Funny description of us - the hadith rejectors! :)
-
Taking "allah" as a proper name is what reduces any statement to nonsense. Anyone can name anything any proper name. For example, anyone can name a stone idol "Allah" since a proper name is just a label. On the other hand, the one true god is not a label but is a universal concept describing truth, in other words a common noun.
Another gem for linguists the world over.
-
aymen
I don't see how you could have reached this conclusion. I didn't say anything about "Muslims", "chief diety" or "Makkah". There wasn't even a town called Makkah prior to the 8th century CE so there can be no such thing as "Pre-Islamic Makkah". Where are you getting this information from?
Well this is highly disputable issue and has been discussed at several places in the past. This can be discussed again at some later stage.
The fact is that "allah"/"al-ilah" means the god and it was used by everyone. You can see that Pre-Islamic Christians used "al-ilah" to mean "allah" as you can see in this inscription
Well the Arab Christians still use this word, and they used it at that time, in-fact the name of Prophet's father was Abdallah he was not a Christian or Jew. There are many other examples that could be given but right now I am concerned with your following quote
It is not God. It is the (definite) god. The word "allah" is in fact an abbreviation of the word "al-ilah", which means "the god". Aymen
At how many places is this abbreviation "allah" (according to you) and the original word "al-ilah" used in Quran, if you can point out it will be easier to understand what you are trying to prove.
Salaam and Thanks.
-
It is not God. It is the (definite) god. The word "allah" is in fact an abbreviation of the word "al-ilah", which means "the god". Ayman
Before we get another "pearl", let me put both the words hereunder and given everybody a chance to abbreviate one and produce another word from it.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00002.%20Allah/3.gif
No one can make a dual and plural out of it since it is a Proper Name. And a proper name is always attributable to only and only one.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.133/2.%20Ilaha%20Alif%20Laam%20Haa/2.gif
This is not a name. It can be dualized and also pluralized. And to associate meanings to it this will have to be associated with some specific person and/or object, who/which is a proper noun.
-
aymen
As you take your time to answer what Mazhar Sahib has brought up, I may comment on your remaining postIn fact in every occurrence of the word ?allah? in the great reading the common noun ?the god? fits perfectly. Take for example, 63 where "al-ilah" (the god) is clearly intended
- ...wa huwa allah fi al-samawati ...
- ...and he is the god in the heavens ...
Actually this example of yours proves otherwise; for me after reading what Mazhar Sahib has posted.
Quran says ?ilahinnas? meaning God of mankind, which negates the existence of another deity for mankind to be worshiped.
if we take it as "the god" it means "the god for man kind" and creates the possibility for "the god for jinns" the god for animals" "the god for heavens" the god for earth" so on and so forth but as I mentioned before Quran says repeatedly
Laa ilaaha illaa alllah ?There is no God except Alllah?No one can make a dual and plural out of it since it is a Proper Name. And a proper name is always attributable to only and only one. Mazhar
-
Laa ilaaha illaa alllah ?There is no God except Alllah?
There exists absolutely no such reality as lord/deity/iela'aha except Allah.
is accusative. In default state nouns are in nominative state. Here it is accusative because of the government of which is particle of absolute negation- negation of species- that renders the noun in accusative state which becomes its noun- Noun of La instead of its original nomenclature "subject of nominal sentence". Illa is exceptive particle, and the predicate of La is elided necessarily, since evident from first two words, negating existence. Non existence shows that those are mere conjectural thoughts and imaginative in nature. Only Allah exists.
-
Dear Mazhar and Raaajah,
So which one you think is the proper name of the creator?
1- Allah
2- Ar-rahamaan
3- Al-haqq (please note that there is no plural for this word in the quran)
Or does he have 3 proper (personal) names?
At which place of 287 occurrences of the word from Root "Haqq" you have found it as Proper Name of Allah?
-
Mazhar,
I cannot find now the verse about "allahou al-haqqou...", maybe you or someone else can remember and point out the verse, that could be helpful. I am sure there is one.
On the other hand, for my previous questions, you can replace choice number 3- with anyone of these
5923
-
Pure logic brother Aymen! makes perfect sense.
Thank youPeace
-
Peace Raaajah,
aymen
As you take your time to answer what Mazhar Sahib has brought up, I may comment on your remaining postWhy waste my time on answering a derranged person? This would be like wasting time discussing politics with Gaddafi. You can see his typical derranged Sunni obsession with genitalia here in his conclusion on 741
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602203.0
We know that the majority of men even today are not aware of this fact that they have stiff erection about four times during the sleep each having a duration of 15 minutes, but quite many know that in the early hour of the morning their organ gets erected without their consent/desire. How many of us taken care that it could be noticed by others around us who are not asleep? Private part is private; its dimensions should not come into the sight/vision of others. Carefulness and chastity demand that we must sleep under the cover of unstitched cloth/sheet [}} to secure sanctity and dignity of our private part.
Actually this example of yours proves otherwise; for me after reading what Mazhar Sahib has posted.
But you didn't address the example. In fact, you don't seem to want to address anything I said. You made a big deal about al in allah being not the definite article. When I proved that it was the definite article since with the addition of li it becomes lillah, you simply remained silent after your argument was 100% defeated. Are you too proud to correct? What is the use of this discussion? If you were in my place what would you do if I made a big deal about an argument and I suddenly shut up when it was defeated and didn't go back and admit my mistake and correct it?
Quran says ?ilahinnas? meaning God of mankind, which negates the existence of another deity for mankind to be worshiped.
if we take it as "the god" it means "the god for man kind" and creates the possibility for "the god for jinns" the god for animals" "the god for heavens" the god for earth" so on and so forth but as I mentioned before Quran says repeatedly
Laa ilaaha illaa alllah ?There is no God except Alllah?
