9/11 Burning Of Quran Must Go On!
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Bottom line is God finalized the deen at the time of Prophet Muhammed. If hadiths are soo important as hadith followers claim then surely God would state in the quran that a man named Bukhari would come at a later date to collect the hikmah in a book and to not doubt his collection. hail
Surely God wouldn't leave us in the dark about him in the quran. But then again if hikmah is the sunnah collected in the hadith then surely Prophet Muhammed would have been instructed to collect it in a book at the time he was alive. hmm
But hadith followers say they were not wrote down at the same time to avoid mixing up with the quran. But surely if hadith explains the quran like they say, then surely the explanation needs to be written down simultaenously to explain the revelation and to finalize the deen. hmm
I HOPE THE READERS CAN SEE THE MANY LOOPHOLES & IDIOCY IN THE CLAIMS OF HADITH FOLLOWERS THAT I'VE POINTED OUT. ONE CANNOT JUSTIFY A DIVINE BOOK NEEDING EXPLANATION FROM A BOOK COLLECTED MANY YEARS LATER. PROPHET MUHAMMED FINISHED HIS MISSION OF DELIVERING THE DIVINE MESSAGE NOT BUKHARI & CO. O0
peace
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george
It's seems that you cant stop being an idiot for all your life
Youre an idiot if you claim that someone is wrong and accuse them of something and they ask you to prove youre claims and continue not giving them an answer.You just can't help yourself to get rid of this word "idiot" from yourself.
Q1 And if you have any proof that I am propagating "anti-islamic" websites
Answer You can visit any anti-Islamic site and you will find out at these HAdith you quoted above are compulsory part of these sites. These Hadith are taken from those anti -Islamic sites there is no doubt in that. Therefore by forwarding the claim of Christian missionaries you are in fact propagating these sites and their absurd claims.
Q2 Three versions of Hadith are not contradictory
Answer They are not contradictory. I told you to follow if there is any need to follow the one which tallies with Quran. The one about relatives has no support from Quran, and I have not discussed it. But the fact is they are not contradictory. They all say we have to follow Quran.
Q3 You can give me proof that those crazyass hadiths which I first posted are the wrong transilations and you can give me proof of the correct transilations in "the way you read them.
Answer I have already provided you with my understanding of Hadith and you have admitted that.
Q4you can give me proof that you can't understand the Quran without learning arabic.
Answer I had already provided you the proof that you cannot understand the Quran without knowing Arabic. Without knowing Arabic for yourself you will be dependent on others and their interpretation of Quran, as you are.So where are the questions you keep on shouting about in your each and every post, those are un-answered.
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george
You just can't help yourself to get rid of this word "idiot" from yourself.Q1 And if you have any proof that I am propagating "anti-islamic" websites
Answer You can visit any anti-Islamic site and you will find out at these HAdith you quoted above are compulsory part of these sites. These Hadith are taken from those anti -Islamic sites there is no doubt in that. Therefore by forwarding the claim of Christian missionaries you are in fact propagating these sites and their absurd claims.
Q2 Three versions of Hadith are not contradictory
Answer They are not contradictory. I told you to follow if there is any need to follow the one which tallies with Quran. The one about relatives has no support from Quran, and I have not discussed it. But the fact is they are not contradictory. They all say we have to follow Quran.
Q3 You can give me proof that those crazyass hadiths which I first posted are the wrong transilations and you can give me proof of the correct transilations in "the way you read them.
Answer I have already provided you with my understanding of Hadith and you have admitted that.
Q4you can give me proof that you can't understand the Quran without learning arabic.
Answer I had already provided you the proof that you cannot understand the Quran without knowing Arabic. Without knowing Arabic for yourself you will be dependent on others and their interpretation of Quran, as you are.So where are the questions you keep on shouting about in your each and every post, those are un-answered.
