In depth study on Salaat in Quran

[loxbox13]

Peace Loxbox13,

If you know Arabic then I suggest you download the following article in PDF format

http//www.scribd.com/doc/28890747/Arabic-Salat-Article

Peace,

Ayman

Sounds logic, i came with a difference,
I feel like salat is standing reading and prostrating, i don't know why i feel there is this part , maybe i am right and maybe the sect that still in me keep telling me u have to prostrate litteraly at least once
but i know that reading the quran is the most important part, and doing it while sitting or any position confortable
so i am not to far frim the pdf u sent me, thanks for that
for now, i do it the way of the pdf u sent me, and finish it with one prostration than stand up and go to bed
the closest possible to the quran lol
good article, thanx

I knew it, I knew it, peophet mohamed abolished all rituels , that's why they fought him

the only reason why i do the standing and prostrating at least one, is because in the begining of the revelation, the prophet use to stand half the night for his salat, what was he reading while he had only a small sourah or 2
can u find an answer to thatN thanks

[kgwithnob]

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600954.msg256826#msg256826

Peace,
Khalil

[Mazhar]

This verse hints that the ritual of Salaat was already a reality before Abraham.

Salam 6619

If you please look at the Ayat you will find that the Pronoun is referring back to Ibrahim alahissalam and others after him, and not to Adam and Nuh alahissalam.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/019.%20Maryam%20Siddiqa/19.58.gif

These were those upon whom Allah showered blessings from amongst the Elevated and Chosen Distinct Persons.

Who are they? This refers back to those under discussion/mention from 1941.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/019.%20Maryam%20Siddiqa/19.59.gif
Thereafter/for reason, the later generations after them succeeded who neglectfully discarded the Ass-sa'laat and they practically followed desires and lusts and conjectural fascinations.

1951-63

[Mazhar]

You may also like to reconsider this

7. Every time we read or recite the Quran, we must seek refuge in God from satan the outcast.

169 When you recite the Quran, seek refuge in God against satan, the outcast.

? When we stand about to start the prayer and before we start reciting the Quran, believers respond to the above commandment by saying ?I seek refuge in God from satan, the outcast.? ( &#1584.

Therefore when you have finished reading the Qur'aan thereafter/for reason you must self assign the task-make it your habit of seeking protection of Allah from the influence of discarded and condemned Shai'taan.

Prefixed conjunction which shows cause/reason-sequence and effect/consequence + Verb Imperative; Second person; masculine; singular; Subject pronoun hidden. . Apodosis clause; consequence of fulfillment of conditional clause.

[Asana]

Peace

I really find it so difficult to understand the mentality of those who have decided to read/recite the Quran in their Prayer/Al-Salat back to God.

By analyzing the real true meaning behind the following verse will show GW that reading the Quran back to God how sounds absurd?.Quran is for us to read and use it in our daily life not reading it back to Our Lord when contacting Him!

Say, "Are you informing GOD about your religion? GOD knows everything in the heavens and the earth. GOD is Omniscient."

The only chapter in the Quran is Al-Fatiha/Key that contains essence of our worshiping and obedience to God Alone without mentioning any command or instruction and laws for us ?.The Interesting point is that God reads us in CH 2 as ?This Book? in verse 2 highlighting it that from now on this Book what will be all about ?..God could have put that word in CH 1 but He didn?t..You know why? Well I leave it to you to find the answer to it whenever you read back the Quran to God based on 4916.

Asana

[Asana]

Peace Pierre

<<<A Sujud is a prostration.>>>

Sujud doesn?t alwayes mean a prostration?.The below verse is so clear on it

Recall that we said, "Enter this town, where you will find as many provisions as you like. Just enter the gate humbly/prostrating, and treat the people nicely. We will then forgive your sins, and increase the reward for the pious."

And by definition the 4829 doesn?t mean the mark of physical prostration on foreheads.
Please refrain from adding your own interpretation in parenthesis of 4829 as you did.
Just recently a so-called submitter went back to his Sunni path by interpreting the 4829 the you do by saying that he doesn?t see the mark of prostration on submitters face/foreheads and above that in Rashad?s forehead!....Today reading your interpretation made me speechless too .

