The Search for Muhammad has Ended
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Thus it is concievable in concept that David & solomon could have set up a place near the original route of the israelites comming out of Egypt. Also it is concievable to say that their kingdom reached as far north as palestine coast, and also as far south as southern arabia near sheba
My friend...There is no mention whatsoever of such a kingdom in all of history. To claim that Solomon's kingdom stretched from Palestine in the North, all the way to the heart of Yemen in the south is downright ridiculous. It is NOT conceivable!.
Your insisting that the Exodus was from Egypt is clouding your mind and making you reach absurd conclusions.
Let's go on, shall we?
Excerpts From the Diary of Fadhel Al-Rubaye'e
"....Did Al-Hamadani really describe, in his book "Sifat Jazeerat? ul-Arab" ("The Description of Arabia", the same land that the Torah described? This question, which had never before ? to my knowledge ? been asked by anyone, kept on occurring to me as I repeatedly borrowed the book from the library of Leiden University, in the Netherlands. Could I be mistaken? Is that possible? Or is there something that I am misunderstanding perhaps? As I flipped through the pages of Al-Hamadani?s book, following his footsteps in the Heights of Asir and Yemen, and stopping in the same places he had stopped at, I found myself, to my astonishment, looking at the same names of tribes, warriors, prophets, valleys, mountains, mentioned in the Torah, to the letter!
At first, and despite this, there was always some doubt, as I thought to myself ?It can?t be! Something must be wrong?. Until one day, I found myself, as if by pure fate, and while I was on vacation in Iraq, reading a book written by a very well-known Syrian scholar, Dr. Abdulrahman al-Shahabandar (who has no relation whatsoever to Hamadani, not in time nor in place), titled ?Al ? Maqalat? ("The Articles". My eyes fell on an article he wrote back in 1936, in which he commented about a book written by a Syrian explorer, Nazeeh Mou?ayyad Al-Azhm, who had visited Yemen in the year 1916. Al-Azhm?s book was called ?A Trip to Happy Arabia?. One passage in Shahabandar?s article nearly caused me to leap from my couch. In his comment on the book, he wrote the following
?And the Great Rabbi of the Jews in Sana?a, whose name was Yehia Ishaq, told him that the Jews once had a great kingdom in Yemen, somewhere between Sana?a and Najran. And that this kingdom was established by Solomon, son of David?
At this point, I was overtaken with curiosity, and later on, decided to look for this book written by Al-Azhm, until, after some agonizing effort, I was finally able to find a copy of it. And herein, I report to you exactly what he wrote in his book (page 141,142 ? second issue, London, 1985), about his visit to Yemen in 1916
?In the famous Jewish District of Old Sana?a, I met with several of the great Jewish authorities, and asked them many questions about the origins of the Yemeni Jews, their ways, their comings and goings. And there I was told, by the Grand Rabbi named Yehia Ishaq, who hosted me in his home, that the Jews of Yemen once had a great kingdom, and an extravagant city somewhere East of Sana?a, which was built by Solomon, son of David?. When I asked him if it is possible that it was in Najran, he said ?I can?t be certain if it included Najran, but I have no doubt that it was East of Sana?a?.
And it was here then that I started asking myself ?Why did the Jews of Yemen believe ? and still do ? that the land of the Torah was in Yemen, somewhere between Sana?a and Najran? Why are the Jews of Yemen the most religious and conservative of all Jews, yet at the same time, harbor a passionate hatred for Israel and Zionism? Why have the Jews of Yemen, who are among the only real Semitic Jews in the world today, always declared their refusal to emigrate to Palestine, and decided to stick to their land and heritage, demanding that the Yemeni government take full responsibility for protecting them from the discrimination they have long suffered at the hands of the Yemeni Muslims, while the other Jews of the world showed not the slightest hesitance to heed the call of the Zionist movement, and relocate to Palestine?
These questions peeked my curiosity and my interest again, as I read Kamal Salibi?s book ?The Torah Came from Arabia?, which was published in 1985. To give credit where credit is due, Salibi?s book - It must be said ? was a truly pioneering piece of work that helped answer some truly puzzling questions about the geography of the Biblical events, and the fact that they did not seem to fit the geography of Palestine, no matter how much we tried to twist or interpret the events to make them fit. However, Salibi?s book is not the kind of work any laymen can just pick up and read. It was written by a linguistics expert, for other linguistic experts, and was not meant for the general public.
