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Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. Critical Examination of Islam
  3. What is the nature of God?
  4. There is No God.

There is No God.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved What is the nature of God?
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  • K Offline
    K Offline
    Kaiokenred
    wrote on last edited by
    #279

    Personally I think you are looking at it backwards.

    God is the best description we have for... God. If God was to speak to us in terms we didn't understand, we wouldn't be able to make sense of it. The question 'Why is the soap bubble round?' comes to mind.

    If you read more posts on this thread you'd see evidence that Allah is indeed not god.

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    • R Offline
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      Ruuube
      wrote on last edited by
      #280

      If you read more posts on this thread you'd see evidence that Allah is indeed not god.

      2163, 2555, I could go on.

      I'd rather not construe literal verses to fit a different opinion or worldview.

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      • K Offline
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        Kaiokenred
        wrote on last edited by
        #281

        2163, 2555, I could go on.

        I'd rather not construe literal verses to fit a different opinion or worldview.

        Translations you believe are obviously from traditionalists, thus heavily affected by hadiths and corrupted.
        I only accept translations from SOL, others are just a shadow of their true meaning.
        Many times I happened to see translations not fitting with Abdun Nur's view and thus my own, and then got worried and didn't know what to believe anymore, but then I still found explanations for them.
        Even some verse that says " Ilahi anass " and is translated by traditionalists as "God of mankind" referring to Allah on the previous verses, has another translations, " A deity for worship and adoration is the mental confusion ",
        so you're not really proving anything with that verse

        And 2555 doesn't exist, did you mean 255, if so I don't see the problem.

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        • K Offline
          K Offline
          Kaiokenred
          wrote on last edited by
          #282

          http//ldolphin.org/semir.html

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          • Z Offline
            Z Offline
            Zulf
            wrote on last edited by
            #283

            Even some verse that says " Ilahi anass " and is translated by traditionalists as "God of mankind" referring to Allah on the previous verses, has another translations, " A deity for worship and adoration is the mental confusion ",

            To those who are well versed in arabic grammar
            Does this alternate translation given above by Kaio hold in terms of grammar? Is it grammatically sound?
            I believe Abdunur got "mental confusion' from meanings listed under the root Nun Waw Seen.

            Peace

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            • K Offline
              K Offline
              Kaiokenred
              wrote on last edited by
              #284

              To those who are well versed in arabic grammar
              Does this alternate translation given above by Kaio hold in terms of grammar? Is it grammatically sound?
              I believe Abdunur got "mental confusion' from meanings listed under the root Nun Waw Seen.

              Peace

              Dr. Badar Kanwar is the one who translated it. The translation on Servantofthelight is done by him

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              • Z Offline
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                Zulf
                wrote on last edited by
                #285

                Ok.

                I thought I'd ask someone on this forum who might like to share some about grammar (instead of tracking Dr. Badar down and asking him). Personally I'm not able to analyze it. Second of all it is always good to get a "second opinion", i.e. from someone who is not the author of that which is to be analyzed... like peer review.

                Peace

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                • K Offline
                  K Offline
                  Kaiokenred
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #286

                  Ok.

                  I thought I'd ask someone on this forum who might like to share some about grammar (instead of tracking Dr. Badar down and asking him). Personally I'm not able to analyze it. Second of all it is always good to get a "second opinion", i.e. from someone who is not the author of that which is to be analyzed... like peer review.

                  Peace

                  Well lordfox told me it made sense. He knows arabic since he's from Morocco ( although he doesn't live there )

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                  • L Offline
                    L Offline
                    lordfox
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #287

                    Ok.

                    I thought I'd ask someone on this forum who might like to share some about grammar (instead of tracking Dr. Badar down and asking him). Personally I'm not able to analyze it. Second of all it is always good to get a "second opinion", i.e. from someone who is not the author of that which is to be analyzed... like peer review.

                    Peace

                    You can call him on the phone if you want.

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                    • S Offline
                      S Offline
                      Someone
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #288

                      To those who are well versed in arabic grammar
                      Does this alternate translation given above by Kaio hold in terms of grammar? Is it grammatically sound?
                      I believe Abdunur got "mental confusion' from meanings listed under the root Nun Waw Seen.

                      Peace

                      Peace Zulf,

                      Would you please provide the complete translated chapter (by Kaio) from where you took this phrase, so that I can analyze if this translation holds. I am an Arab, and I think I have a minimum knowledge about Arabic to check the veracity of this translation.

                      But at first sight, the translator seems confused and confusing, because "ilahi an'nass" is not (and cannot be) a complete phrase as it is suggested in the translation, but only a "nominal group" acting like the "Object" of a complete phrase.