The ones you've just quoted above you idiot. )
Answer You can visit any anti-Islamic site and you will find out at these HAdith you quoted above are compulsory part of these sites. These Hadith are taken from those anti -Islamic sites there is no doubt in that. Therefore by forwarding the claim of Christian missionaries you are in fact propagating these sites and their absurd claims.
Just becuase you say they are anti-islamic or are from Christian missionaries does not prove that to be the case
besides like I said before what christian missionary website is glorify the Quran over the Bible ??? )
Still no proof provided eh???Answer They are not contradictory. I told you to follow if there is any need to follow the one which tallies with Quran. The one about relatives has no support from Quran, and I have not discussed it. But the fact is they are not contradictory. They all say we have to follow Quran.
All of them may say to follow the Quran but TWO of them say to follow something else aswell as the Quran
I am leaving you the Quran and my sunna; you should follow both.
(Muwatta 46/3).
463I am leaving you the Quran and my relatives; you should follow both.
(Muslim 44/4/2408; Ibn Hanbal 4/366; Darimi 23/1/3319).I am leaving you the Quran; you should follow it. (Muslim 15/19/1218;
Ibn Majah 25/84/3074; Abu Dawud 11/56/1905)The third hadith is the only one which tallies with the Quran, where as the other two do not and are all different from each other even though they are suppose to come from the last same sermon.
Making them contradictory to each other.Answer I have already provided you with my understanding of Hadith and you have admitted that.
You only provided "evidence" of the translations of the hadiths that I posted for one of them in "the way that you read them" and even that "evidence" is based on "someone elses" translation, which was the same thing you were accusing me of.
Answer I had already provided you the proof that you cannot understand the Quran without knowing Arabic. Without knowing Arabic for yourself you will be dependent on others and their interpretation of Quran, as you are.
I and Ayisha have already provided evidence using the original arabic that that the hadith is condemned in the Quran.
I may not know arabic but I do know what hadith looks like in arabic
750 ) )
(Quran verse 7750) In what other HADITH, then, will they, after this (Quran),
believe?I do not need to know arabic to understand the Quran nor do I need to know arabic to know what hadith looks like in that language or that it goes against Quran.
Such are the Signs of Allah, which We rehearse to thee in Truth; then in what HADITH will they believe after Allah and His Signs? 45.6
You still have'nt answered my question as to why if you the know the Quran in arabic and if as you say you can only undersdtand it by learning arabic, then how come you hadith follwers need the another book to understand the Quran or you rely on the interpretations of the Quran from hadith writers and not the Quran itself in the arabic you claim to be able to understand ???
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prince
Bottom line is God finalized the deen at the time of Prophet Muhammed. If hadiths are soo important as hadith followers claim then surely God would state in the quran that a man named Bukhari would come at a later date to collect the hikmah in a book and to not doubt his collection.
It does not look nice when some one talks big, and does not know the difference between Hikmah and Hadith compilation.
If you are trying to pint it to me that I said Hadith book cannot be doubted then you have not read this or any other thread where I have discussed this subject.Prince
Surely God wouldn't leave us in the dark about him in the quran. But then again if hikmah is the sunnah collected in the hadith then surely Prophet Muhammed would have been instructed to collect it in a book at the time he was alive.
This is common practice amongst average minded people of the world from beginning that they refer to some one who has invented/authored/narrated to them some thing new, for the first time. The Quran was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad peace is upon him, through him it was forwarded, he was the best person to explain the verses, he was also provided the Wisdom through which he decided in the daily to daily affairs within the frame work of Quran. If some one gets guide in his daily affairs from the Prophet's Sunna there is no harm in it, He no where said that if some one will not follow my Sunnah he will be not a Muslim.
Prince
But hadith followers say they were not wrote down at the same time to avoid mixing up with the quran. But surely if hadith explains the quran like they say, then surely the explanation needs to be written down simultaenously to explain the revelation and to finalize the deen.
I did not say that.
