Does anyone know where I can find a Suni?

Jafar

This LemonT character is my hero! Hmmmm, I wonder who he is hmm

http//www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?79213-Why-do-you-believe-in-hadith&p=681991&posted=1#post681991

I like his quote
"Even I, a fellow muslim, who think you are a complete jerk would never ever call you a kafir. It saddens me how you so casually throw around this word. It saddens me to hear that you are discriminating against another human being because they do not speak arabic, sad.

You can sit in your boat while the rest of the muslims that actually recognise that believing in Allah is the first and foremost can sit in another. But don't worry, we will rescue you when your boat sinks. "

Indeed we shall rescue any sinking boats.... and not just the sunni's boat...
But when the sunnis try to sink other people's boat, we are in no hesitation to sink the sunni's boat and then rescue them afterwards.

Salam / Peace

Pakistani_Assassin

rotfl

"Mufti saheb for exposing the troll.

EDIT What in the WORLD!!!! They were discussing 6 pages to attack sunniforum....!!!!! No wonder new IDs popped up. The MODs please clean up...!"

http//www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?79213-Why-do-you-believe-in-hadith/page25 Post 249 onwards

I lolled when he said "They were discussing 6 pages to attack sunniforum" Attack rotfl

Emil

What attack, like we declared jihad on them? Well, I guess they were wrong when they said QA cannot agree on anything

Pakistani_Assassin

Lol, I've always wondered why Sunnis are almost always so dramatic. Reminds me of many times when Sunnis on Youtube keep repeatedly saying "these Quranists are attacking Islam"

Indelwyn

What attack, like we declared jihad on them? Well, I guess they were wrong when they said QA cannot agree on anything

rotfl

They always say the those who are Quran only, can't agree. They can agree either. They have a million different ways on how each school prays and everything else.

I like the thinking of following Only hadith that are in alignment with the Quran should be considered. Umm. Then why not just read the Quran that should cover it.

ahh, like a cat chasing its tail.

I would rather be called a Kafir by them then be considered a Muslim like them.

Also just a quick question. So if the Christian according to their posting is 100% Kafir. How is it permissible for a Muslim man to marry from the "people of the book" if they are Kafirs?? Would a muslim marry a kafir and trust his children with her?

Pakistani_Assassin

rotfl

They always say the those who are Quran only, can't agree. They can agree either. They have a million different ways on how each school prays and everything else.

I like the thinking of following Only hadith that are in alignment with the Quran should be considered. Umm. Then why not just read the Quran that should cover it.

ahh, like a cat chasing its tail.

I would rather be called a Kafir by them then be considered a Muslim like them.

Also just a quick question. So if the Christian according to their posting is 100% Kafir. How is it permissible for a Muslim man to marry from the "people of the book" if they are Kafirs?? Would a muslim marry a kafir and trust his children with her?

In a conversation with a good Sunni friend of mine, he said that Muslim men can only marry Christian or Jewish women if they have the intent of converting after marriage. After hearing this I thought to myself "wouldn't they then just convert to Islam before marriage?" ???

And what if they happen to remain Christian/Jewish after marriage? You divorce them? ???

Emil

Also just a quick question. So if the Christian according to their posting is 100% Kafir. How is it permissible for a Muslim man to marry from the "people of the book" if they are Kafirs?? Would a muslim marry a kafir and trust his children with her?

Good question and good point

But what is a kafir? they seem to have a totally different opinion. When I read the Quran I only come to one meaning

Christians/jews, no they believe in Allah
Atheist, no there is no compulsion in religion
Rejectors of Allah eventhough they have seen the truth, no because in surah 9 we are told to kill the kafir/polytheist UNLESS we are being attacked physically

So my in my mind a kafir/disbeliever is someone who will not let you believe in what you want or tries to kill you because of your belief.

Like Hitler, he was a kafir.....

Have I understood the whole kafir thing wrong?

SNS

I loled at your first paragraph Indelwyn...that's the same answer I get hypno

Indelwyn

Good question and good point

But what is a kafir? they seem to have a totally different opinion. When I read the Quran I only come to one meaning

Christians/jews, no they believe in Allah
Atheist, no there is no compulsion in religion
Rejectors of Allah eventhough they have seen the truth, no because in surah 9 we are told to kill the kafir/polytheist UNLESS we are being attacked physically

So my in my mind a kafir/disbeliever is someone who will not let you believe in what you want or tries to kill you because of your belief.

