Lost Salafi Here
-
That video is tickly Jafar. True enough the concept of miracle working is for those with an IQ south of ten, but the idea is a recurrent theme in the Quran wouldn't you agree?
I thought abrogation was dealt with in Sura 2 Verse 106.
Allah abrogates previous Messages The Torah and the Injeel. The Quran does not abrogate itself. To do so would create a contradiction, which there are none in the Quran.
The Quran contains a falsification test
"What, do they not ponder the Quran? If it had been from other than God surely they would have found in it much inconsistency." Surah 482
This is a challenge Don't believe it comes from our Creator? Find a mistake.
This is a bold statement. Put this challenge on a test and turn it in to your Instructor, they won't sleep until they find a mistake. But here Allah is making those who disbelieve put their money where their mouth is Prove it doesn't come from Allah.
If the Quran abrogates itself, you would find a contradiction, which proves it doesn't come from Allah.
Bring your proof Surah 2111, 657, 842, 1410, 2124, 2764, 2875, 5238Stray question Does the Quran specify how to perform Hajj or Zakah?
Yes.
Proof Zakat
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqNu7SzmLuIProof Hajj
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=i21uxpnjyXgThe rituals performed by the Islamists are not found in the Quran, but in the teachings of the ancients.
Syncretism Rituals of Hajj
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jY_6d7KBewIf you want the scripts that quote the proofs from the Quran, let me know.
Alhamdulillah. D
Peace.
-
Raging,
How sweeter than a candyfloss to suck from wisdom's fount! But steady, my tiny brain might explode.
In my salad days long before time began or anyone knew what it might be good for I used often to hand out Islamic pamphlets on the much trumpeted science miracles of the Quran so I am familiar with the claims advanced by Muslims. When I say that I find the splitting of the moon idea credulity straining, I do not mean that there are no craters in celestial bodies. The formation of planets after the Big Bang would itself create dents not just in the moon but on every planet including our own with its tectonic collisions. To single out the moon as having cracks in its structure is not to make a cosmological observation; it is more accurate to say that every planetary body has geological upheavals.
Galloping on to more pressing themes ...
Being a vegetarian myself I would like to grapple with an issue that troubles me about Islam. How does your philosophy account for the problem of animal suffering? If human suffering is a test of conviction from Allah, what is the use of visiting suffering on other sentient creatures when animals have no immortal soul that will be tried on the Last Day?
To be clear, what I mean is not animal suffering occasioned by human agency, but why the cosmic tenant would design a predatory food chain in which all creatures live one step away from having their innards torn out by the claws of a superior beast when he might have easily created them vegetarians as some already are. Billions live in constant terror of the laws of predation and billions perish in abject agony.
If animals are not moral agents endowed with free will, to what end is all this colossal suffering?
-
his character is irrelevant, for example, how does one verify truth? by the person who said it? no.
made me think of you
2947 (Asad) For it is thus that We have bestowed this divine writ from on high upon thee . And they to whom we have vouchsafed this divine writ believe in it just as among those there are some who believe in it. And none could knowingly reject Our messages unless it be such as would deny truth
There are things that are unknown. Some things are not necessary to be known but if you actually grabbed a Quran or did a search you would find things to cure your ailment of curiousity. However more answers lead you to questions. So i think you need to get off your high horse of demands and seek knowledge yourself.
Here?s a start off- The prophet is of the purified 3333
- Mohammad is a warner 2950
- God is with the prophet 940
3340 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
4829 Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward
-
Sara
Your post made one shed bucketfuls of tears all night to wash away my sin halting only for prayer and sleep. I wish I was on a high horse my sweet, but I'm afraid to report I'm bestraddling a one eyed donkey. I have spent a number of years "seeking knowledge" as the phrase has it only to be informed by Your Excellency that my knowledge is nothing but mis-, dis-, and non-information. And so my questions.
I like that in the Republic of Faith more answers trigger more questions. Theology is anything about tedious. Can I suck from your fount of wisdom my little rabbit? It's tasty.
Some questions do not admit of resolution you say. And I should not fret much about the heavily bearded Postman bearing the true, the good and the beautiful. Duly noted.
