Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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From http//aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/RST_defs.php
Please see the detailed data below (specifically the times marked in red), which shows that the full-moon will technically appear at almost the same time the sun disappears and not before the sun by 8 minutes as you indicated. According to the data, 2105 is when the full-moon upper edge appears (not the whole symmetric full moon as the great reading clearly states). Now keeping in mind that the full-moon (and the sun) angular width is 0.5 degrees, by the time the entire full-moon appears over the horizon it will be about 2010 and the sun would be below the horizon. Also, keep in mind that due to haze on the horizon and uneven terrain, even in a flat desert the full-moon will practically not be visible until it is 1-2 degrees above the horizon. So under the best circumstances it would be around 2120 when Londoners would see the full-moon. As I previously said, as far as I know, this is true anywhere on earth except in extreme latitudes where the sun doesn?t set.Peace Ayman,
180 degrees, 12 hours sunrise to sunset, 15 degrees/hour or 2 minutes for the sun's 1/2 degree to set.
It depends on location...
http//www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/data-services/rs-one-day-us
http//home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/fullmoon.htm
Sort check dates for full moon after summer solstice June 21st. Here is Chicago...
U.S. Naval Observatory
Astronomical Applications DepartmentSun and Moon Data for One Day
The following information is provided for Chicago, Cook County, Illinois (longitude W87.7, latitude N41.9)
Thursday
11 July 1957 Central Standard TimeSUN
Begin civil twilight 352 a.m.
Sunrise 425 a.m.
Sun transit 1156 a.m.
Sunset 726 p.m.
End civil twilight 800 p.m.MOON
Moonrise 623 p.m. on preceding day
Moonset 418 a.m.
Moonrise 704 p.m.
Moon transit 1208 a.m. on following day
Moonset 516 a.m. on following dayFull Moon on 11 July 1957 at 450 p.m. Central Standard Time.
22 minutes Moonrise before Sunsets
3 July 1993 Central Daylight Time
Sunset 829 p.m.
Moonrise 815 p.m.14 minutes Moonrise before Sunset
Few observations
973 night the power better than thousand shr
It's more precise, as better than single shr amplified 1000. Not written as 1000 ashr plural.If calculating full moon or month, carrying him <= 6 lunar months; i.e. after 12 weeks weight is felt.
Using word substitution?
4615 and carrying him and his separation (for) thirty shra
3114 and his separation <= Aamyn (2 x 12 lunar months)30 shra - 24 lunar months his separation <= 6 lunar months carrying him
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From http//aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/RST_defs.php
Please see the detailed data below (specifically the times marked in red), which shows that the full-moon will technically appear at almost the same time the sun disappears and not before the sun by 8 minutes as you indicated. According to the data, 2105 is when the full-moon upper edge appears (not the whole symmetric full moon as the great reading clearly states). Now keeping in mind that the full-moon (and the sun) angular width is 0.5 degrees, by the time the entire full-moon appears over the horizon it will be about 2010 and the sun would be below the horizon. Also, keep in mind that due to haze on the horizon and uneven terrain, even in a flat desert the full-moon will practically not be visible until it is 1-2 degrees above the horizon. So under the best circumstances it would be around 2120 when Londoners would see the full-moon. As I previously said, as far as I know, this is true anywhere on earth except in extreme latitudes where the sun doesn?t set.Peace
The more one gets to the North the longer the time appears to be between the rise of the full moon and the sunset.
For instance EdinburghU.S. Naval Observatory
Astronomical Applications Department
Sun and Moon Data for One Day
The following information is provided for Edinburgh (longitude W3.2, latitude N55.9)
Friday
15 July 2011 Universal Time + 1hSUN
Begin civil twilight 0352
Sunrise 0448
Sun transit 1319
Sunset 2149
End civil twilight 2245MOON
Moonrise 2109 on preceding day
Moon transit 0103
Moonset 0505
Moonrise 2135
Moonset 0624 on following dayFull Moon on 15 July 2011 at 0740 (Universal Time + 1h).
This shows that there is not a general valid sequence, for places with sunset, that can be deduced from verses 8416-18.
