Masturbation
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I deduce from the quote and the threads that when you call others utterly devoid of logic, you are actually trying to compensate for your own inadequacy in that area.
Aside from the fact you still have not answered my question, you will be devoid of logic if you cannot explain the logic that led you to "deduce" that.
Peace.
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Not necessarily. Every society has different take on what it decent and what is not. One culture may see physical contact with opposite sex (e.g. shaking hands), is indecent, while another may not. One culture may see that eating a certain animal to be disgusting, while another may not. What is Qur'anically indecent will be explicitly stated, and the rest will be left to us to use our wisdom.
I added "if you are unsure..."
Peace
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Aside from the fact you still have not answered my question, you will be devoid of logic if you cannot explain the logic that led you to "deduce" that.
Peace.
I think I'll borrow someone's logic "It's obvious".
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=MesMorial link=topic=9602352.msg277512#msg277512 date=1301700451]
Your first point only shows that you don't know or believe the Qur'an. Read 733 and use logic (and stop misquoting 732 whilst ignoring the next ayah).Your second point (like your post before that) is as valid as saying it is fine to kick the Qur'an around in secret because it is not hurting anyone's feelings. By attempting to justify masturbation for enjoyment (you seem to be resurging again with that intent) that is all you are doing. Why not write a poem glorifying the eating of pork from a pig that doesn't exist (because you did not know him/her personally). Does the Qur'an say you had to know women specifically to respect them as a whole? Better yet, why not play pornographic computer games because the "people" are not actually real? So what is the difference? Can you explain the difference between that and voluntary (unnecessary) masturbation?
Your third point is tired and misses the fact that after you have sex with a hot girl you will also ignore another hundred. What is your point?
Peace.
Now Now, you know pretty well what i ment on all 3 points, but you go and reply to them like i said something different just to win this argument, sad.
Your third point is tired and misses the fact that after you have sex with a hot girl you will also ignore another hundred. What is your point?
I ment masturbating, we were not discussing about sex here. And who the hell masturbates when he/she's horny? Masturbating is done so you won't be horny again for a certain time, there is not much enjoyment on it thats why only 12 year olds do it for enjoyment.
Now why did you not explain the first two if I was wrong? You asked "who the hell masturbates when he/she's horny?"
That is a stupid question. Finally you change your argument by re-defining the purpose of masturbation (i.e. release and not pleasure!). So as your remembrance and discipline increases, you will feel the urge less. It is also not a matter of simply doing it whenever you think of it. That is simply following such thoughts.
The argument against you was won long ago.
Peace.
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Now why did you not explain the first two if I was wrong? You asked "who the hell masturbates when he/she's horny?"
That is a stupid question. Finally you change your argument by re-defining the purpose of masturbation (i.e. release and not pleasure!). So as your remembrance and discipline increases, you will feel the urge less. It is also not a matter of simply doing it whenever you think of it. That is simply following such thoughts.
The argument against you was won long ago.
Peace.
I forgot to add a NOT at the word when he/she's horny
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I think I'll borrow someone's logic "It's obvious".
Obvious after reading the Qur'an? Have you missed all of the verses I have quoted? Of course you have because you provide a verse which you cannot relate to any argument. You have no definite/developed argument, understanding, view or place in Islam if you cannot understand the basics. It is sad.
Peace.
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And i didnt answer them because you changed the meaning of what i said, if you dont wanna play fair im not just gonna go nice with you.
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Obvious after reading the Qur'an? Have you missed all of the verses I have quoted? Of course you have because you provide a verse which you cannot relate to any argument. You have no definite/developed argument, understanding, view or place in Islam if you cannot understand the basics. It is sad.
Peace.
Plenty of people here have shown you that the verses you quote have little to do with your assertions. Repeating the same thing constantly will not make it true. Being condescending and abrasive to everyone on the thread you even think might disagree with you is sad.
If you can't see this, which you can't or won't...it's pointless to continue any further discussion.
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I forgot to add a NOT at the word when he/she's horny
Who thinks those thoughts when not horny? Again we agree that you only do this thing when you have to. Obviously the stronger you are, the better that is because it is not advisable to do it for enjoyment. If you masturbate because you are horny (as in ready), you should do so for release (i.e. you should probably be able to do it without much thought or effort). If you really believe (have iman), it will not be hard. Logically one should ask for forgiveness before and/or after. The ideal of course is not to do it at all, but we are all human. We should also be able to recongise that it is not halal and consists of temptations towards lewdness of thought with action. Thus we should guard (how many times in the Qur'an does it say that)?
Peace.
