Shirk creation stories and how they share a common theology
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Salam
I found an interesting page that deals with this issue, but only in the Egyptian myths. The author presents the thesis that the gods of Egypt neteru only represented the different aspects of the one God, and the true God was never shown or drawn.
I wonder if this could be the case also from the different myths . We can find everywhere one force (i.e. one God ) who dominates everything.http//kemeticislam.blogspot.com/2011/06/kemeticislamic-connection-introduction.html
peace peace
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Salam
I found an interesting page that deals with this issue, but only in the Egyptian myths. The author presents the thesis that the gods of Egypt neteru only represented the different aspects of the one God, and the true God was never shown or drawn.
I wonder if this could be the case also from the different myths . We can find everywhere one force (i.e. one God ) who dominates everything.http//kemeticislam.blogspot.com/2011/06/kemeticislamic-connection-introduction.html
peace peace
Just because Sunni and Shia authority CLAIM that the Quran is the first source and primary source in islam, it does not mean in actual REALITY this is true . In fact we know this is not the case at all. Hindus will tell you that Hindusim is monotheism and that these gods are mere representation of the one God who takes many forms depending on function. But the creation stories tell us something very different.
This reminds of this verses
29.63. And if indeed thou ask them who it is that sends down rain from the sky, and gives life therewith to the earth after its death, they will certainly reply, "(Allah)!" Say, "Praise be to Allah." But most of them understand not.
This verse seems to have confused Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab and many Wahhabi authorities. They thought that the pagans acknowledged the oneness of God but fell into shirk because of tawassul to the angels and the dead etc.
{ } . { } .
. And there is no doubt that the Mushriks did not reject Tawhid al-Rububiyyah. Rather they affirmed that He alone, the Sublime, is their creator, and the creator of the heavens and earth, and the one who looks after the affairs of all of the universe. But they rejected Tawhid al-Ilaahiyyah wal-Mahabbah, just as Allaah, the Exalted, stated about them, "And amongst mankind are those who take rivals (in worship) besides Allaah, loving them with the love only due to Allaah. But those who believe are most severe in their love of Allaah" (2165). So when they equated others besides Him in this Tawhid, they became Mushriks, justs as Allaah, the Exalted said, "All praise is due to Allaah who created the heavens and earth and made the darknesses and the light. But then those who disbelieve, turn away from their Lord (to other deities)." (61)
The polytheism of the various nations is of two types Shirk in Ilaahiyyah and Shirk in Rububiyyah.
The Shirk in Ilaahiyyah and Ibaadah (worship) is the predominant one amongst the people of polytheism. This is the shirk of the worshippers of the idols, and worshippers of the Angels, and worshippers of the Jinn, and the worshippers of the Shaykhs and the righteous, both the living and the dead. These are the ones who said, "We do not worship them except that they may bring us closer to Allaah" (393), and that they may intercede for us with Allaah, and that due to their nearness to Allaah and His honouring of them, we may receive nearness and honour, just as it takes place in the world, when nearnness and nobility is attained by the one who serves the helpers of the king, and his relatives and his special associates.
All of the Divine Books, from their very first to their last, came to invalidate this madhhab (doctrine), to refute it, and to revile it's people and to textually state that they are the enemies of Allaah, the Exalted. And all of the Messengers (prayers of Allaah be upon them all) are united upon that, the first of them to the last of them. And Allaah, the Exalted, never destroyed any of the nations except due to this Shirk, and because of it.
http//www.wahhabis.com/articles/asnof-ahmad-bin-ali-al-maqrizi-al-shafii-d-845h-on-tawhid-shirk-rubiyyah-uluhiyyah-shafaaah.cfm
This led some to believe that a mushrik can actually be a believer in one God but is mushrik because he perform tawassul or venerates or elevates something beyond the norm. Its interesting how the Wahhabis kept a blind eye on the Ka'ba . Surely that fits their definition of shirk. Some Quranist actually claimed this. But their definition of shirk was taken from the Wahhabis as they also believed that a monotheist can be mushrik if he prays to something or calls upon something. However, even a casual glance at the creation stories of these pagans tells us a completely different thing. If anything, these people did not even acknowledge God at all in creation and dominion. We have to seperate between what people claim and what they believe in reality. Shrik we can see is in the end a mockery of God. Shirk is a theology as we can clearly see. The creation stories tells us many aspects of their theology. You can not compare sufism or Christianity with any of this. Pagan theology is just radically different than anything in the Abrahamic traditions. They are opposite extremes.
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Salam Bigmo
Thanks for the detailed post.
hmm I actually had the vision of "wahabi Shirk". Your post is very interesting. I have to think about it. ) peace
A good way to look at this is picturing a person praying.
http//the.honoluluadvertiser.com/dailypix/2001/Sep/22/islandlife30_b.jpg
Now at first glance it may appear that these people are worshiping the Earth. In fact I pray this way. Not exactly like how a Sunni prays but I do make sujood to the ground and touch my head to the ground. Its just another form of this picture
http//www.inspiredbymuhammad.com/images/kaba.jpg
Here it may also appear that these people are praying to the Ka'ba. But we know that doing sujood to the ground is not worshiping the Earth. But this is the problem when shirk is understood as an act and not a faith. Nobody believes the Ka'ba is a god, just like nobody believes the Earth is a god. But they really are the same form of worship. When you raise your hand to the sky to make dua you are not worshiping the sky.
http//www.quran-sunnah.org/blog/wp-content/uploads//2011/03/Guidelines-of-Dua.jpg
Its what a person believes that seperates shirk from monotheism. A mushrik prays to what he actually believes is a god.