The second point is that I totally disagree with you when you say we should seek refuge in God from Satan in our Contact prayer because God asks us whenever we read Quran.
Contact prayer is not recitation of the Quran?It?s Contacting our Lord?mentioning name of Satan in Contact Prayer nullifies it the same way when other names like name of prophet to be mentioned in it.
Contact Prayer must be pure of mentioning of any names other than God.
I respect you for your research but I disagree with your interpretation of some of the verses.

Peace
Asana

[mmkhan]

Salaaman Asana,

The only chapter in the Quran is Al-Fatiha/Key that contains essence of our worshiping and obedience to God Alone without mentioning any command or instruction and laws for us ?.The Interesting point is that God reads us in CH 2 as ?This Book? in verse 2 highlighting it that from now on this Book what will be all about ?..God could have put that word in CH 1 but He didn?t..You know why? Well I leave it to you to find the answer to it whenever you read back the Quran to God based on 4916.

22 never says 'This Book'

But it says 'That Book'. Look at the Arabic text, it says ' '

Zaalika does mean 'That'
Haaza means 'This'

As in 179

This AlQuraan
That AlKitaab

May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.

Mohammed M. Khan

[loxbox13]

I know now that rukoo is noy incline of the back, because incline in arabic means inhinaa , et ruka3 come from the group of movements by the leg to the feet
rokouu has a family of similar names
rokba = knee
Rakadja = run
Rakla = kick
= to mount with feet
kaab = Heel
= kouaan = hands
= kuaa = hand

the feet and hads together are called kuaan
so one of the? is kuaa and the others <re kaab n they have is common , these two letters are common for feet and hands, but they form more the lettrs of hands, so it has to add the R to mentions both hands and feet , wich is the first letters of rukba ans is added to say to give the word and wich means hands so hands and knees on the ground, a transition to Sujud, therefpor rukuaa has the same meaning as kharra
at leat now i understand that rukaa is not bowing, because bowing in arabic is Inhinaa
so forget about bowing is salat,

[Asana]

Salam mmkhan

Thanks for the reminder ?I know the meaning of the word of Zalika but the point is that when it gets translated if we say ?that Book? the reader get confused of which Book God is talking about?.An Arabic reader would understand it by heart it?s talking about Quran but not for an English reader.
If you look at the some translations in English you would see it?s ?this? instead of ?that?.

Peace
Asana

[6619]

Salaam to all,

To Asana

When it comes to Salaat, only those who are arrogant refuse to prostrate physically before God.

(17107) Proclaim ?Believe in it (the Quran) or not, verily, when it is recited to those who were blessed with knowledge before this, (1st prostration they fall on their chins prostrating. (1710 And they proclaim ?Praise be to our Lord ! Indeed the prophecy of our Lord has assuredly been fulfilled !? (17109) (2nd prostration And they fall on their chins in tears, as it increases their reverence.

If the chins of the people the book listening to the recitation of the Quran did not touch the ground while they prostrated, then I am completely astray and arrogantly deny the truth, and Ayman and Wakas are guided.
If their chins actually physically touched the ground during their prostration, then Ayman and Wakas are astray and arrogantly deny the truth, and I am guided regarding the fact that prostration is a physical prostration.

Same case for 4829. Only people filled with arrogance refuse to prostrate physically and well as mentally before God in their ritual prayers. As for the mark due to prostration, as I said in my article, it is not the type of self inflicted mark that al Qaida type of people inflict on themselves. It simply acknowledges that the foreheads of those who submit to God actually touch the ground. People who observe Salaat 5 times a day have an almost indistinguishable mark on their foreheads due to the prostrations. Many years ago when I was discovered Islam as a sunni, to my surprise, I remember friends of mine had already noticed that on my forehead, and same with you Asana or anyone else if you observe Salaat five times a day, look at yourself very closely in the mirror under proper light, and you will see an almost indistinguishable, very slight mark. No one wil notice that mark unless they know you are Muslim and look very closely.

?I seek refuge in God, from satan the outcast?
When you utter this phrase submitting to God?s command in 1698, Salaat has not started yet. It starts with the takbir. Furthermore in 1698 when it is said ?When you recite the Quran, seek refuge in God from satan, the outcast.?, satan is mentioned beside God, but obviously as being rejecting from God and our lives. Is 1698 a verse from Quran or from some evil forces ?!

