Is Prophet Muhammad?s duty to deliver Quran only?: No
-
Ayisha
Not you Raj, of course not you, I was mistakenly thinking I was talkting to someone with half a brain, sorry
What is this word talkting, No dictionary responds to this.
Ayisha
If you look you will see that is what I have been saying raj, its YOU that says Allah did NOT compile it, not me, I KNOW He compiled it because HE SAID SO. YOU don't believe that and think humans did it
If you agree with this, then where is the problem? it becomes very clear that Al-Hikmah and Al-Kitab are two different things, and that is what Guest, Siki and I am are saying. Allah has given Wisdom to different people including all the Messengers to explain the things in his book, on Authority of Allah. Remember Allah says Messenger says nothing of himself...
-
Ayisha
What is this word talkting, No dictionary responds to this.
Apparently my speed is improving, unfortunately my spelling is suffering '(AyishaIf you look you will see that is what I have been saying raj, its YOU that says Allah did NOT compile it, not me, I KNOW He compiled it because HE SAID SO. YOU don't believe that and think humans did it
If you agree with this, then where is the problem? it becomes very clear that Al-Hikmah and Al-Kitab are two different things, and that is what Guest, Siki and I am are saying. Allah has given Wisdom to different people including all the Messengers to explain the things in his book, on Authority of Allah. Remember Allah says Messenger says nothing of himself...
Agree with what? that humans compiled it? no I dont as Allah said HE will.
Hikmah is IN Al-kitab, it is full of it. the problem started when wayfinder quite rightly pointed out the verse that says 'with IT' to show that the Book and Wisdom are one in that regard, as in full of Wisdom and thats when things started being totally misunderstood. You asked before that what is this wisdom and how can others attain that wisdom. After wayfinder posted the verse you then went on a hunt for other verses in what looked like an attempt to prove his verse wrong ??? that is when I asked you the simple question "What do you think Al Hikmah is Raj?" to which you replied let us see what finder has to say and as yet have still refused to answer that question.
-
Peace,
First note... You conveniently manage to disregard the false accusation you made against me (cheating) due to you misunderstanding... So, more pic and choose... Not strange when it comes from you.
Way Finder
I will make it simple for you and me- The Quran was revealed in stages
Agreed
Yes.. I agree and never opposed this idea.
- The verses were revealed according to needs of current audience of that time.
No, not at all times.
Agreed.. I never said it was true for all the verses but most of them was as such.
- At the time of revelation of the verse its placement in the Book was revealed.
This is what I said and understand it as such
The Book took many many years to complete, therefore since it was not completed, there were questions regarding the verses and the Messenger of Allah who was provided the Wisdom from Allah explained those verses to audience.
Where do you get that? When questions were brought to the Messenger, it was God who provide the explanations... Hence we see many verses ending with ...
Other verses starting with
This is how the explanation was brought to the audience... Again, you are totally disregarding my post on perception in which I have explained this. And you dare cry for circular argument! It is just you who is pushing the circular argument all the time. Otherwise, why would I need to repeat myself on and on
For example the name "Rehman" was not familiar to Arabs, Messenger of Allah explained to them who is Ar-Rehman.
Did you just invented this? Why do you make such baseless claims... Ar-Rahmaan as a name existed from pre-islamic times... it is even ENGRAVED in stone in an inscription known as the inscription of Abraha... Do your research before making claims. I will see whether you would be blind on this one in your next reply to me.
From your above statement
Surah 75 is in exact place where it has to be, 74 Surah's before it and 39 after it, according to Allah,
Now Allah tells Muhammad peace is upon him half the way that he should not explain any thing and Allah will do that on his own.How do you know it was 'half the way'? Believe me, either you are not understanding anything from what I told you or you are pretending not to understand... I told you several times, I have no idea when the verse was revealed and no one does either.
Now if you agree that there was a mechanism for that, then you obviously believe that It was Wisdom provided to the Messengers as mentioned in various posts of mine, through which they explained the Ayats of Allah to the audience.