Question of the day Is the Quran, stripped of its tafseer, not hard to penetrate? There are whole pages of it that I could not follow even with the aid of Ibn Kathir because of its poetic style which although very pleasant to recite in Arabic did not make for ready comprehension. It seems cryptic.
-
(1) If one discards the Hadith, on what do you base your knowledge of who the Prophet Muhammad was because the Quran does not shed much light on his life story besides microscopically few lines about his honesty and general good nature. Nothing about his biography.
Ahadeeth are not discarded as the quran is replete with them. The quran is obviously not a personal biography of Muhammad. Simple as that.
(2) From where do you acquire the format of the daily prayers? The Hadith is clear on this score offering minute details about how it's performed , but the Quran is vague beyond measure.
Not from the quran though apparently it can be drawn from it by people. By "vague" do you mean different from what other ahadeeth expound?
(3) What is your view of the Seerah (biography) of the Prophet?
I never read it.
Joe
-
Is the Quran, stripped of its tafseer, not hard to penetrate?
It usually is hard to penetrate when you already have concepts in mind at odds with the concepts in the quran which is why you spoke about the vagueness of "daily prayers". With that you tried to fit one concept with a quranic concept that's not there
Joe
-
It usually is hard to penetrate when you already have concepts in mind at odds with the concepts in the quran which is why you spoke about the vagueness of "daily prayers". With that you tried to fit one concept with a quranic concept that's not there
Joe
I speak not of alien concepts. Just plain intelligibility. As the Quran reader will note, the book has a distinct rhyming scheme. The difficulty is that too often it sacrifices clarity for poetry with cryptic verses like ?Alif Laam Meem? and whole chapters whose meaning is elusive. Amusingly, the very next verse of that ayat is ?Thaalikal kitaabu laa rayba fee? meaning here's a book in which there is no doubt as though anyone understands what the preceding verse meant.
If the book is an extra-terrestrial communication designed to enlighten the race instead of bamboozle why not something which any schoolboy of ten can follow in this fashion
"Dear Sons of Adam,
I wanna share something with you. Many light years ago when I was bored stiff in my bachelor pad I had this notion of inventing some trousered apes to regale me out of which you featherless creatures grew. You?re welcome. I am God by the way. But you may call me Allah.
Now kids, a few cardinal rules. You must tongue my name every day and whoop me up, don?t be mean to each other, and try not to romance the barnyard animals.
Breach any of these rules my young things and you will breakdance in the lowest rung of Jahannam. Got that?
Till my next revelation, so long!
Sincerely,
Allah. ?
Whatever you make of that message, you cannot fault its clarity.
-
Raging,
How sweeter than a candyfloss to suck from wisdom's fount! But steady, my tiny brain might explode.And now we know the limits. P
In my salad days long before time began or anyone knew what it might be good for I used often to hand out Islamic pamphlets on the much trumpeted science miracles of the Quran so I am familiar with the claims advanced by Muslims. When I say that I find the splitting of the moon idea credulity straining, I do not mean that there are no craters in celestial bodies. The formation of planets after the Big Bang would itself create dents not just in the moon but on every planet including our own with its tectonic collisions. To single out the moon as having cracks in its structure is not to make a cosmological observation; it is more accurate to say that every planetary body has geological upheavals.
True, when faced with the breadth of knowledge we know now with the advanced technology Allah has gifted us.
Now put yourself in the middle of the Arabian desert 1400 years ago, and ask yourself if you can honestly make the same statement.
Therein lies the rub.Galloping on to more pressing themes ...
Being a vegetarian myself I would like to grapple with an issue that troubles me about Islam. How does your philosophy account for the problem of animal suffering? If human suffering is a test of conviction from Allah, what is the use of visiting suffering on other sentient creatures when animals have no immortal soul that will be tried on the Last Day?
Human suffering is not a test of conviction, as we are given the right of self-defense after fleeing from persecution. The idea of 'turn the other cheek' is a Christian concept, not upheld in the Books revealed by Allah.