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Plenty of people here have shown you that the verses you quote have little to do with your assertions. Repeating the same thing constantly will not make the it true. Being condescending and abrasive to everyone on the thread you even think might disagree with you is sad.
If you can't see this, which you can't or won't...it's pointless to continue any further discussion.
It is pointless for you to continue this discussion since you will be unable to provide one example of someone proving that the verses are irrelevant.
But the more egos, the more amusing it is (egos are like a sixth sense and can be bruised in that way!). My style is my style and is not yours to control.Peace.
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It is pointless for you to continue this discussion since you will be unable to provide one example of someone proving that the verses are irrelevant.
But the more egos, the more amusing it is (egos are like a sixth sense and can be bruised in that way!). My style is my style and is not yours to control.Peace.
If you have selective vision, no one can help you.
Bring the verses on style please.
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My say is that this is one of those threads where you are masturbating against each other. And seems like some of the participants have been doing it at least once a day, despite of enjoyment/release/benefits etc. Or maybe three times a day. So, has it been a good experience so far? Did you get any closer to your Most Beloved? Did you not? At the end of the day the only valid answer is your own honest answer to yourself. Spirit check.
Do you take the connection? Let's hope so. However and no matter what people say, once you get addicted to masturbation (of whatever kind there is) there's nothing that'll beat that fantastic (if illusive) orgasm. So keep on.
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Your own personal value. Prove otherwise.
Guarding private parts, go not night unto fornication, restrain eyes from women to avoid temptation, remember Him standing, sitting, lying, accountable for thoughts/intentions, thinking of lewd scenes means the thought is lewd?
Etc. Masturbate all you want. I do not care but you have little argument.
Your own assumption. Also, a pointless empty statement.
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4712Red herring. Not everything needs be "beneficial." Some things just...are. Sleeping 8 hours vs. 5 hours is not "beneficial" for being a Muslim, one way or the other. And yet our choice in sleep is up to us. Not everything is legislated. You will never realize this, however. You are a braindead sheep, intent on passing off your views as divine dictate. What's worse, you think you use logic simply cause you plaster each post with multiple verses.
Qur?an says sleep was made as rest. Sleeping 8 hours bad if you miss fajr prayer? Qur?an says to guard modesty and always remember Allah (SWT) (enjoying lewd thoughts is forgetting or else you ask for forgiveness because the thought is lewd). The fact that not everything is ?legislated? results in you being a chimp in a playground.
No, "we" don't know anything. I know my own views, and you know yours. Difference is, I don't attempt to force mine on you. Again, your own assumption. Circular statements like "if unsure, examine the principles of the Qur'an" are just laughable. Quite amazing how blatantly you put the cart before the horse.
I don?t force either. I challenge people to refute and provide verses and the obvious principles therein. I also discuss various possibilities because there are many. Central principles answer all questions. Your arguments are dull and your ego is your problem.
My views seem wishy-washy to you precisely because you have this moronic need to label everything, to put everything into a box. I don't. Deal with it.
I do not label anything. I simply employ the principles you cannot answer. I have dealt with it logically, but if you are so sure I am wrong you will not need to reply.
Peace.
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If you have selective vision, no one can help you.
Bring the verses on style please.
Writing style which seems to grate on the egos. But anyway
"Say Every one acts according to his manner; but your Lord best knows who is best guided in the path."
1784
Do you have a path??
Peace.
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My say is that this is one of those threads where you are masturbating against each other. And seems like some of the participants have been doing it at least once a day, despite of enjoyment/release/benefits etc. Or maybe three times a day. So, has it been a good experience so far? Did you get any closer to your Most Beloved? Did you not? At the end of the day the only valid answer is your own honest answer to yourself. Spirit check.
Do you take the connection? Let's hope so. However and no matter what people say, once you get addicted to masturbation (of whatever kind there is) there's nothing that'll beat that fantastic (if illusive) orgasm. So keep on.
I call it demonstrating and educating (in manner if nothing else) plus an exercise in thinking principally (because no-one can guide others). I also use Free-Islam.com since brother Ahmed Baghat also knows that Islam is supposed to be united.
Peace.
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Writing style which seems to grate on the egos. But anyway
"Say Every one acts according to his manner; but your Lord best knows who is best guided in the path."
1784
Do you have a path??
Peace.
Another example of how you tenuously connect verses to whatever you want them to mean and go off on weird tangents. You really don't need to provide anymore evidence for us.
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Here's some advice A piece of weak evidence is weak regardless of how many times it's multiplied. Adding multiple weak pieces of evidence together does not a strong case make. At the end of the day, you still have a weak case. You consistently fail to grasp this fact.