                      Mohamed

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                      • Z Offline
                        Z Offline
                        Zulf
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #289

                        Would you please provide the complete translated chapter (by Kaio) from where you took this phrase, so that I can analyze if this translation holds. I am an Arab, and I think I have a minimum knowledge about Arabic to check the veracity of this translation.

                        Peace Mohamed,

                        I think it was this one
                        http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/124/157/

                        But then I noticed that in

                        http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/193/229/

                        ...al-nas is interpreted as a tribe of men... so I guess that leaves us with two different renderings. I just noticed.
                        Anyway, in this article, the author is basically showing what happens if you ascribe other word meanings from a lexicon (Lane) to the arabic words, other than are usually used.

                        Peace

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                        • S Offline
                          S Offline
                          Someone
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #290

                          Peace Zulf,

                          Thank you for your help. Here is the translation provided on SOL website

                          Surah 1141

                          Think with your mind, and then make it manifest in your words and actions, that ?I seek protection and preservation from all the mental confusion with my Fosterer, Maintainer, Nourisher and accomplisher.?

                          Surah 1142

                          What is for you, the mental confusion?

                          Surah 1143

                          A deity for adoration and worship is the mental confusion.

                          Surah 1144

                          This mental confusion is, what makes one exceed due limits, so a wrongdoer, unjust, corrupt and wicked. This is the reason for one to go backwards and be held behind; just like a minds whisper, prompting that which is vain, unprofitable and destitute of good.

                          Surah 1145

                          Whomever falls back into melancholia, prompting that which is vain, unprofitable and destitute of good, is just like those, who returned back to the mental confusion.

                          Surah 1146

                          These are the ones among you concealing and veiling from their senses, these facts and hence, are in the mental confusion.

                          Surah 1143
                          A deity for adoration and worship is the mental confusion.

                          For this translation to be correct grammatically, it has to be written in Arabic as

                          in order to be a correct nominal sentence ( ), as the first noun should be definite.

                          All the chapter is very poorly translated, full of grammatical and language errors. I don't have the time to go through all of them.

                          I pity all those that are following blindly this kind of nonsense; without having the ability to verify the Arabic by themselves, or the humility to cross-reference with other translations or verses from the same translation to see by themselves the many contradictions.

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                          • K Offline
                            K Offline
                            Kaiokenred
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #291

                            Peace Zulf,

                            Thank you for your help. Here is the translation provided on SOL website

                            Surah 1143
                            A deity for adoration and worship is the mental confusion.

                            For this translation to be correct grammatically, it has to be written in Arabic as

                            in order to be a correct nominal sentence ( ), as the first noun should be definite.

                            All the chapter is very poorly translated, full of grammatical and language errors. I don't have the time to go through all of them.

                            I pity all those that are following blindly this kind of nonsense; without having the ability to verify the Arabic by themselves, or the humility to cross-reference with other translations or verses from the same translation to see by themselves the many contradictions.

                            Not sure how true it is, but someone told me that Arabic people in school are taught about modern arabic language and it's grammar, not the one used 1400 years ago.

                            You claim it wrong as a fact without discussing it with the one who translated it.

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                            • K Offline
                              K Offline
                              Kaiokenred
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #292

                              This is an old thread that might clear some confusions http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599723.0

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                              • B Offline
                                B Offline
                                bkanwar2
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #293

                                Peace Zulf,

                                Thank you for your help. Here is the translation provided on SOL website

                                Surah 1143
                                A deity for adoration and worship is the mental confusion.

                                For this translation to be correct grammatically, it has to be written in Arabic as

                                in order to be a correct nominal sentence ( ), as the first noun should be definite.

                                All the chapter is very poorly translated, full of grammatical and language errors. I don't have the time to go through all of them.

                                I pity all those that are following blindly this kind of nonsense; without having the ability to verify the Arabic by themselves, or the humility to cross-reference with other translations or verses from the same translation to see by themselves the many contradictions.

                                Kaiokenred, I was not visiting this forum often. Even when I do it is only in Quranic section.

                                Critique is correct on technical basis. I did this Sura and lot others a while ago. Since then my understanding of language has improved a lot. I am retranslating all. However, time is always scarce.

                                Surah 1143
                                This is a Murrakab (compound). The first noun in this kind of nominal compounds by rule can not be written with "Al" the definite article. However, if second noun is definite noun, first one is supposed to be definite as well. So let me correct myself and this verse in public view and domain.

                                1143 The illah/god/deity for worship is the cause for the state of commotion.

                                Please note I am using meaning of "Naas" as "the state of commotion", instead of confusion. This is the real meaning of the root "Noon-Waw-Siin". It does include confusion as well but much more comprehensive concept.

                                Regards, and sorry for getting so late to it.

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