We are to endure patiently with the knowledge that deliverance will occur to those who believe, but we are not taught anywhere in the Quran that suffering is a test of conviction. Allah is very clear on what we are to do, and not to do, in the Quran.To be clear, what I mean is not animal suffering occasioned by human agency, but why the cosmic tenant would design a predatory food chain in which all creatures live one step away from having their innards torn out by the claws of a superior beast when he might have easily created them vegetarians as some already are. Billions live in constant terror of the laws of predation and billions perish in abject agony.
Such is life. Whereas you see horror, I - being raised on a farm in my youth - see the natural cycle of life. Even the plants you rip out of the earth must die for those that consume them to live. They no longer grow, nor suckle water from the soil or branch that held it.
Is their death easier because you cannot hear their screams?
If animals are not moral agents endowed with free will, to what end is all this colossal suffering?
They are signs from Allah and blessings provided by Him.
"And it is God who sends down out of heaven water, and therewith revives the earth after it is dead. Surely in that is a sign for a people who have ears." Surah 1665
"And a sign for them is the dead land, that We quickened and brought forth from it grain, whereof they eat;" Surah 3633
"Hast thou not seen how that God has sent down out of heaven water and threaded it as springs in the earth, then He brings forth therewith crops of diverse hues, then they wither, and thou seest them turning yellow, then He makes them broken orts? Surely in that is a reminder for men possessed of minds." Surah 3921"And of the cattle, for burthen and for slaughter, eat of what God has provided you; and follow not the steps of the satans; he is a manifest foe to you." Surah 6142
"And the cattle -- He created them for you; in them is warmth, and uses various, and of them you eat, and there is beauty in them for you, when you bring them home to rest and when you drive them forth abroad to pasture; and they bear your loads unto a land that you never would reach, excepting with great distress. Surely your Lord is All-clement, All-compassionate." Surah 165-7
"And surely in the cattle there is a lesson for you; We give you to drink of what is in their bellies, between filth and blood, pure milk, sweet to drinkers. And of the fruits of the palms and the vines, you take therefrom an intoxicant and a provision fair. Surely in that is a sign for a people who understand. And thy Lord revealed unto the bees, saying 'Take unto yourselves, of the mountains, houses, and of the trees, and of what they are building. Then eat of all manner of fruit, and follow the ways of your Lord easy to go upon.' Then comes there forth out of their bellies a drink of diverse hues wherein is healing for men. Surely in that is a sign for a people who reflect.
God created you; then He will gather you to Him; and some of you will be kept back unto the vilest state of life, that after knowing somewhat, they may know nothing; God is All-knowing, All-powerful." Surah 66-70Suffering and conflict are the agents of change, as any Sociology student will tell you. You cannot have change in entropy. Even in the timeline of this planet and the extinction events that have occurred, these events of seemingly horrendous suffering have been the course set by Allah to bring us where we are today. There is at no time a lasting peace, but always the ebb and flow, the rise and fall of change brought about by conflict.
Life is pain, princess. Anyone who tells you different is selling something.I hear a lot of 'Why does your God allow suffering?'
Because man wanted to be left alone to their own desires. What steers the rudder of a man who does not believe he will be called to account for his deeds - both manifest and hidden? What will that man do when he believes he can get away with it?How many crimes would not be committed if people realized they will be called to account after we have completed the term of this test called Life?
How much needless suffering occurs from the hands of men?Man is the predator and the world with its inhabitants is the prey. Often that includes preying upon other men.
Signs from Allah.
"The likeness of this present life is as water that We send down out of heaven, and the plants of the earth mingle with it whereof men and cattle eat, till, when the earth has taken on its glitter and has decked itself fair, and its inhabitants think they have power over it, Our command comes upon it by night or day, and We make it stubble, as though yesterday it flourished not. Even so We distinguish the signs for a people who reflect." Surah 1024
But let us speak of the animals below us on the food chain.
