[Salaat] Are you aware ?
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Peace "Badr",
I think I have to clarify something here. NO RELGION, including Islam, has to date ANY INDEPENDENT scientific evidence that backs up any of it's historical claims via archaeology. Hence for you to claim anybody is denying history here is ridiculous. Thus most members on this forum use reason and logic and apply that to Quranic verse to discover what is accurate about rituals, if such exist at all and the history of Prophets and messengers since only the Quran has archaelogical backing dating back about 1400 years. Hadith were written 200 years after the Prophet according to documents and even there we don't have archaelogical evidence to back it up. Mightve been written just a couple of centuries ago. GOD Bless!
allah ask us to pray
he revealed the way of the prayer to his prophet
the prophet follows the orders given by allah
he showed to the muslim how to pray during at least 11 years
thousands of muslims witnessed the prayers thousands of times
all those who follow the sunna (hundreds of millions) agree on the way of prayin the number of raka etc..
do you mean the traces we recieved could be more wrong than right ?
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Peace "Badr",
allah ask us to pray
JK- If salat actually means prayer which i still think it does and yes dua=prayer too and we're recommended to do that too, though not compulsory.
he revealed the way of the prayer to his prophet
JK- WHERE in the Quran did GOD ever state that He specifically revealed a unique and new salat method to the Prophet or any method of salat for tht matter? To my knowledge there is no such verse. The first time we find salat in the Quran is in connection with Abraham but even that doesnt mean there has to be a specific physical method.
the prophet follows the orders given by allah
JK- He does but there is no evidence of the claims you state above.
he showed to the muslim how to pray during at least 11 years
JK- WHERE is the evidence to back this up and i dont mean biased relgious dogma but independent historical evidence backed by archaeology?
thousands of muslims witnessed the prayers thousands of times
all those who follow the sunna (hundreds of millions) agree on the way of prayin the number of raka etc..
do you mean the traces we recieved could be more wrong than right ?
JK- 1000 of Christians supposedly witnessed Jesus dying on the cross and then raised 3 days later claiming he's God. These stories of beleivers mean nothing without actual archaelogical evidence for which there is none in both cases. In other words it is mostly hearsay with little or no verifiable truth behind it. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr",
JK- If salat actually means prayer which i still think it does and yes dua=prayer too and we're recommended to do that too, though not compulsory.
JK- WHERE in the Quran did GOD ever state that He specifically revealed a unique and new salat method to the Prophet or any method of salat for tht matter? To my knowledge there is no such verse. The first time we find salat in the Quran is in connection with Abraham but even that doesnt mean there has to be a specific physical method.
JK- He does but there is no evidence of the claims you state above.
JK- WHERE is the evidence to back this up and i dont mean biased relgious dogma but independent historical evidence backed by archaeology?
JK- 1000 of Christians supposedly witnessed Jesus dying on the cross and then raised 3 days later claiming he's God. These stories of beleivers mean nothing without actual archaelogical evidence for which there is none in both cases. In other words it is mostly hearsay with little or no verifiable truth behind it. GOD Bless!
the evidence is the oral then writting system of transmission, the same that has been used to preserve the quran.
theres also a difference between seeing an event once and seeing it 5 times a day during 11 years by the most truthful and trustworthy muslims.
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Peace "Badr",
the evidence is the oral then writting system of transmission, the same that has been used to preserve the quran.
JK- NO the Quran has archaelogical evidence i.e. the oldest copies can be dated back appx 1400 yrs and are preserved in Museums. No hadith date back that far. Infact i dont even know of hadith dating back 250 yrs after Muhammad. IF the Quran just came here by oral transmission for 100 yrs before it was written down it wldve not been much trutworthy either had there not been a sperate mathetaical code integrated into it that would distinguish it from the non divine text. According to the evidence ive witnessed both is the case with the Quran and non is the case with hadith.
theres also a difference between seeing an event once and seeing it 5 times a day during 11 years by the most truthful and trustworthy muslims.
