Lost Salafi Here

raginggaijin

Raging,
How sweeter than a candyfloss to suck from wisdom's fount! But steady, my tiny brain might explode.

And now we know the limits. P

In my salad days long before time began or anyone knew what it might be good for I used often to hand out Islamic pamphlets on the much trumpeted science miracles of the Quran so I am familiar with the claims advanced by Muslims. When I say that I find the splitting of the moon idea credulity straining, I do not mean that there are no craters in celestial bodies. The formation of planets after the Big Bang would itself create dents not just in the moon but on every planet including our own with its tectonic collisions. To single out the moon as having cracks in its structure is not to make a cosmological observation; it is more accurate to say that every planetary body has geological upheavals.

True, when faced with the breadth of knowledge we know now with the advanced technology Allah has gifted us.

Now put yourself in the middle of the Arabian desert 1400 years ago, and ask yourself if you can honestly make the same statement.
Therein lies the rub.

Galloping on to more pressing themes ...

Being a vegetarian myself I would like to grapple with an issue that troubles me about Islam. How does your philosophy account for the problem of animal suffering? If human suffering is a test of conviction from Allah, what is the use of visiting suffering on other sentient creatures when animals have no immortal soul that will be tried on the Last Day?

Human suffering is not a test of conviction, as we are given the right of self-defense after fleeing from persecution. The idea of 'turn the other cheek' is a Christian concept, not upheld in the Books revealed by Allah.
We are to endure patiently with the knowledge that deliverance will occur to those who believe, but we are not taught anywhere in the Quran that suffering is a test of conviction. Allah is very clear on what we are to do, and not to do, in the Quran.

To be clear, what I mean is not animal suffering occasioned by human agency, but why the cosmic tenant would design a predatory food chain in which all creatures live one step away from having their innards torn out by the claws of a superior beast when he might have easily created them vegetarians as some already are. Billions live in constant terror of the laws of predation and billions perish in abject agony.

Such is life. Whereas you see horror, I - being raised on a farm in my youth - see the natural cycle of life. Even the plants you rip out of the earth must die for those that consume them to live. They no longer grow, nor suckle water from the soil or branch that held it.

Is their death easier because you cannot hear their screams?

If animals are not moral agents endowed with free will, to what end is all this colossal suffering?

They are signs from Allah and blessings provided by Him.

"And it is God who sends down out of heaven water, and therewith revives the earth after it is dead. Surely in that is a sign for a people who have ears." Surah 1665
"And a sign for them is the dead land, that We quickened and brought forth from it grain, whereof they eat;" Surah 3633
"Hast thou not seen how that God has sent down out of heaven water and threaded it as springs in the earth, then He brings forth therewith crops of diverse hues, then they wither, and thou seest them turning yellow, then He makes them broken orts? Surely in that is a reminder for men possessed of minds." Surah 3921

"And of the cattle, for burthen and for slaughter, eat of what God has provided you; and follow not the steps of the satans; he is a manifest foe to you." Surah 6142
"And the cattle -- He created them for you; in them is warmth, and uses various, and of them you eat, and there is beauty in them for you, when you bring them home to rest and when you drive them forth abroad to pasture; and they bear your loads unto a land that you never would reach, excepting with great distress. Surely your Lord is All-clement, All-compassionate." Surah 165-7
"And surely in the cattle there is a lesson for you; We give you to drink of what is in their bellies, between filth and blood, pure milk, sweet to drinkers. And of the fruits of the palms and the vines, you take therefrom an intoxicant and a provision fair. Surely in that is a sign for a people who understand. And thy Lord revealed unto the bees, saying 'Take unto yourselves, of the mountains, houses, and of the trees, and of what they are building. Then eat of all manner of fruit, and follow the ways of your Lord easy to go upon.' Then comes there forth out of their bellies a drink of diverse hues wherein is healing for men. Surely in that is a sign for a people who reflect.
God created you; then He will gather you to Him; and some of you will be kept back unto the vilest state of life, that after knowing somewhat, they may know nothing; God is All-knowing, All-powerful." Surah 66-70

Suffering and conflict are the agents of change, as any Sociology student will tell you. You cannot have change in entropy. Even in the timeline of this planet and the extinction events that have occurred, these events of seemingly horrendous suffering have been the course set by Allah to bring us where we are today. There is at no time a lasting peace, but always the ebb and flow, the rise and fall of change brought about by conflict.
Life is pain, princess. Anyone who tells you different is selling something.

