3:7 A MATTER OF PUNCTUATION MARKS. WHICH IS CORRECT?
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peace shuaib, kyle, all,
pm This Quran could not have been produced without God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and to give detail to the scripture in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.
this quran gives detail/clarification to al-kitab.
Wakas
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Peace be upon you Wakas,
Exactly. This reading is a guide to "al kitaab", they are not the same thing.
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Salams idolfree,
Well i think it's quite amazing how you were able to slickly avoid the main points of what I was saying. But as you suggest, I will have patience as you have patience with me.
Instead of going through all my previous points, I think I would rather go step by step... I see that you are entrenched in your thinking so deeply that it will be tough to get you to understand what I am saying.
why dont we start with this...
Well if you were able to explain one thing I think that would help...
- This is al-KITAAB within which there is NO DOUBT, a guidance...
If al-kitaab is merely the "book of life" how can this verse POSSIBLY make sense? I can tell you, my "book of life" is definitely not perfect... and certainly not a guidance for others. Nor is anyone else's "book of life" perfect or a guidance for me. What is your interpretation of this??
wassalam
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Peace be upon you Shuaib,
Well i think it's quite amazing how you were able to slickly avoid the main points of what I was saying. But as you suggest, I will have patience as you have patience with me.
Brother, I answered your post , point by point, how did I "slickly avoid" anything? D
Instead of going through all my previous points, I think I would rather go step by step... I see that you are entrenched in your thinking so deeply that it will be tough to get you to understand what I am saying.
Thats always a possibility, lets continue, point by point, I am certainly in agreement with that.
why dont we start with this...
Well if you were able to explain one thing I think that would help...
- This is al-KITAAB within which there is NO DOUBT, a guidance...
If al-kitaab is merely the "book of life" how can this verse POSSIBLY make sense?
Al kitaab is life itself. Life is based on LAWS that the God created. Do you have any doubt about the LAWS of the UNI-VERSE? Is there guidance in the LAWS of the universe? How has mankind created such things as airplanes, submarines, pyramids of giza? How has man brought together the knowledge to make calculus and algebra? How have we learned how to do heart transplants and find solutions to disease? There is no doubt that in the LAWS of LIFE there is guidance. The reading(quran) points us to the LAWS of Life, which are the Laws of the God. A sign points you in a direction, do not stay focused on the sign.
I can tell you, my "book of life" is definitely not perfect
The God did not say your life would be perfect, He said that there is guidance , without doubt, to be found in life.
... and certainly not a guidance for others
I seriously doubt that there is no guidance to be found in the story of your life. If there is guidance in Pharoahs life, in Abu Lahabs life, in the wife of Lot, and all those who did wrong, surely there is guidance to be found in one who strives to understand the God's message like you are here doing. Wouldn't you agree?
Nor is anyone else's "book of life" perfect or a guidance for me. What is your interpretation of this??
Was anyone on this planet "perfect"? Name this person. But guidance can be found in all of the God's creation, what to do and what not to do.
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Salam idolfree,
Very interesting ideas, and I agree on some things.
I do agree that there is guidance in this physical world. I agree that if you study this physical world you can also arrive at some conclusions like there must be a God, etc.
As far as LAWS, yes, this universe is bound by unchanging laws. And yes, these laws can also be discovered by examining life itself... but only through trial and error, as you can see in the history of mankind. Through trial and error, mankind could come to many of the SAME conclusions that the Quran brings us to.
BUT, that is the whole point. The Quran is a mercy upon us because it is trying to SAVE us the problem of millenia of trials and errors by telling us HOW to set up the perfect society... so that we DONT have to have countless societies destroyed because we just dont understand the laws that make it work.
That is why it says HUDAl-lil-MUTTAQEEN! A muttaqqi is someone who is trying to walk a narrow path of truth, surrounded on either side by dangerous thorns that can prick and hurt him if he wavers.
That is why, 22 is saying This al-kitaab is a GUIDANCE to those who want to save themselves from life's dangerous obstacles!
Using your "translations," who ISN'T following 22??? Christians, Jews, atheists, ALL of them look to science to guide the way nowadays, and all of them follow the laws they are taught through them. What was the purpose of the QURAN then???
22 is in NO WAY talking about the "book of life," also because NO ONE'S book of life (as you also said) is perfect or FREE FROM RAIB!!!
Was anyone on this planet "perfect"? Name this person.