As for reciting the Quran in Salaat, I will simply say that Salaat is not just about establishing contact, it is a two way communication between God and us. We Glorify Him and I cannot agree more that sura 1 is the perfect glorification, and He responds to us when we recite the Quran and we meditate on the message he sent to us.
As I said in the article, it is especially recommended to recite the Quran in our Salaat at Dawn (177, and 2945 is very clear about it as well. I did not make it up, and I would never dare to claim (God forbid) it is haraam to recite the Quran during Salaat as it would be creating a false prohibition. We know how catastrophic it is to create false prohibitions.
It is absolutely wonderful to observe Salaat five times a day, recite sura 1, and a few verses or suras from the Quran on which we deeply meditate and make the Quran part of our daily lives.

To Loxbox 13

I patiently detailed the five times frames allocated to Salaat in my article. You can only accept it if you understand that 5039-40 is about Salaat time frames involving physical ?prostrations? (regular plural = 3 or more, as in 5040). People of the book in 17107 ?prostrated? on their chins, which proves that people who claim prostration is not physical are not Muslims but people filled with arrogance and dividers. To them their religion, to me my religion (Islam).

As for Rashad Khalifa, he simply opened the door to Quran alone. He made a number of mistakes. He is dead, and we need to move on and focus on Quran alone, as he preached, because following his hadiths subject us to his misinterpretations. Quran is the final messenger.

Duluk al Shams does not mean ?rubbing? in the context of Quran. It is flat wrong, unless you believe the earth is flat and the sun actually touches the line of the horizon rubbing it, as Ayman and Wakas seem to believe. As far as I know a few miles separate planet earth and the sun, but I may be wrong.

I took the time to explain in detail in my article that 20130 makes it clear that the time limit to observe Salaat at Sunset is FROM THE DISAPPEARANCE OF THE SUN because the previous prayer is said to be ?BEFORE its disappearance? ( &#1575. (http//www.islamrevolution.org/salaatinquran.htm, section 16.4). It is not one minute before, when supposedly the sun start rubbing the line of the horizon. This leaves only one correct explanation Duluk al shams is the ?decline of the sun? starting at Noon. No other way around it, except for people like Ayman and Wakas who will deny the truth no matter what.

1778 provides the overall time range for the five prayers, showing there is no Salaat between Sunrise and Noon. Other verses unmistakably provide the detail of all five Salaat times frames (http//www.islamrevolution.org/salaatsummary.htm section 17.2.1 to 17.2.5).

The Salaat is not ?standing and prostrating only? as you said it is, I hope you carefully reflect on the following
(2226) And we revealed to Abraham the location of the temple ?Do not associate anything beside Me, and purify My temple for those who do the Tawaf (ritual of circling the Kaaba), and those who stand, bow and prostrate (during Salaat).
The Quran makes ?to bow? and ?to prostrate? intersect FIVE times in the Quran (2125, 9112, 2226, 2277, 4829).

Raka'a has several meanings among which "to have one's back bent", "stoop the head to kneel" (as Mary does in kneeling position before she prostrates in 343). People are free to reinvent the wheel if they want, like Freeminds.
People who do not (1) Stand, (2) Bow, (3) prostrate in their Salaat are not Muslims. They are like satan who arrogantly refused to prostrate when God commanded him to do so. Even a Masjid is literally ?a place of prostration?.

As for Ayman and Wakas and like people, I am waiting for the day they will face God and will be unable to prostrate, because they were filled with arrogance

6842 The day will come when they will be exposed, and they will be required to fall prostrate, but they will be unable to.

Pierre

[loxbox13]

Salaam to all,

To Asana

When it comes to Salaat, only those who are arrogant refuse to prostrate physically before God.

(17107) Proclaim ?Believe in it (the Quran) or not, verily, when it is recited to those who were blessed with knowledge before this, (1st prostration they fall on their chins prostrating. (1710 And they proclaim ?Praise be to our Lord ! Indeed the prophecy of our Lord has assuredly been fulfilled !? (17109) (2nd prostration And they fall on their chins in tears, as it increases their reverence.