Like Hitler, he was a kafir.....

Have I understood the whole kafir thing wrong?

Emil, I always took the word to mean one who covers the truth. So for me it is people like Paul of Tarus, who KNEW Jesus (pbuh) did not say what he claimed to see in visions. He covered the truth on purpose for his own gains and desires. The early church had some Kafirs... Hell Bukari is in line with a Kafir, to me. He had to know he was smearing the name of the prophet. How could he possible think when collecting some of those hadith that they were correct? He covered what Allah ordained and instead made foolish nonsense for his own gain.. and alot of people fell for it.

So everyone grab your camel pee ice tea and let have an orgy. Just ridiculous.

Anyway I hope that helps with the whole Kafir thing. Anyone else can feel free to enlighten us

jeffry

Salam everyone,

Emil, maybe this article might help. Anyway sorry if i posted wrongly, kinda a newbie. P

Although within numerous Islamic circles, non Muslims are frequently labelled as ?Infidels? and the Arabic term ?Kafir? (pl ?Kuffar?) is used for them, the Qur?an reveals an entirely different picture as to the identity of bearers of this term.
The Actual Meaning

Not only non Muslims, but rival sects issue Fatwas (edicts) of ?Takfeer? and declare each other as ?Kaafir? and outside the pale of Islam for one reason or another. But what is the literal and linguistic meaning of the term, that is often used to vilify opponents and evoke negative sentiments? In this article I will explore this as well as the Quranic usage of the terminology.

The Arabic word ?Kufr? (lit. rejection, concealment, covering up) is derived the triliteral root Ka-Fa-Ra which means ?he became a rejecter of, or a denier of?.

The term ?Kufr? or ?Rejection? in its various derivative forms in Qur?anic usage is in its generic sense, and wherever the word occurs, it does not imply or refer to ?Non Muslims?. E.g Prophet Abraham and his companions say in 604 that they have ?rejected? the belief of their persecutors (?Kafarna ? Bikum?). Similarly, in (2619) the Pharaoh, called Moses a ?Kaafir? i.e. a rejecter, as Moses had rejected the belief system of his.

So as Abraham?s followers who are believers say that they reject polytheism and the word ?Kafar? is used for that act of theirs and as Moses who is a believer and a Prophet had committed ?Kufr? of the tyranny of the Pharaoh, this demonstrates that ?Kafir?, ?Kufr? etc are not terms synonymous with ?Non Muslims?, or but are terms depicting specific acts and actions by human beings.

Believers in the Qur?an are ?Kaafirs? i.e. rejecters of ideologies opposing the Qur?an. Similarly those who uphold such ideologies, when they are faced with the Qur?anic message, and they consciously reject it, then they become ?Kaafirs? of the Qur?an. It is very common nowadays for some people to label all non Muslims as ?Kaafir?. Not only is this grammatically wrong, this view is not supported by the Qur?an itself.
What Qualifies One For ?Kufr?

Somebody who has never heard about the Qur?anic message, is not conscious of its teachings is not a ?Kaafir?, but in Qur?anic terminology a ?Jaahil? (ignorant of the message) or a ?Ghaafil? (unaware of the message) person.

For to qualify for ?Kufr?, one needs to be clear about and be consciously aware of the message first. When the message has not even reached somebody, then he or she cannot be called a ?rejecter? or an ?acceptor? of that message. It is only when one has knowledge of the message ? that he or she qualifies for acceptance or rejection. The Qur?an repeatedly says that people ??reject the truth AFTER it was made clear to them?.? (c.f. 2109, 4725 etc)

When the Qur?an uses the term ?Kaafir? to those who reject the Qur?an itself, then it also qualifies their traits further that they do this, when the message is clear to them, and they don?t just stop at merely rejecting the message, BUT ALSO actively oppose people from it as well (c.f. 471), and if that is not enough, they also PERSECUTE those who uphold the message (335 , and cause them mental, physical as well as material injury (637-.

It is on the basis of this intolerant behavior and persecution that such are condemned. Cross referencing verses related to ?Kaafir?, ?Kufr? and analyzing the behavior pattern inherent in it makes this abundantly clear and clears the misconception that the Qur?an is intolerant towards or condemns people of all faiths. In the light of this, a young boy in a remote dwelling who has never heard of the Quran and is innocently observing his ancestral faith is neither the ?Kaafir? that the Quran speaks of nor the target of its reprimands, until or unless he consciously rejects the message after its reception and engages in its opposition and persecution of believers.