No HUMAN BEINGS "book of life" is a guidance for ANYONE else.
But I see you are beginning to TWIST your words in order to accomodate your viewpoint. It used to be that you said kitaab refers to the book of ACTIONS accumulated by a person (i.e. every kitaab refers to a manmade HUMAN-created kitaab of deeds). NOW you are saying life ITSELF is a kitaab??? This is very slick wording and you are being quite the slippery fish with your terminology.
Now the universe is also kitaab???? And human beings book of deeds is also al-kitaab?? And the Quran is also kitaab??
wassalam
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Peace be upon you brother Shuiab,
Very interesting ideas, and I agree on some things.
I do agree that there is guidance in this physical world. I agree that if you study this physical world you can also arrive at some conclusions like there must be a God, etc.
Yes, we agree there. I think this is the process that all of the righteous take in the "abraham" stage of life, where we look at creation and finally realize there MUST be something greater who created it all for a purpose.
As far as LAWS, yes, this universe is bound by unchanging laws. And yes, these laws can also be discovered by examining life itself... but only through trial and error, as you can see in the history of mankind. Through trial and error, mankind could come to many of the SAME conclusions that the Quran brings us to.
Yes, that is why the righteous scribes write down the words of the "nabiyeen". So that mankind won't have to go through the same trial and error, but many of us do anyway, especially when that message gets corrupted and turned into a "religion". But then again, the God says that He is going to test us like He tested those before us.
BUT, that is the whole point. The Quran is a mercy upon us because it is trying to SAVE us the problem of millenia of trials and errors by telling us HOW to set up the perfect society... so that we DONT have to have countless societies destroyed because we just dont understand the laws that make it work.
Yes, the God's reading(quran) comes to POINT US in the right direction, but it is not restricted to the One book that people have given the title "QURAN" to. ANY teaching that teaches the truth is the God's reading"quran". The God's reading points us to the workings of LIFE(al kitaab)
That is why it says HUDAl-lil-MUTTAQEEN! A muttaqqi is someone who is trying to walk a narrow path of truth, surrounded on either side by dangerous thorns that can prick and hurt him if he wavers.
Absolutely, and people have walked that path WELL BEFORE this particular Book came into exsistence. There are "people of the Book" who do not follow the Book that has been wrongly titled "quran' that will have thier reward with thier Lord, and that is because the God' reading"quran" is not limited to one Book.
That is why, 22 is saying This al-kitaab is a GUIDANCE to those who want to save themselves from life's dangerous obstacles!
Of course there is guidance in TRUTH (God's reading), and there is guidance in life(al kitaab). The reading is part of LIFE(al kitaab). There is guidance in BOTH. For example, you ant to go to a seminar to learn microsoft windows. That seminar contains guidance for you, but so do the signs that lead you to the seminar.
Using your "translations," who ISN'T following 22??? Christians, Jews, atheists, ALL of them look to science to guide the way nowadays, and all of them follow the laws they are taught through them. What was the purpose of the QURAN then???
No way, most of mankind do not follow the signs thst Science points to. Look at all the cigarette smokers, all the homosexuals, all the murdererd, all the money hoarders, all the people that eat way too much meat all the opressors (mentally and physically), etc, etc, etc.
22 is in NO WAY talking about the "book of life," also because NO ONE'S book of life (as you also said) is perfect or FREE FROM RAIB!!!
(22) says that without doubt, there is guidance in LIFE(al kitaab). Now if you want to assert that NO ONE's LIFE can be used as an example, then what about the examples of "Noah, Abraham, Musa, Shuiab, Aaron, Isa, etc."? Aren't they described as "men like us"?
But I see you are beginning to TWIST your words in order to accomodate your viewpoint. It used to be that you said kitaab refers to the book of ACTIONS accumulated by a person (i.e. every kitaab refers to a manmade HUMAN-created kitaab of deeds). NOW you are saying life ITSELF is a kitaab??? This is very slick wording and you are being quite the slippery fish with your terminology.
Respected brother, I am not twisting my words, at times I am narrowing the discussion so I can explain. All of creation is from the God's WORD. That is why we find the term UNI(one) VERSE(word). The God only says "BE", and it becomes. EVERYTING is part of the BOOK(al kitaab), which is LIFE. Each of us have a part to play in this STORY. Depending on what part you play, you will recieve this "book" in your right or left hand when it is done. Please let me know if you see any inconsistency in my statement.
Now the universe is also kitaab????
