Chapter 2 (verses 51-100)
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Peace all
Im an interested in the various meanings of the arabic word(s) used for 'kill yourselves' in your translation, this because Khalifa has translated it as 'kill your egos.' All feedback is appreciated.
- And Moses said to his people ?O my people, you have wronged your souls by taking the calf, so repent to your Maker, and kill yourselves. That is better for you with your Maker, so He would forgive you. He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.?
- And you said ?O Moses, we will not believe you until we see God openly!? So the lightning bolt took you while you were still staring.
- Then We resurrected you after your death that you may be appreciative.
pz
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Peace,
RAMA-DHANA=2 words
2185 Months of shedding of thoughts which is transmitted in it - the Qur?an - a guide for mankind and the explanation from the guidance and the criterion. Hence whoever witness from among you the months (52) - thus he shall abstain - and whoever is unfit or on assignments - thus fix it from the days later. God wishes with you the convenience - and He wishes not with you the hardship - and that you may complete the counts - and you shall glorify God over whatever He has guided you - so that you may be appreciative.
The word in this verse is rama-dhor-naa Rama (817) which literally means to throw, cast or shed and dhan means thought, contemplate, think or consider The Arabic Hijrah calendar was not created after the 12th year Muhammad became a prophet. The month of ramadhan never exist during his time. The first month of the Arabic calendar is ?mu-harram?. The message of the Quran is transmitted into the heart of individuals by Gabriel (297) as the on-going process and it can happen in any month of the year.
The word ?fal-ya-sum-hu? means ?thus he shall abstain himself? as self-discipline once he knows the knowledge from God?s Book. A man abstains himself from eating and drinking from dawn to the night for a certain number of days 2184 if he fails in taking the challenge in promoting God?s guidance 2196 or breaks a pledge 589 - abstain himself from participating in war for two months 492 ? from hunting until the animals mature 595 ? from resuming sexual intercourse for two months if he decides to reconcile with his wife after saying - if he had sexual intercourse with the wife during the separation period it is just like having sex with his own mother 584. To abstain from speeches - to avoid a war of words 1926. -
Salam Grourself,
I'm not sure i really follow what you are saying...
firstly, i can't find the quote that you mentioned. the word rama is used in surah 817 but not in the way that you used it. i also looked at the verse before it and after. am I missing something here?
also, as far as the months not existing before the prophet, i was pretty sure that they did exist already. what makes you say they didn't? but that's a very minor point... the major point is...
i dont know how aware you are of arabic, but DH in English dont cut it. Yes, DHAN (thought) and ramaDHAN seem the same, but they use totally different letters in Arabic. i.e. you are making a simple spelling mistake.
Now correct me if i've misunderstood anything... but as far as i can see, you should be very disturbed by whatever you've been taught.. clearly you didn't have the know-how to come up with this silly business yourself. where are you guys getting this??? care to share your sources???
wassalam
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Salaams sabo,
I think Grourself is onto something understandable.By the way.
(QD) Tells you Dha'n=Niggerdilly/Greedy.e.t.c
your word Zha'n is a different word,but i couldn't find that.
Ramy = cast/ throw.
This is same procedure as for The Khanzeer,words.
Bye.
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Peace all,
Yes, DHAN (thought)
You confuse DHAN and Zhan
DHAN =
thought/ZHAN =
In the verb "dhanna = , there is the notion of the avarice
- And he withholds not in secret/avariciously the least bit of the Revelation.
Wama huwa AAala alghaybi bidaneenin/
Lama3aan----->shiny
The verb lama3a-----------> to shine
The root L/M/3/In the same way
The root of ramadan is "R/M/Dh"The letter N doesn't belong to the root
Peace
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Peace be upon you Khalil,
Regarding the verse where "musa" told his people to kill thierselves, I do not translate "nafs" as SELF. I beleive that "nafs" is "MIND", so he told them to KILL thier MINDS they had, meaning to get rid of thier rejecting thoughts.
The God tells us that He does not change the condition of a people until they change what is in thier MINDS(nafs).
I hope that helps.
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Salam
Here is Ramadhan
And here is dhan
and here is Rama
rama, and dhan are written completely different, than in the word ramadhan.
What about learning some arabic, before trying to analyse its words?
Just a suggestion
Best regards,
saboPeace,
Sabo, firstly the analysis was not my own and secondly I suggest you curb your ignorant remarks and grow up. You have no idea what I know. Any Arab child learns Arabic. Intelligence is another matter. Intelligent people know how to disagree without resorting to insults or mockery. The insults usually reflect ones lack of convincing proof for a position or lack of true understanding of the position put forth which is still no excuse for bad behavior. This behavior is the cause of divisions among mankind. I?m amazed that someone would have to remind you or anyone here that God has warned us to ?be not like the pagans? and become divided. He has also warned us against arrogance, pride and self-righteousness. Read and reflex on sura Luqman.
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Dear brother mz,
believe me, grourself is not onto something...
dear grourself,
the other members here have clarified to you what i thought should have been obvious... so let me add a few more critiques if you weren't embarassed enough by your simple spelling mistake.