Though animals have their natural cycle of predator versus prey, Allah has given us clear dictates on what we are allowed and forbidden to eat. Allah has made clear that carrion, an animal that dies by traumatic incident, is an unclean animal. These acts that cause an animal to suffer unto death are forbidden and clearly detailed."Forbidden to you are carrion, blood, the flesh of swine, what has been hallowed to other than God, the beast strangled; the beast beaten down, the beast fallen to death, the beast gored, and that devoured by beasts of prey - excepting that you have sacrificed duly -- as also things sacrificed to idols, and partition by the divining arrows; that is ungodliness. Today the unbelievers have despaired of your religion; therefore fear them not, but fear you Me. Today I have perfected your religion for you, and I have completed My blessing upon you, and I have approved Al-Islam for your religion. But whosoever is constrained in emptiness and not inclining purposely to sin -- God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate." Surah 53
So while we are at the top of the food chain, even our Creator has made clear that suffering is not something He condones - even in the animal kingdom.
Look to the predators and see how Allah has taught them to slay their prey. What do you find in your observance of their kills?
I thank Allah for cattle, and the meat, milk, and leather they provide. There is so much good in the world He has created, I find it impossible to count His blessings. )
When shown all these signs, the question remains Will you then believe?
May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.
Peace.
-
Question of the day Is the Quran, stripped of its tafseer, not hard to penetrate? There are whole pages of it that I could not follow even with the aid of Ibn Kathir because of its poetic style which although very pleasant to recite in Arabic did not make for ready comprehension. It seems cryptic.
If you aren't seeking guidance, you won't be guided.
Allah knows what you hear, and with what you hear with Surah 820-23, 636, 1747, 2451, 3053, 3918, 4130, 6416
"Answer only will those who hear; as for the dead, God will raise them up, then unto Him they will be returned" Surah 636
"If God had known of any good in them He would have made them hear; and if He had made them hear, they would have turned away, swerving aside." Surah 823
"Thou shalt not guide the blind out of their error neither shalt thou make any to hear except for such as believe in Our signs, and so surrender." Surah 3053Insincere readers are diverted from the meaning of the Quran Surah 7146, 1745-47, 1857, 4144, 3923
"When thou recitest the Koran, We place between thee, and those who do not believe in the world to come, a curtain obstructing," Surah 1745
"And who does greater evil than he who, being reminded of the signs of his Lord, turns away from them and forgets what his hands have forwarded? Surely We have laid veils on their hearts lest they understand it, and in their ears heaviness; and though thou callest them to the guidance, yet they will not be guided ever." Surah 1857At what point will a person turn to Allah and ask Him to explain the Quran?
Who better than the One who created man??And thus have We made for every prophet an enemy from among the guilty, and sufficient is thy Lord as a Guide and a Helper." Surah 2531
?Allah desires to explain to you, and to guide you into the ways of those before you, and to turn to you, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.? Surah 426
"Move not thy tongue therewith to make haste with it. Surely on Us rests the collecting of it and the reciting of it. So when We recite it, follow its recitation. Again on Us rests the explaining of it." Surah 7516-19You read numerous ayats where the Quran is clearly stated to not be poetry, but a Guidance and a Reminder.
What happens when you stop reading it like poetry and start reading it like an Instruction Manual?Let us know what happens.
Peace.
-
I speak not of alien concepts. Just plain intelligibility. As the Quran reader will note, the book has a distinct rhyming scheme. The difficulty is that too often it sacrifices poetry for clarity with cryptic verses like ?Alif Laam Meem? and whole chapters whose meaning is elusive. Amusingly, the very next verse of that ayat is ?Thaalikal kitaabu laa rayba fee? meaning here's a book in which there is no doubt as though anyone understands what the preceding verse meant.
If the book is an extra-terrestrial communication designed to enlighten the race instead of bamboozle why not something which any schoolboy of ten can follow in this fashion
"Dear Sons of Adam,
I wanna share something with you. Many light years ago when I was bored stiff in my bachelor pad I had this notion of inventing some trousered apes to regale me out of which you featherless creatures grew. You?re welcome. I am God by the way. But you may call me Allah.
Now kids, a few cardinal rules. You must tongue my name every day and whoop me up, don?t be mean to each other, and try not to romance the barnyard animals.
Breach any of these rules my young things and you will breakdance in the lowest rung of Jahannam. Got that?
Till my next revelation, so long!
Sincerely,
Allah. ?
Whatever you make of that message, you cannot fault its clarity.
Man.. I love your sense of writing.. wittingly funny...
Ooh by the way there are no such thing as BLASPHEMY in this forum..
