Looking to interview code 19 deniers
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I have VERY STRONG words against it. Will there be censorship?
and Ayman (his whereabouts are unknown).
Not sure how the film crew is going to hunt him down. -
Yeah... Ayman, quick. Change your address. The KGB is after you now.
Well, I like your joke. Indeed the producer of the film, who knows English well, hired an American private agent to find the contact addresses of some people, such as Bill Maher, who is a funny atheist.
Unfortunately, we do not know Ayman's real name and any information to locate him for a Socratic grilling session. I have challenged many detractors for a face-to-face debate, which is much more powerful in exposing contradictions and dishonesty. I know it from my personal experience on live Turkish TV debates, where my opponents had to retract their claims or escape from the studio under the watching eyes of millions of people. The imam in London for instance. He was exposed in front of his own people, and had to escape from the room in humiliation (unfortunately, that was not recorded on video but I listed the names of witnesses in that meeting in my report)... The video clips of some of my Turkish debates are now available at youtube.com
So, in a sense you are right. If I knew Ayman's whereabouts, I would suprise him like those newsreporters confronting Maddoff and other crooks. Ayman and his ilk are worse than Maddoff, since they use their knowledge to distort and hide God's signs.
Peace,
Edip -
peace Edip, all,
If I knew Ayman's whereabouts, I would suprise him like those newsreporters confronting Maddoff and other crooks. Ayman and his ilk are worse than Maddoff, since they use their knowledge to distort and hide God's signs.
I dont see the need to "find" anyone these days for a face to face interview, considering we have the internet. I think an audio narration written and/or narrated by Ayman over a slideshow of his points would suffice.
And for sake of argument, lets say Ayman has used his knowledge to distort God's signs... I do wonder who has contributed more to the understanding of The Quran Ayman or all code-19 supporters put together? To my knowledge I only know of one code-19 supporter who actually does any Quran-meaning based study, and that is you. If you know of anyone else who writes articles on better understanding the meaning of The Quran, let us know, as I've often been curious about that.
I must say that I find the code-19 camp rather peculiar in the sense that they seem to spend a disproportionate amount of time on code-19 calculations/debate rather than better understanding The Quran. Or at least this is the impression I get from various online forums, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Each to their own.
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Indeed. Is 19`ers calculations about righetousness, or is it an occult attraction to numbers?
The number itself is about the 19 angels, that guard hell. The amount of angels is a test, that confounds the disbelievers. "What does God mean by this?" - This must be esoteric knowledge at the highest level. If one should encounter these angels, I guess, as a believer, one would not be confounded.
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I do wonder who has contributed more to the understanding of The Quran Ayman or all code-19 supporters put together? To my knowledge I only know of one code-19 supporter who actually does any Quran-meaning based study, and that is you. If you know of anyone else who writes articles on better understanding the meaning of The Quran, let us know, as I've often been curious about that.
You forgot Layth. He acknowledges 19.
His words "I am a supporter of code 19 as there is sufficient evidence for its existence in the Quran. What I do not support is some of the inconsistent counts and forced conclusions based on erronoeus data."
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Well, I like your joke. Indeed the producer of the film, who knows English well, hired an American private agent to find the contact addresses of some people, such as Bill Maher, who is a funny atheist.
Unfortunately, we do not know Ayman's real name and any information to locate him for a Socratic grilling session. I have challenged many detractors for a face-to-face debate, which is much more powerful in exposing contradictions and dishonesty. I know it from my personal experience on live Turkish TV debates, where my opponents had to retract their claims or escape from the studio under the watching eyes of millions of people. The imam in London for instance. He was exposed in front of his own people, and had to escape from the room in humiliation (unfortunately, that was not recorded on video but I listed the names of witnesses in that meeting in my report)... The video clips of some of my Turkish debates are now available at youtube.com
So, in a sense you are right. If I knew Ayman's whereabouts, I would suprise him like those newsreporters confronting Maddoff and other crooks. Ayman and his ilk are worse than Maddoff, since they use their knowledge to distort and hide God's signs.
