The Bible Is Not The Tawrat (Torah) & Injil (Gospel)
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Do you think that i am joking with you. Is this forum a place for people to joke around?
I never say that the Torah is fabricated. In fact the Jewish law still stands AQ-06146 AND AQ-06154, which states that it was a complete book. I did mentioned that the gospel was incomplete or fabricated.
I understand very well of the verses 0541-49.
Explain to me
1-0323 & 0444 - Who are these people who were given "The Portion of The Book"
2-0253-Explain "izh" and "kitab", what kitab was GOD refering to?
The problem here is that people are expecting a Quran like scripture from the previous scriptures and because they don't find the previous scriptures are like that they think it is not valid. You know millions of people follow the Torah and Gospel, in fact probably billions. They are scriptures that have insired many men and women towards God's path. It's was those scriptures contain that is important.
28.48-54 But (now), when the Truth has come to them from Ourselves, they say, "Why are not (Signs) sent to him, like those which were sent to Moses?" Do they not then reject (the Signs) which were formerly sent to Moses? They say "Two kinds of sorcery, each assisting the other!" And they say "For us, we reject all (such things)!" Say "Then bring ye a Book from Allah, which is a better guide than either of them, that I may follow it! (do), if ye are truthful!" But if they hearken not to thee, know that they only follow their own lusts and who is more astray than one who follow his own lusts, devoid of guidance from Allah. for Allah guides not people given to wrong-doing. Now have We caused the Word to reach them themselves, in order that they may receive admonition. Those to whom We sent the Book before this,- they do believe in this (revelation) And when it is recited to them, they say "We believe therein, for it is the Truth from our Lord indeed we have been Muslims (bowing to Allah.s Will) from before this. Twice will they be given their reward, for that they have persevered, that they avert Evil with Good, and that they spend (in charity) out of what We have given them
The Koran does not seperate between itself and the previous scriptures because they all contain God's commands and the prophet's teachings.
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The problem here is that people are expecting a Quran like scripture from the previous scriptures and because they don't find the previous scriptures are like that they think it is not valid. You know millions of people follow the Torah and Gospel, in fact probably billions. They are scriptures that have insired many men and women towards God's path. It's was those scriptures contain that is important.
THIS. Previous scriptures are a different style of writing, but ultimately the same message from the same God. I came to believe in the inspiration of the Quran by trying to disprove it in comparison to the Bible.
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Peace Bigmo
The problem here is that people are expecting a Quran like scripture from the previous scriptures and because they don't find the previous scriptures are like that they think it is not valid. You know millions of people follow the Torah and Gospel, in fact probably billions. They are scriptures that have insired many men and women towards God's path. It's was those scriptures contain that is important.
AQ-1736 Do not accept anything that you yourself cannot ascertain. You are given the hearing, the sight and the mind in order to examine and verify.
Even with The Quran you are to verify. I will try to explain 0544 to 0547, which are definition, it is up to you to verify. If you think that I am wrong, correct me.
First Portion of THE BOOK mentioned in 0689 that was given to 16 of the 18 Prophets
We have sent down the Torah, containing guidance and light. Judge by it the prophets, those who had submitted, those who were Jewish and the rabbis and the priests, with which they were entrusted of GOD's scripture, and they were witness to it. Do not fear human beings; you shall fear Me and do not trade away My revelations for a cheap price. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the disbelievers.- The 1st portion of the Book was sent to all people - The people of Noah, Hud, Saleh, Abraham, Lot up to Moses.
- New directives - The Haj ritual was to be carried out as per info from the Quran 02125 to 127, 0396 to 97 and 2226 to 31. This directives were given to Pro. Abraham.
- Prove to me from The Torah perspective , that the haj ritual is stipulated in it. Tell me where.
Second Portion of The Book - given to Pro Moses, 1 of the 18 prophets mentioned in 0689 And we decreed for them in it that the life for the life, the eye for the eye, the nose for the nose, the ear for the ear, the tooth for the tooth, and an equivalent injury for any injury. If one forfeits what is due to him as a charity, it will atone for his sins. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the unjust.
- Second Portion of The Book was sent to Pro Moses for the children of Isreal and also the believers of the people of the Pharoah.
- New directives were added and that is the Criterion - AQ-0253 & 2148
- 0543 proves that the Torah prevails during the era of Pro Muhammad
Third Portion of The Book - The Gospel given to Pro. Jesus - 1 of the 18 prophets mentioned Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming what was before him, The Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming what is between his hand, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.
The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked.
- The Gospel was given to the children of Isreal as Prophet Jesus was sent to the Children of Isreal - AQ-0349
- The Gospel was The Word of GOD - 04171
- Prove to me that The Gospel prevails during the era of Pro. Muhammad as The Torah was.
*The Torah was never mentioned as a Book as far as The Quran is concern. It is a part of The Book that GOD sent after Pro Abraham.