In this context, I remembered a conversation that I once had with a good friend of mine, the Lebanese writer and brilliant critic Imad Al-Abdullah, whom I met back in 1994 during a short visit to Beirut, about ancient Arabic poetry. Imad had written a very interesting article which he later published in a prestigious cultural magazine, proving that what we had always called ?crying at the ruins? was beyond simply a poetic tradition. It was, in fact, and honest and heartfelt expression from the poets, which demonstrated a kind of nostalgia for a glorious and prosperous past long gone, and for civilizations now dust. So I found myself once again, returning to the poetry of the pre-Islamic era, but this time, keeping in mind what my friend Imad had told me. And lo and behold! I found the surprise of my lifetime waiting for me for there, buried in those ancient verses, I found, once again, the description of the famous mountains and valleys of Yemen and Asir, matching, word for word, their description in the passages of the Torah, and in Hamadani?s book!
It is truly astonishing ? astonishing and sad at the same time ? that the Arabs have had, for over a thousand years, an accurate, and authentic historical document in Hamadani?s book, which described in detail, the geography of their own past, right under their noses, without even being aware of it; while they continued to believe the lies, the illusions, the manipulations, and the forgeries claiming that the events of the Torah had taken place in Palestine?
? And I didn?t stop there. In the year 2002, after having reached my ultimate and unquestionable conviction that the events of the Old Testament never took place in Palestine, and that someone had messed with our history and turned it upside down without us being aware of it, I went to Yemen, and consulted with two of the most renowned and prestigious academics in the field of history and knowledge, Professor Hussain Abdullah al-Omari and Doctor Youssef Nasser Abdullah ? both graduates of Sorbonne University in Paris, France - concerning what I thought was my ?discovery?. And their shocking answer was simply put
?What you are saying is elementary to us??
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Old.jpg
Yemeni Jewish Elders They know the truth that has been hidden from all other Jews.
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Youth.jpg
Yemeni Jewish Youth Hodling on to their identity and roots.
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Child.jpg
Yemeni Jewish Children Their future is uncertain.
The Assyrians never marched on Palestine. Nor did they vie with the Egyptians for control of its land. Solomon?s ships never sailed the Mediterranean, and never landed at the ports of Tyre, Lebanon. Furthermore, King David never fought against the Palestinians. And while the Zionists claim that the so-called ?First Temple of God? was built in Palestine, the explosive truth which will soon be made evident to you, brothers and sisters, as we set sail through the pages of Al-Hamadani?s book, is that the original Temple was never in Palestine, but in the Heights of Himyar, the mountains of Yemen. And the structure that was destroyed by the Roman Emperor Titus, when he sacked Jerusalem in the year 70 A.D, was NOT Solomon?s Temple.
We will set sail together, on a journey to the land of Asir and Yemen, in the South Western reaches of Arabia, where we will uncover the curtain on the greatest act of historical and geographical forgery that humanity has ever known; an act whose goal was three-fold
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First To ruin the reputation of Arabia?s ancient history, and keep a lid on the events that took place there.
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Second To hide the truth concerning the true origins of Judaism, in order to falsely ascribe ?purity? to their alleged ?race? (as if ?Judaism? was ever a RACE!!)
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Third To hijack Palestine, and plant an illegal, colonial and imperial entity in the heart of the Arab Nation, strategically located to form a divide between its Asian and African wings, in such a way so as to keep the entire region in turmoil and instability, while placing puppet dictators on the thrones of Arab countries, to keep this Nation from ever unifying into one, major and dominant force.
I will present to you staggering evidence, which will leave no room for any suspicion and doubt, that the events and the stories told in the Old Testament took place in the lands of Asir and Yemen, and overlooking the Red Sea coast. I will prove that the original writers of the Torah were monotheistic, nomadic tribes of ancient Arabia, who fought their wars and built their first kingdom in South West Arabia, not in Palestine. I will show you how the European and orientalist interpretation of the Torah projected the geography of these events onto the land of Palestine, and how the misguided Muslims have fallen into the trap of illusion and deception, by falsely attributing ?holiness? to Palestine, and the city of ?Al-Quds? in particular, by claiming that Muhamad (P) was taken there on the back of a winged horse, on his famous ?Night Journey?, and from which he then rose to Heaven to meet Allah face to face.