I hear a lot of 'Why does your God allow suffering?'
Because man wanted to be left alone to their own desires. What steers the rudder of a man who does not believe he will be called to account for his deeds - both manifest and hidden? What will that man do when he believes he can get away with it?

How many crimes would not be committed if people realized they will be called to account after we have completed the term of this test called Life?
How much needless suffering occurs from the hands of men?

Man is the predator and the world with its inhabitants is the prey. Often that includes preying upon other men.

Signs from Allah.

"The likeness of this present life is as water that We send down out of heaven, and the plants of the earth mingle with it whereof men and cattle eat, till, when the earth has taken on its glitter and has decked itself fair, and its inhabitants think they have power over it, Our command comes upon it by night or day, and We make it stubble, as though yesterday it flourished not. Even so We distinguish the signs for a people who reflect." Surah 1024

But let us speak of the animals below us on the food chain.
Though animals have their natural cycle of predator versus prey, Allah has given us clear dictates on what we are allowed and forbidden to eat. Allah has made clear that carrion, an animal that dies by traumatic incident, is an unclean animal. These acts that cause an animal to suffer unto death are forbidden and clearly detailed.

"Forbidden to you are carrion, blood, the flesh of swine, what has been hallowed to other than God, the beast strangled; the beast beaten down, the beast fallen to death, the beast gored, and that devoured by beasts of prey - excepting that you have sacrificed duly -- as also things sacrificed to idols, and partition by the divining arrows; that is ungodliness. Today the unbelievers have despaired of your religion; therefore fear them not, but fear you Me. Today I have perfected your religion for you, and I have completed My blessing upon you, and I have approved Al-Islam for your religion. But whosoever is constrained in emptiness and not inclining purposely to sin -- God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate." Surah 53

So while we are at the top of the food chain, even our Creator has made clear that suffering is not something He condones - even in the animal kingdom.

Look to the predators and see how Allah has taught them to slay their prey. What do you find in your observance of their kills?

I thank Allah for cattle, and the meat, milk, and leather they provide. There is so much good in the world He has created, I find it impossible to count His blessings. )

When shown all these signs, the question remains Will you then believe?

May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.

Peace.

raginggaijin

Question of the day Is the Quran, stripped of its tafseer, not hard to penetrate? There are whole pages of it that I could not follow even with the aid of Ibn Kathir because of its poetic style which although very pleasant to recite in Arabic did not make for ready comprehension. It seems cryptic.

If you aren't seeking guidance, you won't be guided.

Allah knows what you hear, and with what you hear with Surah 820-23, 636, 1747, 2451, 3053, 3918, 4130, 6416

"Answer only will those who hear; as for the dead, God will raise them up, then unto Him they will be returned" Surah 636
"If God had known of any good in them He would have made them hear; and if He had made them hear, they would have turned away, swerving aside." Surah 823
"Thou shalt not guide the blind out of their error neither shalt thou make any to hear except for such as believe in Our signs, and so surrender." Surah 3053

Insincere readers are diverted from the meaning of the Quran Surah 7146, 1745-47, 1857, 4144, 3923

"When thou recitest the Koran, We place between thee, and those who do not believe in the world to come, a curtain obstructing," Surah 1745
"And who does greater evil than he who, being reminded of the signs of his Lord, turns away from them and forgets what his hands have forwarded? Surely We have laid veils on their hearts lest they understand it, and in their ears heaviness; and though thou callest them to the guidance, yet they will not be guided ever." Surah 1857

At what point will a person turn to Allah and ask Him to explain the Quran?
Who better than the One who created man?

