Is Prophet Muhammad?s duty to deliver Quran only?: No
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It's not about truth vs. falsehood, it's about practical implementations. Those have to change over time, otherwise faith becomes absurd and not applicable.
For example You don't use camels for transportation although the Qur'an tells us to and although we can safely assume the prophet did. So are you changing God's system or saying that it is outdated? Of course not, you are adapting it to your time and circumstances, which makes perfect sense.
It is about implementation of truthful system or falsehood system.
Did Allah mandate a mode of transportation in His system? In other word did He restrict us to use camel only? Where do you get this idea? Why is it relevant here. -
Dear guest, you were the one that brought the subject up and you are the one that claims a righteous person would say 'i do it this way' etc and you still refuse to say how you do it, so your posts are pretty worthless to this point don't you think?
I was once told by a teacher that there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers, that was a teacher of Islam, how right she was.
I will leave you to think WHY you had to start insulting me instead of just answer the question, that is yours to bear, not mine.
peace
I have already quoted the verse for you. The problem is you don?t comprehend it.
Yes, subsequent question you asked is a stupid question because the answer you are seeking is easily deduced from the cited verse. If I was talking to a minor then I would have said this in addition to the verse
If you wash (hand, face,?) one time you will be compliant to the verse.
If you wash (hand, face,?) two time you will be compliant to the verse
If you wash (hand, face,?) three time you will be compliant to the verse
?..
??See If I answer all your questions, you will look real bad. I am doing you a favor by not answering all your questions. If you wish I can analyze your posts and expose your shortcomings. Do not insist it?s really bad.
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I have just gone through these 16 pages and I have noticed that you and raj have not answered any questions asked of you but both wayfinder and I have answered all yours. You have picked out of our replies and totally ignored the questions asked and have used that we have said to ask more, in the hope that the ones you are ignoring will be forgotten.
peaceThis sound like a defeated person who is bleeding excessively.
??not answered any questions asked of you?? ? dishonest and a liar.
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you have now resorted to nastiness because i pulled you up on one, which you still have not answered. that is your tactics and tricks which are glaringly obvious for anyone reading through this thread which you started in an attempt to claim the hadith are the wisdom outside Quran but you dont have the guts or committment to say it. peace
Your personality is exposed via this statement of yours ??this thread which you started in an attempt to claim the hadith are the wisdom outside Quran but you dont have the guts or committment to say it.? A false accusation indeed!
You are really desperate because your phony system is falling apart. All falsehood will be defeated.
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Peace
In case you are right... Then I would say that this wisdom cannot be transmitted from one person to another... And again... I always attach hikmah to its root meaning as well as other related words such as hukm(law),haakim(judge) etc which has to do with legislation... Therefore, Hikmah, if taken from your perspective could mean 'sound judgement' and this as I think it is, cannot be transmitted... But can be bestowed only from God.
Peace WayFinder,
Root meaning = dictionary meaning (human made).
Was this dictionary authorized by Allah? If not then this dictionary is your hadith.
Therefore, your hadith says Hikmah = Sound judgement.
I do not agree with your hadith.
Allah is the teacher of the Quran. Therefore, you need to defer unresolved issues to Allah for proper resolution. Per Quran, Allah may grant you the resolution or he may grant the understanding to other believer. In this situation you are required to take the definition of the other believer. Otherwise you will be in violation of Quran.
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San to ayisha
See If I answer all your questions, you will look real bad. I am doing you a favor by not answering all your questions. If you wish I can analyze your posts and expose your shortcomings. Do not insist it?s really bad.
Now that was a real one. rotfl
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I have already quoted the verse for you. The problem is you don?t comprehend it.
No, the problem is YOU don't comprehend it and that was in YOUR list of things that are NOT clear in Quran.Yes, subsequent question you asked is a stupid question because the answer you are seeking is easily deduced from the cited verse. If I was talking to a minor then I would have said this in addition to the verse
If you wash (hand, face,?) one time you will be compliant to the verse.
If you wash (hand, face,?) two time you will be compliant to the verse
If you wash (hand, face,?) three time you will be compliant to the verse
?..
??
You still refuse to answer the question relating to why I asked it which was that you put that as one thing that is not clear and needed explaining by Muhammed. and now are making a big fuss so you don't answer it. It is clear, it was clear, so why did YOU put it in the list of unclear that needed explaining?See If I answer all your questions, you will look real bad. I am doing you a favor by not answering all your questions. If you wish I can analyze your posts and expose your shortcomings. Do not insist it?s really bad.
