In depth study on Salaat in Quran

6619

Salaam Wakas. It is exactly what I suspected you did. You did not read the article, and you were not interested in doing so because you had already subconsciously decided that no matter what you were going to reject it.

It is emotional outbursts such as these that lessen one's credibility. I recommend sticking to a logical and evidence based approach.

So let?s see if you are capable of sticking to sound logic and evidence or if you will try to deny no matter what if sound evidence is presented to you.

Yet in 1778, according to your view, this would mean that the time-period for salat (singular) is from noon to darkness of night, which is after the sun has set.
Please resolve this problem in your view.

Are you interested in looking at the Quran in its general context of just in taking verses in isolation out of their context ? 1778 defines the overall period for the practice of Salaat, from Noon to Dawn. Duluk al shams cannot be the time frame allocated for Maghrib because it takes about one more minute after ?the rubbing of the sun? to completely disappear. This proves that Duluk al Shams refers to the Salaat time frame starting at Midday not the one at sunset. The time limit for the sunset Salaat is defined in 20130 as the (complete) "disappearance of the sun".

The regular Arabic plural is 3 or more, NOT 4.
Please resolve this problem in your view.

Read my article attentively before you comment because it makes you look bad.
In 11114, the expression ?the extremities of the Daylight? is dual. It refers to two time frames Dawn and Sunset.
How do I know this for certain ?
Because the regular plural expression ?the extremities of the daylight? (three or more extremities by definition) in 20130 mirrors the dual expression in 11114 (Dawn and Sunset). There cannot be three extremities of the daylight with Dawn and Sunset, nor can you possibly find in an entire 24 hour period three extremities of the daylight except for the FOUR extremities of the daylight which FRAME Dawn and Sunset
(1) Crack of Dawn + (2) Appearance of the sun + (3) Disappearance of the Sun + (4) End of the twilight (When the last daylight has just vanished from the sky).
I challenge you to find three extremities or any other number than the four extremities I have just described. If you do not answer this challenge, it will mean you are evading the truth.

Your article is multiple pages long. Please reflect on this point.

Salaat is the most important ritual in Islam together with Zakat. I presented some crucial new decisive pieces of information in my article which I pray people will get to know. It is not a matter of how long or short, it is about the unity of Islam. The summary is about eight pages long and reads very easily. How difficult is that ?

Readers should note that whilst I used "prostration" in my translations, I only did so because this is what the author of the thread used, to avoid confusion. My view on SuJuD can be read here http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html

This is why Freeminds have completely disconnected with the reality of Quran. Every time something contradicts their views, they reinvent the meanings of words. It is revisionism, not pure Islam.
A Sujud is a prostration. Quran describes the mark that believers have on their faces (foreheads) because of prostrating. How can anyone reject such a blatant truth ?! It really saddens me.
(2226) And we revealed to Abraham the location of the temple ?Do not associate anything beside Me, and purify My temple for those who do the Tawaf (ritual of circling the Kaaba), and those who stand, bow and prostrate (during Salaat).
(4829) Muhammad is the messenger of God, and those with him are fierce against the disbelievers and compassionate among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating seeking God?s favors and acceptance. Their faces (foreheads) bear the marks left by the prostrations (most notably in Salaat). Such is their parable in the Torah as well as their parable in the Gospel they are like a seed which puts forth its sprout, then strengthens itself, becomes thick and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers, while enraging the disbelievers. God has promised forgiveness as well as an immense reward to those among them who believe and do deeds of righteousness.

The only real reason why you refuse to see ?Sujud? as a ?prostration? is that you are too proud to prostrate physically before God, and because you refuse to see that 5039-40 is about actual ritual prayers involving physical ?prostrations? (regular plural = three or more in 5040). The language of 5039-40 is incontrovertibly clear for anyone who is sincere it is about ritual prayer time frames, and the language of 5039 is almost word for word identical to the language in 20130, which shows that both are about ritual prayers and Salaat time frames.
(5039) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun ( &#1616 and before sunset ( &#1616, (5040) And (starting) from the night ( &#1616, so glorify Him (&#1615, as well as at the ends of the prostrations ( &#1616.
(20130) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun ( &#1616 and before its disappearance ( &#1575, as well as from the (first) hours of the night ( &#1604, and celebrate (the praise of your Lord) at the extremities of the daylight ( &#1616, that you may be content.

