Lost Salafi Here
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So who precisely do you understand Iblis to be?
Beardo, I don't know...
But let this time around, for the sake of discussion assume that Iblis is indeed a kind of 'being' who are invisible to the naked eye, who possess all of the bad/evil qualities and characters. It is saith that this invisible being are indeed the adversary (arabicShaytan) of human who made an oath to led astray the human population as much as possible...
Having said that; if I DO know PRECISELY what kind of being this IBLIS is..
He will not be much of a 'threat' would he?
Given his only advantage so far is that he posses knowledge about us while we knew nothing of him..(or her or perhaps it)Believe me I wish I (or other human being) DO know PRECISELY what kind of being this IBLIS is..
As thus we can study it, research it and eventually find it's weaknesses and can devise a 'weapon' to end it for good!But I guess that's not what God has in mind.. at least up until now..
God however did reveal regarding this Iblis characters / qualities, perhaps as a lesson for not to 'imitate' him.Truly sorry on hearing what happened between you and your wive..
Not all 'female homo sapiens' are like that.. we should not do a 'stereotyping' based on gender...
But I'm glad that you're not the one who beat her or you ever beat one of your children....Although I'm curious, why did she said 'Quit your godless folly'??
Salam / Peace
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Paradox Uncreated
A thousand apologies. I should have known better than to pass you over for another lovely. I have high standards sister. But for keeping strong in the face of countless rejections I am confident that you will be amply rewarded by a just and intelligent God.
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Not a chance, Sir. Once a man is unfaithful to a woman, then he will not stay faithful to anyone. Besides, when men are as abundant as the stars, why shall I settle for the likes of you?
I am afraid you have not encountered enough muslims in your life. Most muslims I know don't encourage the implementation of "shariah' (by shariah, I assume we are talking about inhumane laws practiced in some conservative countries under the banner of Islam). And may I remind you, that the country with the most muslim population, Indonesia, is in fact not practicing "shariah" as its legal laws except for one state? And I can say with confidence, that those muslims (whom I have interfaced) are not in support of "shariah' laws?
What I have, to convey, is not lips, but rather fingers to type. I am afraid I cannot do much to entertain your mind. I must say, I am glad you warm up to reading previous threads.
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Paradox Uncreated
A thousand apologies. I should have known better than to pass you over for another lovely. I have high standards sister. But for keeping strong in the face of countless rejections I am confident that you will be amply rewarded by a just and intelligent God.
Too bad modern law restricts us so. Apparently there is something very wrong with this mans head, and it should be amputated.
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Jafar,
I was teasing about the marital problems. My wife is a delicate flower and I am a big softie who could not wrestle a school girl to the ground.
It is true that my better half and I diverge on first and last things. After many years of training her artillery fire on the heavens she made her peace with God in recent years and now is something vageuly religious. Not in the orthodox sense of belonging to a formal creed ; she and I are agreed upon our anti-clericalism; but she lights her candle at the altar of a personal God. If that deity sounds rather much like the Deist version of a cosmic engineer who after kickstarting the universe repaired to a dignified retirement home and snoozed for the end of time you might just be right.
I bear no grudge against deism and watch the spectacle with quiet amusement.
Your theology seems like a work in progress. I would have thought you might have so fundamental a thing as the creation story smoothed out by now, but maybe that's my dogmatic Salafi alter ego talking.
Pressing question If the Eden story is just an allegory and man is a trousered ape, at what point in our slow climb out of the primordial seas did God breathe an imperishable soul into homo sapiens?
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Not a chance, Sir. Once a man is unfaithful to a woman, then he will not stay faithful to anyone. Besides, when men are as abundant as the stars, why shall I settle for the likes of you?
You misunderstand. I don't propose that you settle down with me. As you've hinted man is a creature so constructed that when the red mist of lust descends, off he goes running after the nearest skirt. You are an accomplished psychologist. I will give you that. What I propose is more sensible and practical and Islamic. Let me warehouse you in my damp basement down which my wife never goes so we might carry on a passionate amorous entanglement to shake Allah's throne.
If you behave and not make too much noise I will let you out to bathe once a month, feed you goat milk and cheese and belt you no more than twice a day according to the stipulations of the Shariah.
You must not decline this once in a lifetime offer sister.