Threats now? Please if your desire is to expose all my shortcomings do it, dont let me stop you, but I will still keep asking you why you put that CLEAR verse as one thing that needed explaining, which it doesnt. So in effect you have proven yourself wrong in what you first said and first started this thread for.
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Your personality is exposed via this statement of yours ??this thread which you started in an attempt to claim the hadith are the wisdom outside Quran but you dont have the guts or committment to say it.? A false accusation indeed!
You are really desperate because your phony system is falling apart. All falsehood will be defeated.
rotfl rotfl really was a false accusation wasn't it, proven by your very next sentense bravo
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Peace WayFinder,
Root meaning = dictionary meaning (human made).
Was this dictionary authorized by Allah? If not then this dictionary is your hadith.
Therefore, your hadith says Hikmah = Sound judgement.
I do not agree with your hadith.
Allah is the teacher of the Quran. Therefore, you need to defer unresolved issues to Allah for proper resolution. Per Quran, Allah may grant you the resolution or he may grant the understanding to other believer. In this situation you are required to take the definition of the other believer. Otherwise you will be in violation of Quran.
Oh Allah.. Now they think language is manmade... because vocabulary of a language is kept in a dictionary... phew.... All this JUST because they are UNABLE to INJECT they own conjecture/concocted concepts into the Quran through a word HIJACK... Unlike hadiths... a word from a dictionary can be verified... in real world... from real people... just need to move in these region/call them/communicate with them.. and they will tell you the meaning of the word... I am sure no one will tell you to call a cat 'Dog' or vice-versa... Failing to understand the root system of the semitic language is a very big hindrance as it definitely affects one understanding to the max. Go back to the phoenician and advance forward chronologically in time in order that you might see how the semitic languages evolved which is a whole world apart from our latin/greek languages and their descendants... Even dictionaries are better than hadiths.. your comparison simply failed.
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You still refuse to answer the question relating to why I asked it which was that you put that as one thing that is not clear and needed explaining by Muhammed. and now are making a big fuss so you don't answer it. It is clear, it was clear, so why did YOU put it in the list of unclear that needed explaining?
I found the culprit for you; this is your free mind translation cheer
56 O you who believe, if you rise to hold the contact prayer, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.
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I found the culprit for you; this is your free mind translation cheer
56 O you who believe, if you rise to hold the contact prayer, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.
Peace
I did not follow this issue very well... could you clarify what is wrong with this translation please?
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I found the culprit for you; this is your free mind translation cheer
56 O you who believe, if you rise to hold the contact prayer, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.
What do you mean 'culprit'? what do you mean 'my' free minds translation? what is this supposed to show me? I have already told you I had not been in that thread nor have I posted that verse translation, so what is your reason for bringing it? ??? this has nothing at all to do with you being unable to say how YOU do wudo or why YOU added this in your list of unclear verses that need to be explained that I have asked you do explain how YOU do. Don't forget that you posted this
"A righteous person would have said this is how I do it and that it consistent with Prophet Muhammad?s way for such and such reason."and you have NOT been able to do that have you and have turned nasty for the ONLY reason that I kept asking you to answer that one question. So, this is another thing you said
"Allah has already exposed you for what you are."
and I think He has certainly exposed you for what you are.
peace
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Peace
I did not follow this issue very well... could you clarify what is wrong with this translation please?
this is in relation to me having to continually ask guest to answer a question, the reply was
"I seem to recall a thread that said wipe the foot and not wash it. It has nothing to do with dry ablution. Your way gives rise to such nonsense. Go follow a leader since you are not one."
I assumed it was suppose to be something that I had said, which it wasn't. Still the question is unanswered
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1955 - He used to enjoin his family to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat); he was acceptable to his Lord.
20132 - You shall enjoin your family to observe the contact prayers (Salat), and steadfastly persevere in doing so. We do not ask you for any provisions; we are the ones who provide for you. The ultimate triumph belongs to the righteous.
The above two verse are easily implemented in preserved salat concept i.e. learning salat by observing our family, neighbor, etc. at a very young age (4,5,?.).
Ayisha,
How would you implement these verses in your system where one has to read Quran first to understand salat. What is that critical age? You might have to make a modern hadith to answer this one.
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1955 - He used to enjoin his family to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat); he was acceptable to his Lord.
