Is Prophet Muhammad?s duty to deliver Quran only?: No
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I have already quoted the verse for you. The problem is you don?t comprehend it.
No, the problem is YOU don't comprehend it and that was in YOUR list of things that are NOT clear in Quran.Yes, subsequent question you asked is a stupid question because the answer you are seeking is easily deduced from the cited verse. If I was talking to a minor then I would have said this in addition to the verse
If you wash (hand, face,?) one time you will be compliant to the verse.
If you wash (hand, face,?) two time you will be compliant to the verse
If you wash (hand, face,?) three time you will be compliant to the verse
?..
??
You still refuse to answer the question relating to why I asked it which was that you put that as one thing that is not clear and needed explaining by Muhammed. and now are making a big fuss so you don't answer it. It is clear, it was clear, so why did YOU put it in the list of unclear that needed explaining?See If I answer all your questions, you will look real bad. I am doing you a favor by not answering all your questions. If you wish I can analyze your posts and expose your shortcomings. Do not insist it?s really bad.
Threats now? Please if your desire is to expose all my shortcomings do it, dont let me stop you, but I will still keep asking you why you put that CLEAR verse as one thing that needed explaining, which it doesnt. So in effect you have proven yourself wrong in what you first said and first started this thread for.
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Your personality is exposed via this statement of yours ??this thread which you started in an attempt to claim the hadith are the wisdom outside Quran but you dont have the guts or committment to say it.? A false accusation indeed!
You are really desperate because your phony system is falling apart. All falsehood will be defeated.
rotfl rotfl really was a false accusation wasn't it, proven by your very next sentense bravo
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Peace WayFinder,
Root meaning = dictionary meaning (human made).
Was this dictionary authorized by Allah? If not then this dictionary is your hadith.
Therefore, your hadith says Hikmah = Sound judgement.
I do not agree with your hadith.
Allah is the teacher of the Quran. Therefore, you need to defer unresolved issues to Allah for proper resolution. Per Quran, Allah may grant you the resolution or he may grant the understanding to other believer. In this situation you are required to take the definition of the other believer. Otherwise you will be in violation of Quran.
Oh Allah.. Now they think language is manmade... because vocabulary of a language is kept in a dictionary... phew.... All this JUST because they are UNABLE to INJECT they own conjecture/concocted concepts into the Quran through a word HIJACK... Unlike hadiths... a word from a dictionary can be verified... in real world... from real people... just need to move in these region/call them/communicate with them.. and they will tell you the meaning of the word... I am sure no one will tell you to call a cat 'Dog' or vice-versa... Failing to understand the root system of the semitic language is a very big hindrance as it definitely affects one understanding to the max. Go back to the phoenician and advance forward chronologically in time in order that you might see how the semitic languages evolved which is a whole world apart from our latin/greek languages and their descendants... Even dictionaries are better than hadiths.. your comparison simply failed.
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You still refuse to answer the question relating to why I asked it which was that you put that as one thing that is not clear and needed explaining by Muhammed. and now are making a big fuss so you don't answer it. It is clear, it was clear, so why did YOU put it in the list of unclear that needed explaining?
I found the culprit for you; this is your free mind translation cheer
56 O you who believe, if you rise to hold the contact prayer, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.
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I found the culprit for you; this is your free mind translation cheer
56 O you who believe, if you rise to hold the contact prayer, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.
Peace
I did not follow this issue very well... could you clarify what is wrong with this translation please?