The great truth that has been hidden all these years is that there was never a blessed or holy spot of land on this Earth other than the mountains and valleys of South West Arabia. This forgotten land, whose call has ever been ignored, was the origin of all Semitic migrations, the cradle of the oldest civilization, and the home place of all the prophets whom are mentioned in the Quran. This land was the birthplace of Judaism, as well as the Nasarene Creed (Al- Nasraniyya), from which Paul later derived Christianity. (This is why Paul says clearly, in his Letters, that he went to ARABIA, and spent 3 years there. And it was not until AFTER his return from ARABIA, that he began to preach Christianity in Jerusalem. Why do you think that is so? What did he do in Arabia? And what did he bring with him from there? This is the question that has baffled Christians for ages untold. And I will give you the answer to that as well).
Together, we will put the pieces of this age-old puzzle together, then step back and look at the big picture, to see what the evil hands of corruption and deception have done to our history.
We will walk in the footsteps of Al- Hamadani (893 ? 945 A.D), the great Arab geographer, historian, astronomer and poet, who in turn, walked in the same footsteps as the ancient Yemeni prophet Yeshua, recording the same place names, the same mountains, the same valleys, the same river beds, the same tribes, the same heroes that were mentioned in the Old Testament. We will show you that no human being with an ounce of intelligence or any semblance of common sense can claim that the matching names are nothing but pure coincidence. This is not a case of 2, 3, or 10 matches. We are talking about over 200 matches, TO THE LETTER. These are the SAME places that are mentioned in the Torah, in the ancient Arabic poetry, and in Hamadani?s precious book ?Description of Arabia? (Hereafter denoted as DoA).
But first, there is this little matter concerning what is known as the ?Hebrew? language, that needs to resolved once and for all, if we are to have a meaningful discussion?
In the meantime, please check out these two breathtaking videos
The first from the documentary show "Ushuaia" describing the architecture of Yemen, and the famous trade routes of Arabia. It's called "Perfumes of Happy Arabia" (unfortunately, it's in French).
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1M6lmBEeP4&feature=related
The Second "Hadaramawt Land of Dreams" (This is the same "Hazaramaveth" which appears in the Torah).
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW7GVS-Jx0M&feature=related
Enjoy...
To Be Continued?
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PAZUZU ... Thanks for sharing and explaining all this information, i just made my register to tell u please keep going... i NEED to hear the rest
Dear NOMAD... Thank you for your enthusiasm..
Please don't hesitate to join in the discussion
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My friend...There is no mention whatsoever of such a kingdom in all of history. To claim that Solomon's kingdom stretched from Palestine in the North, all the way to the heart of Yemen in the south is downright ridiculous. It is NOT conceivable!.
Your insisting that the Exodus was from Egypt is clouding your mind and making you reach absurd conclusions.
Peace Pazuzu peace
I do not mean to enrage you, iwould be simply trying to understand.
I am sory that my thoughts are ridiculous to you, but to tell you the truth, i am notv a historian. As i stated before, Solomon prayed to God Almighty to give him a kingship that NO ONE will acquire after him. Thus by that conclusion, i stated that it is concievable that solomon's might have stretched as far north as palestine & as far south as yemen. This can be supported by the fact that Queen sheeba in the Quran submited to God, (i.e became muslim), with solomon, this can mean that her kingdom was acquired by solomon (if you note solomon wanted to invade/overtake them in the Quran).
Please excuse us and please use lenient language because we have not come to the same conclusions as you have laugh
~ Peace peace~Blessed is his Most Blessed, Supreme, Serene, High Majesty, YHWH; The Everlasting, Merciful Lord & king of All ~
~ Hallel YAH! ~
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History tends to be written by those who have hung heroes, and the corrupt. So I am definitely open to PAZUZU's research. We shouldnt turn a blind eye to it. In the end the truth can never be overshadowed by any falsehood.Allahs light will always shine. So granted you are being a little firm Pazuzu lol, but I welcome the theory. I however will have to do my own research to verify it. And since Quran never specifically says where exodus, or certain things literally took place verbatum, then the research is open really. Whatever sounds more reasonable and logical. if its verbatum truth that Yemen is this place you mention, then Allah if he so wills will bring that into light. In the end Allah knows best. so long as we are sincere, give thanks, and praise him constantly. Salams to everyone
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It is truly astonishing ? astonishing and sad at the same time ?