These creation stories tells us that no matter what justification pagans try to give regarding their faith in God, its all lies. Just like the Quran says.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4-hnhqVPmw&feature=related
Shinto creation story.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=koxp_q46z0Q
Aboriginal creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3XoYZgvEH8
Some native American creation story
These people didn't believe in no tawheed al rububiyya or whatever they call it man. These people didn't believe in any kind of tawheed whatsoever. They believed in a childish sopa opera. Its a mockery of God and His creation. Its a denial of God and worshiping imagination instead.
"We did not create the heavens and the earth and that between them in play. We did not create them except in truth, but most of them do not know."
How true.
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Zoroastrian (Persian paganism) Creation Story
This story is taken from the Book of Creation, the Bundahishn, which dates from the 6th century AD.
In the beginning, there was nothing in the world except Ahura Mazda, the Wise Lord, who lived in the Endless Light. And the Evil Spirit, Ahriman, who lived in the Absolute Darkness. Between them lay only emptiness.
One day, Ahura Mazda decided to make different creations. First He shaped the sky made of metal, shinning and bright. Second, He made the pure water. Third, the Wise Lord created the Earth, flat and round with no mountains and valleys. Fourth, He made the plants, moist and sweet with no bark or thorn. Fifth, he created the animals, big and small. Then he created the First Man, Gayomard, bright, tall, and handsome. And lastly, he created Fire and distributed it within the whole creation. The Wise Lord ordered Fire to serve the mankind in preparing food and overcoming cold.
The Evil Spirit peeked out of his dark world to see the Wise Lord?s beautiful creations. The Wise Lord called him and said, "Evil Spirit! Aid my creatures and give them praise so that you will be immortal."
The Evil Spirit snarled, "Why should I aid your creatures? Why should I praise them? I am more powerful! I will destroy you and your creatures for ever and ever." Then he crawled back to his dark side to shape demons, witches, and monsters to attack the Endless Light.
The Wise Lord was All-knowing. He knew the Evil Spirit was making demons to destroy His good creations, and He also knew there would be a great battle with the Dark. So the Wise Lord fashioned six Spirits-the Holy Immortals- to guard His creations against the Endless Dark. The Wise Lord shaped the Holy Immortals from His own soul, each having His own nature.
The first Holy Spirit was Khashathra, the Righteous Power, who became the guardian of the sky. Then the Wise Lord created Haurvatat, the Peace and Perfection. She became the protector of waters. Next was Spenta Armaiti, the Holy Devotion. She guarded the Earth. The other Holy Spirit, Ameretat, the Immortality, became the protector of plants. Vohu Manah, the Good Mind, was the fifth Holy Spirit. He chose to protect the animals. And Asha Vahishta, the Justice, became the guardian of Fire. Lastly, the Wise Lord made His own Holy Spirit the protector of the mankind.
Ahriman saw the Wise Lord?s Holy Immortals and was enraged. He cried, "Ahura Mazda! I will destroy you and all your creations. You will never be victorious!"
So, he and his demons attacked the God?s creations one by one.
They tried to destroy the water but they could only bring bitterness to it. They tried to destroy the Earth but they could only put mountains and valleys. They tried to wither the plants but the plants only grew horns.
The Evil Spirit and his demons brought sadness against happiness, pain against pleasure, pollution against purification and death against life. They attacked Gayomard, the First man, and gave him sickness and death.
The Evil Spirit thought he had destroyed the mankind and became victorious against the Light! But he was ignorant and foolish.
When Gayomard, the First Man, died from his bones grew a rhubarb plant. After forty years, a man and a woman, Mashya and Mashyana, grew out of the rhubarb plant. Mashya and Mashyana promised the Wise Lord that their children would help Him in His battle with Ahriman. Mashyana then gave birth to fifteen twins and every pair scattered around the world and became a race.
Then each person followed the good thoughts, good deeds, and good words. Each became the follower of the Wise Lord in His battle with the Evil Spirit.
http//www.zoroastriankids.com/creation.html
The Babylonian Creation Story (Enuma elish)
Like the Greek Theogony, the creation of the world in the Enuma elish begins with the universe in a formless state, from which emerge two primary gods, male and female
When the skies above were not yet named
Nor earth below pronounced by name,
Apsu, the first one, their begetter,
And maker Tiamat, who bore them all,
Had mixed their waters together,
But had not formed pastures, nor discovered reed-beds;
When yet no gods were manifest,
Nor names pronounced, nor destinies decreed,
Then gods were born within them. (Dalley 233)Apsu, the male "begetter," is the sweet waters, while Tiamat, the female "maker," is the bitter, salt waters. Sweet and salt water mingle together at the mouths of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, site of the origins of Mesopotamian civilization. Some translators see the word "maker" in line 4 not as an adjective describing Tiamat but as another god, named Mummu, who emerges at the same time. As you might expect, Mummu means "maker," "form," "mold," or "matrix." Besides being Apsu's vizier, Mummu is the mold or the undifferentiated substance from which things are made. Like Eros at the beginning of the Theogony, this Mummu-power is necessary to get the job of birth-creation going. Stephanie Dalley notes that "the bit-mummu was the term for a workshop that produced statues of deities" (274). N. K. Sandars, however, sees mummu as potential, or entropy (27). In this early period, nothing is named yet because nothing has appeared or been created yet. Notice that pasture-land must be formed--wrested from the desert by the hard work of digging and irrigation. The reed-beds mentioned in line 6 are handier than one might think in southern Iraq today, the marsh dwellers live and work in floating houses and boats made from the reeds in the reed-beds. The "destinies" mentioned in line 8 are somewhat like the Sumerian me--cultural patterns and ways of living.