If the chins of the people the book listening to the recitation of the Quran did not touch the ground while they prostrated, then I am completely astray and arrogantly deny the truth, and Ayman and Wakas are guided.
If their chins actually physically touched the ground during their prostration, then Ayman and Wakas are astray and arrogantly deny the truth, and I am guided regarding the fact that prostration is a physical prostration.

Same case for 4829. Only people filled with arrogance refuse to prostrate physically and well as mentally before God in their ritual prayers. As for the mark due to prostration, as I said in my article, it is not the type of self inflicted mark that al Qaida type of people inflict on themselves. It simply acknowledges that the foreheads of those who submit to God actually touch the ground. People who observe Salaat 5 times a day have an almost indistinguishable mark on their foreheads due to the prostrations. Many years ago when I was discovered Islam as a sunni, to my surprise, I remember friends of mine had already noticed that on my forehead, and same with you Asana or anyone else if you observe Salaat five times a day, look at yourself very closely in the mirror under proper light, and you will see an almost indistinguishable, very slight mark. No one wil notice that mark unless they know you are Muslim and look very closely.

?I seek refuge in God, from satan the outcast?
When you utter this phrase submitting to God?s command in 1698, Salaat has not started yet. It starts with the takbir. Furthermore in 1698 when it is said ?When you recite the Quran, seek refuge in God from satan, the outcast.?, satan is mentioned beside God, but obviously as being rejecting from God and our lives. Is 1698 a verse from Quran or from some evil forces ?!

As for reciting the Quran in Salaat, I will simply say that Salaat is not just about establishing contact, it is a two way communication between God and us. We Glorify Him and I cannot agree more that sura 1 is the perfect glorification, and He responds to us when we recite the Quran and we meditate on the message he sent to us.
As I said in the article, it is especially recommended to recite the Quran in our Salaat at Dawn (177, and 2945 is very clear about it as well. I did not make it up, and I would never dare to claim (God forbid) it is haraam to recite the Quran during Salaat as it would be creating a false prohibition. We know how catastrophic it is to create false prohibitions.
It is absolutely wonderful to observe Salaat five times a day, recite sura 1, and a few verses or suras from the Quran on which we deeply meditate and make the Quran part of our daily lives.

To Loxbox 13

I patiently detailed the five times frames allocated to Salaat in my article. You can only accept it if you understand that 5039-40 is about Salaat time frames involving physical ?prostrations? (regular plural = 3 or more, as in 5040). People of the book in 17107 ?prostrated? on their chins, which proves that people who claim prostration is not physical are not Muslims but people filled with arrogance and dividers. To them their religion, to me my religion (Islam).

As for Rashad Khalifa, he simply opened the door to Quran alone. He made a number of mistakes. He is dead, and we need to move on and focus on Quran alone, as he preached, because following his hadiths subject us to his misinterpretations. Quran is the final messenger.

Duluk al Shams does not mean ?rubbing? in the context of Quran. It is flat wrong, unless you believe the earth is flat and the sun actually touches the line of the horizon rubbing it, as Ayman and Wakas seem to believe. As far as I know a few miles separate planet earth and the sun, but I may be wrong.

I took the time to explain in detail in my article that 20130 makes it clear that the time limit to observe Salaat at Sunset is FROM THE DISAPPEARANCE OF THE SUN because the previous prayer is said to be ?BEFORE its disappearance? ( &#1575. (http//www.islamrevolution.org/salaatinquran.htm, section 16.4). It is not one minute before, when supposedly the sun start rubbing the line of the horizon. This leaves only one correct explanation Duluk al shams is the ?decline of the sun? starting at Noon. No other way around it, except for people like Ayman and Wakas who will deny the truth no matter what.

1778 provides the overall time range for the five prayers, showing there is no Salaat between Sunrise and Noon. Other verses unmistakably provide the detail of all five Salaat times frames (http//www.islamrevolution.org/salaatsummary.htm section 17.2.1 to 17.2.5).

The Salaat is not ?standing and prostrating only? as you said it is, I hope you carefully reflect on the following
(2226) And we revealed to Abraham the location of the temple ?Do not associate anything beside Me, and purify My temple for those who do the Tawaf (ritual of circling the Kaaba), and those who stand, bow and prostrate (during Salaat).
The Quran makes ?to bow? and ?to prostrate? intersect FIVE times in the Quran (2125, 9112, 2226, 2277, 4829).