Guarding private parts,
Assuming this pertains to masturbation.
go not night unto fornication
Fornication? Relevance?
, restrain eyes from women to avoid temptation,
Assumption of relevance to this particular situation again.
remember Him standing, sitting, lying, accountable for thoughts/intentions,
Would you remember God while ejaculating into your wife? Answer Yes or No. Then answer how that would substantively be different than remembering God while masturbating.
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4712Relevant quote from that verse, I presume, is "eating as the livestock eat"
So you're taking that small phrase, and broadly equating it to acting like an animal. Then implying that acting like an animal in any way is bad. Then implying that masturbating is acting like an animal. 3 assumptions, one on top of the other. All based on....."eating as the livestock eat."
"Logical" alright.
Qur?an says sleep was made as rest. Sleeping 8 hours bad if you miss fajr prayer?
Deliberately obtuse. Annoying.
The fact that not everything is ?legislated? results in you being a chimp in a playground.
I want to be offended but this is such a lame insult all I can do is giggle.
I don?t force either. I challenge people to refute and provide verses and the obvious principles therein. I also discuss various possibilities because there are many. Central principles answer all questions. Your arguments are dull and your ego is your problem.
If you could have it your way, you'd "force." Under your "unity of Islam" banner. You are no different from any extremist group who condemns anyone who dares veer from the party line. You don't "discuss" anything. You attempt to steamroll everyone with your own personal views, sprinkling tangentially-related verses here and there that do not prove what you think they do.
You are playing with fire here. This business of legislating morality based on the flimsiest of evidence. Very dangerous.
I do not label anything. I simply employ the principles you cannot answer. I have dealt with it logically, but if you are so sure I am wrong you will not need to reply.
Peace.
Simply repeating the words "obvious" and "logically" over and over again doesn't make it so.
For someone who is so against masturbation, you seem to have no problem waving your dick around. It's pathetic and unbecoming.
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Salam,
Masturbation for enjoyment is inadvisable (unless perhaps you think appropriately of your spouse) because firstly that is lewd (the Qur?an forbids that!), secondly it is animalistic (an attribute of unbelief (4712)) and thirdly (but not lastly) it is in no way beneficial for being a Muslim (serving Allah (SWT))
You've fallen short on a few key points in justifying your position.
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Your concept of lewdness is not quranic, thus you've fallen short of proving masturbation is lewd.
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You have decided for yourself that pleasuring yourself is animalistic with no evidence from quran. Your quoting of 47/12 was irrelevant because it doesn't even come close to what you think it says.
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And finally, you have taken it upon yourself to dictate to mankind what is beneficial for being a muslim and what isn't.
It's worth pointing out that fahisha, which some people commonly translate as 'lewdness' is better understood as 'immorality' or 'injustice'. Fahisha is directly contrasted with qisti (justice) in 7/29.
So does masturbation become a fahisha? No, I don't believe it does. Does thinking about sex become a fahisha? No, I don't believe it does either. Put the two together, does it equal fahisha? I don't think so.
The point regarding disrespecting women/men you fantasise about is farcical, as far as I'm concerned. It matters not one iota to me if a woman sits in the privacy of her room and fantasises about me. Nor do I have any right to be disrespected by what goes on in the minds of other people.
'Farjaha' of 24/30 isn't literally to guard your penis. As pointed out already, you can't guard yourself from yourself, nor should you try. The verse itself is metaphorical, given that it begins with 'lower your gaze'. No one takes that to mean literally look downwards.
The point of "exposing yourself to baser instincts" is also a poor argument given that there is nothing immoral in satiating a base instinct. To suggest this is somehow immoral is misguided. Can you prove that satisfying a base desire is bad?
"All pleasures at the expense of remembering Allah (SWT) and His way are inclinations away from Islam (see 4712)"
47/12 says nothing of the sort. It says believers will be rewarded and then gives you the characteristic of a disbeliever. Where are the words that suggest "all pleasures at the expense of remembering Allah" are an inclination away from Islam?
The final point regarding being a better muslim as a result of it... that's for the individual to decide. A regular release may help a person concentrate during the day. Perhaps it helps release stress, which would otherwise build up and have a detrimental effect on other parts of a person's life. Perhaps a regular release makes that person happy. These are good enough reasons to do it, as far as I'm concerned. If it does nothing for you, don't do it.
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That is different to what you originally said. Does the Qur'an clarify what is expected for you?
Peace.
Peace,
Re-read my post. Again, where does it say that exploring my sexuality is forbidden? The current Sunni ruling is that you can masturbate your spouse but you can't masturbate yourself. Can you please explain this logic?