No.. I already gave you the proper verses regarding the mechanism.. The same mechanism which those who did not believe fail to comprehend/understand. You are talking about explanation again.. so please refer back to my post on perception.. it will solve your riddle.
Way Finder
This is very poor reasoning.
If some one tells you "Ayisha had a black eye" what will you understand from this if you will not know the circumstances. And we are talking about a Book that is to change our lives.I convenient gave you clear examples of these verses regarding wives of prophet etc...which you of course... DID NOT SEE.
Well, let me just use same methodology as you did.. Let us look at Surah 10(Yunus)... If you are so CONFIDENT that we NEED what GOD did not record in his Book... then please give me the reason of revelation for the first 20 verses of Surah 10.. Would like to get that from you... Again, I picked this surah at random. Let's see how honest you are in your claims.
Therefore I mentioned a verse to you at random from Quran, which you have conveniently ignored for repeated of times, to tell me what is the purpose of the Ayat without knowing its circumstances.
I do not have to do that because I DO NOT DEPEND/NEED the context of revelation as YOU.. Since it is you who need this... You should be able to explain the above.
You like Ayisha think that some of the Quran is of no use today and was for the past,
so why not remove those verses, they are of no use now.Ok.. then tell me how the verse of not marrying the wives of the prophet applies today... unless you do this.. we cannot talk any further.
I pick and chose from your posts because we don't want to go in circles, right? it is not thing of a kind that you put me to wall or whatever.
In fact You keep on denying simple fact that Allah gives Wisdom to his Messengers and people he chooses.I would hope this was true... but we all know why you pick and choose.. so you do not have to explain yourself... Infact it is this pick and choose itself which is the reason behind the circular arguments. Had you taken time to consider what has been presented to you.. You would not be be constantly pushing the very same thing on and on.
Yu/tee alhikmata man yashao waman yu/ta alhikmata faqad ootiya khayran katheeran wama yaththakkaru illa oloo al-albabi
He bestows wisdom upon whomever He chooses, and whoever attains wisdom, has attained a great bounty. Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.
There is no Al-Kitab here.And there is no hadiths/sunnah either... Moreover, that does not mean each believer will get his own sunnah to be followed for the later generation...
Praise be to Allah the Lord of Abraham, Ram, Musa, Issa, Muhammad, mine and Yours.
Praise be to God.
Peace
- The Quran was revealed in stages
-
@Rajaah and others
Why have most of you disregarded the fact that HIKMAH(from ha-kaf-meem) is more related to legislation, hence the word hukm(law),haakim(judge),hakeem(wise) etc... This has nothing to do with explaining!
Ha-Kaf-Miim = To restrain from, exercise authority, command, give judgment, judge, be wise. To restrain/prevent/withhold a person from acting in an evil or corrupt manner, to judge or give judgement, pass sentence, decide judicially, exercise judicial authority/jurisdiction/rule/dominion/government, order or ordain or decree a thing, to be wise, to be sound in judgement, possess knowledge or science and wisdom, render a thing firm/stable/sound/free from defect or imperfection by the exercise of skill.
So why I am always seeing hikmah linked with explanation?? This does not make any sense.
-
@Rajaah and others
Why have most of you disregarded the fact that HIKMAH(from ha-kaf-meem) is more related to legislation, hence the word hukm(law),haakim(judge),hakeem(wise) etc... This has nothing to do with explaining!
Ha-Kaf-Miim = To restrain from, exercise authority, command, give judgment, judge, be wise. To restrain/prevent/withhold a person from acting in an evil or corrupt manner, to judge or give judgement, pass sentence, decide judicially, exercise judicial authority/jurisdiction/rule/dominion/government, order or ordain or decree a thing, to be wise, to be sound in judgement, possess knowledge or science and wisdom, render a thing firm/stable/sound/free from defect or imperfection by the exercise of skill.