Absolutely! Uni-Verse (one word), words make up a book. That is why we see the so called "initails" at the beginning of some chapters, they are called SIGNS. Letters make words, words make books.
And human beings book of deeds is also al-kitaab??
Yes, we are all characters in the Book, People of the Book.
And the Quran is also kitaab??
this book that people call "quran" is part of creation, therefore it is part of the book, the God says this;
(548 ) And We descended to you The Book(Life) with the truth , confirming to what (is) between his hands from The Book
That which is between his hands is FROM the Book(life).
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Salams all,
br zlatan, we will await your response.. if it takes time, it must be worth it.
br idolfree...
I have a problem with what you are saying. And when I say twisting words, I mean playing fast and loose with your own definitions. Being like a slippery fish meaning that you change the definitions of your terms to suit whatever point you make.
You have not given a coherent definition of al-kitaab. First, I thought your definition was straightforward... it was simply the book of our recorded actions. Each person will have an individual book of actions.
THAT, is an ENTIRELY separate thing from the physical world which you also call al-kitaab. Firstly, this definition of KITAAB is absolutely unwarranted and bizarre. WHY on earth would the physical universe be called kitaab? Sure, the things that play out in the physical universe can relate to and enter into our books of actions, BUT the universe itself cannot be called kitaab! Firstly, the Arabic TOTALLY does not warrant that meaning... and the Quran was revealed in Arabic for a reason, and the Arabic language has been preserved for a reason.
Since I've said it twice and you didn't understand, let me make it crystal clear
Definition of al-kitaab according to you
Book of each individuals accumulated actions
vs.
The physical universeThese are two, totally separate, MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE items. For you to mix the two seamlessly just shows your mentality. I feel like the only thing left to do is shake my hands at you... these 2 things are NOT the same. The physical universe and a human beings LIFE in the universe are NOT the same, they are 2 distinct things. SEPARATELY indentifiable, SEPARATE characteristics, SEPARATE ends. The physical world will END, our book of life is what is used to judge us. 2 TOTALLY separate COMPLETELY different things.
Yet you apparently effortlessly matter-of-factly blend the 2 seamlessly. I've heard a lot of interesting philosophical views in my time, and this is one of the most bizarre I have to say.
So i'll leave it at that for now... I won't even comment (I guess I already am) on your faulty translation of la RAIBA FIHI. We cannot advance in the discussion unless we get over this hump.
wassalam
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Salam brother Shuaib,
Thank you for providing a very good analysis of 37. I enjoyed reading it and I am now thinking about it.
You have not given a coherent definition of al-kitaab. First, I thought your definition was straightforward... it was simply the book of our recorded actions. Each person will have an individual book of actions.
THAT, is an ENTIRELY separate thing from the physical world which you also call al-kitaab. Firstly, this definition of KITAAB is absolutely unwarranted and bizarre. WHY on earth would the physical universe be called kitaab?
Brother, please have patience and see 21104 where the folding of the universe is described as the folding of "books" (plural).
Sure, the things that play out in the physical universe can relate to and enter into our books of actions, BUT the universe itself cannot be called kitaab! Firstly, the Arabic TOTALLY does not warrant that meaning...
If one looks at time as a record of our actions and at each individual entity, atom and creature as having a book, then indeed the sum of all the books would result in the universe we are experiencing.
and the Quran was revealed in Arabic for a reason, and the Arabic language has been preserved for a reason.
If anything, Arabic was preserved because of the great reading and not the other way around as many people claim. But even if Arabic was not preserved, we would still be able to understand the great reading like we understand manuscripts of many dead languages such as Aramaic.
Definition of al-kitaab according to you
Book of each individuals accumulated actions
vs.
The physical universeThese are two, totally separate, MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE items.
They are not seperate. Please read 1988-95. The whole seen and hidden universe is almost crumbling as I am writing this because of some individuals' action. This is how much our actions affect the universe.
For you to mix the two seamlessly just shows your mentality. I feel like the only thing left to do is shake my hands at you... these 2 things are NOT the same. The physical universe and a human beings LIFE in the universe are NOT the same, they are 2 distinct things. SEPARATELY indentifiable, SEPARATE characteristics, SEPARATE ends. The physical world will END, our book of life is what is used to judge us. 2 TOTALLY separate COMPLETELY different things.
Yet you apparently effortlessly matter-of-factly blend the 2 seamlessly. I've heard a lot of interesting philosophical views in my time, and this is one of the most bizarre I have to say.