If you do not change Wakas, you will be stunned on the Day of Judgment because of rejecting such clear evidence and because of all the people you will have misled. Be very careful. You should look at the truth as it is, not as you would like it to be.

7206 Those at your Lord are never too proud to worship Him; they glorify Him and fall prostrate before Him.

Why not simply admit that Freeminds are on the wrong path and accept the straightforward meaning of the Quran ? Why try to make crooked a path that is straight ?

Peace.

Pierre

Wakas

peace Pierre,

Thanks for attempting to answer my questions. I am more than happy for readers of the forum to read our exchange and make up their own minds.

To you, your deen, and to me, mine.

loxbox13

I was excited really when i saw your message saying u did so much research, visited your site about salats and all, thank u for the efforts, but, is your post u said most people are not gonna accept because of ego, what if it's u who don(t want to accept reality because of you

u first based the number of salat word mentionned in the quran, u said it's 5 times, than rashad khalfa code19 came into my mind so i went to count salawat, i found much more, than went for ramadan if i see 30 or 19, meaning if it's 30 days or 29 day; i found around 18 so maybe we're supposed to fast 18 months in a year or 18 days in a month
so i realised that this is not the style of the quran
the salat is Tashriia, a law , imposed on mumins, so it's rules and regulations has to be clear just as divorce, or fasting etc....
so the law of salat is in a cleaar verse , duluk shams to ghassak layl , it's obviously a time range , duluk in arabic means rubbing, no matter how u put it , and allah sais adueem salat liduluk shams to or until ghassak layl
the rubbing of the sun to the ghassak of the night
and the second one is quran fadjr , comes with salat fadjr ,
than after giving the fardh, obligatory salat with their time range, he gave the salat nafila, even though it(s between them , but he gave it last, here we understand that nafila can be done only at night
the way of salat doesn't need a manuel, we all know how to wash, and the salat is standing and prostrating only, standing while reading, and prostrating for tasbeeh
this is what i understand so far
if u read arabic, i might post a message
wakas maybe if u understand arabic, i will post an article if someone can translate it, and study it and correct it if possible for those who believe in salat as prostrating physically
thank u

loxbox13

Can someone translate, even though this guy is talking about 3 salat, i believe it's 2 , he says it's three because tarafay bahar et zouloufan mina llayl , for me tarafay nahar are the am and pf of the day when u add to them zullufan mina layl, they mean colse to the night, fadjr and isha, i posted it because i believe he is closer to the truth

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loxbox13

6619

If u study the quran without numbers, u will realise that you are missing a lot
rashad khalfa made huge mistakes in his preaching creer
he pray 5 times a day and he say he learned it from abraham from generation to generation
how can he say that ? that's how hadith came into place in the first place
people pray 5 times because of hadiths , not because generation to generation
if u read les tafssir, u realise when they imposed 5 salats
sometimes we hear u saying the quran is fully detailed, but there is no salat in it
u know the reason u see it this way, and why u keep defending this 5 salats daily ? it's because u can't stand more mistakes made by khalfa
u know why khalfa made all these mistakes? it's because he concentrated in 2 things, numbers to prouve his miracle, and more time studying on how to prouve his messengership
that's why he missed so much things in the quran and made mistakes so obvious even a non speaking arabic doesn't make them
do u study the quran or u still decoding?
why don't u search for the times of salat and how to do it in the quran ?
don't u say the quran is fully detailed?
even u came up with numbers, salat is mentioned 5 times

( )

do u see these 2 verses ? Allah is talking about animals, they know how to pray for allah programed them that way, but us, we're not programed and it is allah who show us how to pray, not abraham no mohamed nor anyone else
I like when u say we follow Abraham, but we know about abraham only through the book that came to Mohamed, r u saying u follow mohamed ? or u can't say it !!!
Prophet mohamed prayed 2 times a day acording to the detailed Koran, and his prayer was standing and prostrating according to the quran also
if u can't see it, it doesn't mean it's not there, the problem isn't in the book, the problem is in us
I give u an exemple , how many times u stand in a salat ? because there is no ruku3 is salat , so we say how many times we stand right ? because it's only standing and prostrating, this is the whole details that's why u don(t see, it , everyone is looking for a complicated rituel, that's why they're so different in their researc
well now that all the position details are in the quran, what about how many tiles u stad?
u know this verse?

this verse say stand twice and once
better study the quran than study numbers before u put in your site that u did scholarly research
standing u just read the quran and prayers from the quran
prostrating only tasbeeh

u end it with Hamdullah rabi aalamine
it's as simple as that,

it's not really a ritual, it's glorifying allah and while stitting u can study the quran as remembrance, stay in touch with the quran, but not counting though lol, u have that range of time u can do all that
this is what i believe Wakas HELP! LOL
can u analyse my mistakes please, thanks

ayman

Peace Pierre

I pray it will help people, I am not here to start a new dispute, but simply to present a number of new observations derived from the Quran.