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I found the culprit for you; this is your free mind translation cheer
56 O you who believe, if you rise to hold the contact prayer, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.
What do you mean 'culprit'? what do you mean 'my' free minds translation? what is this supposed to show me? I have already told you I had not been in that thread nor have I posted that verse translation, so what is your reason for bringing it? ??? this has nothing at all to do with you being unable to say how YOU do wudo or why YOU added this in your list of unclear verses that need to be explained that I have asked you do explain how YOU do. Don't forget that you posted this
"A righteous person would have said this is how I do it and that it consistent with Prophet Muhammad?s way for such and such reason."and you have NOT been able to do that have you and have turned nasty for the ONLY reason that I kept asking you to answer that one question. So, this is another thing you said
"Allah has already exposed you for what you are."
and I think He has certainly exposed you for what you are.
peace
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Peace
I did not follow this issue very well... could you clarify what is wrong with this translation please?
this is in relation to me having to continually ask guest to answer a question, the reply was
"I seem to recall a thread that said wipe the foot and not wash it. It has nothing to do with dry ablution. Your way gives rise to such nonsense. Go follow a leader since you are not one."
I assumed it was suppose to be something that I had said, which it wasn't. Still the question is unanswered
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1955 - He used to enjoin his family to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat); he was acceptable to his Lord.
20132 - You shall enjoin your family to observe the contact prayers (Salat), and steadfastly persevere in doing so. We do not ask you for any provisions; we are the ones who provide for you. The ultimate triumph belongs to the righteous.
The above two verse are easily implemented in preserved salat concept i.e. learning salat by observing our family, neighbor, etc. at a very young age (4,5,?.).
Ayisha,
How would you implement these verses in your system where one has to read Quran first to understand salat. What is that critical age? You might have to make a modern hadith to answer this one.
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1955 - He used to enjoin his family to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat); he was acceptable to his Lord.
20132 - You shall enjoin your family to observe the contact prayers (Salat), and steadfastly persevere in doing so. We do not ask you for any provisions; we are the ones who provide for you. The ultimate triumph belongs to the righteous.
The above two verse are easily implemented in preserved salat concept i.e. learning salat by observing our family, neighbor, etc. at a very young age (4,5,?.).
Ayisha,
How would you implement these verses in your system where one has to read Quran first to understand salat. What is that critical age? You might have to make a modern hadith to answer this one.
Please note that i am again answering your question while still waiting for an answer to mine.
Ismail 'enjoined' his family to observe the salat. Nothing here says he was taught it by his family or that he taught it to them, just that he enjoined on them to do the prayer, he told them to pray. i think you may have misunderstood the word 'observe' there to mean 'to watch'' right? The Arabic doesnt have 'observe' there.
19.31 "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
that is Jesus as a baby, meaning God had told him to do prayer and charity
there is nothing about wtching family or anyone else doing it.
Who said one had to read Quran to pray? The previous prophets didnt read it as far as I know and they prayed by doing what Quran says, bowing, prostrating, face to the floor, imploring, worshipping of course they wouldnt have done the reciting verses of Quran though but what they did was good enough for God.
It would be wise to look at other translations as well as Khalifa, others dont put observe in theirs and if you look at it the way you are doing it's telling you to just watch the prayer and not do it.
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San to ayisha
See If I answer all your questions, you will look real bad. I am doing you a favor by not answering all your questions. If you wish I can analyze your posts and expose your shortcomings. Do not insist it?s really bad.
Now that was a real one. rotfl
What is this if not a misquote? You said you've been here since 2006. Surprised you haven't learned about that "Quote" button at the top right of each post, and this is 2010 already.
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Please note that i am again answering your question while still waiting for an answer to mine.
Ismail 'enjoined' his family to observe the salat. Nothing here says he was taught it by his family or that he taught it to them, just that he enjoined on them to do the prayer, he told them to pray. i think you may have misunderstood the word 'observe' there to mean 'to watch'' right? The Arabic doesnt have 'observe' there.
19.31 "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
that is Jesus as a baby, meaning God had told him to do prayer and charity
there is nothing about wtching family or anyone else doing it.
Who said one had to read Quran to pray? The previous prophets didnt read it as far as I know and they prayed by doing what Quran says, bowing, prostrating, face to the floor, imploring, worshipping of course they wouldnt have done the reciting verses of Quran though but what they did was good enough for God.
It would be wise to look at other translations as well as Khalifa, others dont put observe in theirs and if you look at it the way you are doing it's telling you to just watch the prayer and not do it.