Sharia (or halakha) is not applicable here..Quran being elusive... well yes perhaps.. although speaking of 'elusiveness' you should read Tao Te Ching (spelled out Dao De Jing) which I think are more eloquently elusive yet deep in meaning at the same time. Yes even the translated english version it is elusive.
This word-by-word Quran site might help you though..
http//corpus.quran.com/Now let's discuss some of the basic concepts..
Presumably through the Salaful Al-Salih ('The pious ancestors' indoctrination (readintoxication) you've been told that the Quran is God's last revelation in a sense of Him saying"Look dude ! Yes it's only dude! As I don't give a sh%t about the chicks! I've enough of trying to transform your bad-ass ape-ish attitude for centuries.. now this will be the last effort from me trying to enlighten you and reveal something to you... I previously told you things in Hebrew but I got bored of that language.. beside... you silly apes has made a lot of ridiculous additions to My words in Hebrew.. so I thought hey let's try using Arabic this time around.. which I plan to declare as the 'lingua franca' in heaven very soon, as thus from this moment on any prayer which is not in Arabic will be rejected by My kingdom in heaven and will not even received the slightest attention for further processing. And please do understand that I'm busy.. I have a bunch of universes to attend to... so take this as the last gift of revelation and enlightenment from me.. Kapish??"
Which is not the case...
God's revelation is a continuing process my friend.. up until now and up to the future.. and it's not only available through the Quran, Bible or books.. As confirmed in the Quran.. in the past God has revealed and sent revelation / wisdom / teachings through various means and through various messengers to many 'ummah' / nations / group of people on this earth which speaks using their own tongue. In which He continue to do so up until this day and up to the future. He's the one who teach men things which initially they knew not...
In the Quran there are concept which basically being told yet we see today that it's being applied today in the modern world by people who perhaps never ever read the Quran in their lifetime. Such as but not limited to Freedom of thought and belief, people equality / casteless society, basic human rights including anti-slavery, government taxes and many more..
Even in the Quran there are verbose statement which say "It is WE that shall explain it" and "Thus WE explain the signs for people who use REASON" and also "God shall guides whom He wishes".
As thus... seek His revelation, wisdom and guidance from any means, source and channel my friend...
Quran is not the only source for it.. yet HE IS!
He even said as such in the Quran.. "Call on me! And I will answer!"PS I'm too lazy now to put the 'chapter and verse number' please seek it out yourself..
Salam / Peace
-
Human suffering is not a test of conviction, as we are given the right of self-defense after fleeing from persecution. The idea of 'turn the other cheek' is a Christian concept, not upheld in the Books revealed by Allah.
We are to endure patiently with the knowledge that deliverance will occur to those who believe, but we are not taught anywhere in the Quran that suffering is a test of conviction. Allah is very clear on what we are to do, and not to do, in the Quran.
point well taken.
Such is life. Whereas you see horror, I - being raised on a farm in my youth - see the natural cycle of life. Even the plants you rip out of the earth must die for those that consume them to live. They no longer grow, nor suckle water from the soil or branch that held it. Is their death easier because you cannot hear their screams?
Plants do not have nervous systems that can register pain my cherry blossom. Only animals are sentient because pain and pleasure are the products of a brain. The notion that plants can suffer is one that is common to Muslims who don't seem to have paid much attention in anatomy class; were you flirting with the boys? I thought a Quran Aloner might know better than to recycle pre-modern ideas. Come, come, you're letting the team down.
I hear a lot of 'Why does your God allow suffering?' Because man wanted to be left alone to their own desires. What steers the rudder of a man who does not believe he will be called to account for his deeds - both manifest and hidden? What will that man do when he believes he can get away with it? How many crimes would not be committed if people realized they will be called to account after we have completed the term of this test called Life? How much needless suffering occurs from the hands of men?
I'm not sure you've understood my question. To pre-empt confusion I focused my question on the ethics of animal predation. Not human suffering. And nor animal suffering caused by human agency. I know well that human suffering in mainstream Islamic theology is a trial to be patiently borne till the Last Day when the souls of men shall be judged.
My question was given that animals will face no such post-portem accounting, how is their suffering justified?