Peace
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Sidi,
I'm not sure what the point is in claiming that there are portions of the book based on the chronology of 544-547. But I will address two of the questions/points that you make here.
- Prove to me from The Torah perspective , that the haj ritual is stipulated in it. Tell me where.
Exodus 3423 - Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.
Deuteronomy 1616 - Three times a year all your males shall appear before the LORD your God at the place that he will choose at the Feast of Unleavened Bread, at the Feast of Weeks, and at the Feast of Booths. They shall not appear before the LORD empty-handed.
What would be interesting for someone such as Layth to do would be to see if the three feasts of Israel mentioned here fall within the months of hajj in the Quran.
- Prove to me that The Gospel prevails during the era of Pro. Muhammad as The Torah was.
546 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah. And We gave him the Gospel, in it is a guidance and a light, and authenticating what was present with him of the Torah, and a guidance and a lesson for the righteous.
547 And let the people of the Gospel judge with what God has sent down in it. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.I would think that it is referred to as a "guidance and light" and a "guidance and lesson for the righteous" would be enough. But then there is the admonition for the people of the gospel (still waiting for someone to give me an Arabic etymology of "injeel" to disprove my assertion that it is a loan word from the Greek) to judge with it. If I am right, and "injeel" is a loan word from the Greek for "good news", then the "people of the injeel" is ANYONE who accepts the good news of God's revelation and guidance.
-Joel
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Peace Bigmo
AQ-1736 Do not accept anything that you yourself cannot ascertain. You are given the hearing, the sight and the mind in order to examine and verify.
Even with The Quran you are to verify. I will try to explain 0544 to 0547, which are definition, it is up to you to verify. If you think that I am wrong, correct me.
First Portion of THE BOOK mentioned in 0689 that was given to 16 of the 18 Prophets
We have sent down the Torah, containing guidance and light. Judge by it the prophets, those who had submitted, those who were Jewish and the rabbis and the priests, with which they were entrusted of GOD's scripture, and they were witness to it. Do not fear human beings; you shall fear Me and do not trade away My revelations for a cheap price. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the disbelievers.- The 1st portion of the Book was sent to all people - The people of Noah, Hud, Saleh, Abraham, Lot up to Moses.
- New directives - The Haj ritual was to be carried out as per info from the Quran 02125 to 127, 0396 to 97 and 2226 to 31. This directives were given to Pro. Abraham.
- Prove to me from The Torah perspective , that the haj ritual is stipulated in it. Tell me where.
Second Portion of The Book - given to Pro Moses, 1 of the 18 prophets mentioned in 0689 And we decreed for them in it that the life for the life, the eye for the eye, the nose for the nose, the ear for the ear, the tooth for the tooth, and an equivalent injury for any injury. If one forfeits what is due to him as a charity, it will atone for his sins. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the unjust.
- Second Portion of The Book was sent to Pro Moses for the children of Isreal and also the believers of the people of the Pharoah.
- New directives were added and that is the Criterion - AQ-0253 & 2148
- 0543 proves that the Torah prevails during the era of Pro Muhammad
Third Portion of The Book - The Gospel given to Pro. Jesus - 1 of the 18 prophets mentioned Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming what was before him, The Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming what is between his hand, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.
The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked.
- The Gospel was given to the children of Isreal as Prophet Jesus was sent to the Children of Isreal - AQ-0349
- The Gospel was The Word of GOD - 04171
- Prove to me that The Gospel prevails during the era of Pro. Muhammad as The Torah was.
*The Torah was never mentioned as a Book as far as The Quran is concern. It is a part of The Book that GOD sent after Pro Abraham.
Peace
But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have the Torah before them?- Therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) people of faith. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 43)
2.41 And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.
2.89 And when there comes to them a Book from God, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognized, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith.
2.91 When it is said to them, ?Believe in what God Hath sent down, ?they say, ?We believe in what was sent down to us? yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say ?Why then have ye slain the prophets of Allah in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe??
The term the Koran uses is "bayn aydeehim" meaning between their hands. What they have possession of. What is with them. Now the question is is these scriptures the Koran is talking about any different than the scriptures the Jews have today?
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Peace Maverick,
I'm not sure what the point is in claiming that there are portions of the book based on the chronology of 544-547. But I will address two of the questions/points that you make here.
0544-47 is a definition with regards to The Book that was sent to mankind. My point is that GOD, with HIS wisdom, sent from Pro Noah to Pro Jesus THE BOOK mentioned in 0689, which was a canon comprising of The Torah and The Gospel and that The Torah was a Portion of the Book if it is without The Gospel. The Torah is complete at its own level.
I would think that it is referred to as a "guidance and light" and a "guidance and lesson for the righteous" would be enough.