These sources are very important in understanding Quran, otherwise we will have confused people like so called Quranists. More and more scholars are realizing that the Message could be understood better if we know the History, the culture, the inscriptions of that time to ponder upon.prince
I HOPE THE READERS CAN SEE THE MANY LOOPHOLES & IDIOCY IN THE CLAIMS OF HADITH FOLLOWERS THAT I'VE POINTED OUT. ONE CANNOT JUSTIFY A DIVINE BOOK NEEDING EXPLANATION FROM A BOOK COLLECTED MANY YEARS LATER. PROPHET MUHAMMED FINISHED HIS MISSION OF DELIVERING THE DIVINE MESSAGE NOT BUKHARI & CO.
The period when the above statement was a hot cake is over now. Hadith book is an effort of different persons with all their sincerity at that time, they worked hard with all the best tools available at their times, off course those tools are not considered to be perfect or near to perfect by today's standards.
It is only that we can and we should use these tools to understand Quran in a better way. I hope you would have noted the LOOPHOLES AND IDIOCY in your above claims. -
george
The ones you've just quoted above you idiot. )
above I quoted george rotfl
Now if you think that I will report this to moderators that you have directly called others "idiot" for continuously more then ten times, so you can get away with it, I won't, You should be here with all your stupidity.
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george
above I quoted george rotflNow if you think that I will report this to moderators that you have directly called others "idiot" for continuously more then ten times, so you can get away with it, I won't, You should be here with all your stupidity.
This comming from an idiot who calls me confused but who confuses ayisha's quote with mine ??? rotfl
or who reckons that eggs,milk, and bread are mentioned in a verse in the Quran but can't provide the actual verse ??? rotfl rotfl rotflYou should be here so we can laugh at all your stupidity. rotfl
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with all humility i wud just like to say please let it go..this argument isnt going anywhere..our energies wud be much better spent doing sthing else rather than name calling and trying to prove a point when its obvious the argument isnt progressing through logic and reason but rather personal insults.
peace
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with all humility i wud just like to say please let it go..this argument isnt going anywhere..our energies wud be much better spent doing sthing else rather than name calling and trying to prove a point when its obvious the argument isnt progressing through logic and reason but rather personal insults.
peace
I tried the logical and reasonable approach as in providing evidence for the things a say but only to have them dismissed as "propagating anti-islamic websites" or "not understanding what hadith means" even though I had given him answers or calling me of being a "half baked quranist" but yet not willing to give proper answers to peoples questions.
Your right, i'ts a waste of time trying reason and having to repeat myself with an idiotic hadith follower who can't back up what he says or what he accuses people of and when asked to starts name calling, therefore prompting me to defend myself and then starts acting like you were the one who caused the argument.
If he does'nt want an argument then he should'nt start one especially when what he is arguing about is completey offtopic from the thread that HE started.
peace peace
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people will do that all the time... but a believer should never be instigated by sthing like that..its hard andnatural to want to defend urself, but dont let personal attacks deviate u frm ur purpose..its distracting and pointless...plus we are encouraged by Allah to reply to evil with gud, and we shud remember that always.
take the highroad and save urself a lot of pointless talk.
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george
I tried the logical and reasonable approach as in providing evidence for the things
and that approach was
george
idiot, idiotic, idiot, you idiot, asshadith, idiot, idiot, idiotic......
proves can be found on whole thread.
george
You still have'nt answered my question as to why if you the know the Quran in arabic and if as you say you can only undersdtand it by learning arabic, then how come you hadith follwers need the another book to understand the Quran or you rely on the interpretations of the Quran from hadith writers and not the Quran itself in the arabic you claim to be able to understand
Some people simply don't read.
Quote by Rajah
If you are trying to point it to me that I said Hadith book cannot be doubted then you have not read this or any other thread where I have discussed this subject.