After the waters of Apsu and Tiamat mix, the gods Lahmu and Lahamu ("slime, mud" emerge. And from this pair come Anshar ("whole sky" and Kishar ("whole earth", meaning perhaps "the horizon, the circular rim of heaven and the corresponding circular rim of earth" (Jacobsen 16. Anshar and Kishar give birth to Anu, the sky god, who in turn begets what one translation calls "his likeness" (Heidel 1 Ea, the trickster god of the flowing waters, who is familiar to us as Enki.
The young Ea was stronger than his father, and like any youngster he was fond of running around, playing with some other new gods (his brothers). All this noise and commotion disturbed Tiamat, "roiled Tiamat's belly" (Jacobsen 179). Apsu grew angry, but Tiamat, like many moms, put up with the noise much better than dad.
http//faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/Enuma_Elish.html
Mayan Creation Myth
The myth of Maya creation as recorded in the Popul Vuh starts with One Ahuapu (the first father) walking past the mouth of a cave. The gods of the underworld call out to him and invite him to come down and play a ball game. He takes the bait and descends into the darkness, where the gods immediately behead him. They hang his severed head in a Calabash tree.
Shortly thereafter, the daughter of one of the gods walks by and stops and speaks to the hanging head. The head spits into her hand. Naturally she becomes pregnant, and is banished from the underworld. In due course she gives birth to twin boys (the Hero Twins). They grow into strong young lads.
After hearing the story about their father, the Hero Twins decide to go in search of him. They find the mouth of the cave (Xibalba), challenge the gods to a ball game, and win. Then thru a series of tricks in which one brother kills the other and then brings him back to life, followed by the second brother repeating the performance, the gods are dumbfounded.
Finally, one said "Can you do that for me?". "Sure" said the twins, at which point they dutifully stepped forward to fulfill the god's request, and slayed him. Then, instead of bringing him back to life, they resurrect their long dead father and head for the surface. The father, following the twins, sees corn along the trail, and takes an ear.
As they reach the surface, the Hero Twins pass thru Xibalba and rise into the sky to become the Sun and Moon. The father emerges from the cave as the God of Maize, and is greeted by the first sunrise of the Maya world.
All Maya everywhere believe that they are the descendants of that one ear of corn. That is the definition of who is a Maya and who is not.
Somewhere in the Maya world tonight an old man will gather young children around a fire and tell them this story, as it has been told for over 5000 years. Scenes from it are found in Maya art from the very earliest examples. It is a fundamental piece of the Maya culture, mythology, and religion. It is the most important piece of literature ever produced in the western hemisphere, and is generally unknown.
http//www.atitlan.net/maya/mayan-creation-myth.htm
Vikings Creation Story
The Vikings believed that, once, there was no planet Earth. That there was only an empty space where we are now, in the universe. To the North of that empty space was a world called Nifliem, dark and misty, where there was a well from which eleven rivers ran, and some giants lived.
To the South of that empty space was another world, Muspell. This was fiery and hot, and was where the giant Surt lived.
A time came, when the rivers from the frozen North reached the fiery South, and from the joining together of hot and cold, sprang a new giant called Ymir, and it was from Ymir that the new Earth world first came. Created with a giant, by the giants of the North and South.
The earth was made from Ymir?s flesh, the mountains from his bones, the rocks from his teeth and jaws. The seas and lochs were made from his icy blood and the clouds were made from his brain. In the sky, these giants from North and South set sparks as stars, creating night and day, sun and moon, and so the world was born.
Now this Earth had a vast ocean and on its farthest shore lay Jotunheim, the home of the frost giants, and on the nearest shores and islands lived the new people. The first man and woman were created from a tree and a creeper, the Ash tree, which were found a sea shore, and these people were given spirits, understanding, movement and the five senses.
The growing people looked upon the beings North and South of the now filled empty space, as gods, and in the middle of their world they built Asgard, and here stood Valhalla. Valhalla was the home to their greatest god, Odin and a hall of fame where all the great Viking warriors went after death. Odin lived there with his wolves and two ravens. The ravens were called Thought and Memory, who flew all over the world then returned to whisper to Odin what was happening in the world.
http//tribes.tribe.net/b9b544af-89e5-4aa7-8dec-c917f83c3bd7/thread/6d6408ca-f851-4d58-bfa1-1aca7c7a0c4c
An African creation story
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdrvoXIH-uc
Some various African creation stories. The first one (Bantu tribe) is presented in the video I posted.
Boshongo(Bantu Tribe)
In the beginning there was only darkness, water, and the great god Bumba. One day Bumba, in pain from a stomach ache, vomited up the sun. The sun dried up some of the water, leaving land. Still in pain, Bumba vomited up the moon, the stars, and then some animals the leopard, the crocodile, the turtle, and, finally, some men, one of whom, Yoko Lima was white like Bumba.
DogonAt the beginning of time, Amma (a supreme god who lived in the celestial regions and was the origin of all creation) created the Earth and immediately joined with it. But the Earth's clitoris opposed the male penis. Amma destroyed it, circumcising his wife, and they had a child, Ogo, and the twins, the Nommo. Ogo had no partner and was barren, so he introduced disorder into the world by committing incest with his mother, Earth. The first menstrual blood came from this union, as well as Yeban and Andumbulu, the spirits of the underworld.
Amma created the stars by throwing pellets of earth into space. He created the sun and moon by modelling two white earthenware bowls, one encircled with red copper, the other with white copper. Black people were born under the sun and white people under the moon. (The latter paragraph is quoted in L.V.Thomas, Les Religions de L'Afrique noire, Paris, 1969)Efik(Central Nigeria)
The creator, Abassi, created two humans and then decided to not allow them to live on earth. His wife, Atai, persuaded him to let them do so. In order to control the humans, Abassi insisted that they eat all their meals with him, thereby keeping them from growing or hunting food. He also forbade them to procreate. Soon, though, the woman began growing food in the earth, and they stopped showing up to eat with Abassi. Then the man joined his wife in the fields, and before long there were children also. Abassi blamed his wife for the way things had turned out, but she told him she would handle it. She sent to earth death and discord to keep the people in their place.