Peace,
EdipI don't believe AYMAN will reveal his true identity for many reasons
1 - history westerners of the 18th century enemies and haters of Islam, the quran and the messengers, colonised all muslim countries with no exceptions, one of the most important duties was to alter the system of Islam , and by doing that , the enemy is the quran, so they invented all ahadiths and tafassir and false history of Islam to break the mainstream f the muslim societies , and they get lost , after that they all get independant in the same period, mission accomplishethese people aren't gonna allow any one who dare expose and explain the true explanation of the quran, therefore exposing the true history of humanity before the 17 th century. they will never allow any honest man to expose the truths , but again, they had no problem with people like khalifa , specially a person called messenger f god who had no problem at all with the FBI or CIA or The MOSSAD or all that powerfull people , just because he didn't bother them, what bother them is. the truth, an honest person and a pwerfull one specially..
if you EDIP were on the truth, you will have no publicity for your version of the quran.
Ayman , is a person I don't know where he lives or if he's a good person or not, but according to his vision of things, He is more universal that you, who just created another sect, you're not gonna bother anyone with a sect, there are thousands in every religion, whatbother governments is universal truths, not religion truth
Deen isn't religion
Deen is the Due , we owe God. our conduct and actions, and not mosques and prayers.
re read the quran without any doctrine in your mind be it 19ers or sunni or shiaa or anything, read the qqura and a person who belong to the universe and not to a group or a sect.I don't believe Ayman will reveal himself because of his honesty , and if he does, maybe his honesty will cost him.
this is purely the way i analyse our people here. my personal view, I might be wrong
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When can we expect the final product to be released ? Agree with code 19 or not, I dont see why the video should be uninteresting. Unless ofcourse its like the creationist videos on youtube, people wearing lab coats claiming to be scientists and preaching flat earth ideas.
Allah guide us please )
-------------------------- Student of Allah
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Peace
Why is time and money being wasted on such an endeavour? Out of all the things in the Quran, you are choosing to focus on something that is not explicitly stated in the Quran and that has little bearing on anything. Does the Quran not instruct us not to spend too much time over these verses?
Just like your ABC interview, which went very well until you started talking about 19.
The fact is that '19' is impossible to verify for most as they do not have the ability to go through the Quran counting word numbers, applying numerical values to words etc.
And just like the ABC video, you are unable to explain in any specific way, what code 19 is, except to say that, when it suits you, there is some multiple of 19 so the text must mean X,Y,Z etc.
If you were going to make a documentary, why not make it on how and why the Quran forbids the hadith, particularly as people such as Aisha Musa, Fred Donner etc. have shown historical documentation to support the argument.
What a waste of time and a futile exercise you are performing to boost your own ego.
Roshan
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Peace all,
There are Millions you can interview who disagree with deleting verses 7-128 and 129. However most of them are not code 19 deniers.
Edip, Are you going to admit your disbeliving of 7-128 and 129 in your project?I believe it was 9128 and 129
Peace
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I really don't see what on Earth is the problem. Code 19 or denier of both code AND extra-Quranic teachings, don't we still just believe in the Quran?
Is it really a big deal that one group are skeptical of two verses (out of about 6340) pretty much repeating what is stated elsewhere in the Quran, that God sent us a messenger (Muhammad) who cares about us and told him to tell those who rejected his teachings that God is sufficient and the lord of the worlds, and believe in a messenger after Muhammad who brought NOTHING NEW to the table?
No, not a big deal at all. Code 19 supporters and plain Quranists believe in virtually 99% the same thing. They are not the idiotic traditionalists who will mudsling and come packed with swords and stones confronting one another.
It is a big deal when one group of people believe babies must be circumcised, women must have a nonsensical sexist dress code, men can't shave, and married people must be stoned to death for nonmarital sex, among tons of other pagan teachings and general nonsense, while another group doesn't. The similarities between Sunnis/Shiites and Quran aloners (pro and anti-19ists) isn't even close to 50%.