Raka'a has several meanings among which "to have one's back bent", "stoop the head to kneel" (as Mary does in kneeling position before she prostrates in 343). People are free to reinvent the wheel if they want, like Freeminds.
People who do not (1) Stand, (2) Bow, (3) prostrate in their Salaat are not Muslims. They are like satan who arrogantly refused to prostrate when God commanded him to do so. Even a Masjid is literally ?a place of prostration?.

As for Ayman and Wakas and like people, I am waiting for the day they will face God and will be unable to prostrate, because they were filled with arrogance

6842 The day will come when they will be exposed, and they will be required to fall prostrate, but they will be unable to.

Pierre

al adhkane in arabic doesn't mean chins, it means lowest parts
dhakn is shin, lowest part of the face
adhkan are the mowest parts , meaning the ground
the adhkan of the human body are the feet not the chins
the adhkan in general are the gound
One man or woman cannot have chins but chin
when it's chins it means down to the ground or to the feet

who did your interpretation?

[6619]

al adhkane in arabic doesn't mean chins, it means lowest parts
dhakn is shin, lowest part of the face
adhkan are the mowest parts , meaning the ground
the adhkan of the human body are the feet not the chins
the adhkan in general are the gound
One man or woman cannot have chins but chin
when it's chins it means down to the ground or to the feet

who did your interpretation?

Salaam dear Loxbox13,

In my Arabic dictionaries, the root Zaqana means "to strike on the chin", "lean the chin upon" (with 'alaa); Azqan means "chin", sometimes "beard". Some translations render the meaning as "faces" in 17107, I kept the literal meaning as "they prostrate on their chins".
I suggest you check
368
For we place around their necks shackles, up to their chins. Consequently, they become locked in their disbelief.

17107
Proclaim ?Believe in it (the Quran) or not, verily, when it is recited to those who were blessed with knowledge before this, (1st prostration) they fall on their chins prostrating.

I ckecked about 25 translations online, not one goes your way and they unanimously translate "chins", "faces".
I have no idea where you got that meaning, and I understand a little bit more why your translation regarding "raka'a" was so off.

I advice you with all my heart not to listen to some arrogant people on this forum who will be totally unable to prostrate before God on the Day of Judgment, because they arrogantly refused to do so during this lifetime, and because they twisted the original and straightforward meaning of words to fit their horrible agenda Destroy real Islam and follow their own egos.
They do not even pray towards Mecca. They claim Mecca is not the Sacred Masjid when it is cast in stone in 4824-25 (again they distort the real meaning), they lost the five prayers perfectly detailed in the Quran (http//www.islamrevolution.org/salaatsummary.htm, Salaat times 17.2.1 to 17.2.5), they claim there is no lunar calendar in the Quran, and so on. They have completely lost touch with the Quran and Islam. They may be be Free Minds, in reality they are Lost Minds, and certainly not Muslims.
They even allow trashy subjects like defending homosexuality on this forum, when any decent Muslim knows about the lesson of Sodome and Gomorah, and knows full well that homosexuality is an abomination. A guy like Ayman fools people because he uses a scholarly tone in his articles and some uneducated people are impressed, but there is nothing of value in his message, except a complete revisionism of Islam to feed his ego.

This is the last place on earth where you want to learn about Islam; the only reason I am here it is try to help people regarding salaat, then I will take off.

Peace.

Pierre

[kgwithnob]

I advice you with all my heart not to listen to some arrogant people on this forum who will be totally unable to prostrate before God on the Day of Judgment, because they arrogantly refused to do so during this lifetime, and because they twisted the original and straightforward meaning of words to fit their horrible agenda Destroy real Islam and follow their own egos.They do not even pray towards Mecca. They claim Mecca is not the Sacred Masjid when it is cast in stone in 4824-25 (again they distort the real meaning), they lost the five prayers perfectly detailed in the Quran (http//www.islamrevolution.org/salaatsummary.htm, Salaat times 17.2.1 to 17.2.5), they claim there is no lunar calendar in the Quran, and so on. They have completely lost touch with the Quran and Islam. They may be be Free Minds, in reality they are Lost Minds, and certainly not Muslims.
They even allow trashy subjects like defending homosexuality on this forum, when any decent Muslim knows about the lesson of Sodome and Gomorah, and knows full well that homosexuality is an abomination. A guy like Ayman fools people because he uses a scholarly tone in his articles and some uneducated people are impressed, but there is nothing of value in his message, except a complete revisionism of Islam to feed his ego.