Galloping on to more engaging themes, I'm more than happy to outfit my tiny brain with the relevant threads about the Quranist take on Creation and science. Link?
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Too bad modern law restricts us so. Apparently there is something very wrong with this mans head, and it should be amputated.
Why should biology get in the way of the love that dare not speak its name? If you let me squeeze you like a bunny, if I can mount you like a bison, I promise you'll walk funny in the morning beaming a radiant smile.
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Why should biology get in the way of the love that dare not speak its name? If you let me squeeze you like a bunny, if I can mount you like a bison, I promise you'll walk funny in the morning beaming a radiant smile.
Well if not lobotomy, he needs the treatment given any shaytan/psychopath these days. I guess we don`t decapitate them anymore, but try to cure them. Lol, our society needs more consumers after all. And what more perfect consumer than this lustful idiot, following any image of lust, like a mouse after cheese.
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^ By which Salafi were you forcibly raped as a child? Poor widdle thing.
Look, I'm sorry for the damage done to your gaping ass hole, but it's nothing to do with this old man. I'm just here to learn about your theology brother. I wish you a speedy recovery. How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to be molested!
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^ By which Salafi were you forcibly raped as a child? Poor widdle thing.
Look, I'm sorry for the damage done to your gaping ass hole, but it's nothing to do with this old man. I'm just here to learn about your theology brother. I wish you a speedy recovery. How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to be molested!
Yeah, I guessed this was about Salafi, and you thinking you were superior, just like shaytan. Therefore our women were simple devils you could have your way with.
Such thinks a devil.
Because you believe it to be a way of putting people down, don
t you? Youre a very sad man. Or is it boy. The mental development doesnt seem advanced anyway. Just you be you. Its punishment enough, I guess. -
By the rashness with which you threw yourself into a diverting conversation I expected more from your invective than the enthusiasm of a prostitute on her seventh client of the night. A pity.
I enjoyed dismembering and eating your imbecility for lunch. And with that I draw a line under this disciplinarian excercise and press on to theology. As much I would like to schoolmaster you in the elements of style and wit, I have not come here for that.
When you've nursed your wounds feel quite free to contribute meaningfully to the discussion. I belong to a generation which holds no grudges.
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Shaytan follows his desire. If anyone wanted a lesson in shaytanic behaviour, this is it. Notice that shaytan does not prefer one or another. Or what is called heterophilia or homophilia or any other -philia by psychologists. You probably understand that beardos behaviour is not about love, at all. And not about "orientation".
Psychologists are deluded in these aspects. That of following ones desire, has no preference for ANY "orientation". That he speaks of gay rape, doesn`t not mean he is gay. He simply cultivates his desire, however it may be.
http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/25/43/ "Hast thou seen him who chooseth for his god his own lust?"
Well, you`ve seen him now.
A lot of sectarians are lustful, because their own teachings mentally abuse them, and it becomes satanic and sexual, in the unseen.
That`s how I percieve satanic jinn to be. When they are present, a lot of idiocy and mental abuse is present. Human nature, is defiled.
That is satan, and That is what you see in beardos post. The defilement of human nature. -
Let me start answering with the basic rule of engagement..
My dear friend I'm not trying to 'convert' you... please please please put the sectarian conception of 'convertion' far away from your (already) exploded head..islam is not a sect or religion
islam (without the capital i) is an A-ttitude. (pronounce this as the NY black rapper said it in their coolest manner.. it's an A-ttitude bro!)
islam is an arabic word for 'submission' / 'acceptance' / 'peacefully accept', in hebrew it's 'taslam'...
when you peacefully accept any of God's will, then life will be happier and easier for you..
The only A-ttitude acceptable to God is to peacefully submit to His will... as saith in the Quran..A long haired jewish dude allegedly saith this during one of his time of anguish and despair.
"Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me but not as what I will, but as what thou wilt."That's why in the Quran, the before mentioned long haired jewish dude are being called as a 'moslem' (those who had an islam A-ttitude) and furthermore he's being mentioned as an 'example to human kind'.
Did the long haired Jewish dude ever read the Quran? did he proclaim the sunni style of shahada? did he ever do a 7 times roundabout jogging around a black cube? did he ever received an Eucharist from an authoritative priest? Nope...
