Halal.. the real definition?
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Hi everyone and peace be on you peace, this is my first post.
I have been watching this forum carefully and I am so glad that everyone can have an intellectual discussion without things becoming too heated (most times ). There has been something bugging me slightly and I surely must be in the wrong.
I have read (as I know) all parts of the Qur'an refering to the eating of food and how to slaughter the animal. I feel I need some help with this...
I have always believed that halal is food that has been invoked with God's name upon it, excluding blood, meats of pig and any animal that has already died, and the animal must not have been killed by strangling, violent blow, headlong fall, gored to death, partly eaten by a wild animal, sacrificed on altars and also the division of meat by raffling with arrows. This has caused me to have a slight doubt in my understanding of halal food when I buy it from butchers and markets and such. A few things came into my mind whilst reading other sections refering to food i.e. about how food by the people of the book is lawful, food good and pure and also the surah specifically about Hajj where animals permitted to you are available where you can invoke the name of Allah when they are "in a line". The surah about Hajj seems to be referring more to the slaughtering of an animal, that the name of Allah must be invoked when you are about to slaughter it whilst you are on your journey. The actual consuming of food seems to be more of what surah 5 and surah 6 are referring to when God specifics "EAT" from foods etc. I have read various ideas about this and here are a few.
You can eat whatever a muslim, jew or christian slaughters as long as it is slaughtered in the muslim way (the slaughtering-in-a-certain-way isn't too 100% clear on how that is done for me right now...) and invoke God's name when about to consume.
You cannot eat anything that a christian or jew offers you for food and only eat what a muslim is going to offer you, still invoking God's name when about to consume.
You can eat whatever a muslim, jew or christian slaughters as long as the name of God is invoked when about to consume.
I'm slightly confused with these options. One person said to me, we can eat halal meat (i.e. the meat labelled 'halal' in the markets) because the slaughterer has done it in a halal way and if he hasn't then the sin is on him. This used to be my view but then I started doubting. I thought, why should we dump the blame on the slaughterer if God expects us to all be responsible ourselves for our sins and not another person. Also, I can't seem to find a part where God's name must be mentioned whilst slaughtering the animal (thought I could be wrong... I love animals and try to eat meat as little as possible because I have so much compassion for the animal and we have alternatives). In my view, whilst reading the Qur'an, I feel that I should invoke God's name on all food we 'eat' (meat or vegetable) but when it comes to slaughtering, how do we actually know what we are eating? Are we meant to rely upon the slaughterer and trust them and they will get the sin if they lie? I would be interested to see people's views on this . As I said, this is my first post and i'm new here (Nickname is Sushi btw ^.^ ) but it would be nice to see some people's views on this . Plus, I am all for the Qur'an only yet most people seem to use the Hadiths like Bukhari to use to help as well (I have never agreed with Hadiths regardless of how accurate they may be, it is not the word of God...).
Thanks guys and hi everyone ;D
Sushi - Peace peace
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Selam Bender xD, nice to meet you too (I liked the pun xD didn't think of that ;D ).
Don't worry hopefully we can discuss the matter when you are free ). I check my computer several times a day being a busy software engineer at uni so I'll be sure to defo reply to anything you post ).
Peace ) handshake peace
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Selam Bender xD, nice to meet you too (I liked the pun xD didn't think of that ;D ).
Don't worry hopefully we can discuss the matter when you are free ). I check my computer several times a day being a busy software engineer at uni so I'll be sure to defo reply to anything you post ).
Peace ) handshake peace
I am not sure what is meant by "halal" meat. Anyways the verses of the Koran is talking about not to eat the food that has slaughtered by people who invoked other gods while slaughtering it. This is because if we do not take idol worshipers rituals seriously then we will not take any ritual seriously. Especially we are talking about invoking of dieties. God gives a lot of importance with swearing or invoking. Food in the Koran is seen as a providence and if you invoke other gods then you are showing lack of appreciation. If you are hungry or burdened then that is another matter. I think its a question of respect.
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Selam Bigmo and nice to meet you ).
Totally agree with you, only thing O was thinking is how do we know that halal food in mass production is slaughtered the correct way. Do we assume and believe that the people do it properly? I say thanks with everything I eat or drink but God permitted us that Jewish and Christian food is permitted to us (slaughtered in the way that the Quran mentions how NOT to slaughter)... But it just occurred to me "How can we be sure?"... Or do we put our trust in the slaughterers. But as God said we are responsible for our own actions... ???
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Greetings and Peace, all group
@sushi1992 welcome
6119 And why should you not eat that on which the name of GOD has been mentioned, when He has fully detailed to you what has been made unlawful; except what you are forced to? Many misguide by their desires without knowledge; your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors.
It turns out that "mentioned" is in fact "remembered."
