The Bible Is Not The Tawrat (Torah) & Injil (Gospel)
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Salaam sun
3443
Transliteration
Wa-itha tutla AAalayhim ayatunabayyinatin qaloo ma hatha illarajulun yureedu an yasuddakum AAamma kanayaAAbudu abaokum waqaloo ma hathailla ifkun muftaran waqala allatheenakafaroo lilhaqqi lamma jaahum in hathailla sihrun mubeenSahih International
And when our verses are recited to them as clear evidences, they say, "This is not but a man who wishes to avert you from that which your fathers were worshipping." And they say, "This is not except a lie invented." And those who disbelieve say of the truth when it has come to them, "This is not but obvious magic."Pickthall
And if Our revelations are recited unto them in plain terms, they say This is naught else than a man who would turn you away from what your fathers used to worship; and they say This is naught else than an invented lie. Those who disbelieve say of the truth when it reacheth them This is naught else than mere magic.Dr. Ghali
And when Our ayat (Verses, signs) are recited to them, supremely evident (signs), they say, "In no way is this (anything) except a man who is willing to bar you from what your fathers were worshiping." And they say, "In no way is this (anything) except fabricated falsehood." And the ones who disbelieved say to the Truth, as soon as it has come to them, "Decidedly this is (nothing) except an evident sorcery."Salaam pr
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As-Salaam Alaikum,
I really can't believe this is still being debated after so much evidence has been given.
The is absolutely no proof of what you are saying and quoting here.
No proof? Are you serious?
"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby." - al-Qur'an 279
What better proof do you need than the words of Allah themself? Also consider this, we agree that Isa (pbuh) and his disciples spoke Aramiac right? Well all of the New Testament's manuscripts are in Greek, a language Isa (pbuh) and his disciples never spoke. How then can you continue to believe that the New Testament is the original Injil? Also, most of the NT was written by Paul who is never mentioned in the Qur'an. Why is he never mentioned if we are to believe in his writings?
You keep accusing people of conspiracy theories and contradicting themselves yet you are the only one contradicting yourself. May Allah give you guidance.
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Salaam, ive got a task for you sun
only From the Arabic Qur'an
Get me out of the Qur'an that there was a cross and people was going to crucify Isa...nothing.
Get me out of the Qur'an that Moses had the Torah....nothing.
Get me out of the Qur'an that history is a divine truth...nothing.
Get me out of the Qur'an that the bible and Torah is the same of today...nothing.
Get me out of the Qur'an the real explanation of the word "The book"...This is mistranslation of the word "the book" to be compatible with history...we are still affected by the history and the hadiths yet we should expel the history and the hadiths from our selves.Now for a bigger bomb...Why did god in the Qur'an mention that this book is written by an Arabian TONGUE (not language be careful)...Didn't people of the Arabian desert know that they are speaking Arabic? did they need from god to know that there tongue is speaking Arabic? did God need that?Then there must be something else intentioned from this verse...what about the many contradictions of the language grammar and the grammar (if it is grammar) of the Qur'an???Still unknown errors? no it is not an unknown error it is just, we don't want to face it...yes the Arabic language is NOT the language of the Qur'an...Qur'an's language is an Arabian tongue that no one did explain it till now...
I can explain more but will take time, go search in the Arabic Qur'an if you can the word Moses with the Torah....there is nothing...Moses had "the book" which book? The same book God said that it's contents is included in the Qur'an...The same book the man who had some knowledge from it transported the Queen balkees to Solomon in no time..
Same book Isa knew about it with the Engeel and the Torah....the Engeel and Torah is NOT the Bible and Torah of today...Read the Torah and read the Bible of today...Specially the Torah, after reading the Qur'an...it is just a translation of the content of the Qur'an but a fake one...And since the content of the Qur'an is the book, the book was with Moses and it descended upon humanity...here you have the real deal...These people made up new religions from the Book which has the same content of the Qur'an...
History can't be much dirty? no it can...
