Funny description of us - the hadith rejectors! :)
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rahenijaat1
Come on brother, What is this NS.
This is-----I am going to my Allah!
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The early people believed because they saw the Messenger and his Moral.-------Okay!
But rest of the people, until Al-Qiyamah are deprived of "seeing the Messenger and his Moral".
So, how would they believe, the way early people believed?
How would the gap (the Messenger is not here) will be filled?Come up with a clean answer, whatever it is.
The fact is other way round. Many saw him only partially in their life time. We know him fully. His presence is more evident to me than the presence of you and Raaaja on this forum.
What do you think "presence" means? Presence enables you to have some idea and some knowledge about that which apparently exists around you but you cannot claim to know them. What is that by which you can come to know about someone or how someone can make himself fully known to you? The moment you ponder over it, may be you start feeling that he is more present in your vicinity than those whom you see with your eyes.
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This is-----I am going to my Allah!
but before that, ponder on what Mazhar sahib has said..because Allah LOVES Muhammad Peace is upon him a lot and says in his book
You the Messenger, pronounce, "If you people love Allah, then consciously incline yourselves to follow me, in letter and spirit, without in between there being third party intervention, Allah will in response love/appreciate and acknowledge act of you people and for you He will overlook/forgive your wrong-doings"
You, the Messenger pronounce, "If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your spouses and your clans;and the wealth that you have acquired, and the business you people fear recession in it and the residences you are delighted with are more attractive and dearer to you people than Allah and His Messenger and endeavoring/exerting utmost with wealth and bodily/physically for His cause/path then wait until such time Allah proclaims His decision/command.
Certainly there has been for you people an excellently balanced and appropriate example of conduct in the Person of Messenger of Allahfor the one who has been cautiously keeping hope in Allah and the Last Day and he remembered and mentioned Allah quiet frequently/most of the time.
(Now I don't know what should I call a person who says that this Ayat is for the people of that time and is not in function now.)
So when you reach Allah you may have an answer.
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Rana
Wow! Some one with certain Islamic beliefs that fits yours!What is that supposed to mean??? Please make a point.
The label given by Allah serves the purpose well!! and we need not any other label.
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Our Sustain-er Lord! keep/declare us as two Muslims, for ever surrendering for You,and from our progeny a Muslim community, subservient for You;..........
Like I said - we are talking about descriptive labels. It's different. We are Muslims but I still see nothing wrong in being more descriptive when called for.
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Peace Raaajah,
The label given by Allah serves the purpose well!! and we need not any other label.
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Our Sustain-er Lord! keep/declare us as two Muslims, for ever surrendering for You,and from our progeny a Muslim community, subservient for You;..........It is highly doubtful that the god gives meaningless labels and we can empirically verify that meaningless labels are useless. There are many people who are labeled as Muslims by virtue of their birth certificate or their state-issued ID and yet I doubt that this is what the god meant by this passage. If those concepts are not meaningless but they have real meaning that the god conveyed to you then you should be translating them and not hide the meaning behind meaningless labels.
Peace,
Ayman
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What is that supposed to mean??? Please make a point.
Like I said - we are talking about descriptive labels. It's different. We are Muslims but I still see nothing wrong in being more descriptive when called for.
Hmm. Let me rephrase - "I" was talking about descriptive labels
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Peace Raaajah,
but before that, ponder on what Mazhar sahib has said..because Allah LOVES Muhammad Peace is upon him a lot and says in his book
You the Messenger, pronounce, "If you people love Allah, then consciously incline yourselves to follow me, in letter and spirit, without in between there being third party intervention, Allah will in response love/appreciate and acknowledge act of you people and for you He will overlook/forgive your wrong-doings"You, the Messenger pronounce, "If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your spouses and your clans;and the wealth that you have acquired, and the business you people fear recession in it and the residences you are delighted with are more attractive and dearer to you people than Allah and His Messenger and endeavoring/exerting utmost with wealth and bodily/physically for His cause/path then wait until such time Allah proclaims His decision/command.
It is certain that Mazhar sahib doesn't say Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam since he knows that it is a blasphemous statement according to his own translation of 3356
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/033.%20Al%20Ahzaab/033.%20D%20Al%20Ahzaab.htm
It is certain that Allah and His Angels send blessings upon the Distinctly Elevated and Chosen One
O you who declare to have accepted listen this imperative, you people incline upon him with love and praising praying Allah for sending blessings, and you people submit to him salutations showing obeisance in a humble and respectful manner.According to Mazhar sahib the word "salam" means "submit to him salutations showing obeisance in a humble and respectful manner" so you are essentially saying that the god submitted to him salutations showing obeisance in a humble and respectful manner, which is blasphemous and the god be exalted above this.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Rana,
Hmm. Let me rephrase - "I" was talking about descriptive labels )
There is no such thing in linguistics. Let's not create a new category of nouns to escape facing contradictions. What we have are proper nouns and common nouns. If something is a proper name then it is a meaningless label and this is why it is not translated since its meaning doesn't convey truth in the context. If something is descriptive, in other words it conveys truth about what it describes then it is a common noun and should be translated. So we can't have it both ways and create a new category called "descriptive labels" that describes truth and yet is not translated to keep the word Muslims untranslated. It is better to translate it even if we get the translation wrong.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Rana,
There is no such thing in linguistics. Let's not create a new category of nouns to escape facing contradictions. What we have are proper nouns and common nouns. If something is a proper name then it is a meaningless label and this is why it is not translated since its meaning doesn't convey truth in the context. If something is descriptive, in other words it conveys truth about what it describes then it is a common noun and should be translated. So we can't have it both ways and create a new category called "descriptive labels" that describes truth and yet is not translated to keep the word Muslims untranslated. It is better to translate it even if we get the translation wrong.
