Shirk creation stories and how they share a common theology
-
Zoroastrian (Persian paganism) Creation Story
This story is taken from the Book of Creation, the Bundahishn, which dates from the 6th century AD.
In the beginning, there was nothing in the world except Ahura Mazda, the Wise Lord, who lived in the Endless Light. And the Evil Spirit, Ahriman, who lived in the Absolute Darkness. Between them lay only emptiness.
One day, Ahura Mazda decided to make different creations. First He shaped the sky made of metal, shinning and bright. Second, He made the pure water. Third, the Wise Lord created the Earth, flat and round with no mountains and valleys. Fourth, He made the plants, moist and sweet with no bark or thorn. Fifth, he created the animals, big and small. Then he created the First Man, Gayomard, bright, tall, and handsome. And lastly, he created Fire and distributed it within the whole creation. The Wise Lord ordered Fire to serve the mankind in preparing food and overcoming cold.
The Evil Spirit peeked out of his dark world to see the Wise Lord?s beautiful creations. The Wise Lord called him and said, "Evil Spirit! Aid my creatures and give them praise so that you will be immortal."
The Evil Spirit snarled, "Why should I aid your creatures? Why should I praise them? I am more powerful! I will destroy you and your creatures for ever and ever." Then he crawled back to his dark side to shape demons, witches, and monsters to attack the Endless Light.
6th Century AD?.. When I look at the wikipedia they say it's much later than that..
Around 7th-8th century AD. No wonder it has many similarities with Genesis... as it was compiled in effort to compete with 'the incoming heathen foreign religion' of Christianism and it's syncretic / next generation form named Islamism (The religion not the attitude)..Nonetheless, as any other 'religion'..(Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc..) it was developed in stages.. where generation of priests contribute their own fantasy works in order to keep the 'religion alive', the customer believer happy and the $$$ flowing..
Salam / Peace
-
what is Shrik (paganism) anyways. Its far worse than you think.
Hardline Islamists destroy Muslim religious shrines in Timbuktu
Jul 1, 2012
BAMAKO // Hardline Islamists occupying northern Mali went on the rampage in Timbuktu on Saturday, attacking shrines to Muslim saints and threatening to destroy every religious site in the fabled city.
Armed militants from the fundamentalist Ansar Dine group have already destroyed the ancient tomb of at least one revered Muslim figures on Saturday, just days after UNESCO named the city an endangered world heritage site.
"They have raped Timbuktu today. It is a crime," said a source close to a local imam after the onslaught began early Saturday.
Ansar Dine, one of the Islamist groups which seized control of the vast desert north of Mali in the chaotic aftermath of a March coup in Bamako, said no religious site would be safe in Timbuktu.
"Ansar Dine will today destroy every mausoleum in the city. All of them, without exception," spokesman Sanda Ould Boumama told AFP through an interpreter from the city.
UNESCO put the World Heritage site, a cradle of Islamic learning known as the "City of 333 Saints", on its endangered list on Thursday because of the continued unrest in the north.
The Ansar Dine spokesman suggested Saturday's action was in retaliation for the UNESCO move.
"God is unique. All of this is haram (or forbidden in Islam). We are all Muslims. UNESCO is what?" he said, declaring that Ansar Dine was acting "in the name of God."
Witnesses in Timbuktu said the gangs had destroyed the mausoleum of a saint whose 15th century tomb was already desecrated in May by members of Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Magreb, one of the groups in control in the north.
"As I am speaking to you, Islamists from Ansar Dine have destroyed the mausoleum of saint Sidi Mahmoud," one witness told AFP.
"They are now in the process of destroying the mausoleum (of Sidi Moctar)," said a local journalist. "They have said they will destroy everything."
Islamic and tribal Tuareg groups took advantage of the March 22 military coup in Bamako to push government forces out of northern Mali, an area the size of France and Belgium, including the cities of Gao, Kidal and Timbuktu.
UNESCO, the world's main watchdog over the safety of some of history's greatest treasures and most threatened cultural exhibits, designated Timbuktu a heritage site in 1988.
Beyond its historic mosques, Timbuktu has 16 cemeteries and mausolea, according to the UNESCO website.
