Does Islam support a Capitalist or a Socialist system?
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As long as there is a majority is unlearned/uneducated people, I think that no system can improve their situation on the long term. The only way is to diffuse knowledge and help people emancipate, to be able to defend their rights without forgeting to always work towards the common wellness. I think this is the message of al-quran to "ahl alkitab" the learned.
Hey there,
That's an interesting idea. What I would say is why should people have to be learned and educated? I mean, the common man/woman, with an incredibly busy lifestyle trying to balance so many things, cannot be expected to be educated on the complexities of the economy and foreign policy (especially in the joke of democracy we have now where 90% of candidates say the same thing).
However, what has been proven time and time again, is that people are incredibly well-educated when it comes to their own lives. People make thought out decisions depending on their own situation and the situations of those close to them.
That's why a socialist state is such an abhorrent idea to me (note that I used to be a massive socialist until I read libertarian works of Friedman and Hayek) The fact that a socialist state would act on your behalf as though it knows what is best for you is, in my opinion, the biggest fallacy in the system. PEOPLE know what is best for them. If we leave them to it, perhaps we could get on with our lives.
So when you say "common wellness", I'm not sure what you mean. What is the common wellness? Is it the utilitarian ideal of "the greatest happiness for the greatest number"?
Thanks
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Salaam Someone,
in law a man or woman who needs another to make decisions or represent them are seen in the law as mentally incompetent, a child is not competent to deal with their own affairs, so the parent takes on the responsibility of knowing what is best for the child.
Democracy is not lawful, it is a trick to fool the stupid into thinking they are a part of the system upon them, but in truth that system is designed by the accumulated wealth elite and functions solely for their benefit.
Exactly. The greatest conspiracy in the world is that politicians and presidents are not legally required to uphold their manifestos and can completely disregard their mandates when in power.
Just thinking about Obama and how he appointed Larry Summers and Ben Bernake as his financial advisors (people who cause the meltdown) makes my blood boil.
I stayed up all night to watch that guy get inaugurated. I honestly thought the world was going to change.
What a joke.
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My two cents---
We need an EXTREMELY LIMITED FEDERAL GOV AND LOCAL GOV'S---- forget towns and cities---power should be held at the level of the NEIBORHOOD!!!!!!
The fed should rely on funding from the bottom up. Also as far as economics is concerned---Their should be NO CORPORATIONS AND NO FRANCHISES---people should be very limited to the number of business entities they can own and inherit, the amount of land they can acquire, EVERYTHING SHOULD BE SMALL BUSINESSES EVERYWHERE THE WORLD OVER--- all franchises should be allowed to keep their largest holding but should be forced to sell or gift everything else to private individuals---
Also I think that charity should be VOLUNTARY AND PRIVATE, EDUCATION SHOULD BE PRIVATE, and everything else all so called public goods--I do not think that government has anything to do with welfare---it invites corruption! Therefore the basic unit of society should not be towns but neiborhoods---literally I think all townships and cities ought to be DEFRANCHISED------except for a small counsel that sets the laws for so many neiborhoods---it would collect the funds of the FEDERAL GOV by taking money VOLUNTARILY from the people during town hall type meetings---literally the feds would have to get its gold from a churches collection plate or a top hat or tip jar like you see in diners. No joke.
Real money is GOLD, SILVER AND other precious metals and diamonds etc----
As far as regulation of business is concerned it should be up to NEIBORHOOD COUNSELS to get together and find out what is right.---The federal government should be only to direct the military (which should be composed of private militias and a voluntary national guard.) Also the method of regulation of business is reputation--if a employer does something bad like shorting his customers it would be the duty of all the people of the nighborhood to start a very vocal protest against them--picket them--right bad reviews, hold signs that say 'dont shop here--they are ____ and they did ____ to ___" whatever--somebody messes up then they should be put straight into the unemployed market.
The police should be there to handle the big problems like riots or murders or whatnot everything else should defer to PRIVATE ARBITRATION----as much as possible---
sun
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Salaam Herring,
reading your comments you are partly correct and partly wrong, firstly making laws. The law of the land, known as natural law, which is fully explained in this community contract, http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/178/235/ is inalienable and immutable. The idea of needing legislation which you suggest in your post is in fact in opposition to law, as it makes what is unlawful into positive law.
Positive law is authoritarian law, and applies only to slaves.
The second problem you have suggested is business, in the present model of business based upon Riba, a concept few wish to grasp, you have an unlawful relationship, this lends itself to corruption, fraud and division, exploitation and monopoly.
Within the contract of community linked above, I also explain the natural law business model.