Peace,
Ayman
Great, first we had a statistician, now a linguist. Frankly I don't care. My basic point being, perhaps made badly (though you could 'try' to understand what I'm saying instead of jumping to correct me via your amazing linguistic knowledge) - that if I want to know a few basic things about someone then I am really glad for labels because they are helpful.
This is completely unrelated to long passages of text that include Arabic on this thread - cos I haven't read those, in case that makes a difference.
So to reiterate, following the same example I set before, if I decide to look for a husband I will definitely be glad for the label 'Quran-only' or 'Quranist' because that will help me avoid a marriage where I may end up completely covered and unable to use facebook, swim, talk to men or make decisions for myself. Yes, I'm generalising, but there is a truth in what I'm saying.
peace
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Rana to Rajah
What is that supposed to mean??? Please make a point.
according to you; your husband should have certain Islamic beliefs that fits yours! that means you have decided that your Islamic beliefs are the ones which are the true one, this closes the door of thinking process.
I have seen lady on this board who when asked by me "what if Allah does not say the same thing, what you think he is saying?" the reply was "I will leave that God"! That was an extreme case but your thought is dangerous one too.They would need to speak English and they would need to have certain Islamic beliefs that I felt could fit with my own therefore I could use those labels to find a person who was suitable
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Rana to Rajah
according to you; your husband should have certain Islamic beliefs that fits yours! that means you have decided that your Islamic beliefs are the ones which are the true one, this closes the door of thinking process.
I have seen lady on this board who when asked by me "what if Allah does not say the same thing, what you think he is saying?" the reply was "I will leave that God"! That was an extreme case but your thought is dangerous one too.They would need to speak English and they would need to have certain Islamic beliefs that I felt could fit with my own therefore I could use those labels to find a person who was suitable
Is it just me - am I not making sense?!!
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It is highly doubtful that the god gives meaningless labels and we can empirically verify that meaningless labels are useless. There are many people who are labeled as Muslims by virtue of their birth certificate or their state-issued ID and yet I doubt that this is what the god meant by this passage. If those concepts are not meaningless but they have real meaning that the god conveyed to you then you should be translating them and not hide the meaning behind meaningless labels.
Peace
AymanAgree with the part in red; but Allah not only labels us but tells us who should be labeled as a Muslim
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.67p.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.67q.gifIebra'heim never had been in the community of Jews nor the Christians, but on the contrary he was perpetually in the state of a Muslim;and he was never ever amongst the idol-worshipers who assign after naming the sculpted idols as partner iela'aha with Allah.
So these are the ones for whom the label Muslim is for.
I see you often use the word God, which word of Quran have you translated as God, curious to know. Thanks and Salaam.
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So to reiterate, following the same example I set before, if I decide to look for a husband I will definitely be glad for the label 'Quran-only' or 'Quranist' because that will help me avoid a marriage where I may end up completely covered and unable to use facebook, swim, talk to men or make decisions for myself. Yes, I'm generalising, but there is a truth in what I'm saying.
Dear Rana without being sentimental, please give it a second thought. Actually what I am trying to say is you have already decided what you want; that is fine you are free to decide, but to say that you need a husband that fits your Islamic thoughts is just closing the doors of further study, Quran may or may not allow swimming in a certain dress, what when you get married with the person who fits your thoughts may change his thoughts afterwards, that happens all the time.
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Is it just me - am I not making sense?!!
You make perfect sense to me. I wouldn't want to marry someone that didn't at least view God in a similar way. I don't plan on opening up my mind by marrying someone with differing views just to be open minded.
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You make perfect sense to me. I wouldn't want to marry someone that didn't at least view God in a similar way. I don't plan on opening up my mind by marrying someone with differing views just to be open minded.
I would like to say I agree! I can be open minded, non-judgmental, and treat friends/others kindly regardless of their social/cultural/religious backgrounds, but marrying someone is a completely different matter. I'd like to think that marriage enables the couple to lift and support each other spiritually. I don't think I will be able to go through that experience if my partner holds different beliefs regarding God/spirituality.
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Peace Rana,
Great, first we had a statistician, now a linguist. Frankly I don't care. My basic point being, perhaps made badly (though you could 'try' to understand what I'm saying instead of jumping to correct me via your amazing linguistic knowledge) - that if I want to know a few basic things about someone then I am really glad for labels because they are helpful.
This is completely unrelated to long passages of text that include Arabic on this thread - cos I haven't read those, in case that makes a difference.
So to reiterate, following the same example I set before, if I decide to look for a husband I will definitely be glad for the label 'Quran-only' or 'Quranist' because that will help me avoid a marriage where I may end up completely covered and unable to use facebook, swim, talk to men or make decisions for myself. Yes, I'm generalising, but there is a truth in what I'm saying.OK, never mind, I didn't realize that your point was about superficial matchmaking and not about any deeper truths.
peace
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Raaajah,
Agree with the part in red; but Allah not only labels us but tells us who should be labeled as a Muslim
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http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.67q.gif
Iebra'heim never had been in the community of Jews nor the Christians, but on the contrary he was perpetually in the state of a Muslim;and he was never ever amongst the idol-worshipers who assign after naming the sculpted idols as partner iela'aha with Allah.
So these are the ones for whom the label Muslim is for.You say you agree but you don't apply what you just agreed to. So if someone puts on his ID card the label "Muslim" does he or she fullfil the truth of 367? Only meaningless labels are left untranslated. If something has a meaning and the meaning conveys truth in the context then it should be translated.
I see you often use the word God, which word of Quran have you translated as God, curious to know. Thanks and Salaam.
It is not God. It is the (definite) god. The word "allah" is in fact an abbreviation of the word "al-ilah", which means "the god".
Peace,
Ayman