This is common practice amongst average minded people of the world from beginning that they refer to some one who has invented/authored/narrated to them some thing new, for the first time. The Quran was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad peace is upon him, through him it was forwarded, he was the best person to explain the verses, he was also provided the Wisdom through which he decided in the daily to daily affairs within the frame work of Quran. If some one gets guide in his daily affairs from the Prophet's Sunna there is no harm in it, He no where said that if some one will not follow my Sunnah he will be not a Muslim.Prince
But hadith followers say they were not wrote down at the same time to avoid mixing up with the quran. But surely if hadith explains the quran like they say, then surely the explanation needs to be written down simultaenously to explain the revelation and to finalize the deen.
Rajah
I did not say that.
These sources are very important in understanding Quran, otherwise we will have confused people like so called Quranists. More and more scholars are realizing that the Message could be understood better if we know the History, the culture, the inscriptions of that time to ponder upon.he not only is one who does not understand, but who don't even bother to understand.
latest post by george
Your right, i'ts a waste of time trying reason and having to repeat myself with an idiotic hadith follower
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george
and that approach wasMy quotes
"I have, and I have yet to find where Alen used the word "kuffir" anywhere in the thread."
"In terms of Sunni's and Shia's, who refer to hadith which as we all know on this forum have pretty extremist views on women,apostacy,forced conversion etc, the word "extremist" is rightly and not loosley applicable to them."
which you replied
george
You seem to me a half baked Quranist! can you please quote some of the Hadith you are mentioning?george
proves can be found on whole thread.That youre an idiot ??? yeah i agree.
georgeSome people simply don't read.
Nither do you otherwise you would'nt get Ayisha's qoute mixed up with mine rotfl
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george
Congratulations at last a post without word "Idiot" bravoTheres no need to now that you've agreed with me that you are one bravo bravo bravo rotfl
So it was my mistake then and now is the reality rotfl stop making fun out of yourself.
And the reality is you've just admitted to it being your mistake bravo bravo bravo
Congratulations thats two things we've agreed on bravo bravo rotfl
youre an idiot ??? yeah i agree.
Agree!
rotfl
stop making fun out of yourself.
By the mistake that you've admitted to, I think you're the one who should stop doing that rotfl
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prince
It does not look nice when some one talks big, and does not know the difference between Hikmah and Hadith compilation.
If you are trying to pint it to me that I said Hadith book cannot be doubted then you have not read this or any other thread where I have discussed this subject.hikmah=wisdom and im only stating the general rebuttals of hadith followers.
The Quran was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad peace is upon him, through him it was forwarded, he was the best person to explain the verses, he was also provided the Wisdom through which he decided in the daily to daily affairs within the frame work of Quran. If some one gets guide in his daily affairs from the Prophet's Sunna there is no harm in it, He no where said that if some one will not follow my Sunnah he will be not a Muslim.
Do you have any quranic proof that the Prophet Muhammed was the BEST person to explain the verses?
Is wisdom just restricted to messengers/prophet or can general people like us get wisdom too?
The Prophet Muhammed is not with us to follow his sunnah so your left with a dilemma of following a collection of books that contradicts itself and most importantly the quran.
More and more scholars are realizing that the Message could be understood better if we know the History, the culture, the inscriptions of that time to ponder upon.
Does it matter what the scholars say? Scholars are humans they make mistakes just like we do when we interpret the quran. Its absurd for anyone to suggest you have to be a scholar to understand the quran. Is the interpretation of the quran revealed exclusively to 'scholars'?
How can you interpret a book that is for all people i.e all cultures and for all times through history and culture it was revealed in?? This is an absurd claim simply being that the interpretations done WITHOUT historical and culture bias show the beauty and universal application of quran in the world.
Hadith book is an effort of different persons with all their sincerity at that time, they worked hard with all the best tools available at their times, off course those tools are not considered to be perfect or near to perfect by today's standards.
It is only that we can and we should use these tools to understand Quran in a better way. I hope you would have noted the LOOPHOLES AND IDIOCY in your above claims.I think you should take note of your own claims that I've highlighted in bold for you. I think you should reflect very hard on why you feel the need to justify a contradictory book that you want to use to interpret a self explanatory book hmm
peace