Israel
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Salaam/Shalom/PAZ/PEACE
THERE?s nothing Holy in Jerusalem, Bible and AlQuran tells us of the people who lived in Arabian Penisula,
Theres no prove or archeological evidence in Israel ... ALLAH knows best sunI sugest you to read brother Pazuzu Posts about
Hebrew the child of Israel, and semitic migrations http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603191.0the road of the Patriarch http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603245.0
Jesus vs Isa http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599509.0
Hope it helps sun to me it helped the most...
SHALOM ALEYK sun
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Maybe Israel was in North America.
http//www.econ.ohio-state.edu/jhm/arch/loslunas.html
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Hi I tries to check out some of the links.
I dont make sence. I been in Hebron and I seen the place where the tomb of Abraham is. its a muslim place but surronded by Jewish. Would you say that jesus was not in Israel/bethlehem/Jerusalem.
Why do other Muslim says that Jesus come back again on mount Olive (Jerusalem).
And why is all the tombs (Jewish, Christian and Muslims) all on the mounth Olive.
How do you explain the city of Jerusalem.
all the profets in the old testament talks about these citys of Israel. So all there profeties should not concerning them but another place.
I really sad '( to hear that you really beliwe this stuff and this article. For me its just wishthinking but nothing to do with the truth.
The Quran confirms the Toran and the messengers in this book. -
Salaam, dont '( , you can loose some preconcived ideas you had for a long time, but surly in a few time u will feel happier D
Allah(creator) is the most important thing above anything sun
If you read everything i posted to you , you will get a figure of what is being discussed nowadays, its not the same interpretation for everyone.. but archeologicly speaking theres no prove that Jerusalem in Palestine is Holyland, its just Sionist dream, its a fabrikation.. i also passed to the same sadness when i discover many things, but in the end Allah is there, Always
I been in Hebron and I seen the place where the tomb of Abraham is sure its his tomb? for me they can open to check , i will be gladD i bet he is in the Mountainous region of Asir in ^Yemeen together with all Past Prophets ..Muhamed(P) also!!!, so Realax apreciate creation, read History, find Arqueology provs, change ideas and alwayes try to find the oposite, if you dont search you will not get enlightned..and take tame to digest some truths... sun sun
The Quran confirms the Toran and the messengers in this book. this keeps the same... But Maryam(P) was MAry? JEsus in Palastine was ISa(P) ? i dont think so..
Otherwise is to say AlQuran have mistakes and we need hadith to explain... sun
SAlaam may Allah increase our knowledge pr
Salaam from Portugal
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Salam.
So if I get you right you say that Jesus in The Bible is not Jesus in the Quran.
So what about all the other Profets mentionet in the Quran
6.84 -86 And We gave to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - all We guided. And Noah, We guided before; and among his descendants, David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron. Thus do We reward the doers of good.And Zechariah and John and Jesus and Elias - and all were of the righteous And Ishmael and Elisha and Jonah and Lot - and all We preferred over the worlds.
Zechariah 122"I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem.
Or 2 Kings 23The company of the prophets at Bethel came out to Elisha and asked, "Do you know that the LORD is going to take your master from you today?"The Jewish has a special covenant with God (2.40)O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and fulfill My covenant that I will fulfill your covenant , and be afraid of MeIf we just take David, he made a lot in the Bible most of the Psalms. Jerusalem is called the town of David.
Jesus was also a lot in jerusalem. And he was seen as the new King (David)Its like I hear you say that the Toran is not true. But you should think of (3.81)And , when Allah took the covenant of the prophets, , "Whatever I give you of the Scripture and wisdom and then there comes to you a messenger confirming what is with you, you believe in him and support him.Remember that God made a special covenant with the jewish (2.40)O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and fulfill My covenant that I will fulfill your covenant , and be afraid of Me
(I dont say this covenant exist today, but God made it during that time before Israel came through).