It is also home to nearly 100,000 ancient manuscripts, some dating back to the 12th century, preserved in family homes and private libraries under the care of religious scholars.
http//www.thenational.ae/news/world/africa/hardline-islamists-destroy-muslim-religious-shrines-in-timbuktu
All of this senseless violence and destruction of history is because of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab claim that the pagans of Mecca used to believe that God is the sole sustainer and creator but were mushriks because they practiced tawassul. Ibn Abdul Wahhab claimed this
The Arab Pagans believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah brickwall
The belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah was never denied by any of the previous nations, except few who denied the existence of Allah, like Fir?awn (Pharaoh), the atheists and communists of this age. The Arab Pagans amongst whom the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) was sent believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah. They believed in Allah to the extent that they declared Allah as the Supreme Lord. They acknowledged Him as the Creator of the Universe and considered Him to be the Sovereign and the Provider of sustenance, hypno as is clear from the verses of Soorah al-Muminoon, Allah says ?Say (to the disbelievers) ?Whose is the earth and whosoever is therein? If you know!? They will say ?It is Allah? ? Say ?Who is the Lord of the seven Heavens and the Lord of the Great Throne?? They will say ?Allah? ? Say ?In whose Hands is the sovereignty of everything? And He protects all, while against whom there is no protector, if you know?? They will say ?(All this belongs) to Allah.?
However, the belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah did not make them Muslims, because they lacked Tawheed al-Uloohiyyah (Oneness of Allah?s Worship). Even though, the Arab Pagans believed that Allah was their Lord, they did not direct all forms of worship to Him alone. They believed that Angles and pious people had special status with Allah, and thus could intercede with Allah for them. They would say ?We only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allah.? Calling upon Allah for one?s needs is a great act of worship, and if it is directed towards other than Allah, it leads to Shirk in the worship. Allah revealed ?They worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say ?These are only our intercessors with Allah.?
Thus, Allah declared their act of seeking intercession with Allah as Shirk and termed them as Kafirun and Mushrikeen. He ordered His Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) to proclaim, ?I worship not that, which you worship, nor will you worship that which I worship, and I shall not worship that you are worshiping, nor will you worship that which I worship.? These verses of the Noble Qur?aan establish the importance of the Tawheed of worship along with the Tawheed of Lordship.
Essential Points From the above, we understand that the Arab Pagans, despite their ignorance and arrogance, completely understood the meaning of Ibaadah (worship). They believed that intercession is a form of worship, and did not deny that calling upon pious people amounted to worshiping them. They would call their idols, ?Aaliha?(pl. of Ilah lit. meaning, One, who is worshiped). This is in sharp contrast of the belief of the grave-worshipers of today, who make the engraved as intercessors with Allah, and yet do not consider it to be Shirk!!
http//www.ahya.org/tjonline/eng/02/1tawheed.html
This is what ignorance can do. Abdul Wahhab did not do any research on paganism or gave us any facts from pagan traditions but simply interpreted some verses of the Quran. He talked about Tawheed but knew nothing about it. We are told in the Quran to research and seek knowledge. But no such research was done by him. This is now a huge fitna. He was wrong. No pagan tradition in the history of mankind believed in God being the sole creator and sustainer. They would not be pagans by definition.
-
Salam Bigmo
However, the belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah did not make them Muslims, because they lacked Tawheed al-Uloohiyyah (Oneness of Allah?s Worship). Even though, the Arab Pagans believed that Allah was their Lord, they did not direct all forms of worship to Him alone. They believed that Angles and pious people had special status with Allah, and thus could intercede with Allah for them. They would say ?We only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allah.? Calling upon Allah for one?s needs is a great act of worship, and if it is directed towards other than Allah, it leads to Shirk in the worship. Allah revealed ?They worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say ?These are only our intercessors with Allah.?
So if I understand this correctly, sorry am a bit slow, he interpreted that the Meccans knew Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah, but in fact they worship Gods and not God. in fact they didn't know Allah? You want say, that there is no shirk in Worship?
From the Qur'an we learn only, that Muhammad has spoken with people who believed in Allah. However, he combined this with the traditions and creeds a new form of Paganism The Polytheism with one high God.( Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah withoutTawheed al-Uloohiyyah) is this correct?
However,you say, " this is wrong. Either we are monotheists or polytheists."
I've seen the difference, it was equivalent in all myths, that gods who have fought each other and have had children, this in contrast to the statement in Surah al muminun.