So why I am always seeing hikmah linked with explanation?? This does not make any sense.
Its in the hidden motive of 1 or 2 people that are trying hard NOT to say hadith and sunnah but to get people to agree that there was explanation done by the prophet himself aside from the explained verses from Allah. That is why Raj will never answer my questions regarding where are these explanations and that is also why Mazhar has posted about the most dignified and elevated coming last. Once he gets agreement to his absurd claims he will then tell about the last messenger and that the person agreeing has also agreed Muhammed is the most dignified and elevated of all messengers.
The circular arguments are all that can be used with this motive in mind as they will never answer a straight question with a straight answer, have you not noticed that? It's like making a dog chase his tail until he gives up, then they will claim you agreed on something you never did. peace
-
Sense and logic are not something one would link with Raj or Mazhar though, particularly Raj
Its in the hidden motive of 1 or 2 people that are trying hard NOT to say hadith and sunnah but to get people to agree that there was explanation done by the prophet himself aside from the explained verses from Allah. That is why Raj will never answer my questions regarding where are these explanations and that is also why Mazhar has posted about the most dignified and elevated coming last. Once he gets agreement to his absurd claims he will then tell about the last messenger and that the person agreeing has also agreed Muhammed is the most dignified and elevated of all messengers. Aiysha
Can you quote where I have said this even for once that the Messenger of Allah explained anything himself aside from the explained verses from Allah?
If not will you have moral courage to take the above allegation back?
-
and that is also why Mazhar has posted about the most dignified and elevated coming last. Once he gets agreement to his absurd claims he will then tell about the last messenger and that the person agreeing has also agreed Muhammed is the most dignified and elevated of all messengers. Aiysha
How intelligent, wise, full of senses and logic is Ayisha!
And how naive is she that she has spoken out her heart that had she agreed to a simple proposition, which is observed by so many people around the globe, she will have to agree with another fact "Muhammed is the most dignified and elevated of all messengers". What a "genuine" fear!! This is not called in English dictionary "bias, prejudice, whim, reservation, hatred etc"
-
Can you quote where I have said this even for once that the Messenger of Allah explained anything himself aside from the explained verses from Allah?
can you quote where I said you have?If not will you have moral courage to take the above allegation back?
have you the moral courage to take back the allegation that I said this of you in the first place?
-
can you quote where I said you have?
have you the moral courage to take back the allegation that I said this of you in the first place?So you have never alleged it against me and I incorrectly understood your quote below, if this is so I apologise to have wrongly thought you said this.
Its in the hidden motive of 1 or 2 people that are trying hard NOT to say hadith and sunnah but to get people to agree that there was explanation done by the prophet himself aside from the explained verses from Allah. That is why Raj will never answer my questions regarding where are these explanations and that is also why Mazhar has posted about the most dignified and elevated coming last. Once he gets agreement to his absurd claims he will then tell about the last messenger and that the person agreeing has also agreed Muhammed is the most dignified and elevated of all messengers. Aiysha
-
How intelligent, wise, full of senses and logic is Ayisha!
And how naive is she that she has spoken out her heart that had she agreed to a simple proposition, which is observed by so many people around the globe, she will have to agree with another fact "Muhammed is the most dignified and elevated of all messengers". What a "genuine" fear!! This is not called in English dictionary "bias, prejudice, whim, reservation, hatred etc"
"then they will claim you agreed on something you never did."
and voila there it is!
Sorry Mazhar no I do not agree as I agree with Allah that we make no distinction among any of His messengers. I knew this was your motive in that thread from the first reading and i have been saving this for you
If the most dignified and elevated always comes last, then you would have to agree that Ali was more dignified and elevated a leader of the ummah than Muhammed and caliphs between him and Ali, as Ali was the last caliph peace
-
So you have never alleged it against me and I incorrectly understood your quote below, if this is so I apologise to have wrongly thought you said this.