So i'll leave it at that for now... I won't even comment (I guess I already am) on your faulty translation of la RAIBA FIHI. We cannot advance in the discussion unless we get over this hump.
We all make errors. I am not defending or attacking anybody. Our "din"/obligation should be "al-7aq"/the truth. That is how we advance. My only advice is to use patience.
With all best wishes and peace,
Ayman
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Salams Ayman,
thank you for your post. you know i do have to say that i think this is a great and active forum.
ok, thank you for your compliment on my analysis of 37. But for some reason, just like br idolfree, i dont think you actually agree with me even though you might think you do.
anyway, i will study the ayaat you have mentioned. on cursory glance i really dont even understand how you are using those ayaat to support your points but i will study them further. In fact 1988-95, did you misquote? I dont even see how that is relevant.
i just wanted to post a point that i am having an incredibly tough time getting across.
The universe is an inanimate creation... within it are some animate creations with free will. The universe has no free will, and is at our disposal to use according to Allah's laws. It is USED by us.
How can the record of how we used it, be the SAME THING as the physical inanimate universe. It makes no sense. That's like saying the history of China is ACTUALLY the landmass called China. Or President Bush's biography is actually the physical land mass called the USA. It's total nonsense. It's so nonsensical that you can't even imagine it. The history/record of something/someone is NOT equal to that thing.
You might build a house. But you are NOT the house, and the house is NOT you.
They are 2 distinct totally separate entities, even though the latter is the direct result of the former. The same way that everything is created by Allah, but ONLY He is Allah and the creation is distinct and separate from Him even though it's a direct result of His action.
Our records of what we did in the universe is not the same thing as the universe. They are NOT the same thing. You dont need to show any ayaat to demonstrate that it is, because it's an absolutely nonsensical statement to state that they ARE the same thing. Can anyone acknowledge this??
Therefore, to so calmly and nonchalantly pretend that anyone's book of deeds is al-kitaab and that is the same thing as the physical universe al-kitaab, is ludicrous.
But nonetheless this is an interesting discussion and I want to figure out how exactly you and br. idolfree are coming to this conclusion. And my own knowledge definitely expands from discussions like these.
You would think if this entire universe and everything in it should be referred to as kitaab, that there would be SOME mention in the Quran that says, hey muslims, the universe and your actions are all kitaabs. You are a kitaab, you'll get a kitaab that you wrote by living in a kitaab.
wassalam
GOT KITAB?
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Peace Ayman, Shuaib, all
Salam brother Shuaib,
Thank you for providing a very good analysis of 37. I enjoyed reading it and I am now thinking about it.
You have not given a coherent definition of al-kitaab. First, I thought your definition was straightforward... it was simply the book of our recorded actions. Each person will have an individual book of actions.
THAT, is an ENTIRELY separate thing from the physical world which you also call al-kitaab. Firstly, this definition of KITAAB is absolutely unwarranted and bizarre. WHY on earth would the physical universe be called kitaab?
Brother, please have patience and see 21104 where the folding of the universe is described as the folding of "books" (plural).
Just to say that "We roll up the heavens like the scroll of a scripture is rolled up" is an allegory.
You would think if this entire universe and everything in it should be referred to as kitaab, that there would be SOME mention in the Quran that says, hey muslims, the universe and your actions are all kitaabs. You are a kitaab, you'll get a kitaab that you wrote by living in a kitaab.
What is in the heavens and the Earth is in a record (kitab), that doesn't imply that the heavens and the Earth = kitaab but both are closely dependent
FM
2270. Did you not know that God knows what is in the heavens and the Earth? All is in a record. All that for God is easy.Ahmad shabir
2270 Do you not know that Allah is fully Aware of all that is in the High and the Low? All that, behold, is in the Divine Database. Verily, all this is easy for Allah.- And there is not a thing hidden in the heavens or the Earth, but is in a clear record
Allow me a small parenthesis
When I read the book on "before the big bang", the authors arrive to this amazing conclusion, The universe before the big bang = information and have no physical aspectInformation---->big bang---> the universe----->the end---> information
Allah knows best
Marie
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salam mary,
thank you for your contribution.
