a whole you will opt for (2), and if not you may have solid reason for it, other than playing that Grammar, Grammar and NOUN , Pronoun games.

                              I opt for 1
                              75.19 Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear)
                              6.105 Thus do we explain the signs by various (symbols) that they may say, "Thou hast taught (us) diligently," and that We may make the matter clear to those who know.
                              7.174 Thus do We explain the signs in detail; and perchance they may turn (unto Us).

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                                Raaajah
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #41

                                Ayisha

                                Posted by Salman http//www.sunniforum.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-11309.html

                                and Salman is 100% correct.

                                Ayisha

                                I opt for 1

                                So you think Allah explained it by himself? or he gave Prophet the Wisdom to explain it?

                                again you have two choices Ayisha.

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                                  Ayisha
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #42

                                  Ayisha
                                  and Salman is 100% correct.
                                  Not according to Allah

                                  Ayisha
                                  So you think Allah explained it by himself? or he gave Prophet the Wisdom to explain it?

                                  again you have two choices Ayisha.

                                  you think Allah lied?

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                                    Raaajah
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #43

                                    Ayisha

                                    Would you like to answer a simple question?

                                    So you think Allah explained it by himself? or he gave Prophet the Wisdom to explain it?

                                    Ayisha

                                    you think Allah lied?

                                    It is You and Way finder who are trying to work on this.
                                    Clearly Allah never Lies.

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                                      Ayisha
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #44

                                      Ayisha

                                      Would you like to answer a simple question?

                                      So you think Allah explained it by himself? or he gave Prophet the Wisdom to explain it?

                                      Ayisha
                                      It is You and Way finder who are trying to work on this.
                                      Clearly Allah never Lies.

                                      6.114 Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

                                      7.52 For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe.
                                      Mazhars translation
                                      And indeed We had brought to them the Messenger with the Book, We had made that Book vividly distinct/demarcated/ isolated/ alienated/crystal clear on the basis of absolute information/knowledge.

                                      41.3 A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic, for people who understand;-

                                      11.1 A. L. R. (This is) a Book, with verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning), further explained in detail,- from One Who is Wise and Well-acquainted (with all things)
                                      Mazhar translation
                                      Afterwards those Aa'ya'at have been compacted/placed in enclave , each has been separated/distinguished/demarcated/isolated/ made distinct and crystal clear by the One Who is eternally the knower of all visible and secreted, Eternally informed and aware;

                                      17.12 We have made the Night and the Day as two (of Our) Signs the Sign of the Night have We obscured, while the Sign of the Day We have made to enlighten you; that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the number and count of the years all things have We explained in detail
                                      Mazhar translation
                                      And each and every bit of knowledge/information/thing We have made it vividly distinct/ demarcated/isolated/alienated/crystal clear, in the manner that each isolated quite distinctly.

                                      The Book IS the explanation, it is fully explained IN the book itself and the BOOK is full of Wisdom.

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                                        WayFinder
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #45

                                        If it is established unanimously that Al Kitab refers to Qur'an (which it is) then it proves that "wisdom" refers to something else. It is perfectly plausible that wisdom is an "attribute" of the Qur'an in specific verses (such as Kitab Al Hikma), but it cannot be so when coupled with "wa" (e.g. kitab wal hikma) which signifies differentiation.

                                        Brother Rajaaaah (sorry if I miss an 'a' )

                                        Focus on the red part... You say differentiation... meaning something different or apart... Therefore, I would not be repeating it again... But there seem to be a grammatical error in that verse right? Why biHEE and not biHIMAA(dual plural)? Unless you disprove this.. you cannot talk about separation or differention..

                                        However, what is more plausible is emphasis... Emphasis is being laid on the Hikmah (hukm/hakeem) aspect of the book as a source of legislation so that the society can be reformed through it and saved from self-destruction through their own concocted biased laws.

                                        Prophet Muhammad Peace is upon him only spoke exact words of the Quran? How would he explain it then? he would probably have to use other words which weren't exact words of the Quran, therefore for sure Al-Kitab and Al-Hikmah are two separate things.

                                        Why would he need to explain the Quran? Was he the author of the Quran or what? It was always God doing all the explanation... From A to Z, wherever and whenever there was a need for it from either the prophet himself or from his audience... this is why you will get dozen of verses from the Quran which ends with such wording or similar

                                        It is always God who did the explanation... If God has explained His ayaat(verses)... then how does one explain something which has already been explained? Let's assume someone buys an appliance and the appliance comes with a manual, fully detailed... do we need someone else to explain the manual to us? What is the use of the manual then? The only problem might be the language of the manual and this is all.. Once you know the language, you will be able to understand the manual and use your appliance as it should be and avoid its misuse... In my example, the appliance is our own lives and the manual are the scriptures.

                                        You can only have two choice

                                        1. The Prophet only read the verbatim text of the Qur'an as it was revealed without explaining it,

                                        This is exactly what he did... As a messenger, he delivered the Book verbatim as he received it... God was speaking through his mouth... At other times, when not delivering the message, he was the prophet... preaching the Book to the people and upholding what was commanded in it.

                                        1. The Prophet read the verbatim text of the Qur'an and also explained it.

                                        Already addressed this above.

                                        and hope fully if you read the Quran as a whole you will opt for (2), and if not you may have solid reason for it, other than playing that Grammar, Grammar and NOUN , Pronoun games.

                                        I opted for one as it sounds more logical to me... the grammar CANNOT suddenly become a game when you have difficulty disproving it to support your views.. hence the grammar becomes the enemy ... common...

                                        This is my current view on the matter... Should not be taken as absolute truth.. Allah knows best.

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                                          WayFinder
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #46

                                          @ Rajaaah

                                          I think this is worth adding.. The quran usually speaks in metaphores and will usually portray events from several different perspective/point of view/perception...

                                          Hence, we have the following verse

                                          http//c0022506.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/18_86.png

                                          Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration) "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness." (Muhsin Khan)

                                          Fools among the people, mainly missionaries will try to convince people that the Quran contains foolishness and that the Quran says the sun sets in a muddy pool of water... However, what they fail to observe is that the Quran is describing the scenery through the eyes/perception of Dhul Qarnain... It was from his perspective.. For example, NONE of us who sits by the seaside at sunset would deny that the sun sets in the SEA, this is how we perceive/see it... But this does not mean the SUN sleeps in the see, the true mechanism is something very different...

                                          Therefore, understanding perception is critical to understanding the Quran. It was always Allah teaching, explaining, prophesizing etc etc through the revelation of the Quran... But FROM THE AUDIENCE perspective/point of view... it was Muhammad(pbuh) who was doing it while the fact is, he was delivering all of these through the Quran...

                                          Similarly, when Moses split the sea... it was Allah doing this, not Moses... But from the point of view of the audience of Moses.. it was as if Moses was doing it... Same for Isa when he raised the dead etc etc... All this is perception... It is the key to understand a lot of quranic passages ACCORDING to me.

                                          Allah knows best

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