Scholarly article proves earliest Muslims only did salat twice per day!
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peace guest,
Please provide specific Quranic evidence for the following statements of yours (in bold), and provide quotes and/or reasoning where the opposing side said/think what you imply they think/said
Allah taught salat to imam
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This approach condemn people who cannot read. As they cannot read the Quran they wouldn?t know how to perform it. Likewise children cannot be taught as well. These constraints contradicts the Quran
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This approach would have us believe that Prophet Muhammad was carrying a dictionary with him at all time to understand the meaning of Quran - a true absurdity
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With this approach everybody achieves the rank of Prophet Muhammad because they are following the Quran the way Prophet Muhammad did. To validate this claim they would have you believe that there is no wisdom outside the Quran in spite the clear revelation that says Prophet Muhammad was given the Quran and wisdom. They shun this critical understanding to justify their falsehood
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There is no concept of leadership in this approach which violates many Quranic verses. If everybody has to learn everything from the Quran and come to a common understanding then there would be no need for a leader as you already know to do the right things for all possible scenarios - A chaotic system
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peace guest,
Please provide specific Quranic evidence for the following statements of yours (in bold), and provide quotes and/or reasoning where the opposing side said/think what you imply they think/said
Peace Wakas,
Reply to number 2
801 - He (Muhammad) frowned and turned away.
802 - When the blind man came to him.
803 - How do you know? He may purify himself.
804 - Or he may take heed, and benefit from the message.
805 - As for the rich man.
806 - You gave him your attention.
807 - Even though you could not guarantee his salvation.
808 - The one who came to you eagerly.
809 - And is really reverent.
8010 - You ignored himAllah testifies that this blind person is righteous who couldn?t read. But the abnormal approach condemns this righteous blind man because he relied on believers to learn salat and other rituals.
Reply to number 4
The abnormal approach relies on dictionary to explain the Quran. Therefore, the dictionary is higher than the Quran. In other word the dictionary is full of wisdom! If this was the case then Allah would have given Prophet Muhammad the wisdom to consult the dictionary to obtain meaning of the Quran. Thus he would have been carrying dictionary with him all the time. Therefore, this abnormal approach imply Prophet Muhammad had a second hadith = dictionary.
Sorry for not providing the replies to other questions/inquiry at this time. I have a hectic schedule this week. I will respond to the rest very soon.
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Prophet Muhammad was an Imam. He taught his follower the correct way of performing salat which he learned from Allah. Thus, Prophet Muhammad became an Imam by direct appointment of Allah.
Abu Bakar learned salat from Prophet Muhammad. And people learned salat from him.
This does not mean the rank and responsibilities of Prophet Muhammad and that of Abu Bakar is the same. One has the ability to teach the salat and the other can only learn the salat and pass it on.
If Allah raises an Imam to correct a ritual, he will let you know. At that point you can accept him or reject him. That will be your choice.
Hidden assumption once again. What makes you think there is a way to perform salat. The Quran talked about how to perform wadu, but not salat. There is no mentioning of any talk of how to pray in the Quran or any of the previous scriptures. This is what I meant by hidden assumption in these kind of debates. We are assuming without proof.
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I read u were saying 5 salat with a verse, and u didn't show any verse that speaks clearly about 5 salats
the fajr and isha are mentionned by name in the quranwho did bring down the law of how many times we perform salat and how to do it ? it must be Allah , for he show us how to pray, how do we know? through his book that he sent with prophet mohamed
In the hearafter we're gonna take account about the verses of allah if we followed or abandonned, and in tthe book of god two salats are mentionned without others , who do we believe, what we found our forefathers doing or what is in the book of allah ?
By the way, many think salat is not detailed in the quran, it is actually detailed 100% , just as wudu
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Salaam all,
Abu Bakar learned salat from Prophet Muhammad. And people learned salat from him.
Who is Abu Bakar???
Salaat, the most important ritual was taught to an unknown person by Prophet Mohammed, about whom Allah did say anything? Not even took his name in AlQuraan?
But bukhari know him well I think... from where? sorry I don't know his source.
May Allah open our hearts to understand and accept the truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
peace,
I thought this is fairly well known amongst members. It's been discussed on the forum. This was actually one of the most disturbing things I have researched in my study of Islam. I recommend anyone to study up on the Kaba structure and the rituals associated with it and you may be shocked to discover they are almost entirely pagan in origin (the shape, its orientation, the cloth over it, the black stone, kissing of it, its position, its enclosure, spinning around it etc), and also the Traditional Hajj rituals. It is argued however that pagans also done them but that's because they corrupted their true meanings and practice and this was corrected/purified by Quran/Muhammad/etc.