?And thus have We made for every prophet an enemy from among the guilty, and sufficient is thy Lord as a Guide and a Helper." Surah 2531
?Allah desires to explain to you, and to guide you into the ways of those before you, and to turn to you, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.? Surah 426
"Move not thy tongue therewith to make haste with it. Surely on Us rests the collecting of it and the reciting of it. So when We recite it, follow its recitation. Again on Us rests the explaining of it." Surah 7516-19

You read numerous ayats where the Quran is clearly stated to not be poetry, but a Guidance and a Reminder.
What happens when you stop reading it like poetry and start reading it like an Instruction Manual?

Let us know what happens.

Peace.

Jafar

I speak not of alien concepts. Just plain intelligibility. As the Quran reader will note, the book has a distinct rhyming scheme. The difficulty is that too often it sacrifices poetry for clarity with cryptic verses like ?Alif Laam Meem? and whole chapters whose meaning is elusive. Amusingly, the very next verse of that ayat is ?Thaalikal kitaabu laa rayba fee? meaning here's a book in which there is no doubt as though anyone understands what the preceding verse meant.

If the book is an extra-terrestrial communication designed to enlighten the race instead of bamboozle why not something which any schoolboy of ten can follow in this fashion

"Dear Sons of Adam,

I wanna share something with you. Many light years ago when I was bored stiff in my bachelor pad I had this notion of inventing some trousered apes to regale me out of which you featherless creatures grew. You?re welcome. I am God by the way. But you may call me Allah.

Now kids, a few cardinal rules. You must tongue my name every day and whoop me up, don?t be mean to each other, and try not to romance the barnyard animals.

Breach any of these rules my young things and you will breakdance in the lowest rung of Jahannam. Got that?

Till my next revelation, so long!

Sincerely,

Allah. ?

Whatever you make of that message, you cannot fault its clarity.

Man.. I love your sense of writing.. wittingly funny...
Ooh by the way there are no such thing as BLASPHEMY in this forum..
Sharia (or halakha) is not applicable here..

Quran being elusive... well yes perhaps.. although speaking of 'elusiveness' you should read Tao Te Ching (spelled out Dao De Jing) which I think are more eloquently elusive yet deep in meaning at the same time. Yes even the translated english version it is elusive.

This word-by-word Quran site might help you though..
http//corpus.quran.com/

Now let's discuss some of the basic concepts..
Presumably through the Salaful Al-Salih ('The pious ancestors&#039 indoctrination (readintoxication) you've been told that the Quran is God's last revelation in a sense of Him saying

"Look dude ! Yes it's only dude! As I don't give a sh%t about the chicks! I've enough of trying to transform your bad-ass ape-ish attitude for centuries.. now this will be the last effort from me trying to enlighten you and reveal something to you... I previously told you things in Hebrew but I got bored of that language.. beside... you silly apes has made a lot of ridiculous additions to My words in Hebrew.. so I thought hey let's try using Arabic this time around.. which I plan to declare as the 'lingua franca' in heaven very soon, as thus from this moment on any prayer which is not in Arabic will be rejected by My kingdom in heaven and will not even received the slightest attention for further processing. And please do understand that I'm busy.. I have a bunch of universes to attend to... so take this as the last gift of revelation and enlightenment from me.. Kapish??"

Which is not the case...

God's revelation is a continuing process my friend.. up until now and up to the future.. and it's not only available through the Quran, Bible or books.. As confirmed in the Quran.. in the past God has revealed and sent revelation / wisdom / teachings through various means and through various messengers to many 'ummah' / nations / group of people on this earth which speaks using their own tongue. In which He continue to do so up until this day and up to the future. He's the one who teach men things which initially they knew not...

In the Quran there are concept which basically being told yet we see today that it's being applied today in the modern world by people who perhaps never ever read the Quran in their lifetime. Such as but not limited to Freedom of thought and belief, people equality / casteless society, basic human rights including anti-slavery, government taxes and many more..

Even in the Quran there are verbose statement which say "It is WE that shall explain it" and "Thus WE explain the signs for people who use REASON" and also "God shall guides whom He wishes".

As thus... seek His revelation, wisdom and guidance from any means, source and channel my friend...
Quran is not the only source for it.. yet HE IS!
He even said as such in the Quran.. "Call on me! And I will answer!"

PS I'm too lazy now to put the 'chapter and verse number' please seek it out yourself..