Its like if I have to accept what you beliwe in I have to reject the Gods words itself. Offcouse I wont do that.
Could you please come with some concrete information from the Quran that support what you a thinking is true. Its not enough just to say it is so. What I beliwe is Gods word and scientific facts. All other thing or words are just man made things.Salaam from Denmark
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Salaam brother sun
Can you please tell me if you read all this?i mean the 3 posts till the end?
Hebrew the child of Israel, and semitic migrations http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603191.0
the road of the Patriarch http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603245.0
Jesus vs Isa http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599509.0
AQuran is complete... what i said is that Jesus sun of carpenter in Palestine, is nothing to do with Isa(P) (Maryam?s son the Messiah) Also AQ mentions us that MAryam(P) is sister of Mussa(P) so wich lived even before David, thats acording to Quran..
I cant be more precise, translations were made to fullfill bible names..but AQuran + History and arqueology are showing us other stuff..
Please my friend i really dont mean to be rude or look badguy,but the Creator teach us to search for answers not to eat answers from our ancestors.. so i sugest 1 more time read all those articles, take your time, go around meditate, and ALWAYS REMEMBER THIS AQ complete; translations around not accurate; OLD FOLKS(hadiths) of euro or arab culture are not to be taking as primordial truth...
Salaam
may Allah help us increase our knowledge and sorry fro any misconception or hate/damage i may caused to you..thats not my objective.. ) sun pr -
Saalam also to you brother
I tried to read them again.
The first one is jus roumers . I dont see any facts. Its like the writers one thinking. If you like to take a issue out I would like to show you how he could be mistaken
The second is a long speculation about Abraham. Its is true he travel a lot. But the issue is that he should had travel very long. But maybe it because we dont really know where the citys was. So it dosn?t prove anything.
His conclution is And ALL the prophets mentioned in the Quran, from Noah (P) to Muhamad (P) lived and died in Arabia and nowhere else. PERIOD.
So let us take one specifik David. Did he also live in Arabia..
And jesus also.. And the river of Jordan ids not the river of JordanThe third one come more close to the therory. (but remember all can come with a therory, its the facts thats interesting)
And its one writer of a book that comes with this clames.Maybe we dont understand everything in the Quran, but it dosn?t mean that we should make up our own explenations.
How can you deny the Quran or the Toran just like that.
What do you think of the passages i pasted? All wrong?Another thing is that he dont accept that Ismael and Isaac was seperated. But so also the Toran sayes.
I dont know for sure but I think the wo solid argument in the hole article is that Abraham traveled a lot and Maryam was sister to Aron
I see the evidense in the Quran the Toran and in the historical facts, I cant see that something else should change it.The first one we dont know how they really was located (Ismael and Isaac). But to assume something can be very wrong. If the esayes explanition is that they all must have been in Arabia, dosn?t mean that its the wright explanation. All the profets after in Toran was living in Israel.
The second
All the theory comes out because Maryam is mentionet as brother to Aron in the Quran. And thats why the auther wanted it to fit. So all should have lived in Arabia and that would make sence for himBeeing sister to Aron/Mussa is an expression. You cant change history or the word of God because you maybe dont understand that meening of one sentance in the Quran.
Like you call me brother dont mean that we are born by the same mother. I thinking its because we are brothers in faith I assume sun
Also sorry if my word somethimes can sound like rude its also not my meening. I just can be carried away in my own way of telling the things
Its a nice expression you have about not to eat answers from our ancestors.. We both seek the truth. And as you I dont take Hadiths for granded.
Thats why I only quoted from the Quran, the Toran and what I seen with my own eyes. Thats these three references I have and I put my belive in.Saalam brother
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Salaam
How can you deny the Quran or the Toran just like that. i didnt deny the AQ..thats putting something in my mouth..what i said is that ALQURAN IS COMPLETE.. but Bible as we know it not accurate due to translations, manipulations etc..
All the profets after in Toran was living in Israel prove to me? !
