Didn't the writer of the quran know...........?
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From 2184 Its the word yuqnahu that is translated differently. Corpus have the root as ww qf but I can't find it on Root List.
.....who find it imposed on them as a thing difficult,troublesome,inconvenient.
http//www.tyndalearchive.com/TABS/Lane/
The quistion was concerning the command to fast from dawn to sunset. It is a command to do with dawn and sunset, and in some countries the dawn and sunset doesn't happen for maybe up to six months!
So is it mistranslation or didn't the writer know about the dawn and sunset, or doesn't the ramadhan fasting apply in that scenario.
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I am not sure if the Prophet knew of places in the extreme north and south latitudes that have sometimes 20+ hours of daylight. Why would he? I don't the translation is wrong at all and that fasting is decreed for those that are able.
That's why I think it is accurate in the understanding that if fasting is just not feasible, as above, or not doable because of say a medical condition, then you may substitute feeding the poor in place of fasting. IMO
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I am not sure if the Prophet knew of places in the extreme north and south latitudes that have sometimes 20+ hours of daylight. Why would he? I don't the translation is wrong at all and that fasting is decreed for those that are able.
That's why I think it is accurate in the understanding that if fasting is just not feasible, as above, or not doable because of say a medical condition, then you may substitute feeding the poor in place of fasting. IMO
People in general follow the quran because they think it is from Allah and not from a prophet- and Allah knows all things.
brickwall
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Umm.... of course. Why do you ask?
well my quistion is must people fast in these countries http//moonsighting.com/6monthdays.html
where the dawn and sunset are sometimes seperated by may be six months?
Keep in mind that the a fast is commanded from dawn to sunset.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
There are preconditions to fasting.
- Summer Solstice
- First full moon after the Summer Solstice
Are these preconditions met at the locations in question--can they be witnessed? hmm
It is true that there are different forms of witnessing. Knowledge of an event is not the same as being a percipient witness. What does AQ say on the matter?
2844 And you were not on the western slope when We decreed the command to Moses. You were not a witness.
Not to belabor the point, but it seems that each individual must personally witness (although there are a variety of ways that this can be done).
It seems that what 2184 & 2185 are saying is that those who can't fast for legitimate reasons can make up the fast later OR feed the needy. ALLAH has Provided for everyone and for every need.
4153 We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things?
May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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If as Farida said and you brothers are saying that then there is no fasting, as you don't witness the ramadhan then, how about the 5 prayers or the 2 prayers (as some people say) if the days are anything up to six months long, arn't all these prayers commanded to be done at certain times of the day aswell, what happens to them?
Do we stop them too.........till the certain part of day appears?
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salaam/peace all,
It is as farida and AH have said, with regards to "witness" the shahr.
Mr Q - it is in project root list
Tay-Waw-Qaf = to be able, be in a position to do something. taaqatun - ability, power, strength. ataaqa (vb. 4) - to be able to do a thing. tawwaqa (vb. 2) - to twist a collar, put a neck-ring on, impose a difficult task on a person, enable, hang around neck, impose, lay upon, encircle. ataaqa (vb. 4) - to be able to do a thing, find extremely hard and difficult to bear, do a thing with great difficulty. taaqat - the utmost that a person can do.
taqah n.f. 2249, 2286
tawwaqa vb. (2) impf. pass. 3180
ataqa vb. (4) impf. act. 2184
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 5, pages 179, 180
And with regards to timings of salat etc the only plural address used, that I know of, is 2458, all other verses which mention sun/timings are singular. The implication being, that your "morning" and "evening" is the timing.
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.... how about the 5 prayers or the 2 prayers (as some people say) if the days are anything up to six months long, arn't all these prayers commanded to be done at certain times of the day aswell, what happens to them?
Do we stop them too.........till the certain part of day appears?
Salaam
As I understand in north poles even though its six months of day or night there are still stages of darkness and lightness depending on the stages of sun, people in those places often see twiglight with day or night so there are two edges of day and night.The quote below explains very well about the times of Salah, which may fit in all parts of the worlds.
From redsulphur1229 @ http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603386.011114 ? (literal translation) ?And establish Prayer at the edges of the day and in proximity to the night (zulfun layl)?
Although the foregoing is a literal translation, ?edges? is often translated as ?two ends? or "two edges". This verse refers only to 2 prescribed Prayer times, namely, the two ?edges? of the day. Despite the fact that this verse is often cited as referring to 3 prescribed times, with many translations translating ?zulfun layl? as ?some hours of the night?, this appears incorrect. The term ?zulfun? is derived from the root ?zalafa? which means ?to bring near, to approach? and ?zulfa? means ?nearness, proximity?. Therefore, ?zulfun? cannot be translated as ?some hours of? but must be a reference to nearness or proximity to something. The term ?layl? means ?night?. Therefore, the phrase ?zulfun layl? means ?near or in proximity to the night?. The words ?edges of the day? means that the Prayer times referred to in this verse occur during daylight hours, once at the beginning of the day and the other at the end, and not at anytime during the night. However, these day times are close to the night, and thus presumably just after sunrise and just before sunset. The ?approach of the night? (or ?proximity of the night?) cannot be a separate prayer time but merely further description of when these ?edges? occur, namely, in proximity or closest to the night.