Ekoi(South Nigeria)
In the beginning there were two gods, Obassi Osaw and Obassi Nsi. The two gods created everything together. Then Obassi Osaw decided to live in the sky and Obassi Nsi decided to live on the earth. The god in the sky gives light and moisture, but also brings drought and storms. The god of the earth nurtures, and takes the people back to him when they die. One day long ago Obassi Osaw made a man and a woman, and placed them upon the earth. They knew nothing so Obassi Nsi taught them about planting and hunting to get food.Ethiopia
Wak was the creator god who lived in the clouds. He kept the vault of the heavens at a distance from the earth and covered it with stars. He was a benefactor and did not punish. When the earth was flat Wak asked man to make his own coffin, and when man did this Wak shut him up in it and pushed it into the ground. For seven years he made fire rain down and the mountains were formed. Then Wak unearthed the coffin and man sprang forth, alive. Man tired of living alone, so Wak took some of his blood, and after four days, the blood became a woman whom the man married. They had 30 children, but the man was ashamed of having so many so he hid 15 of them. Wak then made those hidden children into animals and demons.Fans(Bantu)
In the beginning there was nothing but Nzame. This god is really three Nzame, Mebere, and Nkwa. It was the Nzame part of the god that created the universe and the earth, and brought life to it. Whle the three parts of Nzame were admiring this creation, it was decided to create a ruler for the earth. So was created the elephant, the leopard, and the monkey, but it was decided that something better had to be created. Between the three of them they made a new creature in their image, and called him Fam (power), and told him to rule the earth. Before long, Fam grew arrogant, he mistreated the animals and stopped worshipping Nzame. Nzame, angered, brought forth thunder and lightning and destroyed everything that was, except Fam, who had been promised immortality. Nzame, in his three aspects, decided to renew the earth and try again. He applied a new layer of earth to the planet, and a tree grew upon it. The tree dropped seeds which grew into more trees. Leaves that dropped from them into the water became fish, those that dropped on land became animals. The old parched earth still lies below this new one, and if one digs deep enough it can be found in the form of coal. Nzame made a new man, one who would know death, and called him Sekume. Sekume fashioned a woman, Mbongwe, from a tree. These people were made with both Gnoul (body) and Nissim (soul). Nissim gives life to Gnoul. When Gnoul dies, Nissim lives on. They produced many children and prospered.Wahungwe(Zimbabwe)
Maori created the first man, Mwuetsi, who became the moon. Maori gave him a ngona horn filled with ngona oil and told him he would live at the bottom of the waters. Mwuetsi objected and said he wished to live on the land. Maori reluctantly agreed, but said Mwuetsi would give up immortality if he did. After a while Mwuetsi complained of loneliness, so Maori sent him a woman, Massassi (the morning star), to keep him company for two years. Each night they slept on opposite sides of a campfire, until one night Mwuetsi jumped over the flame and touched Massassi with a finger he had moistened with the ngona oil. In the moning Massassi was huge, and soon gave birth to plants and trees until the whole earth was covered by them. At the end of two years Maori took Massassi away. Mwuetsi wept for eight years, at which time Maori sent him another woman, Morongo (the evening star), saying that she could stay for two years. On the first night Mwuetsi touched her with his oiled finger, but she said she was different than Massassi, and that they would have to oil their loins and have intercourse. This they did, this night, and every night thereafter. Every morning Morongo gave birth to the animals of creation. Then she gave birth to human boys and girls, who became full-grown by that very same evening. Maori voiced his disleasure with a fierce storm, and told Mwuetsi he was hastening his death with all this procreation. Morongo, ever the temptress, instructed Mwuetsi to build a door to their habitat so that Maori could not see what they were doing. He did this, and again they slept together. Now in the morning Morongo gave birth to violent animals; snakes, scorpions, lions, etc. One night Morongo told Mwuetsi to have intercourse with his daughters, which he did, thereby fathering the human race.Yoruba
In the beginning was only the sky above, water and marshland below. The chief god Olorun ruled the sky, and the goddess Olokun ruled what was below. Obatala, another god, reflected upon this situation, then went to Olorun for permission to create dry land for all kinds of living creatures to inhabit. He was given permission, so he sought advice from Orunmila, oldest son of Olorun and the god of prophecy. He was told he would need a gold chain long enough to reach below, a snail's shell filled with sand, a white hen, a black cat, and a palm nut, all of which he was to carry in a bag. All the gods contributed what gold they had, and Orunmila supplied the articles for the bag. When all was ready, Obatala hung the chain from a corner of the sky, placed the bag over his shoulder, and started the downward climb. When he reached the end of the chain he saw he still had some distance to go. From above he heard Orunmila instruct him to pour the sand from the snail's shell, and to immediately release the white hen. He did as he was told, whereupon the hen landing on the sand began scratching and scattering it about. Wherever the sand landed it formed dry land, the bigger piles becoming hills and the smaller piles valleys. Obatala jumped to a hill and named the place Ife. The dry land now extended as far as he could see. He dug a hole, planted the palm nut, and saw it grow to maturity in a flash. The mature palm tree dropped more palm nuts on the ground, each of which grew immediately to maturity and repeated the process. Obatala settled down with the cat for company. Many months passed, and he grew bored with his routine. He decided to create beings like himself to keep him company. He dug into the sand and soon found clay with which to mold figures like himself and started on his task, but he soon grew tired and decided to take a break. He made wine from a nearby palm tree, and drank bowl after bowl. Not realizing he was drunk, Obatala returned to his task of fashioning the new beings; because of his condition he fashioned many imperfect figures. Without realizing this, he called out to Olorun to breathe life into his creatures. The next day he realized what he had done and swore never to drink again, and to take care of those who were deformed, thus becoming Protector of the Deformed. The new people built huts as Obatala had done and soon Ife prospered and became a city. All the other gods were happy with what Obatala had done, and visited the land often, except for Olokun, the ruler of all below the sky.Zimbabwe
Modimo was the creator. He distributed good things, appeared in the east and belonged to the element water. At the same time he was a destroyer, a terrifying creature responsible for drought, hail, cyclones and earthquakes. When these things happened he appeared in the west and was part of the element fire. Modimo was also sky and light, earth and root. He was unique and singular. He had no ancestors, no past or future. He pervaded the whole of creation. His name was taboo and could be spoken only by priests and seers.Zulu Creation story
http//www.bigmyth.com/myths/english/2_zulu_full.htm
I have now presented evidence from all continents of the Earth. Not one ever believed God is the sole creator and sustainer. This notion that the pagans of Mecca believed that God was the sole creator and sustainer but were mushriks because they practiced tawassul is simply incorrect. The fact that they believed God has daughters says it all. Very typical of pagan theology.This notion that the Ka'ba is an idol and tawaf is shirk is simply incorrect. Shirk is another ball game altogether. Shrik is nothing but fairy tales and mockery. Its the deliberate denying of God.
