Esoteric/mystical understanding of The Quran.
-
I had a superficial look at them. It seems to be quite a bit of sufism. Not really anything I haven't been through already. Nice to see that he sees a universal religion, at the core of the religion.
-
I think sufism is a bit obscure. I tend to base all my religious views, on The Quran these days. Suprisingly, or maybe not, I am gaining a lot of insight into Buddhism these days, from this. I think Sufism was a lower stage than this, I did listen to some of it, for quite some time. I am starting though, for instance to see Rumis dance, as a way of trying to seek God, but believing God also to be externally, he opens his arms to recieve God, however God tries to tell him, that it is his own consciousness. Therefore spinning, reaching out, and being told that God is inside. However believeing God to be external, still reaching out.
Buddha however, or this may be varying depening on teachings, seems to have passed that stage, and believes his consciousness to be God, or some similar entity.
God is without desires, and this is the state that Buddha seeks. And in this state one may reflect on creation, and realize that all consciousness is God, and God does not err. There is truly no wrong in the world. It is only the creation of God. And this is in the teachings of the Buddha aswell.
-
Goes both ways really. Who was more advanced doesn't really concern me.
Many facets of Buddhism are great; same with Sufism. Various branches of the same tree and whatnot.
I will say, though, with regard to the Mevlevi whirling the dance, like many other spiritual practices, functions on different levels. Exoterically, you have the basic explanation of one hand up to God, or planets revolving around the Sun, etc. Esoterically, however, it is just another form of focus meditation. In this regard, it is similar to acoustic driving (what many shamanistic traditions do, with repetitive drumming), extreme bouts of fasting, rain dances, and the use of certain hallucinogenic substances. Just spiritual technologies through which the initiate becomes increasingly aware of the one consciousness, as the ego melts away.
-
As the "I" drives away in a flower-powery volkswagon. D
heheh.. Not sure if I agree with you on the hallucinogenic part there but.. To each their own, maybe?
I tried to analyse that phenomena from a viewpoint of one who does not use such things.
The primary argument for pro-"entheogens" these days, are that it can help dying patients, relieve the fear of death.
This is their argument, and ofcourse, this does not support use outside this situationHowever they should ofcourse instead go through advanced stages in religion, who also remove fear of death.
Well, other than that I haven't heard much arguments for legalization. I did see neurosoup on youtube also. She is not really giving me the impression of getting deep knowledge of religion, rather the other way around.
Are you sure this about hallucinogenics isn't just a myth?
-
Sure, to each their own. Like with anything, it also has to do with mindset. I've seen Neurosoup's videos as well and she doesn't have much of a spiritual bent, so it's no surprise that her experiences don't really have a spiritual flavor to them. Shouldn't really be looking to someone like her for spiritual insights on entheogens.
The use of certain hallucinogens has a long history, not just relegated to the 60s flower-power generation. D Shamans worldwide have often used them as forms of spiritual practice (ranging from Africa to South America to Central America/Mexico, even Europe and the Far East), for centuries, if not millenia. Look to archaic rituals like the Eleusinian mysteries, and other shamanic rites. There is a lot of literature out there. You don't have to go too far; a signfiicant portion of modern-day users report spiritual benefits as well. Not just relieving the fear of death (though that certainly is part of it). Just another spiritual technology, really. These technologies, at their very heart, aim to bring the practitioner to altered states of consciousness. That's all meditation is, for example. Just different routes is all. Meditation is a lifelong discipline; using something like psilocybin can be a short-lived shortcut to the same goal. Glimpses of the One.
An example of what I meant by what modern-day users report
In 2006, the United States government funded a randomized and double-blinded study by Johns Hopkins University, which studied the spiritual effects of psilocybin mushrooms. The study involved 36 college-educated adults who had never tried psilocybin nor had a history of drug use, and had religious or spiritual interests; the average age of the participants was 46 years. The participants were closely observed for eight-hour intervals in a laboratory while under the influence of psilocybin mushrooms.
One-third of the participants reported that the experience was the single most spiritually significant moment of their lives and more than two-thirds reported it was among the top five most spiritually significant experiences. Two months after the study, 79 percent of the participants reported increased well-being or satisfaction; friends, relatives, and associates confirmed this. They also reported anxiety and depression symptoms to be decreased or completely gone.
-
Steve Jobs is also often qouted by users of entheogens, that "LSD was one of the most important things he did in his life".