1778-79 ? ?Observe Prayer at declining and paling of the sun on to the darkness of the night, and recite the Quran at morning (fajr).?
This verse refers to only one time prescribed for Prayer, namely, when the sun begins to decline (which is when it passes its zenith), and therefore, anytime after the zenith (afternoon or evening). Read with 11114, the prayer is to be closer to the sunset time, and is thus a reference to the second ?edge of the day?. Query No mention is made in this verse to Prayer at morning (fajr) to accompany the Quran recitationThe times of Salah has been the subject of discussion in so many threads, maybe the Quraan is addressing different regions according to climate and time zones.
Allah knows best. -
Mr Q - it is in project root list
Tay-Waw-Qaf = to be able, be in a position to do something. taaqatun - ability, power, strength. ataaqa (vb. 4) - to be able to do a thing. tawwaqa (vb. 2) - to twist a collar, put a neck-ring on, impose a difficult task on a person, enable, hang around neck, impose, lay upon, encircle. ataaqa (vb. 4) - to be able to do a thing, find extremely hard and difficult to bear, do a thing with great difficulty. taaqat - the utmost that a person can do.
taqah n.f. 2249, 2286
tawwaqa vb. (2) impf. pass. 3180
ataqa vb. (4) impf. act. 2184
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 5, pages 179, 180
Thank you Wakas. Corpus must have a typo then because it does list the root as ww qf .
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There is no typo.
You are referring to the transliteration, but there is no universal agreement on transliteration of Arabic letters.
There is universal agreement on the Arabic letters however, and corpus uses the same Arabic letter as PRL in this case.
http//t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbnANd9GcRrUeTecOND6UYxpGEBIL-NDt1f0P3TVHIgqo_x0Uu75AZ-4K8j73snq4Qezw
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Interesting. I see the Arabic letter you refer too below but Corpus says ?
The triliteral root ww qf ( ق occurs four times in the Quran, in three derived forms
once as the form II verb yuawwaqu (ُ (2184 the verse in question)
once as the form IV verb yuqu (ُ
twice as the noun qat (ةhttp//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Twq#(218416)
And project Root List has both ta or tay, that was my confusion. I was looking under ta for it. Thanks for clarifying but it still seems like a typo to me. Maybe I am still confused? confused
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Salaam
As I understand in north poles even though its six months of day or night there are still stages of darkness and lightness depending on the stages of sun, people in those places often see twiglight with day or night so there are two edges of day and night.http//answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071129031929AAbKFPx
there are still stages of darkness and light
when, farida? surely not every morning and evening like us here, as the days are continuose and then the nights for months on end.
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http//answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071129031929AAbKFPx
when, farida? surely not every morning and evening like us here, as the days are continuose and then the nights for months on end.
In summertime, the sun is always above the horizon at the North Pole, circling the Pole once every day. It is highest in the sky at the Summer Solstice, after which it moves closer to the horizon, until it sinks below the horizon, at the Fall Equinox
http//www.arctic.noaa.gov/gallery_np_seasons.html
I will be honest with you, I have not done much research on this just a bit of googling and as earth is not stationary it revolves around sun so there must be some changes in sun shadows indicating its positons.
Salaam -
In summertime, the sun is always above the horizon at the North Pole, circling the Pole once every day. It is highest in the sky at the Summer Solstice, after which it moves closer to the horizon, until it sinks below the horizon, at the Fall Equinox
http//www.arctic.noaa.gov/gallery_np_seasons.html
I will be honest with you, I have not done much research on this just a bit of googling and as earth is not stationary it revolves around sun so there must be some changes in sun shadows indicating its positons.
SalaamI like doing research,
here are some links, why it all happens.
http//www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/6h.html
http//moonsighting.com/6monthdays.html
hmm
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I like doing research,
here are some links, why it all happens.
http//www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/6h.html
http//moonsighting.com/6monthdays.html
hmm
Salaam
Thank you for the links, however salah according to 11114 ? (literal translation) ?And establish Prayer at the edge of the day and in proximity to the night (zulfun layl) could also mean, as Wakas mentioned And with regards to timings of salat etc the only plural address used, that I know of, is 2458, all other verses, which mention sun/timings are singular; the implication being, that your "morning" and "evening" is the timing.
peace