The Assyrians never marched on Palestine. Nor did they vie with the Egyptians for control of its land.
Peace Pazuzu,
That's your evidence your conversations, a book by Al- Hamadani (893 ? 945 CE), and pictures of Jews in Yemen?
Why not read what Assyrians actually wrote on their prisms around 700 BCE?
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Taylor_Prism-3.jpg/581px-Taylor_Prism-3.jpg
http//www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/meso/sennprism3.html
Sennacherib Prism Column 3
1they offered battle. With the aid of Aššur, 2my lord, I fought with them and 3brought about their defeat. The Egyptian charioteers and princes, 4together with the Ethiopian king's charioteers, 5my hands captured alive in the midst of the battle. 6Eltekeh and Timnah 7I besieged, I captured, and I took away their spoil.
8I approached Ekron and slew the governors and nobles 9who had rebelled, and 10 hung their bodies on stakes around the city. The inhabitants 11who rebelled and treated (Assyria) lightly I counted as spoil. 12The rest of them, who were not guilty of rebellion 13and contempt, for whom there was no punishment, 14I declared their pardon. Padi, their king, 15I brought out to Jerusalem, 16set him on the royal throne over them, and 17imposed upon him my royal tribute.
18As for Hezekiah the Judahite, 19 who did not submit to my yoke forty-six of his strong, walled cities, as well as 20the small towns in their area, 21 which were without number, by levelling with battering-rams 22and by bringing up seige-engines, and by attacking and storming on foot, 23by mines, tunnels, and breeches, I besieged and took them. 24 200,150 people, great and small, male and female, 25horses, mules, asses, camels, 26cattle and sheep without number, I brought away from them 27and counted as spoil. (Hezekiah) himself, like a caged bird 28I shut up in Jerusalem, his royal city. 29I threw up earthworks against him? 30the one coming out of the city-gate, I turned back to his misery. 31His cities, which I had despoiled, I cut off from his land, and 32to Mitinti, king of Ashdod, 33Padi, king of Ekron, and Silli-b?l, 34king of Gaza, I gave (them). And thus I diminished his land. 35I added to the former tribute, 36and I lad upon him the surrender of their land and imposts?gifts for my majesty. 37As for Hezekiah, 38the terrifying splendor of my majesty overcame him, and 39the Arabs and his mercenary troops which he had brought in to strengthen 40Jerusalem, his royal city, 41deserted him. In addition to the thirty talents of gold and 42eight hundred talents of silver, gems, antimony, 43jewels, large carnelians, ivory-inlaid couches, 44ivory-inlaid chairs, elephant hides, elephant tusks, 45ebony, boxwood, all kinds of valuable treasures, 46as well as his daughters, his harem, his male and female 47musicians, which he had brought after me 48to Nineveh, my royal city. To pay tribute 49and to accept servitude, he dispatched his messengers.History tends to be written by those who have hung heroes, and the corrupt.
Tungjatjeta Albo -- yes most definitely!
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Tung Shqipe si je?
there are so many theories for where Muhammad actually came from lol. I like to say Allah knows best, in the end righteousness is not turning your faces east or west, but in our actions, our piety and deeds. certain things we may never clearly know, due to the insurmountable amount of corruption of history, from all sides. This is why Allah says "the later generations are in dispute" and "Allah will show them wherein they disputed, and the truth of the matter". So in the end people can dispute until the cows come home, all presenting their evidence, granted we shouldnt turn a blind eye, and of course examine the evidence, and clearly see which has stronger supporting evidence. But even then Allah knows best.
salams
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@ Noon dhe plume...
So what's your point? These prisms prove that the Assyrians sacked JERUSALEM. OF course they did. I never claimed otherwise.
The idea you people can't seem to understand is that the JERUSALEM they sacked was "UR-SALEM", an ancient mountain city in YEMEN, which was near a mountain called Zion. IF you go to Yemen now, and ask any Yemeni in the streets of Sana'a where "Jabal Sayyoun" is, he will direct you to it.
The Jeruslalem of Palestine (which was named after its original YEMENI name by the Jews who migrated there AFTER the Exiles) did not even exist prior to 600 BC. Mr Noon dhe plume wants to defy the archeological evidence that the "ISRAELIS" THEMSELVES have unearthed from Palestine, proving that the JERUSALEM of Plaestine was no more than an insignificant village before 600 BC. Mr Noon thinks he is more qualified in this subject than the archeologists themselves.