And then, you ofcourse have the hippie who's gone tired of it and says "Talking sandwiches is less amusing at the age of 50".Scripturally, I have deduced certain facts
The "tree of eternity" may very well be a psychedelic substance, which after use, Adam falls to earth (from heaven).
One can interpret this, to go from higher morals, to lower. It's quite possible that The Beatels song "help" is about this.
An experience of eternity, seems to be typical, and part of users arguments, for use of the drug.
The Quran also says, "don't touch this tree, unless you should become angels, or live forever".
That the quran states angels here, is ofcourse very interesting. That means that the experience may have religious content.
However, it was Satans doing, of giving them the fruit.
Which means that overall, the experience is satanic.High profile user John Lennon have stated negative remarks about their own use.
John Lennon "I got a message on acid that you should destroy your ego," he later explained, "and I did, you know. I was reading that stupid book of Leary's (Psychedelic Book of the Dead) and all that shit. We were going through a whole game that everyone went through and I destroyed myself... I destroyed my ego and I didn't believe I could do anything."My own thoughts on the subject is much like that of the aged hippie. I don't think psychedelic experience is something of interest to the grown man.
We'll have to differ on this, CD!
-
I pushed mushrooms as far as I could go and I almost killed myself. I believe these are medicinal plants, which Allah created to cure mental illness. They lift the veil between the two worlds reality and imagination. They modulate perception and dissolve harmful mental patterns, like an internal mirror.
Terence McKenna developed an extensive theory around this idea that mushrooms are the original tree of knowledge when we humans lived in the Eden of our grassland phase. But if mushrooms were truly the forbidden fruit, then it would not be left for guessing. Anything harmful for humankind has been explicitly revealed in the Qur'an.
Was there anything special about Thamud's camel? Could it have been a floppy eared rabbit instead? Whether it's a fruit or a camel, the point is the same. They are simply tests from Allah to see if his servants can remain within the boundary of their Lord's command. If not, then you pay.
-
As far as the topic is concerned, I'll be the one to remind everybody about this ayah
(3.7) He is the One who sent you down the Book which contains decisive verses. They the basis of the Book; while others are allegorical. Those whose hearts are prone to falter follow whatever is allegorical in it, seeking to create dissension by giving interpretation of it. Yet only God knows its interpretation; those who are versed in knowledge say "We believe in it; it all comes from our Lord!" However only prudent persons bear it in mind.
So just be careful of re-interpreting the decisive verses.
And also, I believe it was Dr. Nasr, perhaps in Garden of Truth, who said the Qur'an as a whole is a map of the soul's entire journey through life, just as it is a map of the earth's journey from creation to destruction. As above so below. The Fire gets a lot hotter than this.
-
Yes, those who transgress. Which implies that the Quran, supports having a dynamic mindset and thinking, so to not, transgress. And that is a part of trusting ones own consciousness ofcourse. And ultimately learning that conciousness is God.
A lot of the guidance in The Quran, is simply that I think, to spark that light which is within, and to learn to rely on it. And afterwards, one will not need The Quran, in the same way.
A religion of personal development, indeed. And ofcourse eradicating all the idols, that stand in the way.
-
Asalaamu alaykum Paradox,
I couldn't agree with you more! I have identified God with Consciousness for a while now and too have the exact same interpretation and method of interpretation (about heaven, hell, God, the metaphysical) toward the Qur'an as you have described in this thread.
Every atom is a level of consciousness experiencing itself. All is one existence and the Divine is the ultimate reality.
Farhan
-
Walaikumsalaam Mutazilaah.
I am happy to hear that you have similar views to mine, however be aware that I do not think of matter, as God. I separate creation, from The Creator.
I have several reasons for doing so.
In no particular order
- It does not fit typical religious logic. God is eternally the same, and therefore not a creation, that comes and goes.
- It was not a part of my experience of God, 10 years ago. (Judgement Day/Gnosis if you wish) Rather the typical view of creator and created was. Also insight that resembled a big bang'ish nature of creation. Gaining insight into first cause, arguments, however instead based on immanence. It's a bit difficult to explain, but, if one traces ones own consiousness back to the beginning, the first consciousness, one finds God. The exact wording that I experienced is "All words are derived of the first word".
- I did actually become a sufi for a while, but various things led me to doubt sufism, and I researched my religion better, and found that "The Word" is indeed, many places in religion.