JK- A claim of sight is not like seeing. How do you even know that anyone saw anything and the whole thing isnt just made up? Do you know how delusional people can be and that even if there was eye witness testimony how unreliable that can be? Hence we use DNA and other physical evidence which tells a much more accurate story of what actually happaned? As i said theres no indepedent archaelogical evidence backing any of this up. GOD Bless!
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Hi Badr.
Who is denying anything here? Nowhere did I say ?I deny every historical fact?. In fact there is so much in history that I don?t know it all, so i may not even have an opinion about it. Anyway what evidence of history are we going by? The hadith of salat? Isra miraj? Would be good if you supplied us with that historical fact.
Anyway. i do not want you to believe that people never saw the prophet do salat. why would i want that? believe as you wish. I rather would want you to tolerate others and release God knows absolute truth; God knows best.
You take history for granted as full of honesty due to ?outnumbered? practices. You don?t think corruption exists? I believe many things were transmitted over the years and later things were put on paper. I don?t agree that the things recorded were totally truthful. I believe things were altered, even on paper. That?s my opinion through my studies. Each has their own theory.
And my question was relevant, not so show people?s lack of sincerity but to prove God doesn?t make deen difficult, if people can?t do what they believe is right, whats the purpose of flagging their approach?
Refute the 5 pillars? Dude if you just took one sura from the Quran 103 you?d realise life isn?t just about conformities.
A lot of rules in the sunnah? I bet there are heaps. Rules that must be followed? That?s a whole new ballgame. Can you give an example, i?m curious.
Whether it's congregation or friday, there must be salaat during it "But when the prayer is ended, then disperse abroad in the land and seek of Allah's grace, and remember Allah much, that you may be successful." (Al joumou3a10)
And who is denying salat in that verse?
I never said it is obligation, read my post. On the other hand you who follow strictly the quran should consider this "Arise the night, except for a little -Half of it - or subtract from it a little -Or add to it, and recite the Qur'an with measured recitation." (732-4)
Sure you never said it was obligation, you mentioned if people considered salat as more than 5. A peculiar question because people could make more salat if they wished, there is no defined limit.
What about the verses 732-4? Notice it doesn?t even use the word ?salat? but mentions recitation of The Quran ?waratili alqurana tirtelan?
1-it is also also for any worship way, a meeting place (that's why men have to pray in mosques... to meet and grow relationships and unify the community of muslims)
Glad you realised it?s not just for prayer, so you answered your own question and ?men? to unify the community. What do women do? Sit at home and look pretty?
2-in 919 it is Masjid Al Haram wich is the Kaaba not a regular mosque.
If that be the case what is your point? You misrepresented the meaning of the verse, re-read what you said
And what are the mosques made for ? Do you know any mosques where people pray 2 or 3 times ?
"Only he shall visit the mosques of Allah who believes in Allah and the latter day, and keeps up prayer and pays the poor-rate and fears none but Allah; so (as for) these, it may be that they are of the followers of the right course." (919)
God gave us his laws to unifie us and made us brothers and sisters in islam so we can grow together as a community and the prophet brought us a set of every day life precepts that would make us better. It is not about a method in life because it really depends of the country you live in and your personnality and alot of other parameters but it's more a way of life and a way of thinking. God loved Muhammad and put it over all mankind by giving him the responsability to deliver the divine message so if the Most High loved him why wouldnt we ? see, a Michael Jackson fan would listen to his songs all day and maybe dress and act like him and all, is it abnormal if we follow our prophet and try to find what he did and did not to act in his footsteps ?
I never said don?t love the messenger of God. Why wouldn?t you if it?s Quran you follow if you truly believe it is divine? We?re not fanatical fans who need to imitate people in all aspects of life. If you follow hadith Aiysha describes the prophet as the walking Quran. So if you?re to follow in his footsteps, it?s not too difficult is it, most of us have the Quran right? If you?re going to go on about hadiths, go verify the prophet authorisation of them then go ahead and act in his footsteps. God gives us parables to learn from, He gave us minds to use, He gave us all different personalities. not to be robots. Not to be fanatical fans. To think, to ponder, to act to do. Every time has its own circumstances.