I do believe that there are some similarities between Pro Jesus and Pro Muhammad with regards to inspiration that was sent to them. The only difference is that Jesus was given the inspiration from a young age. Jesus was the Word of GOD - guidance and light and lesson for the righteous. I believe that his desiple might have recorded this guidance, but the question is did he complete his mission before his demise? From the Quranic perspective, it seems that he did not. If thats the case, is it not that guidance and light incomplete? And is that the reason why The Quran refered The Torah as stipulated below
Have you noted those who were given part of the scripture, and how they are invited to uphold this scripture of GOD, and apply it to their own lives, then some of them turn away in aversion?
which has a corelation with
Why do they ask you to judge among them, when they have the Torah, containing GOD's law, and they chose to disregard it? They are not believers.I am not a linguistic but I know that The Injeel which Jesus spoke was in Aramaic and Aramaic derives from Arabia. It was the Greek who copied the word.
*The Torah was never mentioned as a Book as far as The Quran is concern. It is a part of The Book that GOD sent after Pro Abraham.
From the above which I quote and I like to correct myself that The Torah was refered to as a book as stated by the Quran 0287 and 1701
Peace
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The term the Koran uses is "bayn aydeehim" meaning between their hands. What they have possession of. What is with them. Now the question is is these scriptures the Koran is talking about any different than the scriptures the Jews have today?
The Torah (Law/Instruction in Hebrew) is the Ten Commandment..
And not the "Torah" as we know today.. by definition...Now the name 'Torah' refer to compilation of "Five Books (which they say) Written By Moses".
Oddly enough although those books are said to be written by Moses, there are story within regarding Moses death.. hmmm Moses is quite 'magnificent' to be able to write a story regarding his own death. (sarcastic mode on)
The 'original Torah' a.k.a Ten Commandments supposedly being written in the stone tablet which went missing.
And theoretically it should be written in 'iconic script' such as the egyptian hieroglyph, given the 'israelites' has not yet adopted "Consonant based Phoenician script" during that time..When the Quran refer to "Torah" (instruction) it meant the "Ten Commandments".
When the Quran refer to Zaboor, "The Book of David" it meant the "Psalms".Salam / Peace
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The 'original Torah' a.k.a Ten Commandments supposedly being written in the stone tablet which went missing.
And theoretically it should be written in 'iconic script' such as the egyptian hieroglyph, given the 'israelites' has not yet adopted "Consonant based Phoenician script" during that time..As-Salaam Alaikum brother,
Indeed! The Ten Commandments were originally written in hieroglyphs, and there were originally more than ten of them!
http//anu-world.com/id22.html
Good job acknowledging this, whether intentionally or unintentionally.
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As-Salaam Alaikum brother,
Indeed! The Ten Commandments were originally written in hieroglyphs, and there were originally more than ten of them!
http//anu-world.com/id22.html
Good job acknowledging this, whether intentionally or unintentionally.
Of course.. it's logically natural for it to be written in some form of iconic script / hieroglyph..
Although some people also thought that it was originally written in Arabic script! D with Southern Arabia dialect.. rotfl rotfl
Thanks for the link.. will investigate further later on..
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The 'original Torah' a.k.a Ten Commandments supposedly being written in the stone tablet which went missing.
Salaam,
If you are referring to what was given to Musa was written in the stone tablet, it was not nope
7144
7144 He said "O Moses, I have chosen you over the people with My message and My words; so take what I have given you and be of the thankful."7145
7145 And We wrote for him on the planks from all things a lesson, and detailing all things. Take it with strength and order your people to take the best from it. I will show you the abode of the wicked.Please note the Arabic word AlWaahin.
5412
5412 And We caused springs to gush out of the earth. Thus the waters met to a command which had been measured.5413
5413 And We carried him on that which was made of planks and nails.This was about Noah, he was not bored on ark made of stone tablets nope no, no... surely not nope D
May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhan -
The Torah (Law/Instruction in Hebrew) is the Ten Commandment..
And not the "Torah" as we know today.. by definition...Now the name 'Torah' refer to compilation of "Five Books (which they say) Written By Moses".
Oddly enough although those books are said to be written by Moses, there are story within regarding Moses death.. hmmm Moses is quite 'magnificent' to be able to write a story regarding his own death. (sarcastic mode on)
The 'original Torah' a.k.a Ten Commandments supposedly being written in the stone tablet which went missing.
And theoretically it should be written in 'iconic script' such as the egyptian hieroglyph, given the 'israelites' has not yet adopted "Consonant based Phoenician script" during that time..When the Quran refer to "Torah" (instruction) it meant the "Ten Commandments".
When the Quran refer to Zaboor, "The Book of David" it meant the "Psalms".Salam / Peace
Psalms are David's poetry so your talk of Moses not writing the Torah is not relevant as the Koran never said he did. As far as the ten commandments these are what God gave Moses in tablet form. It is not accurate to say that the Torah is the ten commandments because the Koran clearly said "let them bring forth the Torah" and also said that prostration to the ground is found in the Torah.