This, convinced me that consciousness alone is God, and creation is not consciousness, however created out of nothing (as scripture states).
Thought created and controls everything, in other words. - Definately a nuance you should consider, and think about.
-
Well.
In advanced stages of sufism, one also gets to know spirits. This is ofcourse not special to sufism, but in sufism, the spirits use/abuse the errors you have in faith. So, if you have a God that is external, the spirits will pretend to be this God. But spirits can be offensive. There are good spirits aswell, just as the Quran states. But on the whole, the meeting with spirits, made me doubt the sufistic concept of God. And I thought back at my own experience of God, and that experience was about "The Word". And I researched religion further, and found "The Word" many places. I become conviced that the sufis was wrong.
And I started thinking about it, and much of what is in their teachings is wrong. For instance, sufis teach that, one becomes one with God. This is false, consciousness always is God. Because of the sufis errors, some sufis believe they represent God alone, and therefore should be worshipped by others as God, or having the title "The Beloved". When infact, there is no "becoming one with God". One always is God. And it is everyone. (consciousness).
Some sufis also teach "divine love". This is usually about having an intimate relationship to "God", which is really a spirit. So in reality, it is love of a spirit, not God. This is offensive.
I had several more reasons also, but I cannot remember them now.
Some good came of it though, I learned to be godconscious a different way. You know The Quran states that those who worship God correctly, are protected against spirits. So, I found that meditation on paradox, the transcendent nature of God, is good against spirits. So I did quite a bit of meditation on "I am paradox", when going from the sufi concept of God, to consciousness alone. This is also something you can try - meditation on "I am paradox", and possibly add "creator of everything". Remember that paradox is the transcendent nature of consciousness though.
Atleast that helped me, in difficult stages with spirits, who seemed to try and take the place of God, in my mind.I think it is important that one fully accepts The Quran's teachings on spirits aswell. I don't think many sufis do that. In their world, satan "can be a good spirit". They fail to understand the very nature of that, satan is a disbeliever. Infact, if there is disbelief somewhere, this is due to the illusions of satan. If you can bring this illusion down, by inner or outer dialog, and reflection, you will realise God. So sufis, who are supposedly seeking God, and at the same time, disbelieving in satan as an enemy, carry with them the greatest hindrance, to realizing God. Some sufis also teach immorality, through the use of intoxicants, promiscuity, homophilia, saying "it's all God". But this is wrong. If one is to realize the correct path, one must take the Qurans teachings on these things, seriously. They are all of satan, in The Quran.
The teachings on Satan has got lost, not only in sufism, but to a great degree, in contemporary religion aswell. But as one who has experienced spirits, I can just say that, believe in them! They are real, and is a fundamental part of The Qurans teachings.
Without rejecting satan, one cannot fully realize oneself as a human. And down the road, lies also that which is called heaven.
-
It's getting to be some time ago, prince. I can't really remember. But satan is real, and rejection of him, is a major part of the path. It may be that all seekers will experience jinn. However it also may be that, if you are protected from jinn, (by your godconciousness), you may skip that part entirely. But know that they are real, even if you have no problems with them. If on the other hand, you do have problems with them, try my meditation. Alt. meditate on "We" instead of "I". You can also meditate on the qualities of God, as described in The Quran. For instance, "We are paradox, self-sufficient".
Suppression of Satan is the very key, to progress of society, and worldpeace.
-
As I am going through various stages with this meditation technique, I am also updating it. Currently "I am the paradox that is all life" seems good. If I ever come to a point where I feel I have perfected it, I will surely write something about it.
-
Replies to Paradox
Well traditional literal interpretation, is that one physically dies before judgement day. However, my interpretation is that these are merely poetical likenings, to what is known as gnosis, or what is also commonly called egodeath. This is also an experience of a kind of death, and what comes after, is a kind of rebirth. These expressions are also often used in this context. So what I am saying, is, that judgement day, is something one experiences in ones lifetime. And so it becomes "first life"->"gnosis"->resurrection->secondlife>eternal paradox. However all in one life time. Not really sure if that helped you? Smiley Good to see that you are interested in talking about this.
I agree with this, I think what the nature of a second life is will always be an unknown until it is experienced. Perhaps forms of mysticism can give you a taste.