Salam / Peace

Beardo

Human suffering is not a test of conviction, as we are given the right of self-defense after fleeing from persecution. The idea of 'turn the other cheek' is a Christian concept, not upheld in the Books revealed by Allah.

We are to endure patiently with the knowledge that deliverance will occur to those who believe, but we are not taught anywhere in the Quran that suffering is a test of conviction. Allah is very clear on what we are to do, and not to do, in the Quran.

point well taken.

Such is life. Whereas you see horror, I - being raised on a farm in my youth - see the natural cycle of life. Even the plants you rip out of the earth must die for those that consume them to live. They no longer grow, nor suckle water from the soil or branch that held it. Is their death easier because you cannot hear their screams?

Plants do not have nervous systems that can register pain my cherry blossom. Only animals are sentient because pain and pleasure are the products of a brain. The notion that plants can suffer is one that is common to Muslims who don't seem to have paid much attention in anatomy class; were you flirting with the boys? I thought a Quran Aloner might know better than to recycle pre-modern ideas. Come, come, you're letting the team down.

I hear a lot of 'Why does your God allow suffering?' Because man wanted to be left alone to their own desires. What steers the rudder of a man who does not believe he will be called to account for his deeds - both manifest and hidden? What will that man do when he believes he can get away with it? How many crimes would not be committed if people realized they will be called to account after we have completed the term of this test called Life? How much needless suffering occurs from the hands of men?

I'm not sure you've understood my question. To pre-empt confusion I focused my question on the ethics of animal predation. Not human suffering. And nor animal suffering caused by human agency. I know well that human suffering in mainstream Islamic theology is a trial to be patiently borne till the Last Day when the souls of men shall be judged.

My question was given that animals will face no such post-portem accounting, how is their suffering justified?

Or does the Compassionate One not give a flying toss? For someone who espouses belief in evolution and that humans are late comers to the drama of the earth which was populated for eons and eons by dinosaurs and other extinct species how can you assert such an anthropomorphic view that ignores that the globe has been spinning for millions of years without humanity?

So while we are at the top of the food chain, even our Creator has made clear that suffering is not something He condones - even in the animal kingdom. Look to the predators and see how Allah has taught them to slay their prey. What do you find in your observance of their kills? I thank Allah for cattle, and the meat, milk, and leather they provide. There is so much good in the world He has created, I find it impossible to count His blessings.

If Allah does not condone suffering, why did he equip sentient beings who perish in agony by the billions every year with a nervous system with pain receptors instead of making them as insentient as plants? Outfitting them with pain receptors is a conscious decision on his part which he did not have to do.

Beardo

Now let's discuss some of the basic concepts..

Presumably through the Salaful Al-Salih ('The pious ancestors&#039 indoctrination (readintoxication) you've been told that the Quran is God's last revelation in a sense of Him saying

"Look dude ! Yes it's only dude! As I don't give a sh%t about the chicks! I've enough of trying to transform your bad-ass ape-ish attitude for centuries.. now this will be the last effort from me trying to enlighten you and reveal something to you... I previously told you things in Hebrew but I got bored of that language.. beside... you silly apes has made a lot of ridiculous additions to My words in Hebrew.. so I thought hey let's try using Arabic this time around.. which I plan to declare as the 'lingua franca' in heaven very soon, as thus from this moment on any prayer which is not in Arabic will be rejected by My kingdom in heaven and will not even received the slightest attention for further processing. And please do understand that I'm busy.. I have a bunch of universes to attend to... so take this as the last gift of revelation and enlightenment from me.. Kapish??"

Which is not the case...

Yes, that is how I was nurtured to approach the Quran.

So if you believe that God's moral code like human rights are best enshrined in Freedom's Land instead of Absurdistan, does that not make the Quran superfluous? That's interesting.

Wakas

There are simple things to understand in The Quran, for which no-one has variance in interpretation, these are its core, e.g. speak the truth, be charitable, forgiveness, care for orphans etc. I find that people tend to focus on the peripherals yet have not even implemented the basics. See 37.

The Quran is for everyone, with varying degrees of intelligence, covering from individual self-growth to collective/societal, hence its scope and content.