Can you tell us what is "new"? As far as I can tell, your so called Salaat is no different from that of sectarians and 19ers. You are just as lost as them. You just went in a big circle to justify your preconceptions and came back to square 1.

Peace,

Ayman

loxbox13

Salat standing and prostrating is everywhere
some verses
.

if salat is standing and prostrating, than it is very very detailed in the quran and simple , a kid of 2 years can learn it

ayman

Peace Loxbox13,

If you know Arabic then I suggest you download the following article in PDF format

http//www.scribd.com/doc/28890747/Arabic-Salat-Article

Peace,

Ayman

loxbox13

Peace Loxbox13,

If you know Arabic then I suggest you download the following article in PDF format

http//www.scribd.com/doc/28890747/Arabic-Salat-Article

Peace,

Ayman

Sounds logic, i came with a difference,
I feel like salat is standing reading and prostrating, i don't know why i feel there is this part , maybe i am right and maybe the sect that still in me keep telling me u have to prostrate litteraly at least once
but i know that reading the quran is the most important part, and doing it while sitting or any position confortable
so i am not to far frim the pdf u sent me, thanks for that
for now, i do it the way of the pdf u sent me, and finish it with one prostration than stand up and go to bed
the closest possible to the quran lol
good article, thanx

I knew it, I knew it, peophet mohamed abolished all rituels , that's why they fought him

the only reason why i do the standing and prostrating at least one, is because in the begining of the revelation, the prophet use to stand half the night for his salat, what was he reading while he had only a small sourah or 2
can u find an answer to thatN thanks

kgwithnob

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600954.msg256826#msg256826

Peace,
Khalil

Mazhar

This verse hints that the ritual of Salaat was already a reality before Abraham.

Salam 6619

If you please look at the Ayat you will find that the Pronoun is referring back to Ibrahim alahissalam and others after him, and not to Adam and Nuh alahissalam.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/019.%20Maryam%20Siddiqa/19.58.gif

These were those upon whom Allah showered blessings from amongst the Elevated and Chosen Distinct Persons.

Who are they? This refers back to those under discussion/mention from 1941.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/019.%20Maryam%20Siddiqa/19.59.gif
Thereafter/for reason, the later generations after them succeeded who neglectfully discarded the Ass-sa'laat and they practically followed desires and lusts and conjectural fascinations.

1951-63

Mazhar

You may also like to reconsider this

Every time we read or recite the Quran, we must seek refuge in God from satan the outcast.

169 When you recite the Quran, seek refuge in God against satan, the outcast.

? When we stand about to start the prayer and before we start reciting the Quran, believers respond to the above commandment by saying ?I seek refuge in God from satan, the outcast.? ( &#1584.

Therefore when you have finished reading the Qur'aan thereafter/for reason you must self assign the task-make it your habit of seeking protection of Allah from the influence of discarded and condemned Shai'taan.

Prefixed conjunction which shows cause/reason-sequence and effect/consequence + Verb Imperative; Second person; masculine; singular; Subject pronoun hidden. . Apodosis clause; consequence of fulfillment of conditional clause.

Asana

Peace

I really find it so difficult to understand the mentality of those who have decided to read/recite the Quran in their Prayer/Al-Salat back to God.

By analyzing the real true meaning behind the following verse will show GW that reading the Quran back to God how sounds absurd?.Quran is for us to read and use it in our daily life not reading it back to Our Lord when contacting Him!

Say, "Are you informing GOD about your religion? GOD knows everything in the heavens and the earth. GOD is Omniscient."

The only chapter in the Quran is Al-Fatiha/Key that contains essence of our worshiping and obedience to God Alone without mentioning any command or instruction and laws for us ?.The Interesting point is that God reads us in CH 2 as ?This Book? in verse 2 highlighting it that from now on this Book what will be all about ?..God could have put that word in CH 1 but He didn?t..You know why? Well I leave it to you to find the answer to it whenever you read back the Quran to God based on 4916.