A very common wazan used in Arabic is of the form fe'laan, fi'laan, or fu'laan... such as FURQan, QURan, RIDWan, KASLan,TA'Ban, ... all of these words are formed by adding "an" to the root, and it is NOT part of the root. So deconstructing ramadan in the way you have (which has never been done before) seems rather out of place, especially since you totally ignore the MOST common way of deconstructing it. One can only assume its due to total ignorance of Arabic grammar, especially since you cant spell correctly!
Not only did you make one spelling mistake but you made 2... i am not fancy enough to be able to post in arabic so i will post in transliteration.
DTHANN (thought) is not only spelled differently from ramaDaan by the first letter (dwaad)... but it also has 2 noons in the root. Ramadaan only has one noon in the root. To conclude that daan in ramadaan is from thann is actually committing 2 spelling mistakes at once!!
Now there are all sorts of mistakes to be made in this world, but you dont want to be on the losing team because of a silly spelling mistake.
So anyway, if it's not painfully obvious yet to you, I dont know what else to say. But clearly, you did not derive this by yourself. So please, grace all of us on this forum and please br mz why dont you chime in as well... where is this strange teaching coming from?
ws
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Dear brother mz,
believe me, grourself is not onto something...
dear grourself,
the other members here have clarified to you what i thought should have been obvious... so let me add a few more critiques if you weren't embarassed enough by your simple spelling mistake.
A very common wazan used in Arabic is of the form fe'laan, fi'laan, or fu'laan... such as FURQan, QURan, RIDWan, KASLan,TA'Ban, ... all of these words are formed by adding "an" to the root, and it is NOT part of the root. So deconstructing ramadan in the way you have (which has never been done before) seems rather out of place, especially since you totally ignore the MOST common way of deconstructing it. One can only assume its due to total ignorance of Arabic grammar, especially since you cant spell correctly!
Not only did you make one spelling mistake but you made 2... i am not fancy enough to be able to post in arabic so i will post in transliteration.
DTHANN (thought) is not only spelled differently from ramaDaan by the first letter (dwaad)... but it also has 2 noons in the root. Ramadaan only has one noon in the root. To conclude that daan in ramadaan is from thann is actually committing 2 spelling mistakes at once!!
Now there are all sorts of mistakes to be made in this world, but you dont want to be on the losing team because of a silly spelling mistake.
So anyway, if it's not painfully obvious yet to you, I dont know what else to say. But clearly, you did not derive this by yourself. So please, grace all of us on this forum and please br mz why dont you chime in as well... where is this strange teaching coming from?
ws
Blah, blah, blah...that is what is taught in "grammar" school to children. I am versed in what you have presented. Sadly your presentation smacks of a closed mind. If I accepted your proof at face value without investigation I would be as you are and a blind follower of pagan arabs. I am not overly interested in what the majority understands or the books the arabs have written on grammar or their dictionaries which include things like "salaat" ritual prayer or zakat "poor-rate". God says He explains and teaches the Book, not them. This word ramadhan is unique if understood "as is". My intellect is not yours. Mines tells me that the backwards calendar or month named by them and used by the arabs is not what God is referring to in the Book. I will continue to search for the correct meaning. My post concerning this word was meant as food for thought and never presented as the "last word". I believe I said, "Try this on for size". It's amazing that you "know it all". Where is your translation of the Qur'an? Perhaps we should all be quiet and just sit back and listen and allow you to "teach" the Qur'an. God has made laws for guidance. His laws never change and He has promised to guide those who seek guidance and His promise never fails. I shall trust in Him. (not arab grammar books).
If you follow the majority on earth they will lead you astray.
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Salam,
Salaams sabo,
I think Grourself is onto something understandableI beg you to learn arabic before telling me what you think , thanks.
I will forward the rational portion of your disagreements to the author.
Yeah and please try to forward to him that we beg him to learn arabic before analysing its words )
thanks.
Best regards,
sabo -
Dear Grourself,
Why is it that after 2 straightforward requests, you are too shy/embarassed/?? to tell us WHO this author is?
Here's the thing grourself, if you had presented your argument in a rational fashion which means no spelling mistakes, acknowledging and explaining why the conventional grammar is wrong... i might have still said i disagree with you, but i would also say heck this guy knows his stuff.
But to be SO pro for a particular argument that despite 2 ridiculous spelling mistakes, and ignoring all the BASIC rules of grammar that are not derived merely by ARABS but are derived from the Arabic used THROUGHOUT the Quran... aren't you being the one that's closed minded?
Frankly, if I was in your position (and I have been in your position), i would be very embarassed. But just like any closed minded person, you are just that much more vocal and enraged. But I'm not surprised because many people in this world are closed minded... you must have been open minded at some point, where you accepted this very strange belief... but now you seem to have closed out any possibility of you being wrong.
But then again, its not you who is wrong... its whoever this mysterious author who shall not be named.