Beardo

You read numerous ayats where the Quran is clearly stated to not be poetry, but a Guidance and a Reminder.

What happens when you stop reading it like poetry and start reading it like an Instruction Manual?

Let us know what happens.

Peace.

To draw attention to the fact the Quran is poetically constructed, that a clear rhyming scheme shapes all the suras, that it is not written in conventional linear prose with a beginning, a middle and an end like the gospels is not to denigrate as Muslims seem to imagine. It's a transparent observation which is why the Quran is so easy to memorise The verses end in rhyming couplets.

It makes for a pleasant recital like all rhymed compositions and like I noted chanting the Quran was one of the few pleasures of being a Muslim, but if the meaning proves as slippery as a burglar making off with his neighbour's loot the instruction manual won't be the most handy.

Suppose you were tasked with the job of composing a message on which hangs the fate of humanity; would you not choose a less ambiguous style than "Alif Laam Meem" ? I'm just a country boy who is intellectually barefoot. Help me.

Beardo

There are simple things to understand in The Quran, for which no-one has variance in interpretation, these are its core, e.g. speak the truth, be charitable, forgiveness, care for orphans etc. I find that people tend to focus on the peripherals yet have not even implemented the basics. See 37.

The Quran is for everyone, with varying degrees of intelligence, covering from individual self-growth to collective/societal, hence its scope and content.

Duly noted. The Quran seems time specific in many instances where it exhorts the believers to follow the Prophet. Typically other Muslims explain this away as a reference to the Sunnah as relayed in the Hadith. Since Quran Aloners reject any such interpretation, do you think parts of the Quran are outdated because you obviously cannot follow the prophet living after his demise.

I will fetch the ayats later because I don't recall the passages off the top of my head, but I wonder what you make of it.

Jafar

Yes, that is how I was nurtured to approach the Quran.
So if you believe that God's moral code like human rights are best enshrined in Freedom's Land instead of Absurdistan, does that not make the Quran superfluous? That's interesting.

According to recorded history, the most ancient secular kingdom/country was initially initiated in Iran / Persia..some 2600 years ago or around 1200 years before the Quran... during the reign of Cyrus a.k.a The One With Two Horned a.k.a Dzul-Qarnayn in the Quran.

Superflous why is that? Please note that the Quran did mentioned that 'there's actually nothing new' ..
"Nothing is said to thee that was not said to the messengers before thee" (4143)
(ps as such the notion of 'Quran' bring forth a 'new law' / 'a new commandment' is certainly a fallacy)

And human thoughts are somehow 'connected' (through communication).. an idea sprung up initially in China can found it's implementation in Turkey or South Africa. Greek ideas in America, India ideas in Norway.. It's like a chain reaction...

Absurdly.. the evidence on how the 'modern Islamist sect' are found to be a syncretism between Judaism, Christianism, Zoroastrianism, Hellenism, Egyptian Paganism and Arab Paganism proves that there was a 'freedom of belief' within that region during its early conception.
Where people could freely exchanging ideas among each others without the fear of blasphemy or apostasy.
Somehow this 'freedom of belief' wither away due to the strong influences from dogmatic sectarian thinking which was (and is still) prevalent within that region.

Salam / Peace

Beardo

Jafar,

Your cosmopolitan ethos seduces me like a woman in the night. Steady, this Beardo's married. Unfaithfully.

Your creed is very forward looking. Perhaps just a bit too modern. For if the divine truth may be plucked from the ether without ever looking between the covers of a book, why did Allah stay up all night to write his masterpiece?

To my eye the allure of faith is that it asserts a degree of moral oneupmanship. Buy into the One True God and all troubles will cease, the angels will become your poker buddies and the shapely young babes of Jannah will spread their legs. You know the gambit.

Question What is the advantage of reverting to Islam for one so constructed as me? Dangle the meat in front of me a little.

Will I be a better father, a better friend or a better neighbour; will I beat my wife less, pick not my nose and learn to quit slapping around my kids? Help me.