Asana

Asana

Peace Pierre

<<<A Sujud is a prostration.>>>

Sujud doesn?t alwayes mean a prostration?.The below verse is so clear on it

Recall that we said, "Enter this town, where you will find as many provisions as you like. Just enter the gate humbly/prostrating, and treat the people nicely. We will then forgive your sins, and increase the reward for the pious."

And by definition the 4829 doesn?t mean the mark of physical prostration on foreheads.
Please refrain from adding your own interpretation in parenthesis of 4829 as you did.
Just recently a so-called submitter went back to his Sunni path by interpreting the 4829 the you do by saying that he doesn?t see the mark of prostration on submitters face/foreheads and above that in Rashad?s forehead!....Today reading your interpretation made me speechless too .

The second point is that I totally disagree with you when you say we should seek refuge in God from Satan in our Contact prayer because God asks us whenever we read Quran.
Contact prayer is not recitation of the Quran?It?s Contacting our Lord?mentioning name of Satan in Contact Prayer nullifies it the same way when other names like name of prophet to be mentioned in it.
Contact Prayer must be pure of mentioning of any names other than God.
I respect you for your research but I disagree with your interpretation of some of the verses.

Peace
Asana

mmkhan

Salaaman Asana,

The only chapter in the Quran is Al-Fatiha/Key that contains essence of our worshiping and obedience to God Alone without mentioning any command or instruction and laws for us ?.The Interesting point is that God reads us in CH 2 as ?This Book? in verse 2 highlighting it that from now on this Book what will be all about ?..God could have put that word in CH 1 but He didn?t..You know why? Well I leave it to you to find the answer to it whenever you read back the Quran to God based on 4916.

22 never says 'This Book'

But it says 'That Book'. Look at the Arabic text, it says ' '

Zaalika does mean 'That'
Haaza means 'This'

As in 179

This AlQuraan
That AlKitaab

May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.

Mohammed M. Khan

loxbox13

I know now that rukoo is noy incline of the back, because incline in arabic means inhinaa , et ruka3 come from the group of movements by the leg to the feet
rokouu has a family of similar names
rokba = knee
Rakadja = run
Rakla = kick
= to mount with feet
kaab = Heel
= kouaan = hands
= kuaa = hand

the feet and hads together are called kuaan
so one of the? is kuaa and the others <re kaab n they have is common , these two letters are common for feet and hands, but they form more the lettrs of hands, so it has to add the R to mentions both hands and feet , wich is the first letters of rukba ans is added to say to give the word and wich means hands so hands and knees on the ground, a transition to Sujud, therefpor rukuaa has the same meaning as kharra
at leat now i understand that rukaa is not bowing, because bowing in arabic is Inhinaa
so forget about bowing is salat,

Asana

Salam mmkhan

Thanks for the reminder ?I know the meaning of the word of Zalika but the point is that when it gets translated if we say ?that Book? the reader get confused of which Book God is talking about?.An Arabic reader would understand it by heart it?s talking about Quran but not for an English reader.
If you look at the some translations in English you would see it?s ?this? instead of ?that?.

Peace
Asana

6619

Salaam to all,

To Asana

When it comes to Salaat, only those who are arrogant refuse to prostrate physically before God.

(17107) Proclaim ?Believe in it (the Quran) or not, verily, when it is recited to those who were blessed with knowledge before this, (1st prostration they fall on their chins prostrating. (1710 And they proclaim ?Praise be to our Lord ! Indeed the prophecy of our Lord has assuredly been fulfilled !? (17109) (2nd prostration And they fall on their chins in tears, as it increases their reverence.

If the chins of the people the book listening to the recitation of the Quran did not touch the ground while they prostrated, then I am completely astray and arrogantly deny the truth, and Ayman and Wakas are guided.
If their chins actually physically touched the ground during their prostration, then Ayman and Wakas are astray and arrogantly deny the truth, and I am guided regarding the fact that prostration is a physical prostration.