May be more to the South there would be a more consequent sequence of first the sunset and then the rise of the full moon.But the wording -the night and what it enshrouds- of verse 8417 disproves a possible sequence of events. The time just after sunset is a part of the -nahar- not of the -lail-, because just after sunset actually there is no darkness to cover things from sight. The full moon is already visible before the actual darkness is starting.
Anyway in the wording of verses 8416-18 one can not find a linkage with the start of the fasting.
Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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Peace all,
If data is gathered for past traditional months of Ramadan and 1st visible full moon ...
http//www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/data-services/rs-one-day-us
Ramadan in 2011 will start on Monday, the 1st of August
Sun and Moon Data for One Day
The following information is provided for Anchorage, Anchorage Borough, Alaska (longitude W149.9, latitude N61.2)
Saturday
13 August 2011 Alaska Daylight TimeSUN
Begin civil twilight 506 a.m.
Sunrise 602 a.m.
Sun transit 204 p.m.
Sunset 1004 p.m.
End civil twilight 1100 p.m.MOON
Moonrise 913 p.m. on preceding day
Moon transit 142 a.m.
Moonset 624 a.m.
Moonrise 922 p.m.
Moonset 747 a.m. on following dayFull Moon on 13 August 2011 at 1058 a.m. Alaska Daylight Time.
The following information is provided for Chicago, Cook County, Illinois (longitude W87.7, latitude N41.9)
Saturday
13 August 2011 Central Daylight TimeSUN
Begin civil twilight 526 a.m.
Sunrise 557 a.m.
Sun transit 1256 p.m.
Sunset 754 p.m.
End civil twilight 824 p.m.MOON
Moonrise 707 p.m. on preceding day
Moon transit 1225 a.m.
Moonset 551 a.m.
Moonrise 735 p.m.
Moonset 653 a.m. on following dayFull Moon on 13 August 2011 at 158 p.m. Central Daylight Time.
The following information is provided for Mauna Loa, Maui County, Hawaii (longitude W157.2, latitude N21.1)
Friday
12 August 2011 Hawaii-Aleutian Standard TimeSUN
Begin civil twilight 543 a.m.
Sunrise 607 a.m.
Sun transit 1234 p.m.
Sunset 701 p.m.
End civil twilight 724 p.m.MOON
Moonrise 541 p.m. on preceding day
Moonset 511 a.m.
Moonrise 622 p.m.
Moon transit 1212 a.m. on following day
Moonset 605 a.m. on following dayPhase of the Moon on 12 August waxing gibbous with 99% of the Moon's visible disk illuminated.
Full Moon on 13 August 2011 at 858 a.m. (Hawaii-Aleutian Standard Time).
http//oi51.tinypic.com/v8g00x.jpg
2185 shr (full moon) Ra-Mim-Dad -- to be blasted by the sun. (both visible at same time)
936 indeed count al-shwr with Allah (for) twelve shra
937 they make it allowed (for) Aama and make it prohibited (for) AamaI've checked prior years and believe the above pattern continues indefinetly...
Ramadan 2010 11th of August
Sun and Moon Data for One DayThe following information is provided for Anchorage, Anchorage Borough, Alaska (longitude W149.9, latitude N61.2)
Wednesday
22 September 2010 Alaska Daylight TimeSUN
Begin civil twilight 701 a.m.
Sunrise 744 a.m.
Sun transit 152 p.m.
Sunset 759 p.m.
End civil twilight 842 p.m.MOON
Moonrise 707 p.m. on preceding day
Moon transit 104 a.m.
Moonset 721 a.m.
Moonrise 710 p.m.
Moonset 841 a.m. on following dayPhase of the Moon on 22 September waxing gibbous with 100% of the Moon's visible disk illuminated.
Full Moon on 23 September 2010 at 118 a.m. Alaska Daylight Time.The following information is provided for Chicago, Cook County, Illinois (longitude W87.7, latitude N41.9)
Wednesday
22 September 2010 Central Daylight TimeSUN
Begin civil twilight 610 a.m.
Sunrise 638 a.m.