Peace Ayisha,
Your comment (correction) on RK?s translation is noted. Thank you.
From your comment I deduced that you understood the meaning I was trying portray in the verse 20132 i.e. perform the salat.
My question was How would you implement these verses in your system where one has to read Quran first to understand salat. What is that critical age?
You did not answer the question. You did not even comprehend my simple question. Yet you are claiming that you are answering my question. I will take baby steps to bring home the point.
In your system the concept of single leader is unacceptable. Another way of looking at it is everybody is leader. To me this is a chaotic system (satanic) but to you this is a perfect system. You have accepted this satanic system based on your WISDOM.
In your system everything has to be learned from the Quran by the individual and nothing can be passes on. Otherwise you will be advocating hadith, your hadith as opposed to Bukhari.
Under these conditions how can you enjoin salat to your family? I see no means to do it. In other word your system contradicts Quranic verses. Another way of looking at is you are nullifying the Quran by accepting your chaotic system.
There is no concept of preserving the salat in your system. Your chaotic system gives rise to 0, 1, 2, 3, 4?..salat. Which one do you preserve? Even if you preserve one, you cannot pass it on because you don?t accept hadith or transmission via human.
Now as for your comment ?Nothing here says he was taught it by his family or that he taught it to them, just that he enjoined on them to do the prayer, he told them to pray.?
You don?t enjoin something on others (especially your family) if you are not certain about it. Anything contrary to this can only be advocated by your satanic system. It is common sense that Ismail is using preserved salat or that he was taught by Allah. And he is passing it on to his family.
Now as for your comment ?Who said one had to read Quran to pray??
That?s what I have been telling you. Salat is preserve by Allah. We learn to do it without reading the Quran. We learn it via human transmission. No hadith.
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San
What is this if not a misquote? You said you've been here since 2006. Surprised you haven't learned about that "Quote" button at the top right of each post, and this is 2010 already.
Actually the quote was so on target that I could not stop laughing, therefore instead of guest it was San.
That is nothing to be surprised of because I have learned much better things then "Quoting button" in these years rotfl but I have to really acknowledge your "Wisdom" in discovering this "Quote button". hail -
Peace Ayisha,
Your comment (correction) on RK?s translation is noted. Thank you.
WelcomeFrom your comment I deduced that you understood the meaning I was trying portray in the verse 20132 i.e. perform the salat.
I understood you were trying to say that the word 'observe' was saying to 'watch' family etc doing the prayer, that is not what it means and if it did then there was nothing to say DO the prayer only to watch. Irrelevant as observe is not in the arabic anyway.My question was How would you implement these verses in your system where one has to read Quran first to understand salat. What is that critical age?
How would I implement these verses? I would tell my family they are to pray to God and be charitable. At any age they can comprehend pray to God and 'share'. Is there an age minimum?You did not answer the question. You did not even comprehend my simple question. Yet you are claiming that you are answering my question. I will take baby steps to bring home the point.
I pointed out the flaws on your question and I did answer it.In your system the concept of single leader is unacceptable. Another way of looking at it is everybody is leader. To me this is a chaotic system (satanic) but to you this is a perfect system. You have accepted this satanic system based on your WISDOM.
really? How come you know so much about my system but so little about me at the same time?In your system everything has to be learned from the Quran by the individual and nothing can be passes on. Otherwise you will be advocating hadith, your hadith as opposed to Bukhari.
Really? You think that Bukhari is the problem or that hadith is the problem? Quran is a hadith. My problem with hadith bukhari and of those that follow these hadith is that they advocate them as an extra message from God, which they are not. I have no problem listening to anyones advice and if its logical I will take it and if not I wont, but I wont be saying its from God when its not.Under these conditions how can you enjoin salat to your family? I see no means to do it. In other word your system contradicts Quranic verses. Another way of looking at is you are nullifying the Quran by accepting your chaotic system.