The Assyrians sacked ARABIA. Not Palestine.
And the murals which were in the Baghdad Museum, containing illustrations describing the captivity, clearly showed the Assyrians, whith their famous "curly hair helmets" dragging BEDOUINS wearing a desert dress, their hands and feet cuffed and tied with chains, along with CAMELS. there are CAMELS depicted in those murals. This is why many Europeans who visited the museum and looked at thoe murals could never figure out why there were camels.
Why not read what Assyrians actually wrote on their prisms around 700 BCE?
Why don;t YOU READ what i wrote in the begining of this thread?? There was no JERUSALEM in Palestine in 700 BCE. And the captives shown in the murals and illustartions in the Baghdad Museum (which the "civilized" American troops STOLE when they looted city) were ARABIAN tribes.
Does the word "Palestine" appear anywhere in those cylinders, Mr. Noon?
Peace.
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Tung Shqipe si je?
Falem shume mire; agree we need to check all history triangulate the data without bias.
@ Noon dhe plume...
So what's your point? These prisms prove that the Assyrians sacked JERUSALEM. OF course they did. I never claimed otherwise.
The idea you people can't seem to understand is that the JERUSALEM they sacked was "UR-SALEM", an ancient mountain city in YEMEN, which was near a mountain called Zion. IF you go to Yemen now, and ask any Yemeni in the streets of Sana'a where "Jabal Sayyoun" is, he will direct you to it.
The Jeruslalem of Palestine (which was named after its original YEMENI name by the Jews who migrated there AFTER the Exiles) did not even exist prior to 600 BC. Mr Noon dhe plume wants to defy the archeological evidence that the "ISRAELIS" THEMSELVES have unearthed from Palestine, proving that the JERUSALEM of Plaestine was no more than an insignificant village before 600 BC. Mr Noon thinks he is more qualified in this subject than the archeologists themselves.
The Assyrians sacked ARABIA. Not Palestine.
And the murals which were in the Baghdad Museum, containing illustrations describing the captivity, clearly showed the Assyrians, whith their famous "curly hair helmets" dragging BEDOUINS wearing a desert dress, their hands and feet cuffed and tied with chains, along with CAMELS. there are CAMELS depicted in those murals. This is why many Europeans who visited the museum and looked at thoe murals could never figure out why there were camels.
How many people did you expect to find hundred's of thousands or millions?
How many people & cities in Yemen on top that hill whatever circa 700 BCE?I'll post this again and highlight the Arabs who joined the fight and CAMELS.
18 As for Hezekiah the Judahite, 19 who did not submit to my yoke forty-six of his strong, walled cities, as well as 20 the small towns in their area, 21 which were without number, by levelling with battering-rams 22 and by bringing up seige-engines, and by attacking and storming on foot, 23 by mines, tunnels, and breeches, I besieged and took them. 24 200,150 people, great and small, male and female, 25 horses, mules, asses, camels, 26 cattle and sheep without number, I brought away from them 27 and counted as spoil. (Hezekiah) himself, like a caged bird 28 I shut up in Jerusalem, his royal city. 29 I threw up earthworks against him? 30 the one coming out of the city-gate, I turned back to his misery. 31 His cities, which I had despoiled, I cut off from his land, and 32 to Mitinti, king of Ashdod, 33 Padi, king of Ekron, and Silli-b?l, 34 king of Gaza, I gave (them). And thus I diminished his land. 35 I added to the former tribute, 36 and I lad upon him the surrender of their land and imposts?gifts for my majesty. 37 As for Hezekiah, 38 the terrifying splendor of my majesty overcame him, and 39 the Arabs and his mercenary troops which he had brought in to strengthen 40 Jerusalem , his royal city, 41 deserted him. In addition to the thirty talents of gold and 42 eight hundred talents of silver, gems, antimony, 43 jewels, large carnelians, ivory-inlaid couches, 44 ivory-inlaid chairs, elephant hides, elephant tusks, 45 ebony, boxwood, all kinds of valuable treasures, 46 as well as his daughters, his harem, his male and female 47 musicians, which he had brought after me 48 to Nineveh, my royal city. To pay tribute 49 and to accept servitude, he dispatched his messengers.
Peace!