Sun transit 1243 p.m.
Sunset 648 p.m.
End civil twilight 716 p.m.MOON
Moonrise 548 p.m. on preceding day
Moon transit 1149 p.m. on preceding day
Moonset 558 a.m.
Moonrise 610 p.m.
Moonset 658 a.m. on following dayPhase of the Moon on 22 September waxing gibbous with 99% of the Moon's visible disk illuminated.
Full Moon on 23 September 2010 at 418 a.m. Central Daylight Time.The following information is provided for Mauna Loa, Maui County, Hawaii (longitude W157.2, latitude N21.1)
Wednesday
22 September 2010 Hawaii-Aleutian Standard TimeSUN
Begin civil twilight 556 a.m.
Sunrise 618 a.m.
Sun transit 1221 p.m.
Sunset 625 p.m.
End civil twilight 647 p.m.MOON
Moonrise 527 p.m. on preceding day
Moonset 546 a.m.
Moonrise 600 p.m.
Moon transit 1215 a.m. on following day
Moonset 635 a.m. on following dayFull Moon on 22 September 2010 at 1118 p.m. (Hawaii-Aleutian Standard Time).
Ramadan 2009 21 August
Sun and Moon Data for One DayThe following information is provided for Anchorage, Anchorage Borough, Alaska (longitude W149.9, latitude N61.2)
Thursday
3 September 2009 Alaska Daylight TimeSUN
Begin civil twilight 611 a.m.
Sunrise 657 a.m.
Sun transit 159 p.m.
Sunset 858 p.m.
End civil twilight 944 p.m.MOON
Moonrise 820 p.m. on preceding day
Moon transit 101 a.m.
Moonset 558 a.m.
Moonrise 821 p.m.
Moonset 723 a.m. on following dayPhase of the Moon on 3 September waxing gibbous with 99% of the Moon's visible disk illuminated.
Full Moon on 4 September 2009 at 803 a.m. Alaska Daylight Time.The following information is provided for Chicago, Cook County, Illinois (longitude W87.7, latitude N41.9)
Thursday
3 September 2009 Central Daylight TimeSUN
Begin civil twilight 550 a.m.
Sunrise 619 a.m.
Sun transit 1250 p.m.
Sunset 720 p.m.
End civil twilight 749 p.m.MOON
Moonrise 621 p.m. on preceding day
Moon transit 1145 p.m. on preceding day
Moonset 516 a.m.
Moonrise 644 p.m.
Moonset 619 a.m. on following dayPhase of the Moon on 3 September waxing gibbous with 99% of the Moon's visible disk illuminated.
Full Moon on 4 September 2009 at 1103 a.m. Central Daylight Time.
The following information is provided for Mauna Loa, Maui County, Hawaii (longitude W157.2, latitude N21.1)
Thursday
3 September 2009 Hawaii-Aleutian Standard TimeSUN
Begin civil twilight 551 a.m.
Sunrise 613 a.m.
Sun transit 1228 p.m.
Sunset 643 p.m.
End civil twilight 705 p.m.MOON
Moonrise 539 p.m. on preceding day
Moonset 526 a.m.
Moonrise 613 p.m.
Moon transit 1213 a.m. on following day
Moonset 617 a.m. on following dayPhase of the Moon on 3 September waxing gibbous with 99% of the Moon's visible disk illuminated.
Full Moon on 4 September 2009 at 603 a.m. (Hawaii-Aleutian Standard Time).
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Few observations
973 night the power better than thousand shr
It's more precise, as better than single shr amplified 1000. Not written as 1000 ashr plural.If calculating full moon or month, carrying him <= 6 lunar months; i.e. after 12 weeks weight is felt.
Using word substitution?
4615 and carrying him and his separation (for) thirty shra
3114 and his separation <= Aamyn (2 x 12 lunar months)30 shra - 24 lunar months his separation <= 6 lunar months carrying him
Correction, it should be?