Apology accepted. The reference to you was in your second post, which I have answered. The above misunderstanding could have been due to guilt in what your motive was in the first place, although you did not say what you said I had accused you of.
-
Apology accepted. The reference to you was in your second post, which I have answered. The above misunderstanding could have been due to guilt in what your motive was in the first place, although you did not say what you said I had accused you of.
So you announce that you had not me in mind as 2 while saying this
Its in the hidden motive of 1 or 2 people that are trying hard NOT to say hadith and sunnah but to get people to agree that there was explanation done by the prophet himself aside from the explained verses from Allah.
-
So you announce that you had not me in mind as 2 while saying this
I have not announced anything, you make the announcements based on what you misunderstand and with your guilt you claimed I said that you had said something which I didnt and you didnt. hypno
-
Ayisha
Sense and logic are not something one would link with Raj or Mazhar though, particularly Raj
Look who is saying that rotfl
Can you quote where I have said this even for once that the Messenger of Allah explained anything himself from verses aside from the Wisdom provided from Allah?
You are a Liar!Mazhar
If not will you have moral courage to take the above allegation back?
Moral courage and Ayisha are two separate things, as are Al-Hikmah and Al-Kitab.
-
Way Finder
Did you just invented this? Why do you make such baseless claims... Ar-Rahmaan as a name existed from pre-islamic times... it is even ENGRAVED in stone in an inscription known as the inscription of Abraha... Do your research before making claims. I will see whether you would be blind on this one in your next reply to me.
Way Finder I think before making big claims, we should check what others wrote.
Did I said that the name Ar-Rehman not existed in pre-Islamic times? show me if I had? I said the audience of Muhammad was not well aware of it.according to Brett Marlowe Stortroen word "Rahmanan" appears in pre-Islamic inscriptions from South Arabia.
It is not Rahmaan.
They audience were surprised why to use name Rehmaan, for the reason i mentioned above,
also even if they knew this name they were not accepting it to be used by Muhammad peace is upon him, as they thought it was a different God Muhammad is talking about in Quran. Therefore Muhammad peace is upon him Explained to them. -
Can you quote where I have said this even for once that the Messenger of Allah explained anything himself from verses aside from the Wisdom provided from Allah?
You are a Liar!No Raj you are a liar
I said "that there was explanation done by the prophet himself aside from the explained verses from Allah."
your post on page 3
"Prophet Muhammad Peace is upon him only spoke exact words of the Quran? How would he explain it then? he would probably have to use other words which weren't exact words of the Quran, therefore for sure Al-Kitab and Al-Hikmah are two separate things.You can only have two choice
-
The Prophet only read the verbatim text of the Qur'an as it was revealed without explaining it,
-
The Prophet read the verbatim text of the Qur'an and also explained it."
another post on page 3
"So you think Allah explained it by himself? or he gave Prophet the Wisdom to explain it?"page 4
"Allah does not come down to earth like JESUS CHRIST to explain each and every thing, he sends Messengers with his Message and gives them WISDOM to explain it. "I said "But Allah says HE has explained it IN the Book itself "
you said "Come on Ayisha I can give you various examples from just this site, let leave the Ummah, where there has been no consensus after debating whole 40 pages.
Allah sent the Quran, he send the Messengers with wisdom to explain them, and we also require Wisdom to understand it."I said "BOOK is full of Wisdom."
you said "Yes, but it requires Wisdom to extract from it. Allah did not came to earth to explain anything, neither was it in BOOK shape, it was revealed step by step in many years bit by bit, and every bit needed explanation, which was done by the Messenger. They did not had intelligent people like you Ayisha that time who, could understand the Quran from Quran itself, in case when it was not revealed as a Whole."
I asked the question that is still unanswered "so where has it been extracted to?"
So you see no one has said that Muhammed did not have Wisdom but you have disagreed that ALLAH explained it IN the book and have insisted that Muhammed FURTHER EXPLAINED the fully explained verses as you disbelieve Allah when He said HE has fully explained them IN the book. muscle
-