Emil

Salaam Jeffry and thank you so much for that article.

When the Qur?an uses the term ?Kaafir? to those who reject the Qur?an itself, then it also qualifies their traits further that they do this, when the message is clear to them, and they don?t just stop at merely rejecting the message, BUT ALSO actively oppose people from it as well (c.f. 471), and if that is not enough, they also PERSECUTE those who uphold the message (335 , and cause them mental, physical as well as material injury (637-.

I haven't checked the verses yet, but as far as I know this paragraph kinda sums it up. Who is the author?

Emil

Emil, I always took the word to mean one who covers the truth. So for me it is people like Paul of Tarus, who KNEW Jesus (pbuh) did not say what he claimed to see in visions. He covered the truth on purpose for his own gains and desires. The early church had some Kafirs... Hell Bukari is in line with a Kafir, to me. He had to know he was smearing the name of the prophet. How could he possible think when collecting some of those hadith that they were correct? He covered what Allah ordained and instead made foolish nonsense for his own gain.. and alot of people fell for it.

So everyone grab your camel pee ice tea and let have an orgy. Just ridiculous.

Anyway I hope that helps with the whole Kafir thing. Anyone else can feel free to enlighten us )

Salaam dear sister

I agree with you, however I am a bit uncomfortable having to kill them just because they spread corrupt messages. A midevil priest who burns people because they are witches is one thing, spreading lies and rumours another. What do you think sis?

jeffry

Salam everyone,

Emil - The Authority of the Quran by Kashif Ahmed Shehzada.

jeffry

Emil,
Think i gave u the wrong info. this shud be the correct one
http//kashifshahzada.com/2011/05/14/who-is-a-kaafir/

Indelwyn

Wow. This is the third time this book has been brought up to me, this week. I am gonna have to read it. It sounds interesting.

Jeffry, I heard this book has never been disputed by the scholars? Do you know anything about that?

Emil,
I agree with you, brother! You can't just kill someone for lies and rumors.. why.. God gave us a brain to seek the truth. I am firm in the belief, if you are sincere in your desire to find the truth, Allah will never desert you. It is all part of the test seeking the truth from lies.

May Allah guide us all!

Jafar

In a conversation with a good Sunni friend of mine, he said that Muslim men can only marry Christian or Jewish women if they have the intent of converting after marriage. After hearing this I thought to myself "wouldn't they then just convert to Islam before marriage?" ???

And what if they happen to remain Christian/Jewish after marriage? You divorce them? ???

It's the same thing... the catholics/orthodox/judaist priest will also said the same..

It's all about those 'sectarians' trying to 'protect their turf'.. or in 'evangelist' terminology; 'protecting ther flock of sheep'..
As 'less sheep' equal 'less power' and 'less power' equal 'less income'.

Islam is not a sect or religion.. there are moslems among catholics/orthodox/judaist etc....

Converting to islam is an absurdity... and what they meant by 'converting to Islam' is actually 'converting to suniism'.
They apply the same thing for shiite / ahmadis women too, they need to 'convert' to 'the religion of truth' which is 'sunniism'. The same thing also happening between catholics and orthodox.... (or any other sectarian groups)

Salam / Peace

Jafar

The term ?Kufr? or ?Rejection? in its various derivative forms in Qur?anic usage is in its generic sense, and wherever the word occurs, it does not imply or refer to ?Non Muslims?. E.g Prophet Abraham and his companions say in 604 that they have ?rejected? the belief of their persecutors (?Kafarna ? Bikum?). Similarly, in (2619) the Pharaoh, called Moses a ?Kaafir? i.e. a rejecter, as Moses had rejected the belief system of his.

100% fully agree..
That's why I'm happy and thankful to be called a 'kuffr' by sunnis.. because I AM..

Salam / Peace

Pakistani_Assassin

It's the same thing... the catholics/orthodox/judaist priest will also said the same..

It's all about those 'sectarians' trying to 'protect their turf'.. or in 'evangelist' terminology; 'protecting ther flock of sheep'..
As 'less sheep' equal 'less power' and 'less power' equal 'less income'.

Islam is not a sect or religion.. there are moslems among catholics/orthodox/judaist etc....