What is in the heavens and the Earth is in a record (kitab), that doesn't imply that the heavens and the Earth = kitaab but both are closely dependent
Well my sentiment exactly, except I dont know if i can say CLOSELY related. But they are related. Just as when someone builds a house, there is a relation between the two. But DEFINITELY, as you agree, they are not one and the same and the terms are not INTERCHANGEABLE as br. idolfree implies in his interpretations of quranic ayaat such as 22.
The universe before the big bang = information and have no physical aspect
Well that's an interesting speculation, but it has no basis in knowledge since there is no scientific knowledge that can explain what happened before the big bang or what will happen after the final end since science itself ceases to exist. We can only know about that, from what ALLAH tells us... and he tells us knowledge of these things through SIMILITUDES (mutashabihaat) since obviously, we can only understand and relate to physical things such as gardens of paradise and fires of hell.
wassalam
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Salam Shuaib,
salam mary,
The universe before the big bang = information and have no physical aspect
Well that's an interesting speculation, but it has no basis in knowledge since there is no scientific knowledge that can explain what happened before the big bang or what will happen after the final end since science itself ceases to exist. We can only know about that, from what ALLAH tells us... and he tells us knowledge of these things through SIMILITUDES (mutashabihaat) since obviously, we can only understand and relate to physical things such as gardens of paradise and fires of hell.
wassalam
This is what I have said to brother idris in this thread "Before the Big Bang"
The authors propose a new and speculative solution to the problem of the initial singularity situated before the Big Bang (the point zero of the space - time). They combine mathematical and physical approachs and they find amazing results.
It is better and more interesting to read the book.
I consider all what we observe in the heavens and the Earth is originated from encoded information, this why I have said they are CLOSELY related.
Peace
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salam marie,
I consider all what we observe in the heavens and the Earth is originated from encoded information, this why I have said they are CLOSELY related.
So do you believe that Allah is merely encoded information?? I think you've got the wrong idea here.
You can develop theories about what happened AFTER the big bang, that's fine. And Allah indeed says to look at the universe and creation and see how he made everything according to a design.
BUT, as far as HOW everything came into existence, it's a different story. He said BE, and it was. There is no mention of a preexisting pool of "information."
So where are you coming up with this idea of ENCODED information? First of all, why would information have to be encoded? That implies that information has to be put into a specific language by Allah in order to create.
Are you putting restrictions on Allah with your theories?? How did you come to that conclusion? You are presenting a very humanoid picture of what the HEAVENS must be like.
wassalam
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Peace shuaib,
salam marie,
I consider all what we observe in the heavens and the Earth is originated from encoded information, this why I have said they are CLOSELY related.
So do you believe that Allah is merely encoded information?? I think you've got the wrong idea here.
Sorry for the confusion, I'm not speaking about Allah but the creation. The science is a good tool to improve our understanding about it.
You can develop theories about what happened AFTER the big bang, that's fine. And Allah indeed says to look at the universe and creation and see how he made everything according to a design.
Before judging the book "before the big bang", you have at least to read it.
BUT, as far as HOW everything came into existence, it's a different story. He said BE, and it was. There is no mention of a preexisting pool of "information."
Just an example to illustrate what I mean by information the genetic code.
Are you putting restrictions on Allah with your theories?? How did you come to that conclusion? You are presenting a very humanoid picture of what the HEAVENS must be like.
T repeat it again, I'm speaking about the creation and not the creator, All prise to Allah, the science allows us to improve our knowledge.
It is not forbidden to understand the secrets of the creation, and there is no limit for the knowledge.
Another book very interesting written by Igor ang Grichka Bogdanov (mathematician and physicist) and Jean Guitton (philosopher) God and the science.
Peace
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salam marie,
thanks for the references. i actually have seen you post them previously. if i had time or extra money i might just pursue that, but i already know that it's a fruitless idea to figure out what happened before the big bang.
As far as your reference to the genetic code, it's irrelevant since that is AFTER the big bang. I understand what information and encoded information is. It makes sense for this world that is bound by physical scientific laws.
But it makes little sense to say that Allah created things based on encoded information. He is above encoding/decoding.
Every reputable scientist that I know, has stated that what happened before the big bang is not within the realm of science. And Allah as well says that he merely said BE, and it was. He did not use preexisting elements to form this universe. He just said BE.
Human beings are bound to the physical restraints of their brains, which are bound by the physical restraints of this universe. It's pointless to try and think what happened BEFORE the big bang since time itself did not even exist. It does not surprise me that there are some scientists out there trying to figure it out though, since they also sometimes believe that God can be explained through mathematics.
wassalam
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Salam shuaib
Every reputable scientist that I know, has stated that what happened before the big bang is not within the realm of science.