But what is with India , they didn't have Brahman as 'the Top God' ? And what about Christians or Muslims who pray to saints, not as God but as helpers -this is not shirk?
Sorry, so many question - i'm a little bit confused. Can you help ?
Thank you very much. peace ) -
Shirk got nothing to do with "worshiping > 1 gods".... and/or monotheism...
Shirk is a bad traits which is a combination of lies, deceit, injustice, oppressive, hatred and greed..
Even the Devil is a monotheist...The whole objective of the Quran is NOT to do "Gods consolidation".. from N into 1...
Many people here has also said the same thing.. the true God... is not a narcissistic 'being' who wanted to be worshiped. The true God loves justice, compassion, mercy, honesty more than He loves to be worshiped.
The whole objective of the Quran is to shed light / revelation to the society deeply embedded in darkness, myths, religion and mysticism...
The whole objective of the Quran is to expose the frauds, the corrupts, the priests, the scam artists and their fake dogma who has taken away so many of hard earned money from regular peasantry.
The whole objective of the Quran is to transform the society from the darkness of ignorance into the light of knowledge.The kufr are not the 'disbeliever' and/or polytheists.. the kufr are those frauds, scam artists, mafias who tried everything in their power to stop the truth being spread out, as they've gained $$$, power and influence over the lies being spread out in the society.. The Kufr has forgotten about their commandment with their own creator thus they have 'shirk-ing' from it..
The Kufr (Kaffirin) and those whose Shirk (Mushrikin) CAN be a monotheist too..!
Salam / Peace
-
Salam Bigmo
So if I understand this correctly, sorry am a bit slow, he interpreted that the Meccans knew Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah, but in fact they worship Gods and not God. in fact they didn't know Allah? You want say, that there is no shirk in Worship?
From the Qur'an we learn only, that Muhammad has spoken with people who believed in Allah. However, he combined this with the traditions and creeds a new form of Paganism The Polytheism with one high God.( Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah withoutTawheed al-Uloohiyyah) is this correct?
However,you say, " this is wrong. Either we are monotheists or polytheists."
I've seen the difference, it was equivalent in all myths, that gods who have fought each other and have had children, this in contrast to the statement in Surah al muminun.
But what is with India , they didn't have Brahman as 'the Top God' ? And what about Christians or Muslims who pray to saints, not as God but as helpers -this is not shirk?
Sorry, so many question - i'm a little bit confused. Can you help ?
Thank you very much. peaceThe only Quranic evidence I have seen presented by those who tell us that pagans believed God is the sole creator and sustainer are these
(We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah) 393. So Allah says
(Say "Whose is the earth and whosoever is therein'' meaning, "Who is the Owner Who has created it and whatever is in it of animals, plants, fruits and all other kinds of creation''
("If you know!'' They will say "It is Allah's!'' means, they will admit that this belongs to Allah Alone with no partner or associate. If that is the case,
(Say "Will you not then remember'' that none should be worshipped except the Creator and Provider.
(Say "Who is Lord of the seven heavens, and Lord of the Great Throne'' means, "Who is the Creator of the higher realm with its planets, lights and angels who submit to Him in all regions and in all directions Who is the Lord of the Great Throne, which is the highest of all created things'' Allah says here
(and Lord of the Great Throne), meaning the Mighty Throne. At the end of the Surah, Allah says
(the Lord of the Supreme Throne!) 23116, meaning splendid and magnificent. The Throne combines the features of height and vastness with splendor and magnificence. This is why it was said that it is made of red rubies. Ibn Mas`ud said, "There is no night or day with your Lord, and the light of the Throne is from the Light of His Face.''
(They will say "Allah.'' Say "Will you not then have Taqwa'' meaning, since you admit that He is the Lord of the heavens and the Lord of the Mighty Throne, will you not fear His punishment for worshipping others besides Him and associating others with Him
(Say "In Whose Hand is the sovereignty of everything'' i.e., sovereignty is in His Hands.
(There is not a moving creature but He has grasp of its forelock) 1156. meaning, He has control over it. The Messenger of Allah used to say,
? ?
(By the One in Whose hand is my soul.) When he swore an oath, he would say,
? ?