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Zoroastrian (Persian paganism) Creation Story
This story is taken from the Book of Creation, the Bundahishn, which dates from the 6th century AD.
In the beginning, there was nothing in the world except Ahura Mazda, the Wise Lord, who lived in the Endless Light. And the Evil Spirit, Ahriman, who lived in the Absolute Darkness. Between them lay only emptiness.
One day, Ahura Mazda decided to make different creations. First He shaped the sky made of metal, shinning and bright. Second, He made the pure water. Third, the Wise Lord created the Earth, flat and round with no mountains and valleys. Fourth, He made the plants, moist and sweet with no bark or thorn. Fifth, he created the animals, big and small. Then he created the First Man, Gayomard, bright, tall, and handsome. And lastly, he created Fire and distributed it within the whole creation. The Wise Lord ordered Fire to serve the mankind in preparing food and overcoming cold.
The Evil Spirit peeked out of his dark world to see the Wise Lord?s beautiful creations. The Wise Lord called him and said, "Evil Spirit! Aid my creatures and give them praise so that you will be immortal."
The Evil Spirit snarled, "Why should I aid your creatures? Why should I praise them? I am more powerful! I will destroy you and your creatures for ever and ever." Then he crawled back to his dark side to shape demons, witches, and monsters to attack the Endless Light.
6th Century AD?.. When I look at the wikipedia they say it's much later than that..
Around 7th-8th century AD. No wonder it has many similarities with Genesis... as it was compiled in effort to compete with 'the incoming heathen foreign religion' of Christianism and it's syncretic / next generation form named Islamism (The religion not the attitude)..Nonetheless, as any other 'religion'..(Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc..) it was developed in stages.. where generation of priests contribute their own fantasy works in order to keep the 'religion alive', the customer believer happy and the $$$ flowing..
Salam / Peace
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what is Shrik (paganism) anyways. Its far worse than you think.
Hardline Islamists destroy Muslim religious shrines in Timbuktu
Jul 1, 2012
BAMAKO // Hardline Islamists occupying northern Mali went on the rampage in Timbuktu on Saturday, attacking shrines to Muslim saints and threatening to destroy every religious site in the fabled city.
Armed militants from the fundamentalist Ansar Dine group have already destroyed the ancient tomb of at least one revered Muslim figures on Saturday, just days after UNESCO named the city an endangered world heritage site.
"They have raped Timbuktu today. It is a crime," said a source close to a local imam after the onslaught began early Saturday.
Ansar Dine, one of the Islamist groups which seized control of the vast desert north of Mali in the chaotic aftermath of a March coup in Bamako, said no religious site would be safe in Timbuktu.
"Ansar Dine will today destroy every mausoleum in the city. All of them, without exception," spokesman Sanda Ould Boumama told AFP through an interpreter from the city.
UNESCO put the World Heritage site, a cradle of Islamic learning known as the "City of 333 Saints", on its endangered list on Thursday because of the continued unrest in the north.
The Ansar Dine spokesman suggested Saturday's action was in retaliation for the UNESCO move.
"God is unique. All of this is haram (or forbidden in Islam). We are all Muslims. UNESCO is what?" he said, declaring that Ansar Dine was acting "in the name of God."
Witnesses in Timbuktu said the gangs had destroyed the mausoleum of a saint whose 15th century tomb was already desecrated in May by members of Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Magreb, one of the groups in control in the north.
"As I am speaking to you, Islamists from Ansar Dine have destroyed the mausoleum of saint Sidi Mahmoud," one witness told AFP.
"They are now in the process of destroying the mausoleum (of Sidi Moctar)," said a local journalist. "They have said they will destroy everything."
Islamic and tribal Tuareg groups took advantage of the March 22 military coup in Bamako to push government forces out of northern Mali, an area the size of France and Belgium, including the cities of Gao, Kidal and Timbuktu.
UNESCO, the world's main watchdog over the safety of some of history's greatest treasures and most threatened cultural exhibits, designated Timbuktu a heritage site in 1988.
Beyond its historic mosques, Timbuktu has 16 cemeteries and mausolea, according to the UNESCO website.
