Why I left so called "islam"....
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We muslim have been guided in matters of belief for 1400 years. We ask Allah to help us in following the commands of Allah.
But you and your beliefs never existed in history. You're still developing your theories about islam. Odd, isnt it? And then you ask for guidance? Do ask for guidance from Allah and be open-minded.
The Quran states only God can guide so the scholars therfore cannot unless God wills. Tony's quote of 931 is a good example of how God does not wnat us to follow the 'immaculate' scholars.
The beliefs have existed longer than the hadith since they did not merge long after the Quran making all muslims before the hadith 'rejectors of the prophet' because they followed the Quran alone. Correct ? roll
Critiscism of the hadiths are not something new either, its just the victors are the writers of history so its not readily heard of.
Criticism of the hadith, even the rejection of the hadith theory advocated by Imam Shafi`i, is not something new. Criticism of it existed from the earliest times.
Hadith a Re-Evaluation by Kassim Ahmad
http//free-minds.org/books/kassim8.htmpz
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Hadith a Re-Evaluation by Kassim Ahmad
http//free-minds.org/books/kassim8.htmpz
Dear brother,
We are not talking about criticism of the hadith. It even existed during the time of caliph Abu bakr. There is nothing new about that.
The point is your BELIEFS. The fundamentals of your group never existed. Its an entire new group that NEVER appeared. The fact that the people on this site are still developing their strange opinions about islam shows that it never existed.
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Hadith a Re-Evaluation by Kassim Ahmad
http//free-minds.org/books/kassim8.htmpz
Dear brother,
We are not talking about criticism of the hadith. It even existed during the time of caliph Abu bakr. There is nothing new about that.
The point is your BELIEFS. The fundamentals of your group never existed. Its an entire new group that NEVER appeared.
I dont understand, the beliefs are soley based on the Quran. Obviously this belief had to have existed before the hadiths because the hadiths didn't exist until quite sometime after the Quran, which would make the beliefs of those who follow the Quran older than the beliefs of those who follow the QUran and Hadith? Correct ?
I do not think there are any solid fundemntals of the group of people on this boards besides a belief in one god, thats existed longer than the Quran.
Just a question, how would you classify 'their' fundemantel beliefs ?
The fact that the people on this site are still developing their strange opinions about islam shows that it never existed.
I can only be held accountable for my self and not everyone else so i can't say wether or not others are still developing thier opinions on Islam or not.
As of hte present, I have concluded that Islam means 'submission'. That wasn't to hard, I am now trying to understand to the best of my ability what exactly it is that the Quran states on its own. The Quran states that God reveals it bit by bit and not all at once, perhaps this is why peopple hear on the site are still developing thier opinions.
You should try it, read the Quran free from others biases and you should be amazed at what it really states and the simplicity of the message and how hard it is for us to do such a simple thing, that is , serve God alone (imo). It's the same with the canonized bibles, if you read the four gospels fre from others biases you'd have to be blind not to wonder how Christianity is what it is today.
Just think everything over, God gave you a brain for a reason.
pz
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peace
These are God's revelations that We recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?" 456
"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6114
"You will find that the Sunna of Allah is the only Sunna" (3362....3543.....4823)
The only duty of the messenger is to deliver God's message" 599 (also in 592.... 1635.......1682.....2454.......2918.....4248.......6412)
"It (the Quran) is a revelation from the Lord of the universe. Had he (Muhammad) uttered any other teachings, We would have grabbed him by the right, and We would have severed his Wateen (Major artery of the heart), none of you could have helped him." 6943-47
"Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171.....also Sahih Muslim)
For the first 150 years to 200 years after the death of the prophet the writing of his hadith was forbidden, in accordance with his commands. The first one to document a comprehensive collection of hadith was Al-Bukhari (Note that Al-Bukhari was born in the year 198 After Hijrah..........does that make you think????)
Even if we were to follow the hadith, how accurate can a collection of sayings documented two centuries after the death of the prophet be?????
God commands the prophet in the Quran to say that he is infallible in the revelation he delivers, but that he may commit errors in his personal words and hadith
"SayIf I err , I err because of my shortcomings, and if I am rightly guided it is due to the revelation I receive from my Lord" 3450
In spite of that confirmation and also 6 incidents in the Quran when the prophet is reprimanded by God, for errors he committed, the worshippers of Muhammad claim that he was infallible!!!! These 6 incidents are found in (867-68......943.......9113-114........ 3337..........661.........801-11 )
The Quran confirms that for every prophet there will be enemies of the devils of humans and jinns who will fabricate fancy sayings and attribute them to the prophet to deceive the people
"We have permitted the enemies of every prophet, human and jinn devils, to inspire in each other fancy sayings, in order to deceive" 6112
God also asserts that only the disbelievers will listen to such fabrications (see 6113)
The Quran is not in need of an annex since it is complete
"The word of your Lord is complete in truth and justice" 6115
The Quran is not in need of an explanatory supplement since it is clear and is not ambiguous
"A.L.R. These are the signs of the clear book" 121
"We have made it (the Quran) easy to understand and in your own tongue (language) may you take heed." 4458
The Quran is not in need of a correction manual since it is perfect and harbours no contradictions
"A.L.R. This is a book whose verses have been perfected" 111
The Quran is not in need of a step by step guide since it is fully detailed
"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6114
As God promised in the Quran, His Hadith (Quran) will be always , the BEST HADITH (3923), the MOST ACCURATE HADITH (487), and the " NOT FABRICATED HADITH" (12111).The (Last) Farewell Sermon
{(1) The Opening Statement of the Sermon It has the CORRECT SHAHADA, i.e. La Elaha Ella Allah.}All Praise is due to Allah, so we praise Him, and seek His pardon and we turn to Him. We seek refuge with Allah from the evils of ourselves and from the evil consequences of our deeds. Whom Allah guides aright there is none to lead him astray.
I BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH (La Elaha Ella Allah), the One, having no partner with Him. His is the sovereignty and to Him is due all praise. He grants life and causes death and is powerful over everything. THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH ( La Elaha Ella Allah), the One; He fulfilled His promise and granted victory to His bondsman, and He ALONE routed the confederates (of the enemies of Islam).
{Compare this Shahada with the Shahada of God, the angels and those who posses knowledge as stated in the Quran in 31. ALSO REMEMBER THAT THE SHAHADA of the Hypocrites in mentioned in 631, where the hypocrites insist on changing God's First Commandment (Shahada) and add Muhammed's name to La Elaha Ella Allah. Muhammed will complain to God from them on the day of Judgment for deserting the Quran where the true correct Shahada is mentioned in 318,
Verily I have left amongst you that which will never lead you astray, the BOOK OF ALLAH, which if you hold fast you shall never go astray. And beware of transgressing the limits set in the matters of religion, for it is transgression of religion, that brought destruction to (many people) before you.
Shiites changed this version of the Sermon to read, the book of Allah and my family, while the Sunnites changed it to read, the Book of Allah and my Sunnah. Only the version that talks about QURAN ALONE is the only one that does not contradict the QURAN and does not have any political motive behind it. It is the version ignored by the sects of the Sunnites and Shiites because it does not support their political agenda.}
{Here are the references to the three versions of the Sermon
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I leave with you Quran and Sunnah Muwatta, 46/3
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I leave with you Quran and Ahl al-bayt ,Muslim 44/4, Nu2408; ibn hanbal
4/366; darimi 23/1, nu 3319.
- I leave for you the Quran alone you shall uphold it.
Muslim 15/19, nu 1218; ibn Majah 25/84, Abu dawud 11/56. }
Those who are seeking to obey the Prophet Muhammed and follow his steps have it easy because they got the book that God promised to preserve, the BEST HADITH (Quran). Obeying the prophet Muhammed is to follow his message, the Quran and Quran alone. When the prophet Muhammed died he left behind ONLY one book completely written and preserved, i.e. the Quran. He never left any Hadith books. These books are the innovations added to Islam about 150-200 years after the death of the prophet
Say, 'We believe in God, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters.'"
if sunnis and shias are on the right path do they really accept all messengers with no distinctions amongst them or do they say peace be upon muhammad in there prayers? was that really sent down to abraham issac jacob moses and jesus when muhamamd neevr existed in those times? do they really think abraham issac jacob moses and jesus said peace be upon muhamamd in there prayers?
i wonder
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Humbly yours,
Amanda
\Ask yourself the question. These beliefs of the submitters movement, when did they appeared in history?
Just be a muslim...follow the mainstream muslims. I hope you know that islam forbids new sects.
Ansar,
Are you still here propogating lies? Its your satan doing the talking is it not. Lets face it Allah forbid sects in His Qur'an, people here denounce sects and call themselves muslims, its you who are labelling us and its you who create pseudo sects. Furtthermore, its you who calls himself sunni or whatever. By your own admission you are the sectarian, yet you are shameless enough to ascribe it to others.
So away with the lies! You fool no one pal!
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Hadith a Re-Evaluation by Kassim Ahmad
http//free-minds.org/books/kassim8.htmpz
The fact that the people on this site are still developing their strange opinions about islam shows that it never existed.
And how would you prove that claim of yours pal? By referring to the chinese whispers i.e. hadith? But if you had any sense, and stopped paying lip service to the Qur'an you would not be suffering these mental delusions.
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If you have read my other posts i also said that you'll notice that 50/100 years ago, your group and your beliefs didnt exist.
But my statement is still correct, ALL of your beliefs never existed even during the time of rashad khalifa. They just appeared now.
There is no conclusive evidence there was no one who did not follow Qur'an alone. Infact, the very proof is in the Qur'an that Prophet Mohammad followed GODs commands alone and not his own injunctions...
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Tell me how do you do that, since the quran is 'fully detailed'?
Does anyone else feel sick with the hypocrisy? shock What he means is he deos not believe the Qur'an is complete, hence what he is saying is he disbelieves in GOD revelation, he rejects. Is it possible to come to any other conclusion?
Zoroastrians did not pray like the muslims. Besides that, there are many similarities between Islam and zoroastrianism. Even without the hadith. The same counts when you compare islam with Judaism and Christianity.
A hypocrite would expose himself in his next breath, they did not pray like muslims conclusively, and note he is a sunni and he tells the "truth" and in the next breath there are similarities with zoroastrianism.
Hence what he is saying is that he can not prove that zoros did not pray like muslims but he just confirmed the similarities. And remarkably he sites Christianity and Judaism, forgetting the fact that many concepts have been corrupted by Christians and Jews in Islam...Similarities he seems to advocate seem to represent the truth whereas he never considered it as a proof of dilution of original islam....
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Hadith a Re-Evaluation by Kassim Ahmad
http//free-minds.org/books/kassim8.htmpz
Dear brother,
We are not talking about criticism of the hadith. It even existed during the time of caliph Abu bakr. There is nothing new about that.
The point is your BELIEFS. The fundamentals of your group never existed. Its an entire new group that NEVER appeared. The fact that the people on this site are still developing their strange opinions about islam shows that it never existed.
The fundamentals of Quran never existed? Thats what is being discussing here!
If there is something strange in religion, they are the hadiths and sunnah of Bukhary and company. Utterly strange/ weird.
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salam
the heritage of bukhari menas alot becasue if u look at the religion of iranians before islam and see the similarities that are in existence in todays hadeth from him it almost mirrors zoroastrians religion which was irans religion before islam so i dont see how something from god would be copied from zoroastrians which were fire worshippers makes uthink was his ahdeeth infulenced from his beleif that he was raised with or perhaps his former beleif or contires beelifs infleunced him as to which hadeths to accept or reject
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salam
hi there is a thread on this site i dont know if you have read it
here it is i will look for other articles inshalalh
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1799
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salam alaykum
i did a search and found this
also
http//www.zoroastrianism.cc/discussions_8.html
salam
ps here is how i searche dit u may find more but i have not read all of them that came up on the search engine
http//www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=zoroastrianism+influence+on+islam&spell=1
ok hope that helps inshalalh
amanda
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Salam Amanda,
Thanks for sharing your story with us.
I have read the whole thread. one thing Ansar and other sunni keep bringing it is the question of hadith validation. We are ALL agree the Hadith opposition existed long in history since prophet Muhammad (pbuh) death. Sects came into being because of using those hadith as SOURCE OF GUIDANCE and FOLLOW THEM BLINDLY. Now This issue is not new. As famous thinker Allama Gulam Ahmed Pervaiz did a research on Hadith and sect issues. I strongly encourage you check following website.
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/BA_Parwez.htm
After conducting his reasearch on Quran and Hadith Books, he came to a conclusion that Hadith books cannot be used as source of guidance. The point is this movement of Quran/GOD ALONE is not NEW as claim by some. Think about it Hadith books that sunnis follow came into being about 200 or 250 years after Prohet death and during those years Islam is considered to have a golden Age. Transformation from Golden Age to Dark age begin to start as soon as people were forced to take Hadith as a source of Guidance. I just still don't understand How come sunni/Hadith Advoacte cannot see this?
Now Once we eliminate Hadiths as a source of guidance, we have to solely depend on ONLY ONE SOUCE which is QURAN. I beleive if we all sinceraly follow the Allah Guidance through Quran, there will be no sect and whole world will be muslim because only Quranic principles can make our life perfect in this life and hereafter.
I would say Let's Muslimize World.
May Allah Give us true guidance.
Best Regards
Kashif -
Assalam Alaikoum everyone amanda your story sounds so familiar i also met some strange people along the way and have all but lost my islam at this point but there is something that makes me struggle on and was doing a search and found this amazing site i also feared the jinn in the toilet at one point and many other strange things but when a sister told me that losing my job and being put on the street was the will of Allah (swt) i just couldnt cop that yeh im sure it was part of gods plan but to have it said to you like that and to say fear Allah ive always been closer to things i loved and this is also true of god when i began to fear more than i loved i lost that amazing spiritual feeling i had with god and huge love and turned into something sinister and ugly anyways this site has given some spark even at 3am looking forward to seeing more of everyone take care all