Or does the Compassionate One not give a flying toss? For someone who espouses belief in evolution and that humans are late comers to the drama of the earth which was populated for eons and eons by dinosaurs and other extinct species how can you assert such an anthropomorphic view that ignores that the globe has been spinning for millions of years without humanity?
So while we are at the top of the food chain, even our Creator has made clear that suffering is not something He condones - even in the animal kingdom. Look to the predators and see how Allah has taught them to slay their prey. What do you find in your observance of their kills? I thank Allah for cattle, and the meat, milk, and leather they provide. There is so much good in the world He has created, I find it impossible to count His blessings.
If Allah does not condone suffering, why did he equip sentient beings who perish in agony by the billions every year with a nervous system with pain receptors instead of making them as insentient as plants? Outfitting them with pain receptors is a conscious decision on his part which he did not have to do.
-
Now let's discuss some of the basic concepts..
Presumably through the Salaful Al-Salih ('The pious ancestors' indoctrination (readintoxication) you've been told that the Quran is God's last revelation in a sense of Him saying
"Look dude ! Yes it's only dude! As I don't give a sh%t about the chicks! I've enough of trying to transform your bad-ass ape-ish attitude for centuries.. now this will be the last effort from me trying to enlighten you and reveal something to you... I previously told you things in Hebrew but I got bored of that language.. beside... you silly apes has made a lot of ridiculous additions to My words in Hebrew.. so I thought hey let's try using Arabic this time around.. which I plan to declare as the 'lingua franca' in heaven very soon, as thus from this moment on any prayer which is not in Arabic will be rejected by My kingdom in heaven and will not even received the slightest attention for further processing. And please do understand that I'm busy.. I have a bunch of universes to attend to... so take this as the last gift of revelation and enlightenment from me.. Kapish??"
Which is not the case...
Yes, that is how I was nurtured to approach the Quran.
So if you believe that God's moral code like human rights are best enshrined in Freedom's Land instead of Absurdistan, does that not make the Quran superfluous? That's interesting.
-
There are simple things to understand in The Quran, for which no-one has variance in interpretation, these are its core, e.g. speak the truth, be charitable, forgiveness, care for orphans etc. I find that people tend to focus on the peripherals yet have not even implemented the basics. See 37.
The Quran is for everyone, with varying degrees of intelligence, covering from individual self-growth to collective/societal, hence its scope and content.
-
You read numerous ayats where the Quran is clearly stated to not be poetry, but a Guidance and a Reminder.
What happens when you stop reading it like poetry and start reading it like an Instruction Manual?
Let us know what happens.
Peace.
To draw attention to the fact the Quran is poetically constructed, that a clear rhyming scheme shapes all the suras, that it is not written in conventional linear prose with a beginning, a middle and an end like the gospels is not to denigrate as Muslims seem to imagine. It's a transparent observation which is why the Quran is so easy to memorise The verses end in rhyming couplets.
It makes for a pleasant recital like all rhymed compositions and like I noted chanting the Quran was one of the few pleasures of being a Muslim, but if the meaning proves as slippery as a burglar making off with his neighbour's loot the instruction manual won't be the most handy.
Suppose you were tasked with the job of composing a message on which hangs the fate of humanity; would you not choose a less ambiguous style than "Alif Laam Meem" ? I'm just a country boy who is intellectually barefoot. Help me.
-
There are simple things to understand in The Quran, for which no-one has variance in interpretation, these are its core, e.g. speak the truth, be charitable, forgiveness, care for orphans etc. I find that people tend to focus on the peripherals yet have not even implemented the basics. See 37.
The Quran is for everyone, with varying degrees of intelligence, covering from individual self-growth to collective/societal, hence its scope and content.
Duly noted. The Quran seems time specific in many instances where it exhorts the believers to follow the Prophet. Typically other Muslims explain this away as a reference to the Sunnah as relayed in the Hadith. Since Quran Aloners reject any such interpretation, do you think parts of the Quran are outdated because you obviously cannot follow the prophet living after his demise.
I will fetch the ayats later because I don't recall the passages off the top of my head, but I wonder what you make of it.
-
Yes, that is how I was nurtured to approach the Quran.