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,In the meantime, please check out these two breathtaking videos
The first from the documentary show "Ushuaia" describing the architecture of Yemen, and the famous trade routes of Arabia. It's called "Perfumes of Happy Arabia" (unfortunately, it's in French).
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1M6lmBEeP4&feature=related
The Second "Hadaramawt Land of Dreams" (This is the same "Hazaramaveth" which appears in the Torah).
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW7GVS-Jx0M&feature=related
Enjoy...
To Be Continued?
Salaam
Thank you Pazazu for the videos above; it seems they were done professionally, but with the mix of arabic and french commentary it was not easily understood. I hope one day we'll be able to see a full documentary on this captivating subject.
I think it's good that you are having to face so many questions about the valididity of your findings as this must pave the way for a thorougly reaserched book on the subject, hopefully authored by you.
peace -
Shoukran Pazuzu D
i apreciatte your invitation and i will join if i find something usefull to complete this "issue" or others in forum, D , but in fact me and most of people here should/must give you your time to finish to explain your wellfounded and solid conclusion, so now is time for us to learn and check our conclusions, so im following each post very coriously, has i said before I NEED to now the rest(we all know in our Hearts) but i now you, us together will put all the picture so perfectly that will rest no doubt
As-Salamu Aleykum
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Thank you Pazuzu for your topic and interesting information, I admire your patience with all the questioners.
I am very eager, and a bit impatient, to read your post which announced about the Hebrew language!
For me that subject is extremely important, especially for the claims the Jewish tradition has, that God looked into the Torah and the Hebrew letters to create the world!
And that the Torah, with the Sacred Hebrew Language, was created even before the world!Please continue, thank you.
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Hello,
If I was fluent in English, I may join the discussion and put some thoughts as well. If I have to say in short, I just say that I totally disagree with Pazuzu in thread. In simple, all of those claims so weak and don't fit a bit. Traditional Islamic History regarding to Mohammad is rational and more accurate than any other claims in my opinion. The actual ambiguity is related with Abraham, Samuel, Jacob and his ancestors.. not related with Mohammad.
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Thank you Pazazu for the videos above; it seems they were done professionally, but with the mix of arabic and french commentary it was not easily understood. I hope one day we'll be able to see a full documentary on this captivating subject.
You're welcome. They are both almost the same. The first video is higher reolution, contains speech, and is slower to download. The second is lower resolution, and is just images and music, without speech, and downloads faster.
I think it's good that you are having to face so many questions about the valididity of your findings as this must pave the way for a thorougly reaserched book on the subject, hopefully authored by you.
I serioulsy doubt I can contribute anymore to this subject than what has already been written on it.
For me that subject is extremely important, especially for the claims the Jewish tradition has, that God looked into the Torah and the Hebrew letters to create the world!
And that the Torah, with the Sacred Hebrew Language, was created even before the world!LIES.
This is no different than the Shia Muslims' claim that their imams were born before the universe. That the names Ali, Hassan, Fatima, and Hussein were the names Allah gave to Adam, and that those "Infallibles" were the light from which teh Universe was created.
Can you see the pattern here? Same kind of corruption, with the same motive POLITICAL MANIPULATION.
What if I proved to you that there was never such thing as a "Hebrew" language? What if I proved to you that the language being spoken by the Jews in so-called "Israel" today, was invented by the Zionists in the late 19th Century, and is nothing more than a perverted version of Aramaic, mixed with an old German dialect?
What will your reaction be?
Traditional Islamic History regarding to Mohammad is rational and more accurate than any other claims in my opinion.
Traditional Islamic history is 90% garbage and only 10% truth.
The thing that annoys me about some FM members is how they are always so eager to disprove the historicity of Mecca. They will go to any length to prove that "Mecca didn't exist before so and so period" or that "It wasn't on any trade toute".
However, when they are presented with evidence concerning Palestine and Jerusalem; when they are shown solid archeoligical proof that the Jerusalem of Palestine didn't even exist before 600 BC, and that there is no trace of Solomon's temple there, they turn a deaf ear and a blind eye to it.
Why is that so? Why the double standard?
Pelase think and reflect on this...
I will continue this thread on the week-end.
Peace...