-M
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Today, one of the most famous American atheists was exposed and literally check-mated in a Socratic debate between me and him on the Quran, its scientific aspect and code 19.
I will write an article on this issue. The docufilm, will inshallah be ready by the end of this year.
Peace,
Edip -
I really don't see what on Earth is the problem. Code 19 or denier of both code AND extra-Quranic teachings, don't we still just believe in the Quran?
Is it really a big deal that one group are skeptical of two verses (out of about 6340) pretty much repeating what is stated elsewhere in the Quran, that God sent us a messenger (Muhammad) who cares about us and told him to tell those who rejected his teachings that God is sufficient and the lord of the worlds, and believe in a messenger after Muhammad who brought NOTHING NEW to the table?
No, not a big deal at all. Code 19 supporters and plain Quranists believe in virtually 99% the same thing. They are not the idiotic traditionalists who will mudsling and come packed with swords and stones confronting one another.
It is a big deal when one group of people believe babies must be circumcised, women must have a nonsensical sexist dress code, men can't shave, and married people must be stoned to death for nonmarital sex, among tons of other pagan teachings and general nonsense, while another group doesn't. The similarities between Sunnis/Shiites and Quran aloners (pro and anti-19ists) isn't even close to 50%.
-M
Yes the code and the miracles of the Quran have absolutely nothing to do with religious guidance(laws). However what if someone were to ask you ? What makes the Quran unique?? , or ? How can you be 100% sure that this book is from God? ? or ? I know scholars who can write a better book than the Quran. What makes this book any different than the 100?s of other religious books written by literary giants. ?
Answer The Quran is not the type of book that can be written by men. The miracles of the Quran play an important role in verifying the authenticity of the book. If the signs wasn't an important part of the Quran then God wouldn?t have included it in his book.
Sura 1788 Say, "If all the humans and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Quran like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another."
The Quran is a unique book because of the message and the signs.
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I really don't see what on Earth is the problem. Code 19 or denier of both code AND extra-Quranic teachings, don't we still just believe in the Quran?
I am not a "believer". Those who beileve in the Quran without reason and evidence, believe in many other books and teachings too without reason and evidence.
Peace,
Edip -
I am not a "believer". Those who beileve in the Quran without reason and evidence, believe in many other books and teachings too without reason and evidence.
Peace,
EdipEvidence proves Rashad Khalifa was not a Messenger. He made numerous mistakes in his teachings.
"If any book contains a few lies (and we have more than just "a few", then, the endorsement of that book is not reliable." 'Quran - A Reformist Translation' Appendix 6 "Why Trash All the Hadiths as Secondary Authority Beside the Quran?", pg. 627
Allah does not make mistakes, nor forgets. Surah 482, 2052
Reason upholds if a man says he is a Messenger of Allah and makes mistakes in his teachings, fabricating falsehood, he is not a Messenger.
Reason upholds following hadith is forbidden by Allah, yet it is still upheld as proven by your removal of two ayats from your Quran translation, among other teachings by Rashad Khalifa upheld in your commentary and Appendices.He professed to represent a returning Messiah and Mahdi, teachings not found in the Quran. This is found in his newsletter and reported on submission.org
http//www.quranalone.com/SP/57_1989_09.pdf
http//www.submission.org/millennium/mahdi.htmlHe made prophecy that did not come true
http//www.quranalone.com/SP/64_1990_03.pdfHe made prophecy of when the Day of Judgment comes.
Only Allah has knowledge of the Hour. Surah 4361-66, 7227Rashad Khalifa claimed he was the Messenger of the Covenant, using Malachi 31 as proof. However, the Messenger of the Covenant is named in Malachi 45.
"See, I will send you the prophet ELIJAH before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes."Elijah, known as Elias (pbuh), is spoken of in the Quran and the Bible. Peace and blessings on all the Prophets of Allah.