This is the last place on earth where you want to learn about Islam; the only reason I am here it is try to help people regarding salaat, then I will take off.

Exactly Pierre, just see the verse 2543,44 among so many in The Qur'aan for description of these ingrates.

I do recommend that you stay and continue your JIHAAD. At least you may be able to reach the innocent newcomers and "bystanders" and preventing them from getting lost. That is the whole purpose of propagating the true Islam according to The Qur'aan. That is the mission according to the principles of PROHIBITING VICE & ADVOCATING VIRTUE.

Peace,
Khalil

[mmkhan]

Salaaman Asana,

Salam mmkhan

Thanks for the reminder ?I know the meaning of the word of Zalika but the point is that when it gets translated if we say ?that Book? the reader get confused of which Book God is talking about?.An Arabic reader would understand it by heart it?s talking about Quran but not for an English reader.
If you look at the some translations in English you would see it?s ?this? instead of ?that?.

Peace
Asana

Please check on AlKitaab http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601702.msg268251#msg268251

Hope you like it inshaAllah

May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.

Mohammed M. Khan

[loxbox13]

Salaam dear Loxbox13,

In my Arabic dictionaries, the root Zaqana means "to strike on the chin", "lean the chin upon" (with 'alaa); Azqan means "chin", sometimes "beard". Some translations render the meaning as "faces" in 17107, I kept the literal meaning as "they prostrate on their chins".
I suggest you check
368
For we place around their necks shackles, up to their chins. Consequently, they become locked in their disbelief.

17107
Proclaim ?Believe in it (the Quran) or not, verily, when it is recited to those who were blessed with knowledge before this, (1st prostration) they fall on their chins prostrating.

I ckecked about 25 translations online, not one goes your way and they unanimously translate "chins", "faces".
I have no idea where you got that meaning, and I understand a little bit more why your translation regarding "raka'a" was so off.

I advice you with all my heart not to listen to some arrogant people on this forum who will be totally unable to prostrate before God on the Day of Judgment, because they arrogantly refused to do so during this lifetime, and because they twisted the original and straightforward meaning of words to fit their horrible agenda Destroy real Islam and follow their own egos.
They do not even pray towards Mecca. They claim Mecca is not the Sacred Masjid when it is cast in stone in 4824-25 (again they distort the real meaning), they lost the five prayers perfectly detailed in the Quran (http//www.islamrevolution.org/salaatsummary.htm, Salaat times 17.2.1 to 17.2.5), they claim there is no lunar calendar in the Quran, and so on. They have completely lost touch with the Quran and Islam. They may be be Free Minds, in reality they are Lost Minds, and certainly not Muslims.
They even allow trashy subjects like defending homosexuality on this forum, when any decent Muslim knows about the lesson of Sodome and Gomorah, and knows full well that homosexuality is an abomination. A guy like Ayman fools people because he uses a scholarly tone in his articles and some uneducated people are impressed, but there is nothing of value in his message, except a complete revisionism of Islam to feed his ego.

This is the last place on earth where you want to learn about Islam; the only reason I am here it is try to help people regarding salaat, then I will take off.

Peace.

Pierre

368
For we place around their necks shackles, up to their chins. Consequently, they become locked in their disbelief.

Of you read this translation it doesn't make sense, because chained to the chins doesn't make u bot abke to move, but chained to the ground, it doesn't not allow u to move, , just think about it, unless allah is talking non sense

17107
Proclaim ?Believe in it (the Quran) or not, verily, when it is recited to those who were blessed with knowledge before this, (1st prostration) they fall on their chins prostrating.
This one to , it said yakhorou ila adhlan, meaning fall to , nit for on adhkan
This one give a litteral meaning of prostrating to the ground, a physical one
Chins is a pluriel , Dhakn it's pluriel is not Adhkan, it's Dhoukoun
Read the ancient arabic poetry, the time of islam and before islam, you see trees fall to adhkan, or a house fall to adhlkan, or a warrior fall to adhkan
Put in your mind something, most people who read the quran alone have influence on sects

Allah know best

[loxbox13]

A correction for my previous post

Salaam dear Loxbox13,

In my Arabic dictionaries, the root Zaqana means "to strike on the chin", "lean the chin upon" (with 'alaa); Azqan means "chin", sometimes "beard". Some translations render the meaning as "faces" in 17107, I kept the literal meaning as "they prostrate on their chins".
I suggest you check
368
For we place around their necks shackles, up to their chins. Consequently, they become locked in their disbelief.