(By the One Who turns over (controls) the hearts.) He, may He be glorified, is the Creator, the Sovereign, the Controller,
(And He protects (all), while against Whom there is no protector, if you know) Among the Arabs, if a leader announced his protection to a person, no one could go against him in that, yet no one could offer protection against that leader. Allah says
(And He protects (all), while against Whom there is no protector, ) meaning, He is the greatest Master, and there is none greater than Him. His is the power to create and to command, and none can overturn or oppose His ruling. What He wills happens, and what He does not, will not happen. Allah says
(He cannot be questioned about what He does, while they will be questioned.) 2123 He cannot be asked about what He does because of His greatness, Pride, overwhelming power, wisdom and justice, but all of His creation will be asked about what they did, as Allah says
(So, by your Lord, We shall certainly call all of them to account. For all that they used to do.) 1592-93
(They will say "(All that belongs) to Allah.'' means, they will admit that the Almighty Master Who protects all while against Him there is no protector is Allah Alone, with no partner or associate.
(Say "How then are you deceived and turn away from the truth'' means, how can your minds accept the idea of worshipping others besides Him when you recognize and acknowledge that Then Allah says
(Nay, but We have brought them the truth,) which is the declaration that there is no god worthy of worship besides Allah, and the establishment of clear, definitive and sound proof to that effect,
(and verily, they are liars.) means, in their worship of others alongside Allah when they have no evidence for doing so, as Allah says at the end of this Surah
(And whoever invokes, besides Allah, any other god, of whom he has no proof; then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely, the disbelievers will not be successful.) 23117 The idolators have no evidence for what they are doing, which has led them into lies and misguidance. Rather they are following their forefathers and predecessors who were confused and ignorant, as Allah describes them
("We found our fathers following a certain way and religion, and we will indeed follow their footsteps.'' 4323
Now to understand what these verses are saying just watch this video by a hindu claiming that polytheism is actually monotheism and even better. This is called defensive argument and justifying the unjustifiable. The Quran says that this will not be accepted as a defense and a justification.
Now watch this and you will see what these verses are saying
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YujY2pepGmo
He is claiming that hindusim is actually monoteism with a polytheistic naming and imagining of God. Just like the pagans of Mecca claimed that their paganism is a monotheistic religion but with a polytheistic intercessions. They would not abandon their gods for nobody.
Meanwhile this guy is stating exactly what the verses are saying.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEVRH...eature=related
He says
"Hindus all believe in one Supreme God who created the universe. He is all-pervasive. He created many Gods, highly advanced spiritual beings, to be His helpers."
Just like the verses are telling us.
In the end they would not change because that is how they were raised. Its all defensive argument and trying to distort what paganism and shirk is by trying to justify it. Even a casual glance at the pagans theology we know that no sane mind can accept it. So humans need a defense mechanism. The Quran will not accept that argument and said the real reason is they do not want to abandon what thier ancestors did even if their ancestor were silly.
To understand the verses of the Quran you need to understand who its refering to. By debating pagans as the prophet did you will understand what these verses are saying. That video says it all.
Now look at their actual aqeeda
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yWwFWpbRo
So I was talking about those specific verses the Quran often cited claiming that the pagans acknowledged God is one but were still condemned. Those verses are talking about those who tried to justify shirk by playing with words like yes there is only one God but He has many names or He has helpers to make it easier for us or there are intercessors because humans are diverse and everyone has his own way etc. These arguments were made to justify shirk. The Quran says their argument has no bearing and they will be condemned.
Like the videos shows us they are playing with words. They knew what they were doing was wrong but did not want to abandon their gods because of ancestorial pride. The pagans of Mecca had different reactions to the prophet's message but i was refering to those specific verses often cited claiming that the pagans believed in God being the sole creator. The verses would not have condemned that argument if it was legit. looking at those videos and seeing those arguments we know what they were trying to do. They were trying to justify shirk. Not deny it.
-
Salam
Jafar The understanding of shirk depends very much on how you translated a'budu. The post of al kitab about Abud = / worship has helped me a lot. the polytheists worship different gods but we SERVE Allah. the picture becomes more clear now. Thanks for your input!
Bigmo thank you for your detailed post. The videos are really frightening. Nonsense, the spreading-but it affects the mass, I was also influenced by the key words' a supreme god = Allah. Now I see my error and the complete agreement of their assertions, by Allah's verses.