You do not hold absolute science to draw a similar conclusion?
Allah knows best!
And Allah as well says that he merely said BE, and it was. He did not use preexisting elements to form this universe. He just said BE.
Incredible!
Was you with the God when He creates the universe?
Do you claim that you hold 100% true meaning of "BE and IT IS""?Human beings are bound to the physical restraints of their brains, which are bound by the physical restraints of this universe. It's pointless to try and think what happened BEFORE the big bang since time itself did not even exist.
I am disappointed of your reaction, you continue to judge this book before to read it because the authors speaks about time, they are not stupid.
Conclusions based on any science are useless. It is more better to abstain.
It does not surprise me that there are some scientists out there trying to figure it out though, since they also sometimes believe that God can be explained through mathematics.
No comment
I leave you with peace
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Peace be upon you Shuiab,
I have a problem with what you are saying. And when I say twisting words, I mean playing fast and loose with your own definitions. Being like a slippery fish meaning that you change the definitions of your terms to suit whatever point you make.
I do not see where I am changing definitions, I am sorry tat I am not making this clear enough for you. With patience, I think we can arrive at an agreeable point. Lets continue.
You have not given a coherent definition of al-kitaab. First, I thought your definition was straightforward... it was simply the book of our recorded actions. Each person will have an individual book of actions.
No, more than that, al kitaab is EVERYTHING there is. Think about this, books are created from "words". All of creation comes from the God's word "BE" and it becomes. So everythiing you look at is from a word "Be". So the entire universe is but a collection of "words", will you agree to this basic point? And what is a collection of words but a writing/book? We can look at the word Universe and see the same understanding. UNI=One, Verse=word, therefore we have ONE-WORD. "BE" and it becomes. Please be patient with what I am saying and think about it. Even the word PERSO, comes from the meaning of PER=through, and SONA = sound, therefore PERSONA= Through SOUND.
"BE" and it becomes.
THAT, is an ENTIRELY separate thing from the physical world which you also call al-kitaab
I hope I have corrected the confusion above.
. Firstly, this definition of KITAAB is absolutely unwarranted and bizarre. WHY on earth would the physical universe be called kitaab? Sure, the things that play out in the physical universe can relate to and enter into our books of actions, BUT the universe itself cannot be called kitaab!
As shown above, ALL THINGS come from the word "BE". Everything is a collection of words. To take it further, everything is SOUND, which comes from vibration, and EVERYTHING is in a state of vibration.
Firstly, the Arabic TOTALLY does not warrant that meaning... and the Quran was revealed in Arabic for a reason, and the Arabic language has been preserved for a reason.
Kitaab means book/writing. I think I have shown sufficient evidence above. Please let me know your opinion.
Since I've said it twice and you didn't understand, let me make it crystal clear
Definition of al-kitaab according to you
Book of each individuals accumulated actions
vs.
The physical universeThese are two, totally separate, MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE items. For you to mix the two seamlessly just shows your mentality.
My brother, why do you feel it necessary to attack my mentality? Please excersice some patience. I wish nothing but peace for the seekers of knowledge.
I feel like the only thing left to do is shake my hands at you... these 2 things are NOT the same.
Please take the FEELINGS out of this, that will always cause a problem.
The physical universe and a human beings LIFE in the universe are NOT the same, they are 2 distinct things.
Humans are made from the earth, we contain iron, zinc,magnesium, etc. How can you say we are NOT part of the WHOLE?
SEPARATELY indentifiable, SEPARATE characteristics, SEPARATE ends. The physical world will END, our book of life is what is used to judge us. 2 TOTALLY separate COMPLETELY different things.
Our physical bodies will end also, then we will be returned to the ONE MIND which we came from.
Yet you apparently effortlessly matter-of-factly blend the 2 seamlessly. I've heard a lot of interesting philosophical views in my time, and this is one of the most bizarre I have to say.
So i'll leave it at that for now... I won't even comment (I guess I already am) on your faulty translation of la RAIBA FIHI. We cannot advance in the discussion unless we get over this hump.
I hope I have given my position more clarity. Please let me know if you still disagree.
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Peace be upon you Ayman,
Brother, please have patience and see 21104 where the folding of the universe is described as the folding of "books" (plural).
Excellent verse brother! Thanks for the clarification.