Same case for 4829. Only people filled with arrogance refuse to prostrate physically and well as mentally before God in their ritual prayers. As for the mark due to prostration, as I said in my article, it is not the type of self inflicted mark that al Qaida type of people inflict on themselves. It simply acknowledges that the foreheads of those who submit to God actually touch the ground. People who observe Salaat 5 times a day have an almost indistinguishable mark on their foreheads due to the prostrations. Many years ago when I was discovered Islam as a sunni, to my surprise, I remember friends of mine had already noticed that on my forehead, and same with you Asana or anyone else if you observe Salaat five times a day, look at yourself very closely in the mirror under proper light, and you will see an almost indistinguishable, very slight mark. No one wil notice that mark unless they know you are Muslim and look very closely.

?I seek refuge in God, from satan the outcast?
When you utter this phrase submitting to God?s command in 1698, Salaat has not started yet. It starts with the takbir. Furthermore in 1698 when it is said ?When you recite the Quran, seek refuge in God from satan, the outcast.?, satan is mentioned beside God, but obviously as being rejecting from God and our lives. Is 1698 a verse from Quran or from some evil forces ?!

As for reciting the Quran in Salaat, I will simply say that Salaat is not just about establishing contact, it is a two way communication between God and us. We Glorify Him and I cannot agree more that sura 1 is the perfect glorification, and He responds to us when we recite the Quran and we meditate on the message he sent to us.
As I said in the article, it is especially recommended to recite the Quran in our Salaat at Dawn (177, and 2945 is very clear about it as well. I did not make it up, and I would never dare to claim (God forbid) it is haraam to recite the Quran during Salaat as it would be creating a false prohibition. We know how catastrophic it is to create false prohibitions.
It is absolutely wonderful to observe Salaat five times a day, recite sura 1, and a few verses or suras from the Quran on which we deeply meditate and make the Quran part of our daily lives.

To Loxbox 13

I patiently detailed the five times frames allocated to Salaat in my article. You can only accept it if you understand that 5039-40 is about Salaat time frames involving physical ?prostrations? (regular plural = 3 or more, as in 5040). People of the book in 17107 ?prostrated? on their chins, which proves that people who claim prostration is not physical are not Muslims but people filled with arrogance and dividers. To them their religion, to me my religion (Islam).

As for Rashad Khalifa, he simply opened the door to Quran alone. He made a number of mistakes. He is dead, and we need to move on and focus on Quran alone, as he preached, because following his hadiths subject us to his misinterpretations. Quran is the final messenger.

Duluk al Shams does not mean ?rubbing? in the context of Quran. It is flat wrong, unless you believe the earth is flat and the sun actually touches the line of the horizon rubbing it, as Ayman and Wakas seem to believe. As far as I know a few miles separate planet earth and the sun, but I may be wrong.

I took the time to explain in detail in my article that 20130 makes it clear that the time limit to observe Salaat at Sunset is FROM THE DISAPPEARANCE OF THE SUN because the previous prayer is said to be ?BEFORE its disappearance? ( &#1575. (http//www.islamrevolution.org/salaatinquran.htm, section 16.4). It is not one minute before, when supposedly the sun start rubbing the line of the horizon. This leaves only one correct explanation Duluk al shams is the ?decline of the sun? starting at Noon. No other way around it, except for people like Ayman and Wakas who will deny the truth no matter what.

1778 provides the overall time range for the five prayers, showing there is no Salaat between Sunrise and Noon. Other verses unmistakably provide the detail of all five Salaat times frames (http//www.islamrevolution.org/salaatsummary.htm section 17.2.1 to 17.2.5).

The Salaat is not ?standing and prostrating only? as you said it is, I hope you carefully reflect on the following
(2226) And we revealed to Abraham the location of the temple ?Do not associate anything beside Me, and purify My temple for those who do the Tawaf (ritual of circling the Kaaba), and those who stand, bow and prostrate (during Salaat).
The Quran makes ?to bow? and ?to prostrate? intersect FIVE times in the Quran (2125, 9112, 2226, 2277, 4829).

Raka'a has several meanings among which "to have one's back bent", "stoop the head to kneel" (as Mary does in kneeling position before she prostrates in 343). People are free to reinvent the wheel if they want, like Freeminds.
People who do not (1) Stand, (2) Bow, (3) prostrate in their Salaat are not Muslims. They are like satan who arrogantly refused to prostrate when God commanded him to do so. Even a Masjid is literally ?a place of prostration?.

As for Ayman and Wakas and like people, I am waiting for the day they will face God and will be unable to prostrate, because they were filled with arrogance

6842 The day will come when they will be exposed, and they will be required to fall prostrate, but they will be unable to.

Pierre

loxbox13