It is also home to nearly 100,000 ancient manuscripts, some dating back to the 12th century, preserved in family homes and private libraries under the care of religious scholars.
http//www.thenational.ae/news/world/africa/hardline-islamists-destroy-muslim-religious-shrines-in-timbuktu
All of this senseless violence and destruction of history is because of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab claim that the pagans of Mecca used to believe that God is the sole sustainer and creator but were mushriks because they practiced tawassul. Ibn Abdul Wahhab claimed this
The Arab Pagans believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah brickwall
The belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah was never denied by any of the previous nations, except few who denied the existence of Allah, like Fir?awn (Pharaoh), the atheists and communists of this age. The Arab Pagans amongst whom the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) was sent believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah. They believed in Allah to the extent that they declared Allah as the Supreme Lord. They acknowledged Him as the Creator of the Universe and considered Him to be the Sovereign and the Provider of sustenance, hypno as is clear from the verses of Soorah al-Muminoon, Allah says ?Say (to the disbelievers) ?Whose is the earth and whosoever is therein? If you know!? They will say ?It is Allah? ? Say ?Who is the Lord of the seven Heavens and the Lord of the Great Throne?? They will say ?Allah? ? Say ?In whose Hands is the sovereignty of everything? And He protects all, while against whom there is no protector, if you know?? They will say ?(All this belongs) to Allah.?
However, the belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah did not make them Muslims, because they lacked Tawheed al-Uloohiyyah (Oneness of Allah?s Worship). Even though, the Arab Pagans believed that Allah was their Lord, they did not direct all forms of worship to Him alone. They believed that Angles and pious people had special status with Allah, and thus could intercede with Allah for them. They would say ?We only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allah.? Calling upon Allah for one?s needs is a great act of worship, and if it is directed towards other than Allah, it leads to Shirk in the worship. Allah revealed ?They worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say ?These are only our intercessors with Allah.?
Thus, Allah declared their act of seeking intercession with Allah as Shirk and termed them as Kafirun and Mushrikeen. He ordered His Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) to proclaim, ?I worship not that, which you worship, nor will you worship that which I worship, and I shall not worship that you are worshiping, nor will you worship that which I worship.? These verses of the Noble Qur?aan establish the importance of the Tawheed of worship along with the Tawheed of Lordship.
Essential Points From the above, we understand that the Arab Pagans, despite their ignorance and arrogance, completely understood the meaning of Ibaadah (worship). They believed that intercession is a form of worship, and did not deny that calling upon pious people amounted to worshiping them. They would call their idols, ?Aaliha?(pl. of Ilah lit. meaning, One, who is worshiped). This is in sharp contrast of the belief of the grave-worshipers of today, who make the engraved as intercessors with Allah, and yet do not consider it to be Shirk!!
http//www.ahya.org/tjonline/eng/02/1tawheed.html
This is what ignorance can do. Abdul Wahhab did not do any research on paganism or gave us any facts from pagan traditions but simply interpreted some verses of the Quran. He talked about Tawheed but knew nothing about it. We are told in the Quran to research and seek knowledge. But no such research was done by him. This is now a huge fitna. He was wrong. No pagan tradition in the history of mankind believed in God being the sole creator and sustainer. They would not be pagans by definition.
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Salam Bigmo
However, the belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah did not make them Muslims, because they lacked Tawheed al-Uloohiyyah (Oneness of Allah?s Worship). Even though, the Arab Pagans believed that Allah was their Lord, they did not direct all forms of worship to Him alone. They believed that Angles and pious people had special status with Allah, and thus could intercede with Allah for them. They would say ?We only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allah.? Calling upon Allah for one?s needs is a great act of worship, and if it is directed towards other than Allah, it leads to Shirk in the worship. Allah revealed ?They worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say ?These are only our intercessors with Allah.?
So if I understand this correctly, sorry am a bit slow, he interpreted that the Meccans knew Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah, but in fact they worship Gods and not God. in fact they didn't know Allah? You want say, that there is no shirk in Worship?
From the Qur'an we learn only, that Muhammad has spoken with people who believed in Allah. However, he combined this with the traditions and creeds a new form of Paganism The Polytheism with one high God.( Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah withoutTawheed al-Uloohiyyah) is this correct?
However,you say, " this is wrong. Either we are monotheists or polytheists."
I've seen the difference, it was equivalent in all myths, that gods who have fought each other and have had children, this in contrast to the statement in Surah al muminun.
But what is with India , they didn't have Brahman as 'the Top God' ? And what about Christians or Muslims who pray to saints, not as God but as helpers -this is not shirk?
Sorry, so many question - i'm a little bit confused. Can you help ?
Thank you very much. peace ) -
Shirk got nothing to do with "worshiping > 1 gods".... and/or monotheism...
Shirk is a bad traits which is a combination of lies, deceit, injustice, oppressive, hatred and greed..
Even the Devil is a monotheist...The whole objective of the Quran is NOT to do "Gods consolidation".. from N into 1...
Many people here has also said the same thing.. the true God... is not a narcissistic 'being' who wanted to be worshiped. The true God loves justice, compassion, mercy, honesty more than He loves to be worshiped.
The whole objective of the Quran is to shed light / revelation to the society deeply embedded in darkness, myths, religion and mysticism...
The whole objective of the Quran is to expose the frauds, the corrupts, the priests, the scam artists and their fake dogma who has taken away so many of hard earned money from regular peasantry.
The whole objective of the Quran is to transform the society from the darkness of ignorance into the light of knowledge.The kufr are not the 'disbeliever' and/or polytheists.. the kufr are those frauds, scam artists, mafias who tried everything in their power to stop the truth being spread out, as they've gained $$$, power and influence over the lies being spread out in the society.. The Kufr has forgotten about their commandment with their own creator thus they have 'shirk-ing' from it..