Look up 'enjoin' and get the correct meaning on it guest. It means to tell them to pray so following those verses is not contradicting Quran if I advise or tell my family to pray, HOW they pray is their business, HOW they connect to God is their business, they don't need to be told how to lay the hands on the knees or how far to bow or which points need to touch the floor in prostration as that is nothing to do with prayer and they don't need to be told that not rising as the prophet did without using your hands will nulify the prayer, God has said he listens to every prayer its not for any human to say it will be nullified for not pointing the toes in the right direction. Now your way we all watch our families do prayer but your family may do this different to another family etc etc, so do you also fight within families as which is right? And dont tell me all muslims do it the same because they dont.
There is no concept of preserving the salat in your system.
What total rubbish! prayer is prayer, you are trying to force a man made ritualistic set of actions on people and saying that is prayer, you dont have the first inkling of what prayer is!Your chaotic system gives rise to 0, 1, 2, 3, 4?..salat. Which one do you preserve? Even if you preserve one, you cannot pass it on because you don?t accept hadith or transmission via human.
What utter tripe. Have you any idea what you're talking about? did Abraham pray the same as you do? did Jesus? does a christian child? do you think they are not 'doing it properly' if its not the same as yours? if I do 2 or 20 a day is that wrong? does God write up on the score card I overstepped on prayer if I do 20 prayers?Now as for your comment ?Nothing here says he was taught it by his family or that he taught it to them, just that he enjoined on them to do the prayer, he told them to pray.?
You don?t enjoin something on others (especially your family) if you are not certain about it. Anything contrary to this can only be advocated by your satanic system. It is common sense that Ismail is using preserved salat or that he was taught by Allah. And he is passing it on to his family.
How can following Quran be a satanic system?
How can praying to MY God in MY way with all MY heart be satanic?
because I may put my feet in the wrong angle or my nose may not touch the floor so many times in the ritualistic bowing and prostrating physical ritual and uttering words from my mouth only without it touching my heart?You say common sense, if you had used common sense before posting the verse you would have looked up the arabic but you were so desperate to throw bricks you didnt even see if they were hard enough or not. Ismail told his family to pray and to give in charity, to thank God and be charitable, it is NOT saying he showed them the physical ritual and if God taught him this physical ritual do you think he came to earth and showed him "this is how I want it done and make sure you only have 5 points touching the floor when you prostrate to me or I will not listen and I want so many raka for this time and so many for another time and ignore the bit where I said not to be too quiet or too loud and you can instead be vocal in some raka and silent in another and that is what I meant by middle road"
Now as for your comment ?Who said one had to read Quran to pray??
That?s what I have been telling you. Salat is preserve by Allah. We learn to do it without reading the Quran. We learn it via human transmission. No hadith.
right, so kneeling beside my bed with my hands together and my eyes closed is fine as that's how I was taught by my family to pray to God, and it still worked fine.
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I understood you were trying to say that the word 'observe' was saying to 'watch' family etc doing the prayer, that is not what it means and if it did then there was nothing to say DO the prayer only to watch. Irrelevant as observe is not in the arabic anyway.
Peace,
I said one can learn via observation. Here is my quote ?The above two verse are easily implemented in preserved salat concept i.e. learning salat by observing our family, neighbor, etc. at a very young age (4,5,?.).?
How would I implement these verses? I would tell my family they are to pray to God and be charitable. At any age they can comprehend pray to God and 'share'. Is there an age minimum?
Now you are claiming that you can read other peoples mind. Otherwise how would you know when they are ready to comprehend salat? Where did you learn to read others mind form voodooist or from you two horns friend.
The simple fact is you cannot implement these verses in your satanic system because your system is anti-Quranic.
Is there an age minimum?
Don?t be playing dumb with me. You are supposed to be answering my question and not parrot the question back to me. Why don?t you just face the truth and admit your wrongs. You just cannot implement these verses.
really? How come you know so much about my system but so little about me at the same time?
I know all I need to know about you. That is you are a hypocrite. Remember Allah said he would expose the hypocrite via their action. If you were not a hypocrite then you would described the system to me if it was different from what I said. Hypocrites are at the bottom of the pit.