If you assume that sunni muslims are blindfollowers consider that you are also blindfollowing the sunna rejecters as I'm sure you did not spent more than a few years (maybe a few months) to study the subject while people spent their entire life on it.
So by your definition all sunni muslims spend their entire life on studying a subject while me not more than a few years (maybe a few months). If you knew me your statement might be half decent but you don?t. You?re just coming up with some waffle. It?s like you?re trying to offend by using ad hominem. If you think all sunni?s study their whole entire life you seriously need to wake up and get out there in the world. And no not all sunni?s are blind followers but to a greater degree they are, even those who don?t wish to do taqleed they blind follow authority of hadith. There are few people who study in depth. If you think sunnism today is the same as what it was during prophets time, you should consider reading up history on islam.
I?m human, i follow things to the best of my knowledge I may blind follow things until i know better at least i?m aware of myself and my bias and where i am headed. Im not haughty headed in thinking i?m perfect. I know i have much to learn, it doesn?t mean they?re right and i?m not besides time is irrelevant. You could work out something quicker than another person. Does that mean your studies are futile?
In fact, I took the opposite way as most of yall, I used to disbelieve in the sayings of the prophet but I indeed acknowledged my bias.
So you never accepted alleged sayings of the prophet, now you do. Why is that? was it the comfort of togetherness? the comfort of "normalisation"
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allah ask us to pray
Where?
he revealed the way of the prayer to his prophet
Ask US to pray and revealed the way secretly to Prophet?
Why?the prophet follows the orders given by Allah
Where?
he showed to the muslim how to pray during at least 11 years
Where?
thousands of muslims witnessed the prayers thousands of times
When? Where? Who?
all those who follow the sunna (hundreds of millions) agree on the way of prayin the number of raka etc..
Hmm.... did Allah used the word "Sunnat AlNabi" or "Sunnat AlRasool" or "Sunnat Mohammed" in ENTIRE AlQuraan?
do you mean the traces we recieved could be more wrong than right ?
482?
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
Where?
Ask US to pray and revealed the way secretly to Prophet?
Why?
Where?
Where?
When? Where? Who?
Hmm.... did Allah used the word "Sunnat AlNabi" or "Sunnat AlRasool" or "Sunnat Mohammed" in ENTIRE AlQuraan?
482?May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. KhanYou have alot more questions than I do and you always be asking questions because from where you see the whole picture you can't have answers.
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You have alot more questions than I do and you always be asking questions because from where you see the whole picture you can't have answers.
But he is the one answering your questions and you are the one not answering his, so it's you that has no answers for what you claim. If you knew your stuff like he does, you would be able to answer.
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But he is the one answering your questions and you are the one not answering his, so it's you that has no answers for what you claim. If you knew your stuff like he does, you would be able to answer.
Yes he's answering, reread his post, are you the advocate of every one or is it personal with me ?
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Yes he's answering, reread his post, are you the advocate of every one or is it personal with me ?
it's personal with you. You are providing the best debates at present and I have not been in for a while, so I'm enjoying it. Do you have a problem with me asking stuff or the stuff I ask?
Is it because I'm a woman as you're not complaining at anyone else asking you stuff. '( -
it's personal with you. You are providing the best debates at present and I have not been in for a while, so I'm enjoying it. Do you have a problem with me asking stuff or the stuff I ask?
Is it because I'm a woman as you're not complaining at anyone else asking you stuff. '(At least things are clear now )
I have no problems with your questions when they are serious.
Now you accuse me of sexism ?
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At least things are clear now
I have no problems with your questions when they are serious.
they are always serious. ???Now you accuse me of sexism ?
No, that was a question, an accusation would be me saying "It is because I'm a woman as you're not complaining at anyone else asking you stuff." but I put "Is it because I'm a woman as you're not complaining at anyone else asking you stuff." which means it was a question.