This has largely already been done in the works of Ignaz Goldziher, Joseph Schacht, GHA Juynboll, Fazlur Rahman, John Burton, Patricia Crone, Michael Cook, John Wansbrough, William Montgomery Watt, Norman Calder, Daniel Brown, Aisha Musa, Sir Sayed Ahmed Khan, Kassim Ahmad, Parwez and many many many more. Taken collectively, these works tear into Traditional Ahadith like you would not believe and give a ton of interesting info, even I was surprised by some of it. There is so much info out there. People really need to spread it.
Here is something that might surprise people, in perhaps the most recent hadith overview book written (2009), Jonathon Brown (regarded as a Traditional Muslim scholar) states "Islamic modernism and its 'Quran only' trend have thrived among Western Muslim scholars" and I don't see that trend slowing anytime soon.
I strongly recommend you read this summary by Herbert Berg
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601291.0Make no mistake about it, this is not about Traditional Islam V Quranists, this is about Traditional Islam V Information Age. Whoever puts the most quality info out there will triumph. In the past, Saudi Arabia with its Wahabi Islam and others who relied on feeding the masses one-sided info to maintain the status quo had the great share of the ouput of info, but in the Information Age with the rise of the internet, the output is turning heavily in our favour.
That is why I urge everyone to keep spreading the info. It is really easy with my practical methods, no experience necessary, just spare-time. If you want to take action, personal message me. If you prefer pipe dreams, dont message me.
Wakas, where di you get that quote by Johnathan Brown about Quranic persuasion spreading
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I have given you the Quranic proof that clearly said Allah taught salat to Imams and we are to learn salat from the Imam. You refuse to accept Allah?s words, you are disregarding Allah?s revelation, you are not taking heed. This is your problem!!
2458 O you with trust! (Not only the "imams"...) Let those whom are under your contract and have not yet attained puberty request your permission regarding three times Before the dawn bond, and when you take off your attire from the heat of the noon, and after the evening bond. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
Why would God only mention 2 salat timings here (if there were indeed 5 enjoined on the believers per day)?
Are you saying Abu Bakar mislead us by praying different than Prophet Muhammad OR
Are you saying Uthman mislead us OR
Are you saying Uthman?s follower did it OR
Are you saying his follower did it ORAre you a follower of the quran alone for islam or a follower of Abu Bakr, a follower of a follower of Uthman, etc??!
Five salat timing and salat structure is preserved. Likewise Ramadan and other rituals are preserved as well.
Yes... that's why God bothered to tell us about salat and Ramadan in the quran..
I just identified the categories. You are the one making an issue out of it, giving people the impression that you are a bad thinker. If it does not apply to you then you should not dwell on it.
Allah seals the heart of ill thinking people so that they cannot understand the Quran.I am pretty sure that most, if not all, people here think that you are a bad thinker..
There you go again POM POM lady. I always knew who the Imams were in the verse 2173. And my writing is consistent with the verse. You did not comprehend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is your oxygen deprived brain that equated Imam to some mad man. Bukhari wins big on this one. Bukhari is proud of you. He thanks you.
Can someone create a facepalm emoticon, even if we just have to use it for guest?
Read 436, guest. -
Now available in word text file
www.islam-and-muslims.com/MORNING-EVENING-PRAYERS-EARLY-ISLAM.docx (right click, save as) -
11114 And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day and at the approaches of the night For those things, that are good remove those that are evil Be that the word of remembrance to those who remember.
^^ 3 times a day.
Peace! peace
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There are three prayertimes in the Quran.
#1,#2,#3 i 011.114, 017.078
#1 i 017.079
#1, #2 i 050.039
#1, #3 i 024.058, 030.017, 024.036, 076.025
#2, #3 i 030.018, 038.018
#1, #2, #3, #1, #2 i 020.130 (#1 & #2 is repeated, notice, praise, is repeated.) -
peace HIIS, PU,
Number of salat per day and their timings have been discussed at significant length in previous threads. Most longer term members only regard it as two. Each to their own.
As shown in this thread, even in traditional Muslim history, it was twice per day originally.
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peace HIIS, PU,
Number of salat per day and their timings have been discussed at significant length in previous threads. Most longer term members only regard it as two. Each to their own.
As shown in this thread, even in traditional Muslim history, it was twice per day originally.
Yeah, well, when have traditional Muslims ever been right on everything? The Qur'an says 3 times pretty clearly
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Peace Wakas.
I am aware of this. Not that I have read all of them, or plan too, lol. I did research this on my own though, and arrived at the times I posted.
A reason why only two times are mentioned in some verses, is because recitation is going on at the times, of one of the prayers. So it doesn`t say, "pray now", but rather encourages prayers, at the other times, when recitation is not happening. And as you know, reading/reciting/listening equals prayer.