17107
Proclaim ?Believe in it (the Quran) or not, verily, when it is recited to those who were blessed with knowledge before this, (1st prostration they fall on their chins prostrating.

I ckecked about 25 translations online, not one goes your way and they unanimously translate "chins", "faces".
I have no idea where you got that meaning, and I understand a little bit more why your translation regarding "raka'a" was so off.

I advice you with all my heart not to listen to some arrogant people on this forum who will be totally unable to prostrate before God on the Day of Judgment, because they arrogantly refused to do so during this lifetime, and because they twisted the original and straightforward meaning of words to fit their horrible agenda Destroy real Islam and follow their own egos.
They do not even pray towards Mecca. They claim Mecca is not the Sacred Masjid when it is cast in stone in 4824-25 (again they distort the real meaning), they lost the five prayers perfectly detailed in the Quran (http//www.islamrevolution.org/salaatsummary.htm, Salaat times 17.2.1 to 17.2.5), they claim there is no lunar calendar in the Quran, and so on. They have completely lost touch with the Quran and Islam. They may be be Free Minds, in reality they are Lost Minds, and certainly not Muslims.
They even allow trashy subjects like defending homosexuality on this forum, when any decent Muslim knows about the lesson of Sodome and Gomorah, and knows full well that homosexuality is an abomination. A guy like Ayman fools people because he uses a scholarly tone in his articles and some uneducated people are impressed, but there is nothing of value in his message, except a complete revisionism of Islam to feed his ego.

This is the last place on earth where you want to learn about Islam; the only reason I am here it is try to help people regarding salaat, then I will take off.

Peace.

Pierre

368
For we place around their necks shackles, up to their chins. Consequently, they become locked in their disbelief.

Of you read this translation it doesn't make sense, because chained their necks and to the chins doesn't make u not abke to move, but chained to the ground ,this doesn't not allow u to move, , just think about it, unless allah is talking non sense
if the shackes are in theur necks means to their chins because the chained necks are chains to the chins , iy'a a repetition in this case the same thing, ,but the chains in their necks to adhkan, to the ground makes them not able to move , in your translation they added " locked in their disbelief " they assed this because it doesn't make sense so they addes a metaphore to it, because the verse doesn't say in their disbelief, it just says they can't move perod
event though, they added in their disbelief to give a metaphoric meaning, they gave it wrong, because chained in the hearafter in front of angels and all cannot be in a disbelief, everyone will believe in the hearafter

17107
Proclaim ?Believe in it (the Quran) or not, verily, when it is recited to those who were blessed with knowledge before this, (1st prostration they fall on their chins prostrating.
Notice, it says lil"adhkan and not aala adhkane the letter in the begining give it a sense of direction, meaning to the ground
This one to , it said yakhorou ila adhlan, meaning fall to the ground
This one give a litteral meaning of prostrating to the ground, a physical one
Chins is a pluriel , Dhakn it's pluriel is not Adhkan, it's Dhoukoun
Read the ancient arabic poetry, the time of islam and before islam, you see trees fall to adhkan, or a house fall to adhlkan, or a warrior fall to adhkan
Put in your mind something, most people who read the quran alone have influence on sects

Allah know best

[6619]

Exactly Pierre, just see the verse 2543,44 among so many in The Qur'aan for description of these ingrates.

I do recommend that you stay and continue your JIHAAD. At least you may be able to reach the innocent newcomers and "bystanders" and preventing them from getting lost. That is the whole purpose of propagating the true Islam according to The Qur'aan. That is the mission according to the principles of PROHIBITING VICE & ADVOCATING VIRTUE.