"People where one nation God sent prophets as heralds and warnings and he descended with them the book with righteous to judge (judge hear is returning on the book not the prophets) between people in what they became different in it and And none differed over the Scripture except those who were given it - after the clear proofs came to them - out of jealous animosity among themselves. And Allah guided those who believed to the truth concerning that over which they had differed, by His permission. And Allah guides whom He wills to a straight path.
This is the real history... with no elfs hobbits or unicorns peace
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No proof? Are you serious?
"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby." - al-Qur'an 279
What better proof do you need than the words of Allah themself? Also consider this, we agree that Isa (pbuh) and his disciples spoke Aramiac right? Well all of the New Testament's manuscripts are in Greek, a language Isa (pbuh) and his disciples never spoke. How then can you continue to believe that the New Testament is the original Injil? Also, most of the NT was written by Paul who is never mentioned in the Qur'an. Why is he never mentioned if we are to believe in his writings?
You keep accusing people of conspiracy theories and contradicting themselves yet you are the only one contradicting yourself. May Allah give you guidance.
Prove that your quote is specifically talking about the authors of prior scripture, specifically in light of 33, which confirms God as the true author of the Torah and Gospel. What you are doing is called prooftexting.
Jerome attested that the manuscript for Matthew's gospel was written in Hebrew. Even the greek text of Matthew is full of Hebrew idiom and grammar structures. There's also the Aramaic Peshitta.
I believe the Injil (from the GREEK WORD euangel "good news" is the message of Jesus, not necessarily the New Testament wholesale. The Hebrew followers of Jesus, the Evyonim, considered Paul a false prophet and rejected his writings.
You and I have already discussed this, yet you continue to believe to your own hurt that ridiculous forgeries found at Hag Hammadi have something to do with the gospel. Want to know why those texts weren't admitted into the canon? Most of them weren't even written yet. But believe whatever you want.
Salaam, ive got a task for you sun
only From the Arabic Qur'an
Get me out of the Qur'an that there was a cross and people was going to crucify Isa...nothing.
Get me out of the Qur'an that Moses had the Torah....nothing.
Get me out of the Qur'an that history is a divine truth...nothing.
Get me out of the Qur'an that the bible and Torah is the same of today...nothing.
Get me out of the Qur'an the real explanation of the word "The book"...This is mistranslation of the word "the book" to be compatible with history...we are still affected by the history and the hadiths yet we should expel the history and the hadiths from our selves.Get me out of the Quran that I should wipe my ass, or be on time for work, or exercise, or anything else that is plain common sense. Your "task" is a ridiculous waste of time
Same book Isa knew about it with the Engeel and the Torah....the Engeel and Torah is NOT the Bible and Torah of today...Read the Torah and read the Bible of today...Specially the Torah, after reading the Qur'an...it is just a translation of the content of the Qur'an but a fake one...And since the content of the Qur'an is the book, the book was with Moses and it descended upon humanity...here you have the real deal...These people made up new religions from the Book which has the same content of the Qur'an....
Ok, simple. Then explain away the handwriting analysis and radiometric dating done on the ancient manuscripts of the Torah and gospels THAT ARE THE SAME AS THE ONES WE HAVE TODAY that date centuries before the Quran. If what you are saying is true, then there should not exist a copy of the Torah and gospels that is older than the Quran. Similarly, there should be copies of the Quran that are older than Mohammed. Tell me where they are. Bring your proof, and not silly conjecture.
-Joel
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Salamun Alaikum to All,
Quote from MM - Ok, simple. Then explain away the handwriting analysis and radiometric dating done on the ancient manuscripts of the Torah and gospels THAT ARE THE SAME AS THE ONES WE HAVE TODAY that date centuries before the Quran. If what you are saying is true, then there should not exist a copy of the Torah and gospels that is older than the Quran. Similarly, there should be copies of the Quran that are older than Mohammed. Tell me where they are. Bring your proof, and not silly conjecture.
Questions
- Who were the people who were present during the canonization of the NT in 375 AD? Are they Isrealites.
- In what language?
- During the convocation, did they confabulated with GOD?