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As a reader in my childhood of the bible, I do have an impressi?n of it which is enduring. And nothing fits it better that its comparison with hadith. There are truths in the bible, whether revealed or not is left to perossonal opinion in each case, but it is an error to take it as a unit. The bible, the same has hadith, is a haphazard collection of narrations in which the best is mixed up with the worst, and with all in between. I remember still the distate with which, being a child, I read some passages. The arbitrariness of many things, shocking with it being considered a sacred book and particularly shocking to the mind of a child.
And that is what has always bothered me since childhood, the dutiful sacralisation of a history, of a people, of a land... Not to say that I would have them demonized, of course not, neither the one nor the other. All lands are sacred, all histories are sacred all people are sacred, because all belongs to God and God has not given anybody or any people an exclusive, or has a privileged private relation with God that is not given to others. God hos not done that, and it is on that pressumptions that all the "exceptionallity" of the Bible and the people and history told therein are sacralised, as if they were specislly sacred and therefore entitled to special regard. The Bible must be subjected to exactly the same rules as other books, other peoples other lands.
But THEY WERE THERE BEFORE AND TOOK THE BEST SEATS. But most of what has been seeped into our culture relies comes from everything being arranged so that it fits the bible and not taking as a prime consideration that everthing fits with prooved facts.It is true how poeple do not flinch at Jerusalem being taken as holy and can be revolted because Meka being taken as such. Couldn't we be a little more sober?
Jarusalem, as far as I am concerned, right now the "sacred" thing about it is the human and rightful ressistance of the Palestinian population to being treated has garbage for the benefit of some legends. Real people paying in blood to some old myths which as a principle sacralise one people to the detriment other people. And myths is what we would consider the bible narrations if we came from another culture not already impregnated by Judeochristian presettings, for instance Japan, simple myths, as such deserving scrupulous study to see how they formed and what comes from real events and what comes from other arrangements or sources.
But we have grown with that, just as we have grown on a soil. If the soil is withdrawn we cannot walk, if the ideological ground we are grounded in is withdrawn, we are lost.
But the belief in Jerusalem and the biblical myths is no more deserving of respect than any hadith or myth and belief in Mekka.
And it is not a football match either, that if one looses the other wins. May be they both win, may be they both lose, but it must rest on something else than presumptions, or, as some have said, default settings.
Salaam
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Peace everyone peace
I just read the article "Where Was Mohammed?" http//free-minds.org/where-was-mohammed
And now i am to say convinced by it that the real pilgramage is to jerusalem, and not to mecca!!!
Also, God Almighty Prophecised in the Quran that the children of Israel were going to occupy the Masjid!
Now To Pazuzu, Let me ask this, which place did/are the Children Of Israel currently occupying???
Unless you believe that the children of Israel are going to change their mind and occupy Yemen, then the Masjid refered in the Quran in sura 17, has to be around the occupied land, more likely the city of Jerusalem.
Also, what about Jesus, Was he not sent to the children of Israel in Jerusalem, and around that area? hmm
I think that article "Where Was Mohammed?" shedds much light )
~peace peace -
I just read the article "Where Was Mohammed?" http//free-minds.org/where-was-mohammed
And now i am to say convinced by it that the real pilgramage is to jerusalem, and not to mecca!!!That article was written by someone who had the pre-conceived notion that Palestine was the Holy Land promised to the Israelites. Because he didn't find any evidence that Mecca existed before the 3rd Century A.D, nor was it on any trade route, (and I agree fully with hin on this), he immediately shifted his attention north towards Jerusalem and became convinced that it was destination of the Patriarch Abraham (P).
He completely dismissed the possibilty of turning southwards towards Asir and Yemen. That possibility just didn't occur to him. He fell into the Zionist trap.
Despite the staggering evidence which has emerged from beneath the earth of Palestine, a spot of land that the Zionist archeologists have been turning inside out for over 80 years. They have not found a single BRICK to prove any Jewish presence there before 600 B.C.
And yet, you people still insist.
Now To Pazuzu, Let me ask this, which place did/are the Children Of Israel currently occupying???
brickwall
They are currently occupying NOTHING. The Children of Israel don't exist anymore. The Children of Israel were ancient tribes from the distant childhood of Arabia. They have vanished and long gone.
The occupiers of Palestine today are KHAZARI and EUROPEAN JEWS. They have NOTHING to do with Bani Israel. These crooks have taken the Torah, whose passages describe events which took place in South West Arabia, and claimed it as their own history.