No one can make a dual and plural out of it since it is a Proper Name. And a proper name is always attributable to only and only one. MazharThis is all false.
On the first point, the word "ilah" means "god" and not "the god". So the entire argument is based on a misunderstanding.
On the second point, I don't know how can an educated person propose nonsense such that a proper name cannot be plural. Have you ever heard of the proper name Pakistanis ? Does it apply to one and only one?? How do you expect me to take you seriously when you are copying and pasting such nonsense? Think. It is all very simple but you are making it too complicated for yourself and getting lost in the process.
Peace,
Ayman
-
Pure logic brother Aymen! makes perfect sense.
Thank you
PeacePeace brother and thank you for your understanding. The great reading is pure logic and makes perfect sense when we let go of the cloud of sectarian nonsense and preconceptions.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
-
aymen
On the second point, I don't know how can an educated person propose nonsense such that a proper name cannot be plural. Have you ever heard of the proper name Pakistanis ? Does it apply to one and only one?
We are talking about the Arabic word "http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00002.%20Allah/3.gif here and it absolutely applies to one and only!
On the first point, the word "ilah" means "god" and not "the god". So the entire argument is based on a misunderstanding.
even if we substitute "the god" with "god" the results would be the same as I mentioned above. However if we use "Allah" meaning the only and one "God" the picture becomes very clear.
-
On the first point, the word "ilah" means "god" and not "the god". So the entire argument is based on a misunderstanding.
On the second point, I don't know how can an educated person propose nonsense such that a proper name cannot be plural. Have you ever heard of the proper name Pakistanis ? Does it apply to one and only one?? How do you expect me to take you seriously when you are copying and pasting such nonsense? Think. It is all very simple but you are making it too complicated for yourself and getting lost in the process.
Stupidity prevails when one makes up his mind of having superior knowledge. Those who know basic Arabic can understand the stupidity in calling as "plural" Proper Name, by a linguist in making.
A proper name can never be pluralized while retaining it as a Proper Name. Pseudo intellectuals never remember the basic principles of anything, and keep talking their nonsense.
-
aymen
How do you expect me to take you seriously when you are copying and pasting such nonsense? Think.
No one can make a dual and plural out of it since it is a Proper Name. And a proper name is always attributable to only and only one. Mazhar
now if you think that Mazhar is talking Non Sense and I am copying it then you must have already refuted the following or you think that this is non sense too.
A proper name is in its nature descriptive of only one object and therefore essentially singular. as soon as it becomes susceptible of plurality, as when we speak of twelve Caesars, or seven Jams es it ceases to be a proper noun.
Spain is the proper name of the country and Spaniard has been by some grammarians called the proper name of people; but later is a generic word characterizing any one of great number of persons by their connection with SpainThe Academician
edited by Albert Picket, John W. Picket -
Dear Mazhar and Raaajah,
So which one you think is the proper name of the creator?
1- Allah
2- Ar-rahamaan
3- (please note that there is no plural for this word in the quran)
4- (please note that there is no plural for this word in the quran)
Or does he have 4 proper (personal) names?
-
Peace Raaajah,
now if you think that Mazhar is talking Non Sense and I am copying it then you must have already refuted the following or you think that this is non sense too.
A proper name is in its nature descriptive of only one object and therefore essentially singular. as soon as it becomes susceptible of plurality, as when we speak of twelve Caesars, or seven Jams es it ceases to be a proper noun.
Spain is the proper name of the country and Spaniard has been by some grammarians called the proper name of people; but later is a generic word characterizing any one of great number of persons by their connection with Spain
The Academician
edited by Albert Picket, John W. PicketOf course this John Picket is saying nonsense too. All proper names can take plural. For example, when I say that I have three Mazhars in my classroom, do those people cease to have this proper name and are suddenly real "mazhars" common nouns, which in Arabic mean "appearences"?! People routinely use dual and plural proper names. Haven't you heard about the two Koreas? Again, proper names can be anything singular, dual or plural. Haven't you heard about Bahrain (dual) and Aljaza'ir (plural)?!
Again, proper names can be anything singular, dual, plural. Anyone can give anything any proper name. There is nothing preventing anyone from making some stone idols and naming them Allah and then say to people look at those Allahs or he can name them Allahat in Arabic plural. There are many people who are labeled Muslims by virtue of what is noted on their ID card or birth certificate. This doesn't mean that they are peacemakers. The difference is that proper names are just meaningless labels that don't describe truth and this is why they are not translated. So an idol given by some idolater the proper name Allah is not really the god/allah/al-ilah. The common noun describes truth and is not just a label that anyone can slap on anything.
Peace,
Ayman
-
Of course this John Picket is saying nonsense too. All proper names can take plural. For example, when I say that I have three Mazhars in my classroom, do those people cease to have this proper name and are suddenly real "mazhars" common nouns, which in Arabic mean "appearences"?! People routinely use dual and plural proper names. Haven't you heard about the two Koreas? Again, proper names can be anything singular, dual or plural. Haven't you heard about Bahrain (dual) and Aljaza'ir (plural)?!
Stupidity confounded. Also exposed that Aymen is not yet aware of what are the various types of nouns in Arabic and other languages. Mention of "three Mazhars" by a teacher in a class room will instantly expose that his degree in language is fake.
-
Someone,
Dear open up any book about language, and first study therein the basic perception denoted to a Proper name, adjective and participles. The point will become clear.
Thanks for the advice, but if it were that simple we wouldn't have all this mixing.
Now would you please take some of your precious time and give your answer with some explanation, so that I can follow your line of reasoning, if there is any.