Yes, the grand void. At death, or after all life is done on earth. Ofcourse there is the question of, if I am God, then I am all life. And if one life ends, another goes on. Am I still alive in this other life. Then one would have to wait, for the whole of the universe, to perish, to reach the eternal paradox. In some ways, this could be a way to defend hindu teachings of reincarnation. Do you understand?
I think we can even tie in genetics to this picture and quantum mechanics ... Deepak Chopra talks a lot about this ... where one can change their biology and their biological clock according to how one chooses to think about life. The more stress you put yourself through and how you cope with and handle/manage stress, along with your level of spirituality, God consciousness, optimism, positivity, creativity, motivation etc. that you bring about through your thoughts, actions, perceptions and intentions, that you can actually alter the physiology of your body including the genetics you pass on to your children! Likewise, I think that our rebirth, reincarnation, resurrection or what have you, will manifest itself in consciousness accordingly as well. How exactly this happens, is a paradox as far as where we stand in modern science and philosophy - but I think we are bound to figure it out one day. Genetics is a fascinating concept in of itself.
- What really is, following God? God is consciousness. This can be seen in the verses about God breathing some of himself, into man and giving him life. The Quran mentions particulary mind. This makes god all life, and this is also something the gnostic gains understanding of, during gnosis.
This makes the mind itself God, and it becomes important to listen to oneself, to follow ones own nature, and to weigh facts, back and forth, to reach the best conclusion. This ultimately, would be to follow God.
I agree ... however unfortunately due to limitations in language and culture Allah (swt) has become a HE ... when in reality the Divine is not a person or a HE as the Jewish/Christian/Muslim traditionalists see the Divine.
- What really is judgement day? In the Quran, Judgement day is the day when the sky opens. And the gnostic who has experienced gnosis, knows it as the day all the stars become visible, when before their infinity were veiled to him. One becomes extremely godconscious, and reach deep insight into religious thought. This, is the same as egodeath. The Qurans first death therefore is a poetical likening, to gnosis, and egodeath.
Personally, I don't think one needs any type of dogma to figure this out. I think even the words of the Qur'an or any other sacred scripture is not needed. Life is a subjective experience and one has to, as you said, retain some type of insight and reflection in order to become God conscious and this results in egodeath and a new spiritual birth.
- What is resurrection?
Many people talk about experiencing God (gnosis) at different levels. And talk about a rebirth. This is the same as ressurection.
I agree ... I certainly do not believe there will be a day when all souls are risen and judged by a man in the sky ... I just don't see how anybody still believes that anymore ...
- What is heaven and hell. Heaven is a state of mind, a good state. The quran describes it as "with rivers flowing underneath", which I interpret to tears of joy. Hell is a negative state. The quran describes it, as a being delivered by a "beast of the earth", which i interpret as related to animal behaviour. Heaven comes from correct belief. Hell comes from wrong belief.
I agree completely again. Heaven and Hell are ultimately experienced ON THIS PLANET as consequences to behavior and actions that we choose within the free-choice we have ... we reep what we sow ... karma ...
- What happens at death then?
The Quran states that everything will perish but God. So ultimately what will happen is that nothing will be left, than gods nature, which is a timeless, spaceless, eternal paradox.
I agree, but I also think that our subjective experience on this planet accounts for something ... as humans we become attached to things in our lives and attached to life itself ... I believe that the Divine must ultimately do justice and allow 'us' to continue to experience a form of reality.
I believe the true meaning of muslim, is one who has surrendered/given up his will, to God. This seems like a neccesary stage, to trust ones divine nature.
EXACTLY!
It has very little to do with religious ritual, including prayers. However if prayer is a part of seeking and learning to trust God, that is a part of ones surrender. This is most likely why it is included in the Quran.
In fact has absolutely nothing to do with ancient traditions and rituals .... however I do believe that meditation (such as Muhammad's Salat or Rumi's Darvish Whirling, or the Chakra meditation of the Hindus) CAN be beneficial, BUT far from required.
wasalaam,
Farhan
- What really is, following God? God is consciousness. This can be seen in the verses about God breathing some of himself, into man and giving him life. The Quran mentions particulary mind. This makes god all life, and this is also something the gnostic gains understanding of, during gnosis.
-
Good to see more people on this line of thought!
Crossposting this here aswell, as a quranic refutation of the earlier discussed sufi-concept of God.
http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/6/103/ "No human vision can encompass Him, whereas He encompasses all human vision for He alone is unfathomable, all-aware."
Quranically, it starts to weigh heavily in my favour I think. angel