So if you believe that God's moral code like human rights are best enshrined in Freedom's Land instead of Absurdistan, does that not make the Quran superfluous? That's interesting.According to recorded history, the most ancient secular kingdom/country was initially initiated in Iran / Persia..some 2600 years ago or around 1200 years before the Quran... during the reign of Cyrus a.k.a The One With Two Horned a.k.a Dzul-Qarnayn in the Quran.
Superflous why is that? Please note that the Quran did mentioned that 'there's actually nothing new' ..
"Nothing is said to thee that was not said to the messengers before thee" (4143)
(ps as such the notion of 'Quran' bring forth a 'new law' / 'a new commandment' is certainly a fallacy)And human thoughts are somehow 'connected' (through communication).. an idea sprung up initially in China can found it's implementation in Turkey or South Africa. Greek ideas in America, India ideas in Norway.. It's like a chain reaction...
Absurdly.. the evidence on how the 'modern Islamist sect' are found to be a syncretism between Judaism, Christianism, Zoroastrianism, Hellenism, Egyptian Paganism and Arab Paganism proves that there was a 'freedom of belief' within that region during its early conception.
Where people could freely exchanging ideas among each others without the fear of blasphemy or apostasy.
Somehow this 'freedom of belief' wither away due to the strong influences from dogmatic sectarian thinking which was (and is still) prevalent within that region.Salam / Peace
-
Jafar,
Your cosmopolitan ethos seduces me like a woman in the night. Steady, this Beardo's married. Unfaithfully.
Your creed is very forward looking. Perhaps just a bit too modern. For if the divine truth may be plucked from the ether without ever looking between the covers of a book, why did Allah stay up all night to write his masterpiece?
To my eye the allure of faith is that it asserts a degree of moral oneupmanship. Buy into the One True God and all troubles will cease, the angels will become your poker buddies and the shapely young babes of Jannah will spread their legs. You know the gambit.
Question What is the advantage of reverting to Islam for one so constructed as me? Dangle the meat in front of me a little.
Will I be a better father, a better friend or a better neighbour; will I beat my wife less, pick not my nose and learn to quit slapping around my kids? Help me.
-
Question of the day Is the Quran, stripped of its tafseer, not hard to penetrate? There are whole pages of it that I could not follow even with the aid of Ibn Kathir because of its poetic style which although very pleasant to recite in Arabic did not make for ready comprehension. It seems cryptic.
Hard? that would be subjective.
Quran wasn't aided with Tafsir, that came about later. Tafsir is simply an interpretation. Ibn Kathir had a different view than Tabari, Tabari had a different view than zumakhshari, Zumakhshari had a different view than Razi.
Tafsir doesn't make it easier to penetrate but rather makes you read it with a particular bias. dogma seeps into the passively lazy mind or just confuses it.
There are tools out there to help understand the text i.e. using your brain to cross reference and read context along with the use of dictionaries. ultimately God knows best.
-
I have enjoyed lurking this thread rotfl
Jafar,
Question What is the advantage of reverting to Islam for one so constructed as me? Dangle the meat in front of me a little.Will I be a better father, a better friend or a better neighbour; will I beat my wife less, pick not my nose and learn to quit slapping around my kids? Help me.
The advantages of following the truth are numerous. If you submit to God you will be among the successful ones on the day of judgment, earning a fantastic, endless reward from God. In this worldly life you will be rewarded with all sorts of good things that you ask God to bestow on you, including inner peace and patience. This will make you a better neighbor, husband and father.
You will still need to pick your nose though.Peace!
-
Sarah,
As a young man when I still had my own set of teeth my teacher said that I would go far in life; I think she would have been content with just the next village, but though I'm just a country fellow suffering intellectual famine I don't think I'm the only one to find the Quran hardgoing. To pick one of the shorter chapters for the sake of convenience, consider Sura al-Qureysh
For the taming of Qureysh.
For their taming (We cause) the caravans to set forth in winter and summer.
So let them worship the Lord of this House,
Who hath fed them against hunger and hath made them safe from fear.
If this is a communication from a supernatural power that wants to convey an urgent message in a language I can understand, what is this message intended to say?