The Kufr (Kaffirin) and those whose Shirk (Mushrikin) CAN be a monotheist too..!
Salam / Peace
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Salam Bigmo
So if I understand this correctly, sorry am a bit slow, he interpreted that the Meccans knew Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah, but in fact they worship Gods and not God. in fact they didn't know Allah? You want say, that there is no shirk in Worship?
From the Qur'an we learn only, that Muhammad has spoken with people who believed in Allah. However, he combined this with the traditions and creeds a new form of Paganism The Polytheism with one high God.( Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah withoutTawheed al-Uloohiyyah) is this correct?
However,you say, " this is wrong. Either we are monotheists or polytheists."
I've seen the difference, it was equivalent in all myths, that gods who have fought each other and have had children, this in contrast to the statement in Surah al muminun.
But what is with India , they didn't have Brahman as 'the Top God' ? And what about Christians or Muslims who pray to saints, not as God but as helpers -this is not shirk?
Sorry, so many question - i'm a little bit confused. Can you help ?
Thank you very much. peaceThe only Quranic evidence I have seen presented by those who tell us that pagans believed God is the sole creator and sustainer are these
(We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah) 393. So Allah says
(Say "Whose is the earth and whosoever is therein'' meaning, "Who is the Owner Who has created it and whatever is in it of animals, plants, fruits and all other kinds of creation''
("If you know!'' They will say "It is Allah's!'' means, they will admit that this belongs to Allah Alone with no partner or associate. If that is the case,
(Say "Will you not then remember'' that none should be worshipped except the Creator and Provider.
(Say "Who is Lord of the seven heavens, and Lord of the Great Throne'' means, "Who is the Creator of the higher realm with its planets, lights and angels who submit to Him in all regions and in all directions Who is the Lord of the Great Throne, which is the highest of all created things'' Allah says here
(and Lord of the Great Throne), meaning the Mighty Throne. At the end of the Surah, Allah says
(the Lord of the Supreme Throne!) 23116, meaning splendid and magnificent. The Throne combines the features of height and vastness with splendor and magnificence. This is why it was said that it is made of red rubies. Ibn Mas`ud said, "There is no night or day with your Lord, and the light of the Throne is from the Light of His Face.''
(They will say "Allah.'' Say "Will you not then have Taqwa'' meaning, since you admit that He is the Lord of the heavens and the Lord of the Mighty Throne, will you not fear His punishment for worshipping others besides Him and associating others with Him
(Say "In Whose Hand is the sovereignty of everything'' i.e., sovereignty is in His Hands.
(There is not a moving creature but He has grasp of its forelock) 1156. meaning, He has control over it. The Messenger of Allah used to say,
? ?
(By the One in Whose hand is my soul.) When he swore an oath, he would say,
? ?
(By the One Who turns over (controls) the hearts.) He, may He be glorified, is the Creator, the Sovereign, the Controller,
(And He protects (all), while against Whom there is no protector, if you know) Among the Arabs, if a leader announced his protection to a person, no one could go against him in that, yet no one could offer protection against that leader. Allah says
(And He protects (all), while against Whom there is no protector, ) meaning, He is the greatest Master, and there is none greater than Him. His is the power to create and to command, and none can overturn or oppose His ruling. What He wills happens, and what He does not, will not happen. Allah says
(He cannot be questioned about what He does, while they will be questioned.) 2123 He cannot be asked about what He does because of His greatness, Pride, overwhelming power, wisdom and justice, but all of His creation will be asked about what they did, as Allah says
(So, by your Lord, We shall certainly call all of them to account. For all that they used to do.) 1592-93
(They will say "(All that belongs) to Allah.'' means, they will admit that the Almighty Master Who protects all while against Him there is no protector is Allah Alone, with no partner or associate.
(Say "How then are you deceived and turn away from the truth'' means, how can your minds accept the idea of worshipping others besides Him when you recognize and acknowledge that Then Allah says
(Nay, but We have brought them the truth,) which is the declaration that there is no god worthy of worship besides Allah, and the establishment of clear, definitive and sound proof to that effect,
(and verily, they are liars.) means, in their worship of others alongside Allah when they have no evidence for doing so, as Allah says at the end of this Surah
(And whoever invokes, besides Allah, any other god, of whom he has no proof; then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely, the disbelievers will not be successful.) 23117 The idolators have no evidence for what they are doing, which has led them into lies and misguidance. Rather they are following their forefathers and predecessors who were confused and ignorant, as Allah describes them
("We found our fathers following a certain way and religion, and we will indeed follow their footsteps.'' 4323
Now to understand what these verses are saying just watch this video by a hindu claiming that polytheism is actually monotheism and even better. This is called defensive argument and justifying the unjustifiable. The Quran says that this will not be accepted as a defense and a justification.
Now watch this and you will see what these verses are saying
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YujY2pepGmo
He is claiming that hindusim is actually monoteism with a polytheistic naming and imagining of God. Just like the pagans of Mecca claimed that their paganism is a monotheistic religion but with a polytheistic intercessions. They would not abandon their gods for nobody.
Meanwhile this guy is stating exactly what the verses are saying.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEVRH...eature=related
He says
"Hindus all believe in one Supreme God who created the universe. He is all-pervasive. He created many Gods, highly advanced spiritual beings, to be His helpers."
Just like the verses are telling us.
In the end they would not change because that is how they were raised. Its all defensive argument and trying to distort what paganism and shirk is by trying to justify it. Even a casual glance at the pagans theology we know that no sane mind can accept it. So humans need a defense mechanism. The Quran will not accept that argument and said the real reason is they do not want to abandon what thier ancestors did even if their ancestor were silly.