This knocked me flat on my bottom. Steady, I?m just an old man whose joints are colonised by arthritis. I will report you for cyber assault. Your credo is uber sophisticated and thoughtful, but how theologically sound is it my little rabbit?
If you are convinced that my convictions will bear me aloft on the wings of the angel of death to sweat a little in the cosmic oven of Jahannam, don't you have some moral duty to set me straight on my follies?
And from a sheer survival vantage, the murderous impatience of Allah?s hang for heresy being what it is, boosting the numerical strength of your school of thought is a matter of self-preservation. Such tribal crudities might not appeal to your urbane mind; you might talk it down as the fossilised remains of the Old Time Religion better consigned to neglected obscurity, but when you live in a rough part of town it?s unwise to venture out without a stab proof vest. True or false?
Till then, I've gotta file a police report for assault.
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Plants do not have nervous systems that can register pain my cherry blossom. Only animals are sentient because pain and pleasure are the products of a brain. The notion that plants can suffer is one that is common to Muslims who don't seem to have paid much attention in anatomy class; were you flirting with the boys? I thought a Quran Aloner might know better than to recycle pre-modern ideas. Come, come, you're letting the team down.
First, I am a guy. Don't misconstrue proper grammar and sentence structure with femininity.
Second, reign in the flirting. You cross the lines of decency and modesty. You will find my tolerance for such activity to be zero.
I am a Muslim, I follow what Allah revealed, and I am very careful the company I keep."He has sent down upon you in the Book 'When you hear God's signs being disbelieved and made mock of, do not sit with them until they plunge into some other talk, or else you will surely be like to them.' God will gather the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in Gehenna." Surah 4140
As for your statement, I am taking it that it is a matter of pain then that is the issue? If the creature doesn't feel pain then it's okay to slay it? Am I understanding you correctly?
Root apices as plant command centres the unique?brain-like? status of the root apex transition zone
http//ds9.botanik.uni-bonn.de/zellbio/AG-Baluska-Volkmann/plantneuro/pdf/NeuroPlantTZ-Biologia.pdf"Although plants are generally immobile and lack the most obvious brain activities of animals and humans, they are not only able to show all the attributes of intelligent behaviour but they are also equipped with neuronal molecules, especially synaptotagmins and glutamate/glycine-gated glutamate receptors.
Recent advances in plant cell biology allowed identification of plant synapses transporting the plant-specific neurotransmitter-like molecule, auxin. This suggests that synaptic communication is not limited to animals and humans but seems to be widespread throughout plant tissues. Root apices seated at the anterior pole of the plant body show many features which allow us to
propose that they, especially their transition zones, act in some way as brainlike command centres. The opposite posterior pole harbours sexual organs
and is specialized for plant reproduction. Last but not least, we propose that vascular tissues represent highways for plant nervous activity allowing rapid exchange of information between the growing points of above-ground organs and the brain-like zones in the root apices."So, where is your proof they do not feel pain?
I'm not sure you've understood my question. To pre-empt confusion I focused my question on the ethics of animal predation. Not human suffering. And nor animal suffering caused by human agency. I know well that human suffering in mainstream Islamic theology is a trial to be patiently borne till the Last Day when the souls of men shall be judged.
My question was given that animals will face no such post-portem accounting, how is their suffering justified?
Do you have proof that they suffer or is this a hypothesis bred of vegan propaganda?
Do you not know that in moments of adrenal hyperactivity - Fight or Flight - the sense of pain is dulled if not removed altogether? Researchers say a stress hormone, noradrenaline, also known as norepinephrine, which floods the bloodstream during stressful events, numbs the brain's pain-processing pathway.Or does the Compassionate One not give a flying toss? For someone who espouses belief in evolution and that humans are late comers to the drama of the earth which was populated for eons and eons by dinosaurs and other extinct species how can you assert such an anthropomorphic view that ignores that the globe has been spinning for millions of years without humanity?
You are overlaying your ideas onto mine. You missed where I spoke of extinction events, which occurred in pre-human times. Take the focus off the ladies and pay attention. Iblis is controlling your frontal lobe and leading you to the Fire.
If Allah does not condone suffering, why did he equip sentient beings who perish in agony by the billions every year with a nervous system with pain receptors instead of making them as insentient as plants?
So you will take your hand off the stove.
