Does anyone know where I can find a Suni?
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haha how about this gem that I was just replied with
"As for your question, you are ignorant of how the hadeeth were preserved- ignorant of the glorious memory of the Arabs, ignorant all the way through- indeed, your compound ignorance is quite disconcerting."
The glorious memory...over two+ centuries. Over many generations. Over the very minutiae of personal life.
I do not think it is possible to get through to people so entrenched in their views. However, like belh said, we can hope to at least open the minds of some people stalking the forums who are on the fence.
Jafar, I don't think I could ask them that question, it might get too heated!
That, is why mind trick is an interesting method, when all methods fail. Mind trick is like a gun, use either for Evil or Good.
Don't loose hope, Allah is all Knowing.
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Thank you brother. It does not metter if they kick us out. we can join using different emails. I will not give up the fight. peace
Salaam Brother BelH,
In this thread you are defending the killing rule from Quran perspective.
http//www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?79213-Why-do-you-believe-in-hadith/page19You made a good point but I just want to say that you didn?t have to look that far.
Please read chapter 9 carefully, it?s from the beginning all ready understood to who this chapter is referring but I think that verse 913 is very clear to who this ?killing rule? is referring.913
Pickthall Will ye not fight a folk who broke their solemn pledges, and purposed to drive out the messenger and did attack you first? What! Fear ye them? Now Allah hath more right that ye should fear Him, if ye are believers -
By the way, anyone who is watching this thread, it would be good (if you have time) to post on here some refutations to any of the sunni posts that you believe are, in particular, infringing upon logic/the Qur'an/whatever.
However, I don't think they will be listening to us for much longer I'm afraid.
Thanks,
Ty
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"When a foolish person speaks, do not reply to him, for better than responding to him is to remain silent. If you speak to him, you have assisted him, but if you ignore him, he dies out of extreme grief." Imam Al-Shaafi'i (rahimahullah)
rotfl
What happens when they are the ones who are foolish. That is a nice statement to keep a person close-minded and brainwashed.
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Their replies are simply questions posed to our own question. They have not answered anything yet. However, I can't think of anything that will stump them. Any ideas?
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I used to be on that forum, long ago. But, they don't like women much who question. I was not a favorite. I was told it is not my right to be jealous of men having more than one wife.. and I would ENJOY seeing my husband so satisfied sexually in heaven. uggg.. pigs.
I asked once, what is the science of scholarship? Who says so and so is a scholar? I was fed so much BS.
I need to find the hadith, But ask them why Bukari refused to get hadiths from the man who tricked his horse. But accepts Abu Hurarah when he ADMITS in a hadith he would lie about his memorization of QURAN to get a free meal from the Sahaba..... Wow.. an honest liar.. maybe thats is why......lol
Ask them why do muslims pray so different. Hands folded, hands not folded? Loud ameen, silent ameem. Blood negates wudo, blood does not. How can we follow texts that divide so many. Ask them.. WHAT SCHOOL OF THOUGHT/ MADHAB WAS PROPHET MUHAMMAD? You will start a war between them..lol! the Shafi and Hanbali will start bickering.
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- will live in misary (pay with their family lives and various form of calamity)
Is this their version of ORIGINAL SIN..lol I thought Allah was just. Wyy would he punish innocent "Family" for your decision? This Nomad contridicts the Quran and follows the idea of the bible's theory of the sins of the father will be avenged on the son.
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This LemonT character is my hero! Hmmmm, I wonder who he is hmm
http//www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?79213-Why-do-you-believe-in-hadith&p=681991&posted=1#post681991
I like his quote
"Even I, a fellow muslim, who think you are a complete jerk would never ever call you a kafir. It saddens me how you so casually throw around this word. It saddens me to hear that you are discriminating against another human being because they do not speak arabic, sad.You can sit in your boat while the rest of the muslims that actually recognise that believing in Allah is the first and foremost can sit in another. But don't worry, we will rescue you when your boat sinks. "
Indeed we shall rescue any sinking boats.... and not just the sunni's boat...
But when the sunnis try to sink other people's boat, we are in no hesitation to sink the sunni's boat and then rescue them afterwards.Salam / Peace
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rotfl
"Mufti saheb for exposing the troll.