SarahY

Question of the day Is the Quran, stripped of its tafseer, not hard to penetrate? There are whole pages of it that I could not follow even with the aid of Ibn Kathir because of its poetic style which although very pleasant to recite in Arabic did not make for ready comprehension. It seems cryptic.

Hard? that would be subjective.

Quran wasn't aided with Tafsir, that came about later. Tafsir is simply an interpretation. Ibn Kathir had a different view than Tabari, Tabari had a different view than zumakhshari, Zumakhshari had a different view than Razi.

Tafsir doesn't make it easier to penetrate but rather makes you read it with a particular bias. dogma seeps into the passively lazy mind or just confuses it.

There are tools out there to help understand the text i.e. using your brain to cross reference and read context along with the use of dictionaries. ultimately God knows best.

Magnus

I have enjoyed lurking this thread rotfl

Jafar,
Question What is the advantage of reverting to Islam for one so constructed as me? Dangle the meat in front of me a little.

Will I be a better father, a better friend or a better neighbour; will I beat my wife less, pick not my nose and learn to quit slapping around my kids? Help me.

The advantages of following the truth are numerous. If you submit to God you will be among the successful ones on the day of judgment, earning a fantastic, endless reward from God. In this worldly life you will be rewarded with all sorts of good things that you ask God to bestow on you, including inner peace and patience. This will make you a better neighbor, husband and father.
You will still need to pick your nose though.

Peace!

Beardo

Sarah,

As a young man when I still had my own set of teeth my teacher said that I would go far in life; I think she would have been content with just the next village, but though I'm just a country fellow suffering intellectual famine I don't think I'm the only one to find the Quran hardgoing. To pick one of the shorter chapters for the sake of convenience, consider Sura al-Qureysh

For the taming of Qureysh.

For their taming (We cause) the caravans to set forth in winter and summer.

So let them worship the Lord of this House,

Who hath fed them against hunger and hath made them safe from fear.

If this is a communication from a supernatural power that wants to convey an urgent message in a language I can understand, what is this message intended to say?

BornAgain

Question What is the advantage of reverting to Islam for one so constructed as me? Dangle the meat in front of me a little.

Will I be a better father, a better friend or a better neighbour; will I beat my wife less, pick not my nose and learn to quit slapping around my kids? Help me.

Only you can find the answer, my friend. Embracing Islam is not merely acknowledging God?s existence or adopting the muslim label. It is about understanding and implementing God?s systems. Endlessly seeking for knowledge, constant questioning, and you may discover what it is to become a better person. One can find the way by reading the Bible, while others can find in the Qur?an.

Simply by labeling oneself as a ?God-alone? muslim is not enough. Adopting the muslim label does not necessarily make some a better person. Just like being a Christian, a Jew, a Hindu, a Buddhist ? the labeling really does not matter.

Going back to your question, will Islam make you a better person? Well open the Qur?aan, and ask YOURSELF if by applying Qur?anic commandments will make you a better person. Let?s push aside the ?wife-beating? or ?cutting hand? verses which can be subjected to different interpretation. Now see for YOURSELF, if you can see the wisdom behind commandments such as

Treating the wives with kindness (419)
Maintaining humility and speaking modest speech even to the ignorants (2536)
Giving charity regularly, whenever you receive an income (6141)
Honouring your parents (1723, 3114)
Shunning usury (2278, 3130)
Protecting the orphans (42, 2215, 436)
Freeing slaves (9013)
Maintaining modesty in the presence of the opposite sex (2430-31)
Honouring your neighbours (436)
Refraining from gambling (590-591)

And many other commandments that I cannot think off right now. Anyway, just ask YOURSELF if by following those commandments will make you a better person or not. Also, approach any Scriptures, which is not limited to the Qur?an, with a genuine intention to gain knowledge and the truth, and not merely to find mistakes and criticize, in order to make you feel superior about your pre-conceived beliefs and views. That?s all I can contribute.

Peace.

Beardo

I have enjoyed lurking this thread rotfl

The advantages of following the truth are numerous. If you submit to God you will be among the successful ones on the day of judgment, earning a fantastic, endless reward from God. In this worldly life you will be rewarded with all sorts of good things that you ask God to bestow on you, including inner peace and patience. This will make you a better neighbor, husband and father.
You will still need to pick your nose though.