30 shra ? 24 (or less) lunar months his separation => 6 (to 10) lunar months carrying himIf data is gathered for past traditional months of Ramadan and 1st visible full moon ...
http//www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/data-services/rs-one-day-us
http//oi51.tinypic.com/v8g00x.jpg
2185 shr (full moon) Ra-Mim-Dad -- to be blasted by the sun. (both visible at same time)
936 indeed count al-shwr with Allah (for) twelve shra
937 they make it allowed (for) Aama and make it prohibited (for) AamaI've checked prior years and believe the above pattern continues indefinetly...
It's not unique for the above 12 count cycle and seems to exist for every full moon.
The question remains how to identify Ramadan 12 count cycle; i.e. if one was on an island?
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Peace brother Eid,
Few observations
973 night the power better than thousand shr
It's more precise, as better than single shr amplified 1000. Not written as 1000 ashr plural.In Arabic this is the case for all plurals above ten. For example, you also say 50,000 sana (year) and not 50,000 sanawat (years). You also say 1000 lyla (night) not 1000 layaly (nights). You also say 1000 ragl (man) and you don't say 1000 regal (men).
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace brother Eid,
In Arabic this is the case for all plurals above ten. For example, you also say 50,000 sana (year) and not 50,000 sanawat (years). You also say 1000 lyla (night) not 1000 layaly (nights). You also say 1000 ragl (man) and you don't say 1000 regal (men).
Peace,
Ayman
Peace bro Ayman,
Yes, thanks that makes sense; not sure why sunnah written as or snh is interpreted as year?
As in other languages roads/ways is used to mean multiples/times which resolves many of the issues...
296 if he could be granted life a thousand times
2255 Allah - no God only Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of all that exists;
Not overtakes Him time and not sleep.
526 forbidden to them forty times they will wander in the earth
1513 not they believe in it and truly have passed time the past
1777 way whom truly We sent before you of Our Messengers. And not you will find (in our way) any change.
1854-55 And indeed We have explained in this the Quran to humanity of every example and is the human most things quarrelsome. And what prevents the human that they believe when has come to them the guidance and they ask their Lord, only that comes to them time the past or comes to them the punishment ahead?
2247 Day/time with your Lord like thousand times/ways from what you reckon
29149 and indeed, We sent Noah to his people and he remained among them thousand times only (for) fifty Aama/years
325 Day/time measure which is thousand times from what you reckon
3338, 3362 time/way Allah
4615 and carrying him and his separation (for) thirty shra until when he reaches asdh and reaches forty times he says, "My Lord ...forty multiples/times/ways is perhaps stage # of cell splits since inception
2^40 2x2x2x2... = 1,097,728,000,000 or trillion divisions until adulthood4823 time/way Allah which passed away from before and never you will find lisunnati in (the) way of Allah any change.
701-4 asked a questioner about a punishment bound to happen to the disbelievers not of it any preventer from Allah owner the ways of ascent. Ascend al-malikatu wal-ru to Him in a day/time is its measure fifty thousand times
705 so be patient...Likewise, snh feminine cannot be the same as Aam masculine or snyn masculine plural.
2259 hundred Aam/year ... then He raised him. He said, "How long you remained?"He said, "I remained a day or part a day." He said, "No, you remained hundred Aam/year so look at your food and your drink not change time ytsnh
928 Aamhm/year theirs
937 they make it allowed (for) Aama/year and make it prohibited (for) Aama/year
9126 do not they see that they are tried in every Aam/year once or twice?
1249 then comes from after that Aam/year in it will be given abundant rain the people and in it they will press."
3114 and his separation in Aamyn/two years7130 We seized people Firaun bal-snyn/in the years and scarcity of the fruits
105 & 1712 that you may know amount al-snyn/the years and the count
1242 so he remained in the prison short snyn/years
1247-49 he said, "You will sow seven snyn/years as usual so what you reap so leave it in its ears except little from what you eat. Then comes from after that seven hard consume what you advanced for them except from what you store. Then comes from after that Aam/year in it will be given abundant rain the people and in it they will press."
1811 so We cast over their ears in the cave snyn/years amount (duration in cave not specified)
1825 and they remained in their cave three hundred snyn/years and add nine
300 x 12 months + 9 solar years = 300.067473 solar years is speculation refuted in the next verse...