Outfitting them with pain receptors is a conscious decision on his part which he did not have to do.
I'm surprised you actually asked this question, as I thought you were learned in the 'why-for' of the nervous system.
But He did give us pain receptors, so we would know when something we do is harming us. There are diseases that inhibit sense of pain, and they are disastrous to the person as they don't have the autonomic response to move/flinch/pull back when they are injuring themselves."Nociception (physiological pain) signals nerve-damage or damage to tissue. The three types of pain receptors are cutaneous (skin), somatic (joints and bones) and visceral (body organs). It was previously believed that pain was simply the overloading of pressure receptors, but research in the first half of the 20th century indicated that pain is a distinct phenomenon that intertwines with all of the other senses, including touch. Pain was once considered an entirely subjective experience, but recent studies show that pain is registered in the anterior cingulate gyrus of the brain. The main function of pain is to warn us about dangers. For example, humans avoid touching a sharp needle or hot object or extending an arm beyond a safe limit because it hurts, and thus is dangerous. Without pain, people could do many dangerous things without realizing it."
Using the stove as an example, a child when growing up is curious and gets into trouble more often than not. Child comes along and puts his hand on a hot stove, but because the All Mighty did not equip the child with pain receptors, the hand stays on the hot stove gaining a third-degree burn and scars that mangle a once-useful hand.
The skin is what holds the pain receptors, and when a third-degree burn occurs, it destroys the nerve endings; they don't return. So take note of Surah 456
"Surely those who disbelieve in Our signs -- We shall certainly roast them at a Fire; as often as their skins are wholly burned, We shall give them in exchange other skins, that they may taste the chastisement. Surely God is All-mighty, All-wise." Surah 456
This ayat is another scientific miracle, as it proves the skin is what contains the nerve endings. Something that was not discovered until the 20th Century by Spanish anatomist Santiago Ram?n y Cajal.
"The neuron's place as the primary functional unit of the nervous system was first recognized in the early 20th century through the work of the Spanish anatomist Santiago Ram?n y Cajal. Cajal proposed that neurons were discrete cells that communicated with each other via specialized junctions, or spaces, between cells. This became known as the neuron doctrine, one of the central tenets of modern neuroscience. To observe the structure of individual neurons, Cajal used a silver staining method developed by his rival, Camillo Golgi. The Golgi stain is an extremely useful method for neuroanatomical investigations because, for reasons unknown, it stains a very small percentage of cells in a tissue, so one is able to see the complete micro structure of individual neurons without much overlap from other cells in the densely packed brain."
Since you do not believe in Allah and do not submit to Him, if you continue the path you are on until your appointed term, you will have plenty of time to ponder on the 'why-for' of the nervous system in the Fire.
Peace.
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This knocked me flat on my bottom. Steady, I?m just an old man whose joints are colonised by arthritis. I will report you for cyber assault. Your credo is uber sophisticated and thoughtful, but how theologically sound is it my little rabbit?
It is quite sound. You should know this if you read the Quran.
The deen - way of life - of Al-Islam is the creed of Abraham (pbuh), revealed to Muhammad (pbuh), which we follow today."And they say, 'Be Jews or Christians and you shall be guided.' Say thou 'Nay, rather the creed of Abraham, a man of pure faith; he was no idolater.'" Surah 2135
"Say 'God has spoken the truth; therefore follow the creed of Abraham, a man of pure faith and no idolater.'" Surah 395
"And who is there that has a fairer religion than he who submits his will to God being a good-doer, and who follows the creed of Abraham, a man of pure faith? And God took Abraham for a friend." Surah 4125
"Say 'As for me, my Lord has guided me to a straight path, a right religion, the creed of Abraham, a man of pure faith; he was no idolater.'" Surah 6161
Did you not profess to have read the Quran? Why do you not know this?
If you are convinced that my convictions will bear me aloft on the wings of the angel of death to sweat a little in the cosmic oven of Jahannam, don't you have some moral duty to set me straight on my follies?
No.
No person is responsible for any other. That is a teaching of the polytheists seeking to engulf more into their collective with their cancer agenda.