Peace!

Intriguing. I would like to have a share of inner peace. That sounds like a meritorious end. So what time can you take my kids off my hands? I will pay you handsomely.

But I've gotta say that the prospect of Jannah doesn't tickle my interest for I can't bear the notion of immortality. I think death is a release from the treadmill of desire, gratification, desire, gratification. To live in the cosmic brothel of the Islamic conception of paradise through which rivers of wine flow seems to me too great a carnality for even a Shaytan like me.

Can't you offer something more resposeful akin to Nirvana?

Beardo

Going back to your question, will Islam make you a better person? Well open the Qur?aan, and ask YOURSELF if by applying Qur?anic commandments will make you a better person. Let?s push aside the ?wife-beating? or ?cutting hand? verses which can be subjected to different interpretation. Now see for YOURSELF, if you can see the wisdom behind commandments such as

Treating the wives with kindness (419)
Maintaining humility and speaking modest speech even to the ignorants (2536)
Giving charity regularly, whenever you receive an income (6141)
Honouring your parents (1723, 3114)
Shunning usury (2278, 3130)
Protecting the orphans (42, 2215, 436)
Freeing slaves (9013)
Maintaining modesty in the presence of the opposite sex (2430-31)
Honouring your neighbours (436)
Refraining from gambling (590-591)

And many other commandments that I cannot think off right now. Anyway, just ask YOURSELF if by following those commandments will make you a better person or not. Also, approach any Scriptures, which is not limited to the Qur?an, with a genuine intention to gain knowledge and the truth, and not merely to find mistakes and criticize, in order to make you feel superior about your pre-conceived beliefs and views. That?s all I can contribute.

Peace.

Very wise words. Can I put a ring on that finger sister? I need a second wife.

The rumour is that syncretic creeds are frowned upon on this board so why haven't you been stoned yet for flirting with other scriptures? I will report you.

There is much to recommend your brand of Islam; if I had to outfit myself in a flowing robe complimented with a black turban that bakes my skull in the summer heat and scrape my head on the floor of any Muslim school of thought it would be yours. It's the grandest, finest, smartest theology that ever set up shop on this globe of sin.

But I'm set aback by the modesty element. In my native village of Anatolia it is disreputable not to have a keen eye for pretty ankles. Our motto there is Repent not when thy semen gushes!

How does this gel with your moral code?

BornAgain

Very wise words. Can I put a ring on that finger sister? I need a second wife.

As blunt as I can be. No, thank you. Don't think you can handle a woman like me.

PS You need much more than a ring to sweep me off my feet.

The rumour is that syncretic creeds are frowned upon on this board so why haven't you been stoned yet for flirting with other scriptures? I will report you.

Simply because you take generalization of the whole muslim population based on an extremist minority group. Just because extremists who label themselves as muslims stone ?apostates?, does not mean other muslims practice the same. Many of my traditional muslim friends know that I reject the divinity of hadiths, and no one has problems with it.

By the way, I ain?t just flirting with other Scriptures. I touch ?em when I feel the urge? to learn more about the world?s belief systems.

There is much to recommend your brand of Islam; if I had to outfit myself in a flowing robe complimented with a black turban that bakes my skull in the summer heat and scrape my head on the floor of any Muslim school of thought it would be yours. It's the grandest, finest, smartest theology that ever set up shop on this globe of sin.

Really don?t think that would suit you.

But I'm set aback by the modesty element. In my native village of Anatolia it is disreputable not to have a keen eye for pretty ankles. Our motto there is Repent not when thy semen gushes!

How does this gel with your moral code?

My moral code regarding modesty and sexuality? Desires are there to be controlled, and not be eliminated. There is nothing wrong with volcanoes erupting inside your body, creating intense heat that makes you want to explode. It?s part of human biological program. What matters most is how you control such desires.

Anyway, since your native village is in Anatolia, why don?t you think more about the East, and not towards down South.

Jafar

Jafar,

Your cosmopolitan ethos seduces me like a woman in the night. Steady, this Beardo's married. Unfaithfully.