1826 Say, "Allah knows best about what they remained...
23112 he?ll ask "how long did you remain in the earth, amount snyn/years?
2618 he said, didn't we bring you up among us a child, and you remained among us from your life snyn/years?
26205 We let them enjoy snyn/years
304 in short snyn/years
2040 so you remained snyn/years among people madyanPeace,
Eid -
Salaam
The Qur'an enjoins those who witness the month of Ramadan to fast in it.
How does one witness a month? When you experience the day breaking and ending for around thirty/29 days. So those who live in the s/northern hemisphere do not witness some months, as the sun never sets or rises and so there is no distinct separation at dawn or towards night. This is a basic requirement for starting and ending fast and as one commentator said ? a common principle that any who suffers from impractibility, the relevant provision of law does not apply to him?
Best regards
farida -
Peace,
This was probably already discussed, but as evident this thread is way too enormous to go through to find the answer.
I was just wondering why the "old palm sheath" metaphor for crescent, when the word for crescent is already clearly used? Does the metaphor lend to any additional clues or anything?
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Salam,
I was just wondering why the "old palm sheath" metaphor for crescent, when the word for crescent is already clearly used? Does the metaphor lend to any additional clues or anything?
Because it is not referring to the "crescent", but the full moon (the old palm sheaths fall to both sides, making a full circle shape).
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It has been a very long time since I have posted on this site and am not sure if my concern even fits this category but my question is why is it assumed that fasting means forsaking food and drink when the only example of fasting cited in the book is of Mary mother of Eesa and her example of fasting was no talking? Where is the command from Al Ilahe(The god) to abstain from food and drink?
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It has been a very long time since I have posted on this site and am not sure if my concern even fits this category but my question is why is it assumed that fasting means forsaking food and drink when the only example of fasting cited in the book is of Mary mother of Eesa and her example of fasting was no talking? Where is the command from Al Ilahe(The god) to abstain from food and drink?
The Holy Quran, Surah Al Baqarah 2187
?Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are limits (set by) Allah Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men that they may learn self-restraint
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Ok, I am well aware of this ayat but the problem still remains in my mind concerning the fast of Mary mother of Eesa being that she not speak not eating played no part in this description of what fasting entails. The ayat that you quoted does not say "and abstain from eating and drinking and sexual intercourse". Other than the description of the fast of Mary, not speaking, there is no other ayah that describes what exactly entails, is there?
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Because it is not referring to the "crescent", but the full moon (the old palm sheaths fall to both sides, making a full circle shape).
This is incorrect because the passage uses the singular "sheath" while, as you can see, you had to use the plural sheaths to turn it into the sheaths falling on both sides (even this is an incorrect imagery since it doesn't have the same shape of the full round circle of the full-moon).
Since the passage talks about a single sheath then this is clearly referring to the crescent shape.
The passage talks about descending stages "manazil" (from NZL Descend). Since the moon can only descend in size from the full-moon, then it is clearly talking about the cycle starting from the full-moon and descending in stages until it becomes a crescent.
Peace,
Ayman
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Assalaamu wa alaikum
it returns as a curved sheath (singular). so the new moon is basically the zero moon or the astronomical new moon, which is before the crescent. when there is no moon in the sky.
the main problem is that the moon cycle is not a strict 29 or 30 days. rather 29.53 days. sometimes you will not see the new moon because the new moon might take place when it is day on earth, and by the time the sun sets, the crescent has already appeared.
if the moon returns as a curved sheath. then the next phase after the waning crescent is no moon in the sky, which can be easily confirmed through naked eye and telescope, where neither can contradict each other.
as shahr is something obvious it may be the phase when there is no moon, and it is obvious, even if you go to a mountain you won't see it.
as our calendar is similar to the scripture, the people of the book also use the astonomical new moon which is the zero moon to identify the new month.