- Did GOD mentioned in the original manuscript or most ancient copies or ancient copies of the Gospel that HE with HIS wisdom that he will replace the original copies or most ancient copies of the Gospel with the NT sometime later? If there is, please quote,
Thank you in advance and Peace
Sidi -
Peace Benigno
You are absolutely right but
The people used to be one community when GOD sent the prophets as bearers of good news, as well as warners. He sent down with them the scripture, bearing the truth, to judge among the people in their disputes. Ironically, those who received the scripture were the ones who rejected any new scripture, despite clear proofs given to them. This is due to jealousy on their part. GOD guides those who believe to the truth that is disputed by all others, in accordance with His will. GOD guides whoever wills in a straight path.How do they reject? By changing the words and the language used.
The late Bro Ahmad Deedat quotes, from a Christians source, in his book The Choice - The Quran or The Bible - pg 20.
It is hard for us to realized that when the books of the bible were originially written, there was no printing press to multiply the copies. Each copy must be made slowly and laboriously by hand. Under these conditions it was inevitable that many ancient books should be lost. This largely account to the fact that ALL the original manuscripts of the bible have perished.
I understand what you are saying and I am not disputing that. What I am saying is the Koran is fully aware of this but this what God has chosen to be handed to mankind. There seems to be a thinking that the Koran must be talking about some other Torah and Injeel but this is not the case at all. Muslims I think expected to find a Koran like scripture from the Torah and Injel but this is not the case. Jesus refered to the same Torah as the one we have and yet he said repeatedly that he came to confirm the Torah. Jesus attacked the Talmud and so did the Koran. Especially the aspects of the Talmud that violated the Torah commandments. Just like we attack the Sunnah that violated=s the teachings of the Koran. The Torah and Gospel are not God's words but God's books. Jesus however was God's word. Muhammad was not given the same revelation as Jesus as Jesus himself was the Koran. Each prophets had their own revelations. Only Muhammad was given God's word as a book.
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As-Salaam Alaikum,
I really can't believe this is still being debated after so much evidence has been given.
No proof? Are you serious?
"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby." - al-Qur'an 279
What better proof do you need than the words of Allah themself? Also consider this, we agree that Isa (pbuh) and his disciples spoke Aramiac right? Well all of the New Testament's manuscripts are in Greek, a language Isa (pbuh) and his disciples never spoke. How then can you continue to believe that the New Testament is the original Injil? Also, most of the NT was written by Paul who is never mentioned in the Qur'an. Why is he never mentioned if we are to believe in his writings?
You keep accusing people of conspiracy theories and contradicting themselves yet you are the only one contradicting yourself. May Allah give you guidance.
If you read my article I have talked about this verse. You need to read the verses before it and after it.
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I understand what you are saying and I am not disputing that. What I am saying is the Koran is fully aware of this but this what God has chosen to be handed to mankind. There seems to be a thinking that the Koran must be talking about some other Torah and Injeel but this is not the case at all. Muslims I think expected to find a Koran like scripture from the Torah and Injel but this is not the case. Jesus refered to the same Torah as the one we have and yet he said repeatedly that he came to confirm the Torah. Jesus attacked the Talmud and so did the Koran. Especially the aspects of the Talmud that violated the Torah commandments. Just like we attack the Sunnah that violated=s the teachings of the Koran. The Torah and Gospel are not God's words but God's books. Jesus however was God's word. Muhammad was not given the same revelation as Jesus as Jesus himself was the Koran. Each prophets had their own revelations. Only Muhammad was given God's word as a book.
But the Qur'an we have it today. We do not have Isa today, that is if Isa is the same as Jesus, and that is very open to question.
Salaam
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Salamun Alaikum to All,
Questions
- Who were the people who were present during the canonization of the NT in 375 AD? Are they Isrealites.
- In what language?
- During the convocation, did they confabulated with GOD?
- Did GOD mentioned in the original manuscript or most ancient copies or ancient copies of the Gospel that HE with HIS wisdom that he will replace the original copies or most ancient copies of the Gospel with the NT sometime later? If there is, please quote,
Thank you in advance and Peace
SidiDoesn't matter. According to 33, it was God who sent them down. Your concern is with the process of how it was sent down, because it was different than revelation of Quran. But if you believe the Quran, you have no real choice to accept the inspiration of Torah and Gospel. What we have today is the same as what was present at the time of Mohammed.