20132 - You shall enjoin your family to observe the contact prayers (Salat), and steadfastly persevere in doing so. We do not ask you for any provisions; we are the ones who provide for you. The ultimate triumph belongs to the righteous.
The above two verse are easily implemented in preserved salat concept i.e. learning salat by observing our family, neighbor, etc. at a very young age (4,5,?.).
Ayisha,
How would you implement these verses in your system where one has to read Quran first to understand salat. What is that critical age? You might have to make a modern hadith to answer this one.
Please note that i am again answering your question while still waiting for an answer to mine.
Ismail 'enjoined' his family to observe the salat. Nothing here says he was taught it by his family or that he taught it to them, just that he enjoined on them to do the prayer, he told them to pray. i think you may have misunderstood the word 'observe' there to mean 'to watch'' right? The Arabic doesnt have 'observe' there.
19.31 "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
that is Jesus as a baby, meaning God had told him to do prayer and charity
there is nothing about wtching family or anyone else doing it.
Who said one had to read Quran to pray? The previous prophets didnt read it as far as I know and they prayed by doing what Quran says, bowing, prostrating, face to the floor, imploring, worshipping of course they wouldnt have done the reciting verses of Quran though but what they did was good enough for God.
It would be wise to look at other translations as well as Khalifa, others dont put observe in theirs and if you look at it the way you are doing it's telling you to just watch the prayer and not do it.
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San to ayisha
See If I answer all your questions, you will look real bad. I am doing you a favor by not answering all your questions. If you wish I can analyze your posts and expose your shortcomings. Do not insist it?s really bad.
Now that was a real one. rotfl
What is this if not a misquote? You said you've been here since 2006. Surprised you haven't learned about that "Quote" button at the top right of each post, and this is 2010 already.
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Please note that i am again answering your question while still waiting for an answer to mine.
Ismail 'enjoined' his family to observe the salat. Nothing here says he was taught it by his family or that he taught it to them, just that he enjoined on them to do the prayer, he told them to pray. i think you may have misunderstood the word 'observe' there to mean 'to watch'' right? The Arabic doesnt have 'observe' there.
19.31 "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
that is Jesus as a baby, meaning God had told him to do prayer and charity
there is nothing about wtching family or anyone else doing it.
Who said one had to read Quran to pray? The previous prophets didnt read it as far as I know and they prayed by doing what Quran says, bowing, prostrating, face to the floor, imploring, worshipping of course they wouldnt have done the reciting verses of Quran though but what they did was good enough for God.
It would be wise to look at other translations as well as Khalifa, others dont put observe in theirs and if you look at it the way you are doing it's telling you to just watch the prayer and not do it.
Peace Ayisha,
Your comment (correction) on RK?s translation is noted. Thank you.
From your comment I deduced that you understood the meaning I was trying portray in the verse 20132 i.e. perform the salat.
My question was How would you implement these verses in your system where one has to read Quran first to understand salat. What is that critical age?
You did not answer the question. You did not even comprehend my simple question. Yet you are claiming that you are answering my question. I will take baby steps to bring home the point.
In your system the concept of single leader is unacceptable. Another way of looking at it is everybody is leader. To me this is a chaotic system (satanic) but to you this is a perfect system. You have accepted this satanic system based on your WISDOM.
In your system everything has to be learned from the Quran by the individual and nothing can be passes on. Otherwise you will be advocating hadith, your hadith as opposed to Bukhari.
Under these conditions how can you enjoin salat to your family? I see no means to do it. In other word your system contradicts Quranic verses. Another way of looking at is you are nullifying the Quran by accepting your chaotic system.
There is no concept of preserving the salat in your system. Your chaotic system gives rise to 0, 1, 2, 3, 4?..salat. Which one do you preserve? Even if you preserve one, you cannot pass it on because you don?t accept hadith or transmission via human.
Now as for your comment ?Nothing here says he was taught it by his family or that he taught it to them, just that he enjoined on them to do the prayer, he told them to pray.?
You don?t enjoin something on others (especially your family) if you are not certain about it. Anything contrary to this can only be advocated by your satanic system. It is common sense that Ismail is using preserved salat or that he was taught by Allah. And he is passing it on to his family.
Now as for your comment ?Who said one had to read Quran to pray??
That?s what I have been telling you. Salat is preserve by Allah. We learn to do it without reading the Quran. We learn it via human transmission. No hadith.