Converting to islam is an absurdity... and what they meant by 'converting to Islam' is actually 'converting to suniism'.
They apply the same thing for shiite / ahmadis women too, they need to 'convert' to 'the religion of truth' which is 'sunniism'. The same thing also happening between catholics and orthodox.... (or any other sectarian groups)

Salam / Peace

Jafar, I completely agree with you. Islam is serving Allah by doing good deeds on this Earth. You can be a Sunni muslim, Shia muslim, Christian muslim, Jewish muslim, atheist muslim...you get my drift.

This is why the true Islam is beautiful. As is the Quran.

But I have a question - what about polytheists (i.e Hindus, Animists), what about them. Of course I have the same opinion for them too but what is your opinion?

Jafar

But I have a question - what about polytheists (i.e Hindus, Animists), what about them. Of course I have the same opinion for them too but what is your opinion?

A very good and interesting question, let's start with the foundational principles

We are not in authority / position to judge. As thus I will always always try to avoid condemning / labeling any group as 'resident of hell'.
We are told of not to debate on rites/commandments or other petty stuff our 'job' is to invite people to their Rabb.
I want to exclude 'animist' for this discussion as it is not clear on what you do mean by 'animist' in this case. Again 'animist' is a common stereo-typing regarding some cultures which outsider doesn't understand in entirely.
Hinduism is a complex 'thing', it's more of a 'cultural group' rather than a sect. There are hundred of sects within Hinduism cultural group, and each differs greatly against each others. As thus 'hinduism' cannot be analyzed as 'hinduism' yet we need to dive down to each individual sects.

But for the sake of discussion let's assume something as popularly known from 'common non-hindus' people (such as me) regarding what hinduism is.

They have a 'figure' of 'something which is Absolute', they named It as Brahman. From my perspective this is 'the one true God' known as YHVH by the israelites, Allah by the Arabs and "The Father" by the christians.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman
As thus it is wise to invite them to "Brahman" and tell them that they can reach "Brahman" directly without any help from any intermediaries such as priest, deities, statues and so on.
They have conception of "Deva" and commonly mis-translated as "gods". Deva in sanskrit actually mean "light/shining beings". Krishna is one of the most popular "Deva". Some of them believe that this "Deva" is the 'incarnation' of the 'supreme absolute' (Brahman) or 'avatar' of the 'supreme Absolute' (Brahman). In many ways I see the similarity between "Deva" conception in Hinduism with "Malaikat" (Angel) conception within semitic culture. Nevertheless the act of 'praying','praising' (Puja) the "deva" is useless.. as the 'supreme absolute' can be reached directly without their intermediaries.
Sidharta Gautama also think in the same manner.. that's why he think "puja" is useless and advising his follower on meditation instead to 'reach' the 'supreme Absolute'.
They strongly believe in a law of 'karma' which I think it is very true and known in the west as 'golden rule'. This is one of the plus point I see within hinduism. They see that 'belief' doesn't matter yet 'action' does.. which again I strongly subscribe.
They strongly believe in 'reincarnation', which I have no comment now..
Most importantly there are many good hindus, they are compassionate, honest, helpful etc.. and I consider them as my 'brothers and sisters'.

That's my opinion.. at the moment..
Feel free to comment..

Salam / Peace / Om Santi Santi Om

Tyler_Durden

Hey guys,

sorry to butt in here. I know most of you have probably stopped checking the SF thread, however the discussion is still ongoing haa. I am at uni at the moment so don't have too much time to answer the good and valid questions that they are now posting. Just a heads up, if you do check the thread, obviously feel free to post there or post here and I will try and make that point. Here is the thread again. (I don't know but I feel like we have got to a point in the discussion where both sides are listening to each other. So it would be good if you guys, because you are way more knowledgable than me, to pop in some advice. No worries if you can't!!!)

Here's the thread again.

http//www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?79213-Why-do-you-believe-in-hadith

PS, here is something I saw on the forum http//www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?79157-Women-working-problem-of-divorce-polygamy-and-some-other-issues/page28

see post 276. I just think that such rules against women are so archaic and patriarchal and outdated. I just felt so sorry for strict sunni women when I read this - I don't mean that in a patronising way - just in a logical one. How can somebody saying such things about your gender not bring you down?

Again, sorry for butting in.

PS Indelwyn, do you know the quote for that hadith you mentioned. Could be useful. Thaanks

Cheers,