EDIT What in the WORLD!!!! They were discussing 6 pages to attack sunniforum....!!!!! No wonder new IDs popped up. The MODs please clean up...!"
http//www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?79213-Why-do-you-believe-in-hadith/page25 Post 249 onwards
I lolled when he said "They were discussing 6 pages to attack sunniforum" Attack rotfl
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Lol, I've always wondered why Sunnis are almost always so dramatic. Reminds me of many times when Sunnis on Youtube keep repeatedly saying "these Quranists are attacking Islam"
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What attack, like we declared jihad on them? Well, I guess they were wrong when they said QA cannot agree on anything
rotfl
They always say the those who are Quran only, can't agree. They can agree either. They have a million different ways on how each school prays and everything else.
I like the thinking of following Only hadith that are in alignment with the Quran should be considered. Umm. Then why not just read the Quran that should cover it.
ahh, like a cat chasing its tail.
I would rather be called a Kafir by them then be considered a Muslim like them.
Also just a quick question. So if the Christian according to their posting is 100% Kafir. How is it permissible for a Muslim man to marry from the "people of the book" if they are Kafirs?? Would a muslim marry a kafir and trust his children with her?
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rotfl
They always say the those who are Quran only, can't agree. They can agree either. They have a million different ways on how each school prays and everything else.
I like the thinking of following Only hadith that are in alignment with the Quran should be considered. Umm. Then why not just read the Quran that should cover it.
ahh, like a cat chasing its tail.
I would rather be called a Kafir by them then be considered a Muslim like them.
Also just a quick question. So if the Christian according to their posting is 100% Kafir. How is it permissible for a Muslim man to marry from the "people of the book" if they are Kafirs?? Would a muslim marry a kafir and trust his children with her?
In a conversation with a good Sunni friend of mine, he said that Muslim men can only marry Christian or Jewish women if they have the intent of converting after marriage. After hearing this I thought to myself "wouldn't they then just convert to Islam before marriage?" ???
And what if they happen to remain Christian/Jewish after marriage? You divorce them? ???
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Also just a quick question. So if the Christian according to their posting is 100% Kafir. How is it permissible for a Muslim man to marry from the "people of the book" if they are Kafirs?? Would a muslim marry a kafir and trust his children with her?
Good question and good point
But what is a kafir? they seem to have a totally different opinion. When I read the Quran I only come to one meaning
Christians/jews, no they believe in Allah
Atheist, no there is no compulsion in religion
Rejectors of Allah eventhough they have seen the truth, no because in surah 9 we are told to kill the kafir/polytheist UNLESS we are being attacked physicallySo my in my mind a kafir/disbeliever is someone who will not let you believe in what you want or tries to kill you because of your belief.
Like Hitler, he was a kafir.....
Have I understood the whole kafir thing wrong?
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Good question and good point
But what is a kafir? they seem to have a totally different opinion. When I read the Quran I only come to one meaning
Christians/jews, no they believe in Allah
Atheist, no there is no compulsion in religion
Rejectors of Allah eventhough they have seen the truth, no because in surah 9 we are told to kill the kafir/polytheist UNLESS we are being attacked physicallySo my in my mind a kafir/disbeliever is someone who will not let you believe in what you want or tries to kill you because of your belief.
Like Hitler, he was a kafir.....
Have I understood the whole kafir thing wrong?
Emil, I always took the word to mean one who covers the truth. So for me it is people like Paul of Tarus, who KNEW Jesus (pbuh) did not say what he claimed to see in visions. He covered the truth on purpose for his own gains and desires. The early church had some Kafirs... Hell Bukari is in line with a Kafir, to me. He had to know he was smearing the name of the prophet. How could he possible think when collecting some of those hadith that they were correct? He covered what Allah ordained and instead made foolish nonsense for his own gain.. and alot of people fell for it.
So everyone grab your camel pee ice tea and let have an orgy. Just ridiculous.