And how the wahabi help to spreading the false message with this claim from Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah... o
Thank you for your help!
May Allah bless you two!peace ) -
Salam
Jafar The understanding of shirk depends very much on how you translated a'budu. The post of al kitab about Abud = / worship has helped me a lot. the polytheists worship different gods but we SERVE Allah. the picture becomes more clear now. Thanks for your input!
Bigmo thank you for your detailed post. The videos are really frightening. Nonsense, the spreading-but it affects the mass, I was also influenced by the key words' a supreme god = Allah. Now I see my error and the complete agreement of their assertions, by Allah's verses.
And how the wahabi help to spreading the false message with this claim from Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah... o
Thank you for your help!
May Allah bless you two!peace )Yeah its really sad that all these shrines in Mali are being destroyed. I am not a sufi person and do not believe in many of there practices but its wrong to say its shirk.
Mathew 23
-
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
-
And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
-
Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Notice here Jesus had no problem with shrines and veneration. But as the Koran confirmed that these prophets and saints the Pharisees claim to be honoring they were there murderers and enemies when they were alive. Like the Quran, Jesus saw the Pharisees as the very same crowd as those who killed the prophets. He was vindicated when they also tried to kill him.
-
-
Salam Bigmo,
so your argument is that Sufi shrines should not be destroyed as the sufis are not pagans/polytheists, right? But what about the spinx and other monuments of cultures which you state are pagan/polytheist? You think they should be destroyed?? And if they say they believe in one supreme God, who are you to say they don't? Doesn't the Qur'an warn us about doubting other people's belief and to say "you are not a believer" (494)?
Any why should whole cultures have been let without the guidance that there is just one God? -
Salam Bigmo,
so your argument is that Sufi shrines should not be destroyed as the sufis are not pagans/polytheists, right? But what about the spinx and other monuments of cultures which you state are pagan/polytheist? You think they should be destroyed?? And if they say they believe in one supreme God, who are you to say they don't? Doesn't the Qur'an warn us about doubting other people's belief and to say "you are not a believer" (494)?
Any why should whole cultures have been let without the guidance that there is just one God?Now to understand what these verses are saying just watch this video by a hindu claiming that polytheism is actually monotheism and even better. This is called defensive argument and justifying the unjustifiable. The Quran says that this will not be accepted as a defense and a justification.
Now watch this and you will see what these verses are saying
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YujY2pepGmo
He is claiming that hindusim is actually monoteism with a polytheistic naming and imagining of God. Just like the pagans of Mecca claimed that their paganism is a monotheistic religion but with a polytheistic intercessions. They would not abandon their gods for nobody.
Meanwhile this guy is stating exactly what the verses are saying.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEVRH...eature=related
He says
"Hindus all believe in one Supreme God who created the universe. He is all-pervasive. He created many Gods, highly advanced spiritual beings, to be His helpers."
Just like the verses are telling us.
In the end they would not change because that is how they were raised. Its all defensive argument and trying to distort what paganism and shirk is by trying to justify it. Even a casual glance at the pagans theology we know that no sane mind can accept it. So humans need a defense mechanism. The Quran will not accept that argument and said the real reason is they do not want to abandon what thier ancestors did even if their ancestor were silly.
To understand the verses of the Quran you need to understand who its refering to. By debating pagans as the prophet did you will understand what these verses are saying. That video says it all.
Now look at their actual aqeeda
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yWwFWpbRo
So I was talking about those specific verses the Quran often cited claiming that the pagans acknowledged God is one but were still condemned. Those verses are talking about those who tried to justify shirk by playing with words like yes there is only one God but He has many names or He has helpers to make it easier for us or there are intercessors because humans are diverse and everyone has his own way etc. These arguments were made to justify shirk. The Quran says their argument has no bearing and they will be condemned.
Like the videos shows us they are playing with words. They knew what they were doing was wrong but did not want to abandon their gods because of ancestorial pride. The pagans of Mecca had different reactions to the prophet's message but i was refering to those specific verses often cited claiming that the pagans believed in God being the sole creator. The verses would not have condemned that argument if it was legit. looking at those videos and seeing those arguments we know what they were trying to do. They were trying to justify shirk. Not deny it.
-
Peace Bigmo,
Thanks for the research about it. I will read it later. Just posting, so I don't lose this thread lol!