Maryam Beeing sister to Aron/Mussa is an expression... expression? so Isa son of Maryam is also expression? brickwall
Like you call me brother dont mean that we are born by the same mother. I thinking its because we are brothers in faith I assume sure but if i born in 1000 after you or even 100 years after surly i wouldnt call you brother understand??... need to be same timeframe ..
Thats why I only quoted from the Quran, the Toran and what I seen with my own eyes. Thats these three references I have and I put my belive in. exacly the same has me but for me ALLAH AQ + arqueology,cience,geography,etc, sun
Salaam sun think wiselyD
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Beeing sister to Aron/Mussa is an expression. You cant change history or the word of God because you maybe dont understand that meening of one sentance in the Quran.
Like you call me brother dont mean that we are born by the same mother. I thinking its because we are brothers in faith I assume
Yes, it may not be that they were from the same mother. I admit this is possible. But to say that they lived 1000 years apart is complete absurdness. You don't address someone as "my brother" if he lived in another era.
Like when Moses asked Allah to bring HIS BROTHER Aron along with him to confront Pharaoh, you are telling me that they werent blood brothers? fine. I'll accept it. But where they contemporaries? Or did they live 1000 years apart?
Even according to the Old Testament, Moses, Maryam and Aron were contemporaries.
This is why some Jewish scholars claimed that Muhamad was insane because he mixed up Maryam, daughter of Amran, with Mary, mother of Jesus.
And do you know what the Muslims scholars said in defence of their "beloved" prophet? They said EXACTLY what you are saying now "Oh no! he didn't mean they were literally brother and sister in the blood! He meant she was his sister in faith!".
Instead of letting the Quran correct their misconception and pre-conditioned dogma, they did the opposite they twisted the meaning of the verse to make it fit with their misconceptions. The ywere afraid to stand for the truth.
Also, I agree 100% that there was a very important Jewish community in Jerusalem , Palestine. But this did not take place until the 4th century BC. All I'm saying is that it was not the original homeland of the Jews. Their original kingdom was in Yemen, somwehere in the Sarat (mountains) of Himyar. Wave after wave of Assyrian and Babylonian attacks had reduced it to rubble, and so they migrated northwards...just like many other tribes before and after them did.
There is zero archeological evidence of David and Solomon's kingdom in Palestine, and ZERO evidence of Assyrian campaigns against that land - which at the time was peripheral and of little strategic importance. In fact, if you read the entire corpus of the Assyrian cuniform tablets depicting the Exile, you will not find the word "Palestine" mentioned anywhere. You will find "Ur Salem", "Arabs" and "Camels", however.
It was the migrating Jews who found the city on a knoll in a coastal plain of Palestine and decided to name it "UrSalem" in remembrance of their ancient, mountainous Yemeni homeland. The Romans, however, named that town "Ilya Capitulana" NOT Jerusalem. Even the description of the geography of David's city in the OT does NOT even closely resemble anything in Palestine.
The story of Solomon and Sheba in the Quran is nothing but a rendered version of an ancient Yemeni legend, and the verses contain many clear evidences that their two domains were right next to each other, and shared borders.
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Salam Nomad
| How can you deny the Quran or the Toran just like that. i didnt deny the AQ..thats putting something in my mouth..what i said is that ALQURAN IS COMPLETE.. but Bible as we know it not accurate due to translations, manipulations etc..
Sorry for putting the words incorrect. What I ment was that the scriptures from AQ shows that the profets before was accepted by God. They are not just some other names in the AQ. Thats why I thinking that you are not concerned of what I reffered to in AQ or OT, and that let me to that you go against it. Sorry for putting it wrong peace
All the profets after in Toran was living in Israel prove to me?
That what why I mentioned the scriptures from AQ to prove that God is confirming these Profets. Ang God also confirming the scripture (OT) in general in 3.81. Thats the proff. Because in the Scripture are mentioned where they are living and that is in Israel.