To understand the verses of the Quran you need to understand who its refering to. By debating pagans as the prophet did you will understand what these verses are saying. That video says it all.
Now look at their actual aqeeda
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yWwFWpbRo
So I was talking about those specific verses the Quran often cited claiming that the pagans acknowledged God is one but were still condemned. Those verses are talking about those who tried to justify shirk by playing with words like yes there is only one God but He has many names or He has helpers to make it easier for us or there are intercessors because humans are diverse and everyone has his own way etc. These arguments were made to justify shirk. The Quran says their argument has no bearing and they will be condemned.
Like the videos shows us they are playing with words. They knew what they were doing was wrong but did not want to abandon their gods because of ancestorial pride. The pagans of Mecca had different reactions to the prophet's message but i was refering to those specific verses often cited claiming that the pagans believed in God being the sole creator. The verses would not have condemned that argument if it was legit. looking at those videos and seeing those arguments we know what they were trying to do. They were trying to justify shirk. Not deny it.
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Salam
Jafar The understanding of shirk depends very much on how you translated a'budu. The post of al kitab about Abud = / worship has helped me a lot. the polytheists worship different gods but we SERVE Allah. the picture becomes more clear now. Thanks for your input!
Bigmo thank you for your detailed post. The videos are really frightening. Nonsense, the spreading-but it affects the mass, I was also influenced by the key words' a supreme god = Allah. Now I see my error and the complete agreement of their assertions, by Allah's verses.
And how the wahabi help to spreading the false message with this claim from Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah... o
Thank you for your help!
May Allah bless you two!peace ) -
Salam
Jafar The understanding of shirk depends very much on how you translated a'budu. The post of al kitab about Abud = / worship has helped me a lot. the polytheists worship different gods but we SERVE Allah. the picture becomes more clear now. Thanks for your input!
Bigmo thank you for your detailed post. The videos are really frightening. Nonsense, the spreading-but it affects the mass, I was also influenced by the key words' a supreme god = Allah. Now I see my error and the complete agreement of their assertions, by Allah's verses.
And how the wahabi help to spreading the false message with this claim from Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah... o
Thank you for your help!
May Allah bless you two!peace )Yeah its really sad that all these shrines in Mali are being destroyed. I am not a sufi person and do not believe in many of there practices but its wrong to say its shirk.
Mathew 23
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Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
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And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
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Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Notice here Jesus had no problem with shrines and veneration. But as the Koran confirmed that these prophets and saints the Pharisees claim to be honoring they were there murderers and enemies when they were alive. Like the Quran, Jesus saw the Pharisees as the very same crowd as those who killed the prophets. He was vindicated when they also tried to kill him.
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Salam Bigmo,
so your argument is that Sufi shrines should not be destroyed as the sufis are not pagans/polytheists, right? But what about the spinx and other monuments of cultures which you state are pagan/polytheist? You think they should be destroyed?? And if they say they believe in one supreme God, who are you to say they don't? Doesn't the Qur'an warn us about doubting other people's belief and to say "you are not a believer" (494)?
Any why should whole cultures have been let without the guidance that there is just one God? -
Salam Bigmo,
so your argument is that Sufi shrines should not be destroyed as the sufis are not pagans/polytheists, right? But what about the spinx and other monuments of cultures which you state are pagan/polytheist? You think they should be destroyed?? And if they say they believe in one supreme God, who are you to say they don't? Doesn't the Qur'an warn us about doubting other people's belief and to say "you are not a believer" (494)?
Any why should whole cultures have been let without the guidance that there is just one God?Now to understand what these verses are saying just watch this video by a hindu claiming that polytheism is actually monotheism and even better. This is called defensive argument and justifying the unjustifiable. The Quran says that this will not be accepted as a defense and a justification.
Now watch this and you will see what these verses are saying
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YujY2pepGmo
He is claiming that hindusim is actually monoteism with a polytheistic naming and imagining of God. Just like the pagans of Mecca claimed that their paganism is a monotheistic religion but with a polytheistic intercessions. They would not abandon their gods for nobody.
Meanwhile this guy is stating exactly what the verses are saying.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEVRH...eature=related
He says
"Hindus all believe in one Supreme God who created the universe. He is all-pervasive. He created many Gods, highly advanced spiritual beings, to be His helpers."
Just like the verses are telling us.
In the end they would not change because that is how they were raised. Its all defensive argument and trying to distort what paganism and shirk is by trying to justify it. Even a casual glance at the pagans theology we know that no sane mind can accept it. So humans need a defense mechanism. The Quran will not accept that argument and said the real reason is they do not want to abandon what thier ancestors did even if their ancestor were silly.
To understand the verses of the Quran you need to understand who its refering to. By debating pagans as the prophet did you will understand what these verses are saying. That video says it all.
Now look at their actual aqeeda
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yWwFWpbRo
So I was talking about those specific verses the Quran often cited claiming that the pagans acknowledged God is one but were still condemned. Those verses are talking about those who tried to justify shirk by playing with words like yes there is only one God but He has many names or He has helpers to make it easier for us or there are intercessors because humans are diverse and everyone has his own way etc. These arguments were made to justify shirk. The Quran says their argument has no bearing and they will be condemned.
Like the videos shows us they are playing with words. They knew what they were doing was wrong but did not want to abandon their gods because of ancestorial pride. The pagans of Mecca had different reactions to the prophet's message but i was refering to those specific verses often cited claiming that the pagans believed in God being the sole creator. The verses would not have condemned that argument if it was legit. looking at those videos and seeing those arguments we know what they were trying to do. They were trying to justify shirk. Not deny it.
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Peace Bigmo,
Thanks for the research about it. I will read it later. Just posting, so I don't lose this thread lol!