Anyway I hope that helps with the whole Kafir thing. Anyone else can feel free to enlighten us
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Salam everyone,
Emil, maybe this article might help. Anyway sorry if i posted wrongly, kinda a newbie. P
Although within numerous Islamic circles, non Muslims are frequently labelled as ?Infidels? and the Arabic term ?Kafir? (pl ?Kuffar?) is used for them, the Qur?an reveals an entirely different picture as to the identity of bearers of this term.
The Actual MeaningNot only non Muslims, but rival sects issue Fatwas (edicts) of ?Takfeer? and declare each other as ?Kaafir? and outside the pale of Islam for one reason or another. But what is the literal and linguistic meaning of the term, that is often used to vilify opponents and evoke negative sentiments? In this article I will explore this as well as the Quranic usage of the terminology.
The Arabic word ?Kufr? (lit. rejection, concealment, covering up) is derived the triliteral root Ka-Fa-Ra which means ?he became a rejecter of, or a denier of?.
The term ?Kufr? or ?Rejection? in its various derivative forms in Qur?anic usage is in its generic sense, and wherever the word occurs, it does not imply or refer to ?Non Muslims?. E.g Prophet Abraham and his companions say in 604 that they have ?rejected? the belief of their persecutors (?Kafarna ? Bikum?). Similarly, in (2619) the Pharaoh, called Moses a ?Kaafir? i.e. a rejecter, as Moses had rejected the belief system of his.
So as Abraham?s followers who are believers say that they reject polytheism and the word ?Kafar? is used for that act of theirs and as Moses who is a believer and a Prophet had committed ?Kufr? of the tyranny of the Pharaoh, this demonstrates that ?Kafir?, ?Kufr? etc are not terms synonymous with ?Non Muslims?, or but are terms depicting specific acts and actions by human beings.
Believers in the Qur?an are ?Kaafirs? i.e. rejecters of ideologies opposing the Qur?an. Similarly those who uphold such ideologies, when they are faced with the Qur?anic message, and they consciously reject it, then they become ?Kaafirs? of the Qur?an. It is very common nowadays for some people to label all non Muslims as ?Kaafir?. Not only is this grammatically wrong, this view is not supported by the Qur?an itself.
What Qualifies One For ?Kufr?Somebody who has never heard about the Qur?anic message, is not conscious of its teachings is not a ?Kaafir?, but in Qur?anic terminology a ?Jaahil? (ignorant of the message) or a ?Ghaafil? (unaware of the message) person.
For to qualify for ?Kufr?, one needs to be clear about and be consciously aware of the message first. When the message has not even reached somebody, then he or she cannot be called a ?rejecter? or an ?acceptor? of that message. It is only when one has knowledge of the message ? that he or she qualifies for acceptance or rejection. The Qur?an repeatedly says that people ??reject the truth AFTER it was made clear to them?.? (c.f. 2109, 4725 etc)
When the Qur?an uses the term ?Kaafir? to those who reject the Qur?an itself, then it also qualifies their traits further that they do this, when the message is clear to them, and they don?t just stop at merely rejecting the message, BUT ALSO actively oppose people from it as well (c.f. 471), and if that is not enough, they also PERSECUTE those who uphold the message (335 , and cause them mental, physical as well as material injury (637-.
It is on the basis of this intolerant behavior and persecution that such are condemned. Cross referencing verses related to ?Kaafir?, ?Kufr? and analyzing the behavior pattern inherent in it makes this abundantly clear and clears the misconception that the Qur?an is intolerant towards or condemns people of all faiths. In the light of this, a young boy in a remote dwelling who has never heard of the Quran and is innocently observing his ancestral faith is neither the ?Kaafir? that the Quran speaks of nor the target of its reprimands, until or unless he consciously rejects the message after its reception and engages in its opposition and persecution of believers.
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Salaam Jeffry and thank you so much for that article.
When the Qur?an uses the term ?Kaafir? to those who reject the Qur?an itself, then it also qualifies their traits further that they do this, when the message is clear to them, and they don?t just stop at merely rejecting the message, BUT ALSO actively oppose people from it as well (c.f. 471), and if that is not enough, they also PERSECUTE those who uphold the message (335 , and cause them mental, physical as well as material injury (637-.
I haven't checked the verses yet, but as far as I know this paragraph kinda sums it up. Who is the author?