Your creed is very forward looking. Perhaps just a bit too modern. For if the divine truth may be plucked from the ether without ever looking between the covers of a book, why did Allah stay up all night to write his masterpiece?

We can answer the how and to some extent the what regarding the 'Master of all Universes'.
But we shall never grasp the 'why'... or the 'basic argumentation/intention'...
And even in the Quran there are many occasions where His answer to the 'why' question were as simple as
"I know better than you!. dumb ass!"

Example
"And when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a replacement (ArabicCaliph)."
They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?"
The God said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know." (230)

Having said that... it doesn't mean that you should not post that question to Him..
Post it to Him... and perhaps He shall answer to you..
I mean.. with different answer than "I know better than you!. dumb ass!"
Although if He did answer with such answer.. you did beforehand manage your expectation right??

To my eye the allure of faith is that it asserts a degree of moral oneupmanship. Buy into the One True God and all troubles will cease, the angels will become your poker buddies and the shapely young babes of Jannah will spread their legs. You know the gambit.

Well yes to some degree it's true... however the main question is actually how you "Buy into the One True God" which could be a complicated question. And as usual.. action speak louder than words my friend...

Let me share with you that it is 'reciprocal'... treat others the same way as you would like to be treated as He will treat you the same way as you treat others.. This is the constant theme found in many part of wisdom books...
As a comparison within eastern culture this is known as the 'Karmic' law..

"Forgive us for our sins, as we forgive others who has sinned against us"
A long haired jewish dude once said...

Question What is the advantage of reverting to Islam for one so constructed as me? Dangle the meat in front of me a little.
Will I be a better father, a better friend or a better neighbour; will I beat my wife less, pick not my nose and learn to quit slapping around my kids? Help me.

Let me start answering with the basic rule of engagement..
My dear friend I'm not trying to 'convert' you... please please please put the sectarian conception of 'convertion' far away from your (already) exploded head..

islam is not a sect or religion
islam (without the capital i) is an A-ttitude. (pronounce this as the NY black rapper said it in their coolest manner.. it's an A-ttitude bro!)
islam is an arabic word for 'submission' / 'acceptance' / 'peacefully accept', in hebrew it's 'taslam'...
when you peacefully accept any of God's will, then life will be happier and easier for you..
The only A-ttitude acceptable to God is to peacefully submit to His will... as saith in the Quran..

A long haired jewish dude allegedly saith this during one of his time of anguish and despair.
"Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me but not as what I will, but as what thou wilt."

That's why in the Quran, the before mentioned long haired jewish dude are being called as a 'moslem' (those who had an islam A-ttitude) and furthermore he's being mentioned as an 'example to human kind'.

Did the long haired Jewish dude ever read the Quran? did he proclaim the sunni style of shahada? did he ever do a 7 times roundabout jogging around a black cube? did he ever received an Eucharist from an authoritative priest? Nope...

Having said that..
Oh my God did you ever did such things? I mean slapping your wife and kids?
Come on stop it dude... treat others the same way as you would like to be treated.. as He will treat you the same way as you treat others..

Salam / Peace

Beardo

Born Again

How can I stop looking south of my belt when I meet a pretty young thing like you? Impossible. I was hoping we might finalise my Shahadah over a candle lit dinner washed down with a bottle of the finest red wine to ever kiss the lips of men. I'm Gutted.

Mistaken is the notion that I have a skewed picture of Muslims. I was jesting about the stoning as I thought was quite plain, but I suppose I will have to use emoticons from hence forward. How many do I need? Ten should do the trick.

Before you can make this ruggedly handsome gallant your hubby the halal way I need some theological questions urgently resolved. Are you ready my sweet? Let's play.

For one thing, if one believes in Darwinian evolution as I gather many of you heretics do, if man is not a fallen creature expelled from the shady groves of Jannah to live in weary toil for the rest of his days till his spirit takes flight, why does the Quran say that Adam?s prelapsarian existence was shattered by sin? Science maintains that man is an evolved creature and Islam that we have descended from a higher state of bliss. What is a guy to believe? Help me sister. I'm confused.

Paradox_Uncreated

Well if anything you win the PXU Tastelessness award 2011.