Peace,
Khalil

Salaam dear Khalil,

Well done citing verse 2543-44. It is who they are, on the Day of Judgment they will be obliged to reveal what they are. Whoever arrogantly refused to prostrate physically and mentally before God will be irremediably exposed and it will be impossible for them to prostrate, their arrogance will be exposed. Right now they are playing and they feel so flattered that some innocent (and sometimes not so innocent...) people who lack experience and knowledge fall in their spider web.
They will bear both their sins and the ones of those they misguided on the Day of reckoning.
I would like to tell you that I am totally involved in the JIHAAD, God willing until my last breath. I cannot spend too much time here right now, because I have plans to fight arrogant people like Freeminds and others in an a more effective and lasting way. I will be back periodically, God willing, with more proofs until they will be so blatantly exposed that sincere people will shun them, and realize how horrible they are, God willing.
I thank God from the bottom of my heart I know that a number of people have already greatly benefited from the very important information in the article on Salaat (http//www.islamrevolution.org/salaatsummary.htm) Once they understand the purpose of the FIVE daily salaat time frames and how precisely described they are, it makes them literally bullet proof against the liars.

To Loxbox13 regarding 368, here is a more litteral translation than the first one I posted

Behold, around their necks We have put shackles, an allegory of their deliberate denial of the truth." See notes on 135 and 3433.] reaching up to their chins, so that their heads are forced up; (Translation and commentary Muhammad Asad)

And another one
Since they have chosen to neglect Our revelations, We have thus put yokes round their necks right up to their chins so their heads are raised up. (Malik)

Those who refuse to prostrate in Salaat will be speechless on the Day of Judgment.
To finish, another verse to expose people who claim there are only two ritual prayers in Islam
You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers (salawat = regular Arabic plural = 3 or more entities), as well as the middle prayer (al Salaat al wusta), and devote yourselves totally to GOD.

Two prayers per day !? you gotta be kidding me ! brickwall

Peace and god bless !

Pierre

[ayman]

Peace Pierre,

If the chins of the people the book listening to the recitation of the Quran did not touch the ground while they prostrated, then I am completely astray and arrogantly deny the truth, and Ayman and Wakas are guided.
If their chins actually physically touched the ground during their prostration, then Ayman and Wakas are astray and arrogantly deny the truth, and I am guided regarding the fact that prostration is a physical prostration.

Same case for 4829. Only people filled with arrogance refuse to prostrate physically and well as mentally before God in their ritual prayers. As for the mark due to prostration, as I said in my article, it is not the type of self inflicted mark that al Qaida type of people inflict on themselves. It simply acknowledges that the foreheads of those who submit to God actually touch the ground. People who observe Salaat 5 times a day have an almost indistinguishable mark on their foreheads due to the prostrations. Many years ago when I was discovered Islam as a sunni, to my surprise, I remember friends of mine had already noticed that on my forehead, and same with you Asana or anyone else if you observe Salaat five times a day, look at yourself very closely in the mirror under proper light, and you will see an almost indistinguishable, very slight mark. No one wil notice that mark unless they know you are Muslim and look very closely.

You are hypocritically contradicting yourself. Do you prostrate to the chin as the god said (if you understand sujud physically) or do you disobey him and prostrate to the forehead because you think you know better? It is a physical impossibility for your chin and forehead to be on the ground at the same time.

Also, you lied and claimed that you braught some some new observations but you haven't told everyone what new better understanding you have achieved beyond what every misguided sectarian already blindly follows from his or her forefathers.

Finally, do you have any better argument against any of my articles other than that they sound scholarly while yours sound amateurish?

Peace,

Ayman

[Mazhar]

Do you prostrate to the chin as the god said (if you understand sujud physically) or do you disobey him and prostrate to the forehead because you think you know better? It is a physical impossibility for your chin and forehead to be on the ground at the same time.

What a great scholarly observation!

Place a video camera in action and prostrate. Later see the video in slow motion to observe movement of every part of body, particularly face. And then again see whether the words depict the same image or otherwise.

[ayman]

What a great scholarly observation!
Place a video camera in action and prostrate. Later see the video in slow motion to observe movement of every part of body, particularly face. And then again see whether the words depict the same image or otherwise.

No one needs a video to tell him that sectarians who understand falling to the chin in prostration as physical actually do it to the forehead and not the chin. Maybe you can post a video of you to show otherwise if you have an abnormally long chin.