Maryam Beeing sister to Aron/Mussa is an expression... expression? so Isa son of Maryam is also expression?
Because one thing is an expression dosn?t mean that all other things are. Things an?t that simple to conclute
Peace brother
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Salaam sun
I dont know your age or if its a language problem..but you seem to keep beliving in sta clausss...
SO you think God in the Quran say that maryam sister of Musa just for fun? You think AQ is stand up comedy? elektro
I cannot do more for you... I
told you 5 times that i take only ALQURAN ,,,,,and NO BIBBLE because bible today is not complete, not the word of God... UNDERSTAND or i need to make a 6th post to enlight you?.. pr angel sunWAKE UP MY FRIEND sun
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Sallam
Sorry if i sound rude last post, obvius thats not my objective..belive me sun handshake
i Know i didnt used the best words, and im sorry for that..i admit, angel
But in relation to rest i keep my opinionD and you can keep yoursD
In the end... only AllAh pr
May God incrase our knowledge and enlightment, and sorry for last post...i feel ive become >D but really not that intention...PEACE
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Salam NielsJacob
First I don't believe that any land on earth (whether it's Israel, Arab Peninsula, Ethiopia, Australia, China whatever) is HOLY. There are no such thing as "Holy Land".
Second I share your 'disbelief' on the content of that article.However we respect 'freedom of opinion' here, if there's an article on the site, it doesn't mean that everyone here also share the same opinion as the article writer.
If you like; you can also submit your own article which state your own opinion...
Salam / Peace
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Salaam Pazuzu
I seen you stated a lot about this issue.
Has anyone on this planet ever proven the existence of a language called Hebrew a language which they claim had become dormant for 2000 years before it was revived in the Promised Land?
What about the dead sea scrolls. They are from 2-1 bc.
Offcouse the language isn?t exatly the same but it existed that time.
And maybe it had another name.
But to assume that its a brand new language seems wrong. A new name maybe yes.I want to know Do you also not think that Jesus in AQ isn?t Jesus in NT?
As I read AQ he must be the same (3.45) when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near .
And Jesus lived 2000 years ago, and his mother Mary wasn?t around the time of Moses.
Even according to the Old Testament, Moses, Maryam and Aron were contemporaries.
Maryam/Mary as I know is only in NT. So I assume you thinking of another Mary/Maryam.
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Salaam Nomad
No hard feelings. handshake But I think I told you before that english ain?t my best (I?m Danish). So please dont mind my spelling and so. I?may seem a bit retared but I maybe I ain?t that much ;D
told you 5 times that i take only ALQURAN ,,,,,and NO BIBBLE because bible today is not complete, not the word of God... UNDERSTAND or i need to make a 6th post to enlight you
?Thats allright I got that..
What I was saying was that AQ confirming OT. I know it might been corupted. But anyway its not all just fake.
My point is that if we take the saing in AQ as our standard, it also mean that we have to accept that God accept the jewish as his chosen people and he sendt plenty profets to them (because they are his choosen)
Anyway its like you are dening all these scriptures from the jewish.I also belive in sience and Gods word (like you I assume).
But as you to come to the conclution and reject it all. That I think is wrong.
its like you want to throw everything away wish dosn?t fit to your belive in first place.
When you do like that you have to make a lot of new explanations (ex of the profets). And maybe you make some wrong conclutions.
As I see it . Maryan (in AQ) dosn?t fit acording do the story of Jesus. So you have to Reject Jesus. But that can be a wrong conclution. In AQ Jesus is the same as in NT (Se post to Pazuzu)Once again sorry for my school-boy english.. (dont judge me of that) &
Peace
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Salaam Jafar
Nice to hear.
Thanks a lot for concerning..I been looking long time for someone who share my belief. So I was glad to find this place/site.
But this article shocked me quite because I thought it was the general opinion.
Thanks againPeace
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Maryam/Mary as I know is only in NT. So I assume you thinking of another Mary/Maryam.