Surah 685, 37123-130, I Kings 1820-40
Rashad Khalifa is not Elias.
?And certainly We have made clear for men in this Quran every kind of description, but most men consent naught save denying.? Surah 1789Allah is clear; those who write something and say it is from Allah are Zalimun (alththalimeena); wicked, unjust, evil doers. Surah 2174-176, 394, 693, 625
?Then whoever fabricates a lie against Allah after this, these it is that are the unjust.? Surah 394The Appendices of Rashad Khalifa are nothing more than rewritten hadith.
Muhammad (pbuh) was the Seal of Prophets, the Final Messenger, as the Quran is pure, protected by Allah. As long as we have the Quran, we need no other Message.
Muhammad is Final Prophet, Seal of the Prophets Surah 3340, 381, 2213, 684-89
?And neither would he enjoin you that you should take the angels and the prophets for lords; what! would he enjoin you with unbelief after you are Muslims?? Surah 380Muhammad sent for all nations/beings Surah 3108, 690, 12104, 21107, 251, 3887, 6852, 8127, 3428, 7158, 3340, 4170, 4733, 480, 619, 21107, 479-80
Allah perfected the deen of Al-Islam during the time of Muhammad (pbuh) Surah 319, 385, 53, 6125, 974, 2192, 3922, 4917, 617
Not the people of Arabia, mankind.
There is no need for further Messengers as we still have the Truth with us today.
"Those who listen to the word, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding." Surah 3918Muhammad was the Messenger who verified previous Books Surah 381, 4252, 548, 241, 289, 291, 2101, 303, 692
Let us be clear Those who follow teachings outside of what Allah revealed commit idolatry.
Let us be crystal clear Those who follow the teachings of Rashad Khalifa commit idolatry. They will not be forgiven on the Day of Judgment for their shirk; it is the unforgivable sin.
We are called upon to be witnesses of Al-Islam, giving the good news and warning of the Day of Judgement Surah 9122, 2278, 353-4, 3523, 361-4, 6114
But we are not Messengers."So We have appointed to every Prophet an enemy -- Satans of men and jinn, revealing tawdry speech to each other, all as a delusion; yet, had thy Lord willed, they would never have done it. So leave them to their forging," Surah 6112
It is not too late to change your condition before your appointed term, Edip Yuksel.
Replace the two ayats removed from your translation. There is no proof they are additions, as Allah clearly states no falsehood would enter it, in the past or in the future"Those who disbelieve in the Remembrance when it comes to them -- and surely it is a Book Sublime; falsehood comes not to it from before it nor from behind it; a sending down from One All-wise, All-laudable." Surah 4141-42
Allah protects the Quran. He made this known at the time of revelation. You cannot change the words of Allah.
"It is We who have sent down the Remembrance, and We watch over it." Surah 159
Renounce the teachings of Rashad Khalifa and turn to Allah alone to guide you. You will lose many followers, of course. But does that truly matter when the Hereafter is the manifest reward, and more enduring?
Do not fear man, fear Allah.This is a reminder and a warning about associating partners with Allah.
Following teachings beside what Allah revealed is a form of idolatry. Surah 619, 931, 3031-32
If you continue on this path, then you have made your choice. Enjoy this life. Surah 1430
"and when it is said to him, 'Fear God', vainglory seizes him in his sin. So Gehenna shall be enough for him -- how evil a cradling!" Surah 2206
I'm sorry to hear you are not a believer, Edip Yuksel. It's not too late though.
"And whosoever does deeds of righteousness, be it male or female, believers (mu/minoona)- they shall enter Paradise, and not be wronged a single date-spot." Surah 4124
"Their Messengers said to them, 'We are nothing but mortals, like you; but God is gracious unto whomsoever He will of His servants. It is not for us to bring you an authority save by the leave of God; and in God let the believers (almu/minoona) put all their trust." Surah 1411Proof Guidance
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcRNJNXiOc8May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.
Peace.