The fact that you can't distinguish between Bani Israel and JEWS is truly sad. Bani Israel were the children of a man whom the Quran names Israel. He was a PERSON. They existed centuries before Judaism even appeared. Later on in their history, some of the Israelites embraced Judaism, while others embraced the Nasarene Creed. SOme even reverted to idol worship, as the Torah clearly states. Bani Israel were a TRIBE. Judasim is a RELIGION. For GOD'S SAKE!! Is it so hard to understand?
Tell me something do you know the difference between Quraish and Islam? Are they synonymous? Let's say a German man embraces Islam today (a religion which originated in Arabia). Does this mean that he becomes, by default, a descendant of Quraish, and has the rightful inheritance to thir land? Do we invite all German Muslims to come and occupy Arabia just because they embraced a religion that was born there?
By the EXACT SAME logic, the Jews who occupy Palestine today are Europeans and Khazars, who just happened to embrace Judaism, a religion which also was born in Arabia, as I have proved, and will continue to prove. So does this mean that they automatically become the rightful heirs of Bani Israel (an ancient Arab tribe) and are therefore entitled to come an occupy Yemen?
What is wrong with you, man? Is it so hard to understand?
THE JEWS WHO OCCUPY PALESTINE TODAY ARE NOT THE BANI-ISRAEL WHO ARE MENTIONED IN THE QURAN.
And by claiming that they are, you are unknowingly ACKNOWLEDGING them the right to occupy an Arab land.
Also, what about Jesus, Was he not sent to the children of Israel in Jerusalem, and around that area?
The Quran does not mention Jesus (Yeshua). It mentions Isa (Esau). These are two completely different names of tow completely different people, who have nothing to do with each other, not in time nor in place.
But that's a totally different subject which I will not disscuss here.
Peace..
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[They are currently occupying NOTHING. The Children of Israel don't exist anymore. The Children of Israel were ancient tribes from the distant childhood of Arabia. They have vanished and long gone.[/color
Qur'aan calls addressing these vanished and long gone people by name while Qur'aan is not for dead people.
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Peace Pazuzu peace
The children of Israel are not vanished, they are alive and thriving. They have to be alive as to conform their prophecy in Sura 17.
Now I will not dismiss Jesus, because he was sent to the children of Israel, which were by the Jerusalem area. Clearly if you read the Gospels' account of Jesus and the account of Esa in the Quran, you will see that they are the same people, just different spelling. Who was the Messiah? Who brought the Gospels? Was it not Jesus?
Let me state that Jesus's name was not "Jesus", but more likely the Hebrew Yeshua, which is a shortened form of the Hebrew Name Yahushua (~"God's Salvation". This name in arabic is put as 'esa in the Quran.
I will also cite Elijah, who in the original Hebrew is called Eli-YAHU, but in both the NT and the Quran, He is Called Elyas, does that mean that Eli-YAHU is not the same as the arabic ElYAS?.Another Point i want to mention is that it really does not matter where solomon's and David's kingdom were, because the original Promised land was from the brook of egypt (i.e Wadi el-Arish) to the north-eastern euphrates river (Gen 151. Thus his is where God Almighty will Bring the Children of Israel to, as per Quranic Prophecy in Sura 17. This Prophecy has already been taking place.
~Peace peace
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Qur'aan calls addressing these vanished and long gone people by name while Qur'aan is not for dead people.
Well, Mr. Mazhar, would you care to tell us where the Children of Israel are right now? Can you identify them?
If you think that the Ashkinazi Jews ( the Europeans and Khazars who are occupying Palestine right now) are the Children of Israel, then I weep for you. You are marketting Zionist propaganda without even being aware of yourself.
Take a look at the following photo
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Netanyahu.jpg
Now tell me. Does that man, whose parents imigrated to Palestine from POLAND, look Semitic to you?
Does he bear any relation whatsoever to the Children of Israel?The truth is that this man is of European descent. And if you trace his ancestry back deep enough, you will find them to be KHAZAR JEWS. Claiming that this man is Semitic is an insult to Semitism and an insult to humanity itself. To claim that he is from Bani Israel is a vile corruption of history itself.
Now look at this next photo
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Cute.jpg
That little fellow (a Yemeni Jew), has more Israeli blood coursing through his veins than all the Jews of occupied Palestine put together. And reading about him and the plight of his people will make your heart ache.
The Children of Israel do not exist anymore. They have scattered and mixed with the other races and peoples of the world.
Please wake up.