Really? You think that Bukhari is the problem or that hadith is the problem? Quran is a hadith. My problem with hadith bukhari and of those that follow these hadith is that they advocate them as an extra message from God, which they are not. I have no problem listening to anyones advice and if its logical I will take it and if not I wont, but I wont be saying its from God when its not.
If Prophet Muhammad was to render a verdict regarding a dispute based on his wisdom granted by Allah, you would be saying it is Muhammad?s way and not Allah?s way. Do you even know what logic is? If yes, then how come you produce so much illogical statements?
Look up 'enjoin' and get the correct meaning on it guest. It means to tell them to pray so following those verses is not contradicting Quran if I advise or tell my family to pray, HOW they pray is their business, HOW they connect to God is their business, they don't need to be told how to lay the hands on the knees or how far to bow or which points need to touch the floor in prostration as that is nothing to do with prayer and they don't need to be told that not rising as the prophet did without using your hands will nulify the prayer, God has said he listens to every prayer its not for any human to say it will be nullified for not pointing the toes in the right direction. Now your way we all watch our families do prayer but your family may do this different to another family etc etc, so do you also fight within families as which is right? And dont tell me all muslims do it the same because they dont.
This is total rubbish! Then why did Allah say he raises imams and teach them the rituals. Your description of salat is chaotic (satanic) and that why your system is satanic. In this system there is no way you can implement the cited verses. Someone got caught with their pant down. There is no way out of this one.
What total rubbish! prayer is prayer, you are trying to force a man made ritualistic set of actions on people and saying that is prayer, you dont have the first inkling of what prayer is!
No, all prayers are not equal. Are you suggesting idol worshipper prayer is the same as the monotheistic prayer? Allah taught our leaders how to pray just like He taught Adam the name of all things. And the believers are required to follow their leader.
What utter tripe. Have you any idea what you're talking about? did Abraham pray the same as you do? did Jesus? does a christian child? do you think they are not 'doing it properly' if its not the same as yours? if I do 2 or 20 a day is that wrong? does God write up on the score card I overstepped on prayer if I do 20 prayers?
Now we have Ayisha?s hadith on lower and the upper bounds of salat 2-20 a day
I suppose you got this from the root meaning dictionary of hell. You must be a dear friend of satan.The timing and the salat structure are the same for all believers (Abraham, Jesus, Muhammad ??)
How can following Quran be a satanic system?
You are not following the Quran. You are following your desire which is inspired by satan.
How can praying to MY God in MY way with all MY heart be satanic?
Because you are not following the way Allah taught us the salat.
Welcome
because I may put my feet in the wrong angle or my nose may not touch the floor so many times in the ritualistic bowing and prostrating physical ritual and uttering words from my mouth only without it touching my heart?So you do follow the Bukhari hadith. Physical transmission of salat via believers cannot contain such rubbish.
You say common sense, if you had used common sense before posting the verse you would have looked up the arabic but you were so desperate to throw bricks you didnt even see if they were hard enough or not. Ismail told his family to pray and to give in charity, to thank God and be charitable, it is NOT saying he showed them the physical ritual and if God taught him this physical ritual do you think he came to earth and showed him "this is how I want it done and make sure you only have 5 points touching the floor when you prostrate to me or I will not listen and I want so many raka for this time and so many for another time and ignore the bit where I said not to be too quiet or too loud and you can instead be vocal in some raka and silent in another and that is what I meant by middle road"
Good people enjoin good things to their family. One cannot enjoin something to others if it cannot be verified and validated (salat timing & structure)
Bad people enjoin bad things to their family.
right, so kneeling beside my bed with my hands together and my eyes closed is fine as that's how I was taught by my family to pray to God, and it still worked fine.
This is an unintelligent response. What was the timing and structure of salat taught?
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Don?t be playing dumb with me. You are supposed to be answering my question and not parrot the question back to me. Why don?t you just face the truth and admit your wrongs. You just cannot implement these verses.
If this cannot be called hypocrisy... then what should we call it?