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Salaam sun
You can read 33 in AQ and read Bible and fullfill your blind wishes, but if you read all MAryam and Isa Chapters and forget that forgeries from Bible maybe you you will get into too something...
Im a Msulim , i take only AQ, taking bible to cnheck AQ is absurd and no sense, that i cal IBIBLeSSSalaam
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Salaam sun
You can read 33 in AQ and read Bible and fullfill your blind wishes, but if you read all MAryam and Isa Chapters and forget that forgeries from Bible maybe you you will get into too something...
Im a Msulim , i take only AQ, taking bible to cnheck AQ is absurd and no sense, that i cal IBIBLeSSSalaam
Please give us your exegesis of 541-49, thank you.
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by MM Doesn't matter. According to 33, it was God who sent them down. Your concern is with the process of how it was sent down, because it was different than revelation of Quran. But if you believe the Quran, you have no real choice to accept the inspiration of Torah and Gospel. What we have today is the same as what was present at the time of Mohammed.
AQ - 0303 is ABSOLUTE. There is no question about it. My question is when the NT comes into existence?
What is wrong with your logic?
Do you have another book to uphold?
In it, do you find anything you want?
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I never said anything about the New Testament. I said the GOSPEL. The message of Jesus the Messiah, otherwise known in the Quran as Isa al Masih.
AQ - 0303 is ABSOLUTE. There is no question about it. My question is when the NT comes into existence?
What is wrong with your logic?
Do you have another book to uphold?
In it, do you find anything you want?
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Please give us your exegesis of 541-49, thank you.
THIS. )
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By Hoppean - Please give us your exegesis of 541-49, thank you.
The Law stipulated in the ORIGINAL Torah & ORIGINAL Gospel is still applicable as according to AQ 0543-49 and read the Quranic verses below.
O you who believe, you shall embrace total submission; do not follow the steps of Satan, for he is your most ardent enemy.
The only religion approved by GOD is "Submission". Ironically, those who have received the scripture are the ones who dispute this fact, despite the knowledge they have received, due to jealousy. For such rejectors of GOD's revelations, GOD is most strict in reckoning.
AQ If they argue with you, then say, "I have simply submitted myself to GOD; I and those who follow me." You shall proclaim to those who received the scripture, as well as those Gentiles, "Would you submit?" If they submit, then they have been guided, but if they turn away, your sole mission is to deliver this message. GOD is Seer of all people.
AQ Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who (1) believe in GOD and (2) believe in the Last Day, and (3) lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
AQ Do not accept anything that you yourself cannot ascertain. You are given the hearing, the sight and the mind in order to examine and verify
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I never said anything about the New Testament. I said the GOSPEL. The message of Jesus the Messiah, otherwise known in the Quran as Isa al Masih.
So, ?Where is the Gospell? Spell it out very very clearly and for idiots, beacause otherwise we seem to be assisting to a moving posts festival, where what we are talking about keeps moving all the time, or shapeshifting or some weird happenings.
Salaam
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As-Salaam Alaikum,
I'm not even going to entertain this topic anymore after this. Clear evidence is given in my OP along with the others who posted evidence. Arguing against the matter now is a result of a few strangely deciding to hold onto a book that has been proven to be written by men.
Salamun Alaikum to All,
Questions
- Who were the people who were present during the canonization of the NT in 375 AD? Are they Isrealites.
- In what language?
- During the convocation, did they confabulated with GOD?
- Did GOD mentioned in the original manuscript or most ancient copies or ancient copies of the Gospel that HE with HIS wisdom that he will replace the original copies or most ancient copies of the Gospel with the NT sometime later? If there is, please quote,
Thank you in advance and Peace
SidiThese points were valid ones yet never addressed, they were met with a "it doesn't matter" response lol. I couldn't even get a genuine response of why the Gospels are in Greek when Isa (pbuh) spoke Aramaic. May Allah give us all guidance.