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they are always serious. ???
No, that was a question, an accusation would be me saying "It is because I'm a woman as you're not complaining at anyone else asking you stuff." but I put "Is it because I'm a woman as you're not complaining at anyone else asking you stuff." which means it was a question.i know, just playin.
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You have alot more questions than I do and you always be asking questions because from where you see the whole picture you can't have answers.
I know brother, you just don't answer any question except a few
But you just twist the words and ignore the questions asked.
Anyways, atleast it gives a clear picture of yourself.
Hey! Do you know why is ask
16
16 Guide us to the straight path.Just think.... again.... again....
OK, lemme tell you. We ask for the straight PATH not a station where we can stop.
In other words, we have update and update and update and update ourselves till our end... that is the PATH. When you stand in a so called satisfied place, by FIXED rituals without any update, then you are standing in ONE PLACE and you are NOT on the path.
Got my point? I hope so, inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all towards HIS PATH.
Mohammed M. Khan -
I know brother, you just don't answer any question except a few
But you just twist the words and ignore the questions asked.
Anyways, atleast it gives a clear picture of yourself.
Hey! Do you know why is ask
16
16 Guide us to the straight path.Just think.... again.... again....
OK, lemme tell you. We ask for the straight PATH not a station where we can stop.
In other words, we have update and update and update and update ourselves till our end... that is the PATH. When you stand in a so called satisfied place, by FIXED rituals without any update, then you are standing in ONE PLACE and you are NOT on the path.
Got my point? I hope so, inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all towards HIS PATH.
Mohammed M. KhanThis have no sens ! none can say he's on the path nor on a fixed place, we all try to walk on the path but as we are human we derive from it sometimes but we must do our best to stay on it. It is a journey and we do all what we do to stay on that path and that is not guarantee.
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16
16 Guide us to the straight path.It shows as if one is journeying on some other path and desired to be taken to another path. What has been stated immediately before this does not permit such perception.
Our Sustainer Lord Ar'Reh'maan! You guide us upon the Path that keeps heading safely and straight to the destination of peace and tranquility; the Path journeyed by those upon whom You showered blessings, this Path/Course is other than of those who made themselves liable to criminal cognizance/arrest, and nor is of those who are the neglectful wanderers.
Having submitted, sincerely and exclusively in absolute allegiance and servitude, to the Sustainer Lord Ar'Reh'maan, we reflected that we have complete perception of time and space and our location on the Straight Path. The Path is for journeying in progressing and ever changing times towards the Destination-Place of Rest. We have requested for continued guidance in every moment and steps of our journey on the Path that keeps heading safely and straight to the destination of peace and tranquility.
And thereat we mention our perception and understanding about the Referred Path that it is the one which is journeyed by those those people who were the recipients of showers of mercy and reward; and conversely we define this Path as opposite of the one adopted by those people who have since been held guilty for criminal cognizance; and of those who are willfully and neglectfully wandering lost in directionless bewilderment, deliberately being irrational and forgetful that there is always, in time and space, the "Star"/The Book to indicate the True Direction.
Word by Word analysis of 106-07
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This have no sens ! none can say he's on the path nor on a fixed place, we all try to walk on the path but as we are human we derive from it sometimes but we must do our best to stay on it. It is a journey and we do all what we do to stay on that path and that is not guarantee.
My dear friend, there is a difference in 'Walking on the path' and 'playing the same track' . When you walk on the path, you will encounter new things as you proceed. And we have to go ahead facing everything comes in our way towards Allah.
But you seems to be repeating on the same track, again and again and assume that you are ON PATH. I am sure, on your path , you can walk even by closing your eyes, as your tracks are already printed on ground. And we have to keep our eyes, ears and hearts open to see and face what comes in the way.
Got the difference? Does it make sense now to you?
May Allah guide us all towards the correct PATH.
Mohammed M. Khan