You need no more than the contract of community to free yourself, in the case of ownership a clear fraud in itself I conceived an allodium claim affidavit to remove it, and a friend of mine who had been evicted from his home by the courts for the banking corporation used my advice, and the courts were forced to give him back his home, he has no debt to the bank and is now on good terms with the local corporate policy enforces (police).
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Salam everyone and especially Confused
Capitalism and socialism cannot be compared, just like apples and pears cannot be compared. They have two completely different agendas, one is an economic system and one is an ideological system. Where is this ying-yang comparison coming from?.....I blame America....
Coming from a social democratic country I can with my entire heart say that if one can interpret the Quran into a political manifesto it will certainly be social democracy, at least the type that I live in.
I agree with Edip. -
Salaam Emil,
your conclusion that Islam demands a socialist democracy is based upon what invention, your opinion? Your intuition? Your exposure to a single social paradigm makes your case?
You conclude an unlawful system and claim it as Islamic, I realise my views are not popular but they are based in fact, its a shame those who pretend to want to understand the true Islam don't apply reason and open their minds to other paradigms than the only one they have experienced.
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Salaam Emil,
your conclusion that Islam demands a socialist democracy is based upon what invention, your opinion? Your intuition? Your exposure to a single social paradigm makes your case?
You conclude an unlawful system and claim it as Islamic, I realise my views are not popular but they are based in fact, its a shame those who pretend to want to understand the true Islam don't apply reason and open their minds to other paradigms than the only one they have experienced.
Salam brother
Please read my post again a bit more carefully. Did I really claim social democracy as islamic.......Did I claim Islam demands social democracy..... I said if one can interpret the Quran into some political manifesto......Key word is if, brother. I have no intention into ever mixing my faith with politics. But if one should, then they would find social democracy sharing the largest amount of similarities with islam than any other kind of political ideology. But just for saying the most human-like animal is the monkey does not make the monkey into a almost-human, I guess you follow what I mean.
I call it as I see it, brother. The countries where I have found a strong solidarity towards and amongst the people, where money is not the only barometer for success, where intellect not wealth governs the choice of education, where people are not afraid to speak their mind..........have been exclusively under a social democratic government.........I find these attributes very islamic. Call it unlawful if you want, I call it total nonsense to ever categorise the word of Allah into a man-made political ideology.
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Salaam Emil,
I agree Islam is utterly and completely void of a 'POLITICAL' system, it is both unlawful to have such a parasitic imposition and comprehensively un-Islamic.
Islam was never a religion, it was never designed to be subverted to the worship of a sky God, the adoration of an invention of one's mind, the blind faith of sheep and thoughtless fools. Islam was designed as a Deen, a way to exist, a society based upon the models it demands, sadly if you view Islam as an expansion of the death cult of Christianity or Judaism your mind shuts down to reason, you see only what religion dictates.
What I have been explaining on my website is beginning to be applied, and it works, natural law is the most powerful tool you have, it is designed to form society, in fact natural law is the basis of all society, this is why in the modern world we have not got a society, we have a corporate culture, and a corporation acts as a clinical psychopath, it has no regard for mankind, it cares for only one thing increasing profit, it burns the earth, poisons the seas, pollutes the air, starves the poor, exploits the vulnerable, it act without conscience as it is an incorporeal entity, the invention of charter, the mere creation of legislation, utterly unlawful.
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Salaam Emil,
I agree Islam is utterly and completely void of a 'POLITICAL' system, it is both unlawful to have such a parasitic imposition and comprehensively un-Islamic.
Islam was never a religion, it was never designed to be subverted to the worship of a sky God, the adoration of an invention of one's mind, the blind faith of sheep and thoughtless fools. Islam was designed as a Deen, a way to exist, a society based upon the models it demands, sadly if you view Islam as an expansion of the death cult of Christianity or Judaism your mind shuts down to reason, you see only what religion dictates.
What I have been explaining on my website is beginning to be applied, and it works, natural law is the most powerful tool you have, it is designed to form society, in fact natural law is the basis of all society, this is why in the modern world we have not got a society, we have a corporate culture, and a corporation acts as a clinical psychopath, it has no regard for mankind, it cares for only one thing increasing profit, it burns the earth, poisons the seas, pollutes the air, starves the poor, exploits the vulnerable, it act without conscience as it is an incorporeal entity, the invention of charter, the mere creation of legislation, utterly unlawful.
Salam Abdun
You say it very well brother, I will make sure to check out your website.
One of the best expressions I've heard lately is "God does not want you to believe in Him, God wants you to believe in his Way." Can't remember who said it though....I do not believe in Satan, but I keep telling those who do that he will not make you stop following God, he will trick you into thinking you follow God but in fact you are following Satan. Pollution is a good example .........How we have become dependant on a substance that will eventually kill everything, and the cherry on top is the fact that the largest suppliers and the largest consumers consider themselves to be the biggest believers of God.