Here's a few passages from the OT
Miriam leading the victory dance after the drowning of Pharaoh
For the horses of Pharaoh went with his chariots and his horsemen into the sea, and the LORD brought back the waters of the sea upon them. But the children of Israel went on dry in the midst of the sea. Then Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took the timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. (Exodus - 1520)
Miriam is stricken with leprosy because she had angered the Lord
Then the LORD came down in the pillar of cloud and stood the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam. And they both went forward.......And when the cloud departed from above the tabernacle, suddenly Miriam leprous, as snow. Then Aaron turned toward Miriam, and there she was, a leper. (Numbers - 12 4-12)
The children of Amram
The children of Amram Aaron, Moses, and Miriam. And the sons of Aaron Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar. (1 Chronicles - 63)
So which Miriam is being mentioned here? Is this the mother of Jesus who died in Jerusalem 2000 years ago?
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Salaam Pazuzu
Thanks for reply
So which Miriam is being mentioned here? Is this the mother of Jesus who died in Jerusalem 2000 years ago?
I get your point.
Yoy are right there are two Miriam in the Bible.Let look on what we have
There are two Miriam in the Bible one in OT and and in NTThe same two also is mentionet in AQ. (Thats what I see)
If we take 19.29 they call the 2. Mary for sister of Aron. I agree this doesn?t fit because she is not the sister of Aron (biological)
And it could let us to the conclution that there is only the same Miriam.I thought about it a lot and I came to this conclution
Lets look at the passage in the context
Mary has given birth as an unmarrid women an she is in sorrow and confused. She afraid that her people will see her as a hore (19.20)
She know that God is accepting her, but what about her family/people.
She?s afraid to meet them. God is hearing her prayers so what happens is this
When she go to meet them, they call her sister of Aron. But why?
Its to lift her up and show her that they accept her.
When you want to adress somebody in a nice way, you dont call her sister af her own sister but you go like a level up.Let me give you an example that came to my mind
My name is Jacob.
Imagine I am acused for doing something wrong. Let say my freind heard that I was sleeping with his wife. (God forbid)
My friend dont belive in this gossip, and he want to show to me.
I have to go and meet him, what could he say to tell that he still my friend
God could make him say (because he know I?m a beliver) Jacob son of Isac. I know you not a bad man. Your mother is a good women too.
Actally I cant imagen anything that could bring us closer together than that statement.
Should he have called me brother of Lars (my brother). No that woudn?t have the same effect.
Its a nice way of adressing people when you play a little with the persons name.The statement (Sister of Aron) is not God?s own, but its peoples. This statement is like comming from God, becauce its showing the people accepting Miriam.
Also we should see it as a people statement and not Gods own.Peace
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Slaam
Well i think brother Pazuzu and I explain to you the best way possible. what we prentendo to say, unleast me is that NT is absolutly a fabrication.. Jesus from Palestine sun of Joseph the carpenter is not in AQ, theres not 2 marys in AQ, theres only one Maryam, sister of Musa and Aron, and these same Maryam is mother os ISA the messiah .
these Prophetic facts were adapted by St.Paul to Jesus the rebel of Palestine, wichj has nothing to do with God messangers...
HE was like the che guevara from those days, who rebelled to help the poor so its the mixture of Real Isa Arab History with Jesus the carpenter ffrom Palestine, its 2 Histories in one what they make in NT and is the major Falacy ands corruption wich we can read..its a fabrication from Sionist Dreamers and templars
For me AQ is very clear in these aspect, So AQ WORD Of GOD... Bible compilation of several man?s Histories, toughts, etcDont worry abou not having best english, i dont have perfect english also
Well i must confessed i used to have you prespectives that was a Holy Land in Palestine... but after reading History, Geo, etc ..well its hard to belive in it now... thats the perfect sionist dream and the focus and reason for stupid wars and untolerance..) sunSalaam my friend, handshake pr