The only person responsible for you is you. Our obligation is only to remind or warn. That has been done, and numerous proofs are given from the Quran for you to study and make your own decision."Thy people have cried it lies; yet it is the truth. Say 'I am not a guardian over you." Surah 666
"Had God willed, they were not idolaters; and We have not appointed thee a watcher over them, neither art thou their guardian." Surah 6107
"They count it as a favour to thee that they have surrendered! Say 'Do not count your surrendering as a favour to me; nay, but rather God confers a favour upon you, in that He has guided you to belief, if it be that you are truthful." Surah 4917
"thou art naught but a warner.
Surely We have sent thee with the truth good tidings to bear, and warning; not a nation there is, but there has passed away in it a warner." Surah 3523-24And from a sheer survival vantage, the murderous impatience of Allah?s hang for heresy being what it is, boosting the numerical strength of your school of thought is a matter of self-preservation. Such tribal crudities might not appeal to your urbane mind; you might talk it down as the fossilised remains of the Old Time Religion better consigned to neglected obscurity, but when you live in a rough part of town it?s unwise to venture out without a stab proof vest. True or false?
False.
If you don't believe you can be protected by the One who created all things, you will don a stab-proof vest. That proves your disbelief.
If you believe and uphold the deen of Al-Islam, then you are protected by the One who is All Mighty, there is no need for a stab-proof vest as no harm will befall you unless He wills it."O believers, remember God's blessing upon you, when a certain people purposed to stretch against you their hands, and He restrained their hands from you; and fear God; and in God let the believers put all their trust." Surah 511
"God has promised you many spoils to take; these He has hastened to you, and has restrained the hands of men from you, and that it may be a sign to the believers, and to guide you on a straight path," Surah 4820
We do not need numerical superiority when we have Allah.
"And when Talut went forth with the hosts he said, 'God will try you with a river; whosoever drinks of it is not of me, and whoso tastes it flot, he is of me, saving him who scoops up with his hand.' But they drank of it, except a few of them; and when he crossed it, and those who believed with him, they said, 'We have no power today against Goliath and his hosts.' Said those who reckoned they should meet God, 'How often a little company has overcome a numerous company, by God's leave! And God is with the patient.'" Surah 2249
"What, have they not journeyed in the land and beheld how was the end of those before them? They were stronger than themselves in might and left firmer traces in the earth; yet that they earned did not avail them." Surah 4082
There are few believers. Surah 1140, 5136, 3824, 3420, 73, 612-3, 6116, 331-2
Enjoy this life. Surah 1430
Peace.
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First, I am a guy. Don't misconstrue proper grammar and sentence structure with femininity.
You don't have shapely curves? A pity. Your new gender is noted.
As for your statement, I am taking it that it is a matter of pain then that is the issue? If the creature doesn't feel pain then it's okay to slay it? Am I understanding you correctly?
The objection is twofold. The infliction of unnecessary suffering on sentient creatures is an abomination primarily. And secondarily animals are not commodities. They have a claim to moral consideration that respects their active desire to live out their full lives. It is no more ethical to truncate their life however painlessly than it is to deprive you of your life under anesthesia just because it is pain free.
b]Root apices as plant command centres the unique?brain-like? status of the root apex transition zone
http//ds9.botanik.uni-bonn.de/zellbio/AG-Baluska-Volkmann/plantneuro/pdf/NeuroPlantTZ-Biologia.pdf"Although plants are generally immobile and lack the most obvious brain activities of animals and humans, they are not only able to show all the attributes of intelligent behaviour but they are also equipped with neuronal molecules, especially synaptotagmins and glutamate/glycine-gated glutamate receptors.
Recent advances in plant cell biology allowed identification of plant synapses transporting the plant-specific neurotransmitter-like molecule, auxin. This suggests that synaptic communication is not limited to animals and humans but seems to be widespread throughout plant tissues. Root apices seated at the anterior pole of the plant body show many features which allow us to propose that they, especially their transition zones, act in some way as brainlike command centres. The opposite posterior pole harbours sexual organs
and is specialized for plant reproduction. Last but not least, we propose that vascular tissues represent highways for plant nervous activity allowing rapid exchange of information between the growing points of above-ground organs and the brain-like zones in the root apices."So, where is your proof they do not feel pain?