I am not an Arab, nor did I grow up learning Arabic. I went through great pains to learn Arabic, and attempt to understand the Quran through itself. Not through the words of others. And truly, if you have no clue about Arabic or Arabic grammar then you are on loose soil. Traditional grammar teachings CAN be wrong, nothing is infallible outside the Quran. BUT, you can't be so cavalier that you mispell, ignore all exisiting grammatical rules, and adopt a teaching that would be SO radical that it would not only change how you understand the word RAMADAN, but also QURAN, FURQAN, KASLAN, IRFAN, TABAAN, IMTIHAAN, etc etc etc...
even the most basic student of Arabic can see that one of the most beautiful parts of Arabic is the simple rule, one root for one word.
if you still think ramadaan refers to something else by all means give us the historical reasoning, and your research. but dont resort to grammatical/linguistic analysis because it just won't work.
wassalam
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Salaams sabo ,
i wasn't telling you what i think,i smply stated that as a general remark ,rather i was showing you how, your article was slightly misleading ,as politely as was possible,thanks.By giving the meaning of Zhan and not Dhan.
And no i don't intend to learn Arabic whether thats an offence to you or not.
And some people here think you have to have a degree in arabic or something to be able to understand ,it.
I personally would say the Arabs ,have made fools of the world ,for a long long time ,And Allah willing it will end gradually.
No disrespects,meant.
Allah hafiz. -
bro mz357,
"no i don't intend to learn Arabic"
"some people here think you have to have a degree in arabic or something to be able to understand it"
let me ask you, how do you portend to understand Arabic without learning it? Pray tell what is this superhuman characteristic of yours, since most people on this planet need to learn a language in order to understand it.
There is only one advantage for you not to learn arabic... and that is so that you can continue to believe your mysterious masters words who has so mesmerized you, that you would rather take his/their words rather than approach the Quran with an open mind. (The definition of open-mind being to accept ones fallibility especially when confronted with undeniable proofs/disproofs)
ws
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Peace,
Take a deep breath my brothers! lol
I don?t usually engage in this sort of internet rhetoric because the anonymous relationships somehow breed arrogance and self righteousness in many but I want to be clear on something
?Try this on for size? equals a closed mind ????
I would also like to make a comment on the issue of the author. My omission was deliberate. Intellectual debates do not require the author?s identity when debating on the facts put forward. Not mentioning the author eliminates two very possible and probable reactions
- It prevents blind followers from simply jumping on the side of those they allow to lead them.
- It precludes certain personality types from expressing perceived or unperceived prejudices before considering the facts.
Some people learn only with concrete learning materials, i.e., grammar rules, and others are able to learn in the abstract and can perceive concepts communicated by looking at the big picture. The human mind is complex and we are not all alike. What is the good of attacking someone or being sarcastic and snide simply because they understand something differently than you? Spelling? read this
Could this be why generation after generation those fluent in Arabic have failed to recognize the insidious corruptions in translations of God?s guidance in Qur'aan Majeed?
Could this be why they have failed to notice these translations and concepts make no sense?
Or are they simply ?sheeple??
The paomnnehil pweor of the hmuan mnid. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. >The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Perety amzanig huh?
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I take the truth where I find it. Believe me when I tell you my mind is open to the ?possibilities?. The pagan Arabs have corrupted and perverted the plain, clear, easy teachings in the Qur'aan. That?s why we are here now attempting to ?crack the code? or perhaps it as God intended. Those sincere would have to seek the guidance. The Arabs have not been made keepers of the faith as they would have mankind believe. A dictionary or a grammar book can be WRONG!
I know some need to believe that every dot and tittle in the Qur'aan is as it has always been and nothing has been changed but the concept of God preserving, and protecting the message and guidance in the Book does not necessarily mean that every diacritical mark is as it should be. However, that is ones right to believe such a thing. When one is pragmatic that understanding seems unreasonable and could be construed as blind faith. It seems an indefensible position. I find what I can understand of the Qur'aan to be totally pragmatic. That understanding, ?every dot and tittle?, is exactly what Christians are now using against Islam when they produce different versions of the Qur'aan e.g. Warsh vs. Hafs. Preservation through word of mouth is even less defensible. God says He is the preserver, and guardian of the Book. Does He tell you how He accomplishes this? I?m not sure, are you? Let?s resign ourselves to just debating the facts, pros and cons, and allow for all open and free minds to express themselves. Let?s question, reason and think! We might learn something. Those convinced do not fall down deaf and blind even at the words we read in the Qur'aan. I hope these words reflect my sincerity and I offer the verses below to defend this position.
2573 ? And who, whenever they are reminded of even the Revelations of their Lord, do not fall at them deaf and blind (with deaf and blind acceptance).
218 Deaf, dumb and blind of Reason. They won?t return to begin their journey in the right direction until they use their faculties of perception and reasoning (822, 1676,1736).
2171 The attitude of blind following drags people to subhuman level (7179). Like a herd of sheep they understand nothing but only hear calls that are meaningless to them. They just inherit the senseless actions of their ancestors. Deaf, dumb, blind because they choose not to use their faculties. Such people, of course, fail to attain sense.
822 The worst of creations in the Sight of Allah are those deaf, those dumb who do not use their intellect (218, 1676).