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603261.0
If one doesn't eat what is forbidden and remembers ALLAH before eating, the Guidance will have been followed. Is it more ethical to eat ethically raised animals? Of course! But it is not compulsory, and would be a hardship for many (availability, expense, etc). Follow your conscience and needs within the boundaries of what is allowed.
If a believer was to raise or slaughter livestock, they would be expected to do so in an ethical manner.
I'm contemplating raising peccaries (for breeding stock, initially). Can't have pork chops--but peccary chops are a different matter! eat
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Selam Bigmo and nice to meet you ).
Totally agree with you, only thing O was thinking is how do we know that halal food in mass production is slaughtered the correct way. Do we assume and believe that the people do it properly? I say thanks with everything I eat or drink but God permitted us that Jewish and Christian food is permitted to us (slaughtered in the way that the Quran mentions how NOT to slaughter)... But it just occurred to me "How can we be sure?"... Or do we put our trust in the slaughterers. But as God said we are responsible for our own actions... ???
I do not know any other culture that invoked anything when slaughtering meat. So I think this could have been a dinstinctive Meccan pagan practice. So according to the Koran all meats can be eaten except the meat that has been slaughtered by invoking other dieties. There is no such practice I know of today so any meat can be eaten.
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Forgive me if I missed something but aren't what you are talking about have to do with Hajj and the rites performed there?
2236 is about Hajj and the rites associated with that.
6118-121 doesn't mention slaughtering, just mentioning/remembering God before eating.
53 says not to eat animals slaughtered on alters.
54 just says to mention/remember God before eating.
Im not sure where this "halal" concept can be found about any meat you eat, anywhere, anytime must be sacrificed according the the hajj rites? I have always read it that when you eat, just about anything that's not prohibited, to give thanks and remember God.
I do not find a specific prohibition in the Quran about "halal foods" and how they are raised or slaughtered. Am I missing something?
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Selam Bender xD, nice to meet you too (I liked the pun xD didn't think of that ;D ).
Don't worry hopefully we can discuss the matter when you are free ). I check my computer several times a day being a busy software engineer at uni so I'll be sure to defo reply to anything you post ).
Peace ) handshake peace
Salaam,
I was rechecking today some verses before I wanted to reply to you, but I came across some verses and words which made me hmm
So I am sorry but I can't post at the moment my understanding because I want it first to be clear for myself.
But I promise when I am confident with my undestanding I will inshaAllah share my findings.Salaam and forgive me for not keeping up my promise,
Bender -
To Mr Q. (Selam and nice to meet you ) )
It's exactly my train of thought. However, what then makes me ask a question is looking at mostly all traditional muslims, if you got to a butcher it has to be 'halal'... if you go Asda, you have to look for meat that says 'halal' otherwise you won't it it (the 'you' is referring to the traditional muslims that I know of and this was always my way of thinking). It just scares me slightly because when I read the Qur'an I saw everything in a different light... I thought, "Why do I get the answer from some of the most 'moderate muslims' who say "God's name must be mentioned whilst being slaughtered and it has to be cut by the jugilar which causes no pain..."". If anyone knows anymore than I do in terms of what actually is the difference with the so-called "haram" food and "halal" food I would much appreciate it. The way I was seeing it when I actually read the Qur'an (and not hadiths or such) that you cannot eat blood (obviously really unless you are a vampire or like black pudding |), you cannot eat meat of a swine and you cannot eat what God's name has not been invoked on. The animals that have died also cannot have died in the given ways mentioned in the Qur'an. How do we know how an animal is being slaughtered/died in the meat industry? What actually is the difference when it comes to slaughtering in a 'halal' industry and a 'haram' industry (bare in mind my apostrophes as I am not trying to imply that halal and haram are defined in these ways but only the CONVENTION of muslims ). What I really care about and what tugs my veins is I wish that animals would not be slaughtered in an inhumane way... The response I gave to my friend was that "I suppose buying these 'halal' labelled food tells you they might have been ethically killed better than standard meat sold in general supermarkets"... but even that answer of mine that I gave was more of just an attempt to close the subject because I was becoming confused..... Would be interesting to hear from any traditional muslims? (and anyone else for that matter).
To Bender.
No problem Bender ). It will be nice to see what your opinion is.. I think sometimes what I worry about is convention. From what I understand that has always been accepted is, you cannot eat meat unless it has the 'halal' sign, end of really... unless of course you are quite hungry and you can't get to a 'halal' shop then fair enough, don't die out of starvation because that would be going against what Allah tells you... but sometimes it niggles me... to know the truth.. simply from the Qur'an.. what does it mean when the food of the people of the book is lawful for you? (jews and christians of course) Food that is good and pure? (sorry for being lazy and not quoting fully so I'm being honest and not definite that it does say 'pure' but this is from memory and I am quite sure of the 'good' part). Sorry if I am sounding ignorant in this but my opinion differs from so many of my muslim friends...
Thanks for the replies so far guys ) Peace peace
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Greetings and Peace, all group
The whole halal/haram food thing (in the sects) is out of control.
Only a few things are actually forbidden; all else is allowed--too simple.
Other than that
732 Say "Who has made unlawful the nice things that GOD has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?" Say "They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection." It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.
16116 And do not say, as to what your tongues falsely describe "This is lawful, and that is forbidden;" that you seek to invent lies about GOD. Those who invent lies about GOD will not succeed.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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So am I wrong to suggest that maybe when the Koran goes into details about humane slaughter that would also include the fact that it was hard to humanely slaughter an animal back in those times, except by like cutting the main vain?
Anyways, wouldn't stunning an animal be humane, since the animal does not feel it? I am just suggesting that maybe the Koran had to be very specific back then because of lack of technology to make slaughter painless.
Also when it says you can eat what people of the book eat, would it make an allowance for you to eat pork if a Christian offered it to you, so as not to offend their feelings, and you would not prepare it yourself?
I am just asking.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
So am I wrong to suggest that maybe when the Koran goes into details about humane slaughter that would also include the fact that it was hard to humanely slaughter an animal back in those times, except by like cutting the main vain?
Anyways, wouldn't stunning an animal be humane, since the animal does not feel it? I am just suggesting that maybe the Koran had to be very specific back then because of lack of technology to make slaughter painless.
Also when it says you can eat what people of the book eat, would it make an allowance for you to eat pork if a Christian offered it to you, so as not to offend their feelings, and you would not prepare it yourself?
I am just asking.
The translation of "People of the Book" is tricky; it doesn't necessarily apply to Christians. Although different people have different rites (which is okay), the instruction of ALLAH is unchanging.
If pork flesh was not allowed, it will never be allowed and has never been allowed--ISA.
Methods of slaughter apply to the person or persons doing the slaughter.
Flesh pork is not lawful unless eaten unknowingly or by necessity. Otherwise, I'd enjoy me some bacon!
The food of monotheists, excluding what is expressly unlawful (should it be offered) is lawful for other monotheists. It is good for monotheists to associate with each other.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Yeah when it comes to kosher I don't see much a difference between that and Halal. Kosher slaughter they cut the main vain and invoke God over it.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Yeah when it comes to kosher I don't see much a difference between that and Halal. Kosher slaughter they cut the main vain and invoke God over it.
Yep, same-same.
Those who don't accept that alcohol is allowed may have trouble with kosher wine, or those who believe that all parts of pigs are not allowed may have problems with some kosher gelatins--but that's about it.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Correct me if I am wrong but the Quran doesn't give details about how to slaughter animals for regular consumption, whether we should or should not eat something based on some personal definition of halal or kosher.
We can't add rules and restrictions and requirements that are not given in the Quran.
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salaam sushi
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603163.0
and you said that you eat little non-veg
2236 And the plump livestock, We have made them for you to be among the symbols of God; you will have benefit in them. So mention the name of God upon them in succession; then, once their sides have become still, you may eat from them and feed with them the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.
2237 Neither their meat nor their blood reaches God, but what reaches Him is the righteousness from you. It was thus that He made them in service to you, so that you may glorify God for what He has guided you to, and give news to the good doers. -
Yeah when it comes to kosher I don't see much a difference between that and Halal. Kosher slaughter they cut the main vain and invoke God over it.
Where does it say this in the Koran? Is there something in the Koran about how to slaughter animals or that animals need to be slaughtered?
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Selam Abdul-Hadi ) I think we are both on the same wavelength in terms of our thinking ).
Selam Mr Q ) I also agree with you with what you are saying. From what I understood by reading, is that we shouldn't eat the animal if it had been killed in the ways stated like physically beaten or a blow or gored or the other ways which I cannot remember.
I'm just thinking how do we know how it has been killed/slaughtered? And how many of you believe that we should invoke the name of Allah whilst it is being slaughtered, whilst about to eat, or both?
Selam Wasi ) Trust me I appreciate everything Allah has given me (like today just bought a turkish kebab yummy food of my origin ), the only thing is I'm a real animal lover and I do think deeply sometimes when I am eating something. Just I sometimes imagine a lamb happily going about it's on life then someone killing it without not feeling or emotion like a duty (or even worse a machine) even if someone has invoked the name of Allah (or like I've heard some mass productions do by playing a tape)... By no means am I refusing Allah's food and he knows what is in my heart and that it is just pure and heart-felt... but I just sometimes wonder what is the actual process of how 'halal' food is killed by... is it better than organic or free-range? (where at least the animal gets some form of freedom and good treatment). I hope people see where I am coming from and everytime I do eat any food I make sure to say (outloud quietly or in my head) "Bismillhi r-ramni r-ram" before eating (almost most of the time).
Peace everyone and thanks for your responses ). It's nice to see a range of views on this subject ).
Peace ^.^ peace peace