Regarding the month of ramadhan, my opinion is there are a couple of definitions for the word ramadh, with i think shortness of rations predominating the heat interpretation.
if we denote rabi al awwal as the start of the grazing season, which starts in april, the grazing season finishes in autumn. there is shortness of rations as the trees shed their foliage. If we take rabia al awwal as april in the grazing season, then if we count down the months till ramadhan in order, we will find that it falls in october which falls in autumn.
in addition the word ramidha is used as a name in muslims and arabs and means white rose. As you know white roses or in general roses are particularly attached with autumn.
http//www.special-dictionary.com/names/r/ramidha_14.htm
that is why we have the famous " autumn rose "
As seasons are based on harvest, i would interpret ramadhan as ramidha or shortness of rations.
Salaam
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Peace Nadeem,
it returns as a curved sheath (singular). so the new moon is basically the zero moon or the astronomical new moon, which is before the crescent. when there is no moon in the sky.
Have you ever seen a curved sheath?? It is certainly not invisible like the zero moon or even barely visible like the new moon crescent.
Also, the shape of the curved sheath can be either the waning crescent or the waxing crescent. How did you decide which one?
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace everyone peace
I Just wanted to note that the Qurna states that in sura 9
The hypocrites worry that a sura may be revealed exposing what is inside their hearts. Say, "Go ahead and mock. GOD will expose exactly what you are afraid of."(964)
"...They said, "Let us not mobilize in this heat!" Say, "The fire of Hell is much hotter," if they could only comprehend. (981)
"Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed...(2185)
Based on this evidence, can is it not rightfull to say that the "scorching hot" month is the month of ramadan
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Peace All,
I have just gone through this whole thread from when it started years back. Phew! What a fantastic read. Can anyone tell me the names of the 4 restricted months?
Peace.
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Salaam
The Qur'an enjoins those who witness the month of Ramadan to fast in it.
How does one witness a month? When you experience the day breaking and ending for around thirty/29 days. So those who live in the s/northern hemisphere do not witness some months, as the sun never sets or rises and so there is no distinct separation at dawn or towards night. This is a basic requirement for starting and ending fast and as one commentator said ? a common principle that any who suffers from impractibility, the relevant provision of law does not apply to him?
Best regards
faridasalam,
In the qur'an are signs for people who use their god given reasoning faculty.
If one asks how can one witness a month, then this person must continue asking other questions, such as how can one fast a full moon, or how can one fast while at work on the space station. Yet a better thoughtful question, how can believers fast someday while working on the moon itself.I mean no ills for anyone.
sincerely
khodr -
Peace everyone peace
I Just wanted to note that the Qurna states that in sura 9
Quote
The hypocrites worry that a sura may be revealed exposing what is inside their hearts. Say, "Go ahead and mock. GOD will expose exactly what you are afraid of."(964)Quote
"...They said, "Let us not mobilize in this heat!" Say, "The fire of Hell is much hotter," if they could only comprehend. (981)
Quote"Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed...(2185)
Based on this evidence, can is it not rightfull to say that the "scorching hot" month is the month of ramadandear youssef
was the Quran not revealed in stages? can we really conclude from the wording of Sura 9 that- something was really revealed because the subjunctive is used (The hypocrites worry that a sura may be revealed exposing what is inside their hearts.)
- deduced from the fact that the entire Quran was sent down completely during Ramadan?
If this was so, then your conclusions are correct.
If he was not fully revealed in Ramadan, but over a longer period, then your conclusions are not correct and Ayman could be quite.
how the Koran was sent down? confused
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was the Quran not revealed in stages? can we really conclude from the wording of Sura 9 that
- something was really revealed because the subjunctive is used (The hypocrites worry that a sura may be revealed exposing what is inside their hearts.)
- deduced from the fact that the entire Quran was sent down completely during Ramadan?
If this was so, then your conclusions are correct.
If he was not fully revealed in Ramadan, but over a longer period, then your conclusions are not correct and Ayman could be quite.
how the Koran was sent down? confused
I think that the key is to understand the difference between INZAL (happens during the night of measure/ the scorching full moon, which also happens during the hot time of the year) and TANZIL (happens gradually on the heart of the prophet). One can then see that the two complement each other and are not mutually exclusive. This was discussed previously in the forum.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