While plants can communicate through chemical signals, and certainly have complex responses to stimuli, the belief that they possess advanced affective or cognitive abilities is not supported by scientific research.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_perception_%28paranormal%29
Plants are intelligent in the same way that bacteria is intelligent. They feed, they reproduce and they evolve defence mechanisms to ward off predators all of which can be done by the the lowliest amoeba or jellyfish or sponge. This is not consciousness. This is the product of chemical signals. Plants have no central nervous system, no pain receptors. To say that plants have a brain is to say that bacteria have brains
There is no empirical evidence of plants experiencing a sensation even remotely close to what we call pain. Pain has a very specific definition that is often lost in the colloquial use of the word. Simply put, pain is a negative sensation that occurs when an organism has suffered some sort of physical injury. Pain signals travel from specialized sensors cells in the body, called nociceptors, through the sensory peripheral nervous system and to the brain. Depending on the nature of the pain the response could be either unconscious, as when you pull your hand off a hot plate without thinking about it, or conscious, as when you stick your hand under freezing ice water for as long as you can on a dare (I know I?m not the only one to do this.)
http//metabiological.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/do-plants-feel-pain/
Do you not know that in moments of adrenal hyperactivity - Fight or Flight - the sense of pain is dulled if not removed altogether? Researchers say a stress hormone, noradrenaline, also known as norepinephrine, which floods the bloodstream during stressful events, numbs the brain's pain-processing pathway.
This is akin to saying that soldiers don't suffer when struck by a missle because their adrenaline glands are pumping.
You are overlaying your ideas onto mine. You missed where I spoke of extinction events, which occurred in pre-human times. Take the focus off the ladies and pay attention. Iblis is controlling your frontal lobe and leading you to the Fire.
You espoused an anthropomorphic outlook that places the trousered ape at the center of the moral if not quite the physical universe. If so, then God botched his creation by populating the vast bulk of the earth's history with only non-human creatures who lived and suffered and perished with nary a thought for their welfare.
So you will take your hand off the stove.
I'm surprised you actually asked this question, as I thought you were learned in the 'why-for' of the nervous system.
But He did give us pain receptors, so we would know when something we do is harming us. There are diseases that inhibit sense of pain, and they are disastrous to the person as they don't have the autonomic response to move/flinch/pull back when they are injuring themselves.You should have gone with your gut instinct. The context makes it transparent that I was referring to pain receptors in animals. Twice I've made plain my question has no bearing on human suffering because mainstream Islamic theology deems it as a test of faith. Comically, your answer here guillotines your plants-feel-pain psuedoscience. Pain is a selectively adaptive trait designed to escape perilous conditions. It makes no evolutionary sense for an immobile organism like plants to evolve pain receptors because they cannot flee.
Since you do not believe in Allah and do not submit to Him, if you continue the path you are on until your appointed term, you will have plenty of time to ponder on the 'why-for' of the nervous system in the Fire.
Amusing. To be lectured on post-mortem retribution by a man who belongs to a universally reviled fringe sect whose entire constituency might comfortably fit into a phone booth, who denies the Hadith, who rejects the existence of a personal Devil, who mocks the miracle stories of the Quran, who asserts that man is just an ape, for such a person to threaten others with eternal damnation drive hilarity to escape velocity.
Brother, drop the fire and brimstone posture. You will breakdance in hell with me come the sound of the Trumpet. Inshallah.
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But I must say that I?ve always had a soft spot for Iblis. The rest of the Choir Invisible appeared to me as little better than mindless automatons without any self volition, without humanity. Here was someone who thought and behaved if not always correctly at least independently of the robotic angels. He was an individual. Not a mass produced thing on an assembly line.
Agreed, but only by assuming Iblis's argument was valid.
I taught lessons in tajweed at the mosque which I now understand have no scriptural support. A pity really, for the Quran Aloners might not care for such things but I could break out in flights of Quranic recital that would make the angels dance and bliss rain from the sky. Since then I haven?t much seen a Quran for seven years.
Most fascinating.
But the truth be told I have to say that I found the regimentation of the human spirit suffocating, the ban on music, painting, sculpture and the general arts. I won?t be the first to observe that your movement has something of the air of the Reformation for Luther, spotting the layer upon layer of Bible-free Church conventions, warred too against the accretions that had slowly crowded out the true Christian essence. But Luther was opposed to the arts no less and thundered against ornamental churches so perhaps the likeness is not quite apt.
Your English is a delight.