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AOA
natural law is the most powerful tool you have, it is designed to form society, in fact natural law is the basis of all society
Could you please explain a little further. What is a natural law and how it is the basis of all society?
Regards -
Salaam Stillearning,
natural law is simple, it is the foundation of all law, everywhere on earth, it is based upon reason, it is known as the law of the land, prescriptive law, the unwritten law, but it is basically based upon two simple laws that must be kept in mind when you create a society, they must always remain the base.
Do all you have agreed to do.
Do not encroach upon another man or woman, or their property.Although really the 'or their property' bit is within the logic of the first part of do not encroach.
From these two simple laws all law flows, and as extension society.
If you go on my website I have written the reasoned understanding of natural law, and the concept of allodial rights of use, which is an integral part of the law, I have also explained many of the frauds, like ownership, legislation, democracy, corporation, trusts, etc.
Contract of community
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/178/235/
Allodium Claim
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/197/239/
Onion of ownership
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/194/231/
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Salaam Stillearning,
natural law is simple, it is the foundation of all law, everywhere on earth, it is based upon reason, it is known as the law of the land, prescriptive law, the unwritten law, but it is basically based upon two simple laws that must be kept in mind when you create a society, they must always remain the base.
Do all you have agreed to do.
Do not encroach upon another man or woman, or their property.Although really the 'or their property' bit is within the logic of the first part of do not encroach.
From these two simple laws all law flows, and as extension society.
If you go on my website I have written the reasoned understanding of natural law, and the concept of allodial rights of use, which is an integral part of the law, I have also explained many of the frauds, like ownership, legislation, democracy, corporation, trusts, etc.
Contract of community
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/178/235/
Allodium Claim
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/197/239/
Onion of ownership
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/194/231/
Salaam Abdun,
Thanks for the links.
Are you intending to reference your articles contents to the Quran? I note that you've done this for a minority of all your website articles. After all
Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of Allah without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution.
Peace.
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Salaam Abdun,
Your response evades my question and seems hypocritical. If you will choose not to support your claims with Quranic reference, this will not be different to the majority who "....uphold baseless Hadith...." . Why post or maintain a website, if you are seeking to show others Truth, then surely this would entail justifying your claims?
Peace.
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Salaam Str41ghtw4y,
its self evident from the Islamic concepts, the simple concepts support all I write, like Allah is the owner of all creation, therefore we cannot own anything but what we ourselves create, so the earth and her resources belong to Allah alone as we never created it, we only have a right of use. Allah is the only sovereign, not even Muhammad can be your sovereign, this removes all forms of imposed authority, in every walk of life.
It needs no great effort to see the concepts of Islam, like the concept of no compulsion which demands you do no impose on those around you with your dictates and beliefs.
Like I say follow what you wish, I am not obligated to hold anyones hand and lead them through the concepts of Islam, as people refuse what is difficult to accept as true, and much of what I write is hard for most to accept.
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Salaam Str41ghtw4y,
its self evident from the Islamic concepts, the simple concepts support all I write, like Allah is the owner of all creation, therefore we cannot own anything but what we ourselves create, so the earth and her resources belong to Allah alone as we never created it, we only have a right of use. Allah is the only sovereign, not even Muhammad can be your sovereign, this removes all forms of imposed authority, in every walk of life.
It needs no great effort to see the concepts of Islam, like the concept of no compulsion which demands you do no impose on those around you with your dictates and beliefs.
Like I say follow what you wish, I am not obligated to hold anyones hand and lead them through the concepts of Islam, as people refuse what is difficult to accept as true, and much of what I write is hard for most to accept.
Salaam Abdun,
Clearly we all follow what we wish - but this latter part of your answer digresses from the point I have raised which relates to providing justifications from the Quran to support a point of view. Note that I'm clearly not making any specific claims/counter-claims to the content of your posts, or making a statement of my position with regard to the content. I am merely pointing out that your purported articles of 'truth' simply cannot be published as 'truth' in the way they are currently written, without references.
Quite revealing is your use of statements such as 'self evident', 'simple concepts', 'refuse what is difficult to accept as true' etc in order to justify your claims rather than Quranic references. It amounts to you posting a baseless opinion - which is fine, and in keeping with what the majority do. There are many good blogs out there, yours is one of them. It is a pity that you seem to equate effective argumentation and justification as 'hand-holding'. Particularly as I see great potential in transforming many of the articles on your site into ones with supported claims of truth - or at least pointers to Truth.
However, as you say, there is no compulsion.
Peace.