Muhammad is the Messenger of God. Those who are with him are hard against the unbelievers merciful one to another. You see them bowing, prostrating, seeking blessing, bounty and good pleasure (of God). Their mark is on their faces, the trace of prostration. That is their likeness in the Torah, and their likeness in the Gospel as a seed that puts forth its shoot, and strengthens it, and it grows strong and rises straight upon its stalk, pleasing the sowers, that through them it may enrage the unbelievers. God has promised those of them who believe and do deeds of righteousness forgiveness and a mighty wage(4829)
Genesis 171-4 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me and be thou perfect. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 3 And Abram fell on his face and God talked with him, saying, 4 As for Me, behold, My covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
Deuteronomy 56-9 I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 7 Thou shalt have none other gods before Me. 8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth 9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them nor serve them...
Psalm 956 O come, let us worship and bow down let us kneel before the Lord our Maker.
Revelations 711-12 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Joshua 76-7 And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the Lord until eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads. 7 And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord God, wherefore hast Thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? Would to God we had been content, and dwelt on the other side of the Jordan!
Numbers 1620-22 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, saying, 21 Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. 22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt Thou be wroth with the all of the congregation?
Numbers 206 And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces and the glory of the Lord appeared unto them.
Matthew 2636-39 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gesthemane, and saith unto his disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. 37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be very sorrowful and heavy. 38 Then saith he unto them, my soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death; tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou Wilt.
Then the man bowed down and worshipped the Lord. (Genesis, 2426)
...So they sang praises with gladness and bowed their heads and worshipped. (2 Chronicles, 2930)
and I bowed down and worshiped the Lord. I praised the Lord?(Genesis, 244
.... Then the people bowed down and worshipped...did just what the Lord commanded Moses and Aaron. (Exodus, 1227-2
and they believed. And when they heard that the Lord was concerned about them and had seen their misery, they bowed down and worshipped. (Exodus, 431)
and bowed down...three times, with his face to the ground. (1 Samuel, 2041)
Ezra praised the Lord, the great God; and all the people lifted their hands and responded, "Amen! Amen!" Then they bowed down and worshipped the Lord with their faces to the ground. (Nehemiah, 86)
Abram bowed with his face touching the ground...(Genesis, 173)
When Abraham's servant heard what they said, he bowed down to the ground before the Lord. (Genesis, 2452)
Moses bowed to the ground at once and worshipped. (Exodus, 34
When Moses heard this, he fell facedown. (Numbers, 164)
the oracle of one who hears the words of God, who sees a vision from the Almighty, who falls prostrate, and whose eyes are opened. (Numbers, 244)
Then Joshua bowed to the ground in reverence...(Joshua, 514)
When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, "The Lord?He is God! The Lord?He is God!"(1 Kings, 1839)
when I bow down in the temple...may the Lord forgive your servant for this. (2 Kings, 51
they bowed low and fell prostrate before the Lord. (1 Chronicles, 2920)
they knelt on the pavement with their faces to the ground, and they worshipped and gave thanks to the Lord...(2 Chronicles, 73)
... the king and everyone present with him knelt down and worshipped... ordered... to praise the Lord. So they sang praises with gladness and bowed their heads and worshipped. (2 Chronicles, 2929-30)
Then he fell to the ground in worship and said ?Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised.? (Job, 120-21)
As fas as what Torah generally means it means the scriptures the Jews have and even the Jews someimes used the Torah to describe all the scriptures and not just the 5 books of Moses. These definitions are human definitions and change according to the times.
The earliest name for the first part of the Bible seems to have been "The Torah of Moses." This title, however, is found neither in the Torah itself, nor in the works of the pre-Exilic literary prophets. It appears in Joshua (831?32; 236) and Kings (I Kings 23; II Kings 146; 2325), but it cannot be said to refer there to the entire corpus. In contrast, there is every likelihood that its use in the post-Exilic works (Mal. 322; Dan. 911, 13; Ezra 32; 76; Neh. 81; II Chron. 2318; 3016) was intended to be comprehensive. Other early titles were "The Book of Moses" (Ezra 618; Neh. 131; II Chron. 3512; 254; cf. II Kings 146) and "The Book of the Torah" (Neh. 83) which seems to be a contraction of a fuller name, "The Book of the Torah of God" (Neh. 88, 18; 1029?30; cf. 93).
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah
The word "Torah" is a tricky one, because it can mean different things in different contexts. In its most limited sense, "Torah" refers to the Five Books of Moses Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. But the word "torah" can also be used to refer to the entire Jewish bible (the body of scripture known to non-Jews as the Old Testament and to Jews as the Tanakh or Written Torah), or in its broadest sense, to the whole body of Jewish law and teachings.
http//www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm