Other/Modern messengers of God?
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Peace everyone peace
I think i might have been Overlooked
Believing that RK is a messenger, does not mean you have to believe that his translation is the best translation,
the purpose of a messenger is to deliver the message! RK's Message was to basically follow the Quran alone!
I encourage you to read Should we follow Rashad Khalifa the Messenger or his Message?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603114MOREOVER, Muhammed CANNOT BE THE LAST MESSENGER!
Muhammed was the messenger of God, and the LAST PROPHET (3340)
****Notice that the word here used is , this designates an Everlasting system, it will always happen, if people say that so and so is the last messenger, than they (people who are transgressing/doubting ] are being mislead by God Almighty himself!****Notice that the word here used is , which means that this action is an Everlasting action, it will always happen.
A quote from progressive1993
This is concept is confirmed by verse (735)
****Notice that the Directed Audience here is the . Now let me ask, are there still Children of Adam left? Yes! So will there be messengers reciting the Almighty's revelations, to the children of Adam? Yes!Show me the verse... I've never seen "Khatamun Rasulin" (the closure of messengers) anywhere..
Having said that, I don't believe in those 'modern messengers' too..
Naah I don't believe anyone here is a 'devil'...
Better stop 'demonizing' those who are not inline with your opinion.. it's childish and stupid.. just like the sunnis... (or the catholics, jews and other sectarians for that matter)
Salam / Peace
I agree with brother jafar and youssef. As far as I'm aware of there is a clear difference between a messenger and a prophet.
A Prophet is one who is authorized by God to bring scripture or an enlightening book ....
2213 The people used to be one nation, then God sent the prophets as bearers of good news and as warners, and He sent down with them the book with the facts so that they may judge between the people in what they were disputing. But after receiving the proof, the people disputed in it due to animosity between them. God guided those who acknowledged with His permission regarding what they disputed in of the truth. God guides whoever/whomever (He) wishes to a straight path.
379 It is not for a human that God would give him the book, the authority, and the prophethood, then he would say to the people "Be servants to me rather than to God!", rather "Be devotees to what you have been taught of the book, and to what you studied."
689 Those to whom We have given the book, the law, and the prophethood, if they reject it, then We will entrust it to a people who will not reject it.
2927 We granted him Isaac and Jacob, and We made within his progeny the prophethood and the book. We gave him his reward in this world, and in the Hereafter he is among the righteous.
5726 We had sent Noah and Abraham, and We placed in their progeny the prophethood and the book. Some of them were guided, while many were wicked.
Messenger's are not the same as Prophets......
Sura 2252 is a clear indication that Messenger's and Prophets are TWO SEPARATE HIERARCHIES ....
2252 We did not send before you any messenger or prophet, without having the devil interfere with his wishes. God then overrides what the devil has cast, and God secures His signs. God is Knower, Wise.If messenger and prophet had the same meaning why would God say messenger or prophet(or in some translations messenger nor a prophet????)
Another proof that shows a difference between prophets and messengers is Sura 381
381 God took a covenant from the prophets "For what I have given you of the book and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you. You will acknowledge him and support him." He said, "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?" they said, "We testify." He said, "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."
Regarding Modern messengers other than Dr.Khalifa I believe that there will be one more that will exist prior to the end of the world which will also be the same one which the Jews were expecting to come for many centuries.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602567.msg280695#msg280695 ( Zul-Qarnain )
Peace,
Kevin.
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others
Ibrahim srei (sam'ol) messager de Dieu
http//vraislam.forumgratuit.org/t331-chapitre-i-ibrahim-srei-sam-ol-messager-de-dieu -
Perhaps you should move this to the Submitters' category, because all of the arguments presented are based on numerology and especially on 19. Nevertheless, I must say that these sites do bring amusement, it is funny to see how far some people are ready to go to justify their mad dreams.
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It wouldn't really be mad dreams.
A messenger is simply a person with a message.
If you invite someone to follow the Quran alone, then you are kind of acting like a messenger.
Messengers are humans.
To every community is a messenger 1636, a guide (137), a warner... even jinns have warners 4629" Messengers to deliver good news, as well as warnings. Thus, the people will have no excuse when they face God, after all these messengers have come to them. God is Almighty, Most Wise. (4165)
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It wouldn't really be mad dreams.
A messenger is simply a person with a message.
If you invite someone to follow the Quran alone, then you are kind of acting like a messenger.
Messengers are humans.
To every community is a messenger 1636, a guide (137), a warner... even jinns have warners 4629" Messengers to deliver good news, as well as warnings. Thus, the people will have no excuse when they face God, after all these messengers have come to them. God is Almighty, Most Wise. (4165)
Obviously you haven't read Ibrahim Srei's articles then
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no i haven't read all of them, i just became known to him today.
In general God Almighty sends warners and people to deliver his message to people. -
Perhaps you should move this to the Submitters' category, because all of the arguments presented are based on numerology and especially on 19. Nevertheless, I must say that these sites do bring amusement, it is funny to see how far some people are ready to go to justify their mad dreams.
Maybe you should move all of your support for SOL's theologies to a category for pagan chakra mysticism, English Common Law and ancient opinion of Church Clergy as sources of Law besides what the Quran actually says?
And yes, SOL is an amusing site to see how far people will go to justify their mad dreams.
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Maybe you should move all of your support for SOL's theologies to a category for pagan chakra mysticism, English Common Law and ancient opinion of Church Clergy as sources of Law besides what the Quran actually says?
And yes, SOL is an amusing site to see how far people will go to justify their mad dreams.
Two things make your comment utterly useless Firstly, there is no such category. Secondly, you say that what is detailed on SOL is pagan, which means that you either fail at simple comprehension, or/and do not understand what is paganism; this draws me to the only plausible and logical conclusion that you suffer from some kind of retardation, mental or intellectual.
Lastly, I know that the truth has the effect of repelling some (like you), but I do not see what you were aiming to achieve by writing such, as I did not feel any kind of offense.
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Maybe you should "study" more of SOL then. I simply reviewed what you sent me and that's what he uses and promotes. Take it up with him if it bothers you.
Show me where chakra mysticism is in the Quran? Show me allodial land laws are in the Quran? SOL misuses 1 verse and expounds an entire theory based not on the Quran but on English Law and writings of the Clergy to justify his "interpretation". Abdun Nur takes the term "to God belongs everything" to construct and entire economic system not described in the Quran using English Law as his basis and you deem that correct? He plays a game with words saying you can't charge for "things" because they are God's and can only charge for "labor" forgetting that Quran also says "everyone" belongs to God so by his own rational labor couldnt be "sold" either and none of it is actually in the Quran as Islamic Law as SOL contends.
Defend Abdun Nur and SOL all you want. I will stick to the Quran.
But seeing as you are so wise and above us in knowledge and understanding of the Quran, maybe you can give the correct "translations" and meanings for these verses;
And God said "Do not take-up two gods, there is only One god, so it is Me that you shall reverence. (1651)
Your god is God; whom there is no god but He. His knowledge encompasses all things. (209
And He is the One who is a god in the heaven and a god on earth. And He is the Wise, the Knowledgeable. (4384) -
There even more... I personally recieved from emails from more than two dozens of them...
But, using these copycats to bash Rashad is a cheap shot.
Perhaps, after Muhammad too there were copycat messengers.
Peace,
Edip -
Maybe you should "study" more of SOL then. I simply reviewed what you sent me and that's what he uses and promotes. Take it up with him if it bothers you.
Show me where chakra mysticism is in the Quran? Show me allodial land laws are in the Quran? SOL misuses 1 verse and expounds an entire theory based not on the Quran but on English Law and writings of the Clergy to justify his "interpretation". Abdun Nur takes the term "to God belongs everything" to construct and entire economic system not described in the Quran using English Law as his basis and you deem that correct? He plays a game with words saying you can't charge for "things" because they are God's and can only charge for "labor" forgetting that Quran also says "everyone" belongs to God so by his own rational labor couldnt be "sold" either and none of it is actually in the Quran as Islamic Law as SOL contends.
Defend Abdun Nur and SOL all you want. I will stick to the Quran.
But seeing as you are so wise and above us in knowledge and understanding of the Quran, maybe you can give the correct "translations" and meanings for these verses;
And God said "Do not take-up two gods, there is only One god, so it is Me that you shall reverence. (1651)
Your god is God; whom there is no god but He. His knowledge encompasses all things. (209
And He is the One who is a god in the heaven and a god on earth. And He is the Wise, the Knowledgeable. (4384)It is a common trait of the religious to debate for the sake of last word, because if you were interested you would not affirm but ask. I obviously understand more of the issues detailed on servantofthelight than you and have put more thought and time unto them, this becomes apparent when we read your remarks.
What would you define as chakra mysticism? The belief that the body of each being is divided into vertices ? I haven't read any administrator of SOL defending this exact concept, and I haven't found a verse in the Qu'ran speaking of this either, but again, my study of the book is ongoing and my actual word can be changed. I would love it, so very much, for you to completely refute Reiki for example.
Your argumentation strategy is flawed and stupid, you are negating the existence of something because the Qu'ran supposedly does not speak of it. Thus, you must have your own vision of the world, the universe and existence in general, as the Qu'ran is silent even on the account of bananas. This adds another plausible alternative to my precedent analysis of you; suffering from schizophrenia or a similar psychological sickness would too be a probable explanation.
As for the politics, the verses are absolutely clear. I find it funny that you choose to accept some verses word by word, but choose not to do the same for others. To Allah everything belongs, points to nothing but allodial right of use. I don't quite understand what you are trying to point out by saying that everyone belongs to Allah too, the two concepts are obviously different, as you can't plant a seed into a human being and make a fruit tree grow from him.
I have not yet arrived to the point of defending the ideas presented on SOL, I am just explaining the key concepts to someone who has clearly understood nothing. I have never said, and do not think that I am above in understanding and science. What differs me and you is that I stay away from logical fallacies, ideas that fail philosophically and scientifically, and choose above all to use reason, every time.
Lastly, I am not the one responsible for the translation on SOL, as I am presently still studying Arabic. Surely if you are interested, you can contact Badar, he will be delighted to answer you.
When you will decide to really converse, I will be more than happy to debate you, but obviously you have not yet arrived to this point as you seem confused and lost, not even knowing for sure what you are saying. Similarly, I have not yet received the wisdom to handle what I see as a bad (for the lack of a more precise word) speech; but we start small, before we can blossom and grow.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHnGJvYmQKg
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You seem lost on the fact that most of SOL's rants and justifications ARE logical fallacies and fallacious reasonings. His premises are wrong to begin with thus his whole argument is little more than straw man arguments, non sequitors and circular reasoning.
The main problem you don't seem to see is he is elevating his opinions and interpretations as Islamic Law, there by declaring all other views and interpretations as Un-Islamic. It's crazy. He can have all the wild opinions he wants and say all he wants about his views and understandings and ramble on and on and on about abstract things not in the Quran but he should steer clear of declaring his opinions and bias as the true and undeniable facts of Islam or Islamic Law or the Islamic way of life.
So enough of SOL, surely you can reason and think for yourself, so what do make of these verses considering Abdun Nur's anti-God opinions?
And God said "Do not take-up two gods, there is only One god, so it is Me that you shall reverence. (1651)
Your god is God; whom there is no god but He. His knowledge encompasses all things. (209
And He is the One who is a god in the heaven and a god on earth. And He is the Wise, the Knowledgeable. (4384) -
You seem lost on the fact that most of SOL's rants and justifications ARE logical fallacies and fallacious reasonings. His premises are wrong to begin with thus his whole argument is little more than straw man arguments, non sequitors and circular reasoning.
The main problem you don't seem to see is he is elevating his opinions and interpretations as Islamic Law, there by declaring all other views and interpretations as Un-Islamic. It's crazy. He can have all the wild opinions he wants and say all he wants about his views and understandings and ramble on and on and on about abstract things not in the Quran but he should steer clear of declaring his opinions and bias as the true and undeniable facts of Islam or Islamic Law or the Islamic way of life.
So enough of SOL, surely you can reason and think for yourself, so what do make of these verses considering Abdun Nur's anti-God opinions?
And God said "Do not take-up two gods, there is only One god, so it is Me that you shall reverence. (1651)
Your god is God; whom there is no god but He. His knowledge encompasses all things. (209
And He is the One who is a god in the heaven and a god on earth. And He is the Wise, the Knowledgeable. (4384)The fool I am for thinking that my last message would have been sufficient to close the case. I will only react to the last part of your message, as I really could care less what your opinions on anything or anyone are. I have my way, my life and you have yours, surely soon we will be differentiated.
Spare me your judgements and spare me your dreams, because recently mine have been tearing my seams. I sit alone in this winter clarity which clouds my mind. - Mumford and Sons
If you would have read my precedent reaction fully, you would have stumbled upon the paragraph that clarifies that I am still in the process of learning and studying Arabic in its whole form. Thus I cannot allow myself to translate the verses you gave, I do not even have the grammar and lexicon books used by Dr. Badar on hand.
You have to understand that one cannot judge the validity of a certain argument, or choose one side over the other, if one does not have both debating parties' arguments in front. When a new argument is given, one must wait for the response to judge. Philosophical and scientific reasons, as well as the proper translations of verses which seemed for me tricky drew me to my present understanding.
As I said before, you would probably find it more beneficiary to converse with Dr. Badar on translations.
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I am a humble servant of the creator. I do not claim anything. I call to GOD Alone. GOD s word is the truth and the messenger. Please browse WWW.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk. May the Lord guide all those who sincerely seek HIM Alone.
In friendship and peace. -
I am a humble servant of the creator. I do not claim anything. I call to GOD Alone. GOD s word is the truth and the messenger. Please browse WWW.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk. May the Lord guide all those who sincerely seek HIM Alone.
In friendship and peace.But god is not the creator. Allah is
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ALLAH, DIEU, GOD, your Lord, my Lord, the Lord of the universe... The One GOD ALONE. The creator of everything there is no god but HE!
Peace. -
ALLAH, DIEU, GOD, your Lord, my Lord, the Lord of the universe... The One GOD ALONE. The creator of everything there is no god but HE!
Peace.Nope.
Allah, the transfinite consciousness that emanates all creation from the inside out. Free of imaginary entities that do not exist.
Allah, Not god, the single consciousness, your Lord, my Lord, the Lord of the universe... the One Creator ( Not God ) ALONE. The creator of everything, there is no god, only Allah. -
3962 GOD is the creator of all things, and HE is in full control of all things.?
32 GOD, there is no god except HE; The Living, the Eternal.?
23116 Most exalted is GOD, the true Sovereign. There is no god beside HIM. The Most honourable Lord, Possessor of all authority.?
5922 HE is the ONE GOD, there is no other god beside HIM. Knower of all secrets and declarations. HE is the Most Gracious, Most Merciful.?5923 HE is the ONE GOD , there is no other god beside HIM. the King, the Most Sacred, the Peaceful, the Most Faithful, the Supreme, the Almighty, the Most Powerful, the Most Dignified. GOD be glorified, far above having partners.?
5924 HE is the ONE GOD; The Creator, the Initiator, the Designer; To HIM belong all the good names. Glorifying HIM is everything in the heavens and the earth. HE is the ALMIGHTY, the MOST WISE.?
Peace
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3962 GOD is the creator of all things, and HE is in full control of all things.?
32 GOD, there is no god except HE; The Living, the Eternal.?
23116 Most exalted is GOD, the true Sovereign. There is no god beside HIM. The Most honourable Lord, Possessor of all authority.?
5922 HE is the ONE GOD, there is no other god beside HIM. Knower of all secrets and declarations. HE is the Most Gracious, Most Merciful.?5923 HE is the ONE GOD , there is no other god beside HIM. the King, the Most Sacred, the Peaceful, the Most Faithful, the Supreme, the Almighty, the Most Powerful, the Most Dignified. GOD be glorified, far above having partners.?
5924 HE is the ONE GOD; The Creator, the Initiator, the Designer; To HIM belong all the good names. Glorifying HIM is everything in the heavens and the earth. HE is the ALMIGHTY, the MOST WISE.?
Peace
Do you think you're proving anything with traditionalist translations?